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clusen
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany8702 Posts
February 08 2012 15:46 GMT
#621
this is where no creep between your bases really hurts
Dexington
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada7276 Posts
February 08 2012 15:47 GMT
#622
Supernova loves him some Banshees.
"Man you guys are missing out waving your stats dicks about instead of watching this pvp" - bbm
Bommes
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany1226 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 15:51:07
February 08 2012 15:47 GMT
#623
On February 09 2012 00:46 gh0un wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 00:42 Bommes wrote:
On February 09 2012 00:36 gh0un wrote:
On February 09 2012 00:33 mvtaylor wrote:
On February 09 2012 00:30 gh0un wrote:
On February 09 2012 00:25 MrCon wrote:
On February 09 2012 00:23 WiljushkA wrote:
this is what i hate about tvz, terran can make a dozen micro mistakes, lose 5 drops without doing any damage, and still easily be in the game, but one missclick from zerg is an autoloss (see killers mutalisk loss).

Losing mutalisks on a misclick is the equivalent of getting caught unsieged and losing all your tanks.


Not really. Losing all tanks means you lost your support unit, but the backbone of the army still stands, and thats the marine.
Even if terran loses all marines and tanks, its not easy to kill a terran off in his simcity base, except if you have an overwhelming number of mutalisks.
As long as terran kept up in economy, a lost marine tank army is just that, a lost army.

If terran is pushing you and you lose all your mutas with a missclick its over, he can finish zerg off easily.


Are you trying to say mutalisks are not a zerg support unit and should be classed as the backbone of the army in a similar way to marines?

I mean... i dunno man...

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Mutalisk


I didnt say that, but the support unit for zerg has a different role than tanks for terrans.
Mutalisks are not only about controlling space, they are also for harassing purposes in order to disallow terrans to freely move out of their bases leaving them undefended.

Tanks are only about controlling space, while Mutalisks are about controlling space and harassing.


You know that without tanks its almost impossible to harass against Zerg because you can't move out of your base and all your drops will get cleaned off easily?


Apparently terran is supposed to be able to harass zerg after losing their whole army, is that what you are trying to say?


I wasnt talking about the whole army, I was talking about losing the tanks, just as you are talking about losing the mutalisks.
Just stop the discussion please, it gets silly.

edit to your edit:
Losing mutalisks doesnt equal losing the game either, so whats your point.
Losing tanks can LEAD to losing the game if you are right at the zergs base in a crucial push and the zerglings/banelings just demolish the rest of your army.
Losing tanks is very similar to losing mutalisks, its very situational on how it affects the outcome of the game.
clusen
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany8702 Posts
February 08 2012 15:48 GMT
#624
DF is so dead
Fragile51
Profile Joined October 2011
Netherlands15767 Posts
February 08 2012 15:48 GMT
#625
Oof, pretty bad stomping right there.
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
February 08 2012 15:48 GMT
#626
awww guess dark force was a not that position ... and supernova was like yay that position one base tech push !
jojo311
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia903 Posts
February 08 2012 15:48 GMT
#627
Great great play Supernova!!
Dexington
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada7276 Posts
February 08 2012 15:49 GMT
#628
Looks like Killer's ZvT is way above DF's
"Man you guys are missing out waving your stats dicks about instead of watching this pvp" - bbm
Grovbolle
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark3811 Posts
February 08 2012 15:49 GMT
#629
Koreans > foreigners. That was pretty onesided
Lies, damned lies and statistics: http://aligulac.com
JayJay_90
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany1632 Posts
February 08 2012 15:50 GMT
#630
On February 09 2012 00:49 Grovbolle wrote:
Koreans > foreigners.

Hello Captain Obvious
Rhedsa
Profile Joined July 2011
Costa Rica594 Posts
February 08 2012 15:50 GMT
#631
TalDarim in this push-position is really akward in ZvT, although Darkforce wasn't really dealing that well with this aggression before..
qwaykee
Profile Joined February 2010
Norway266 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 15:50:57
February 08 2012 15:50 GMT
#632
On February 09 2012 00:43 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 00:41 Seiniyta wrote:
And now everyone is going to be angry because Mr. Bitter didn't ask him about the interface :p


Yeah I think that's by far the biggest problem with the game

Anyway my impression from robert simpson has been "good voice and pretty good casting but doesn't know much", let's see how it really is


Yeaaaaah, how would he dare to be a BAD caster. GRRRR we'll wait with our pitchforks ready to jump!

Imo: Good voice = ten times more enjoyable than catz+jp+++. A good voice is everything, especially to newcomers and casuals.
ceaRshaf
Profile Joined August 2009
Romania4926 Posts
February 08 2012 15:50 GMT
#633
I hate it when a korean runs the floor with foreigners so easy. It just makes me scream to all those threads "are koreans better than foreigners?".
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
February 08 2012 15:50 GMT
#634
On February 09 2012 00:49 Grovbolle wrote:
Koreans > foreigners. That was pretty onesided

Completely true.
But do we really need to declare that after every random bo win?
Off-season = best season
cyclone25
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Romania3344 Posts
February 08 2012 15:51 GMT
#635
Props to Mr. Bitter for bringing the gold base issue to a Blizzard's employee on stream.
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
February 08 2012 15:51 GMT
#636
On February 09 2012 00:49 Grovbolle wrote:
Koreans > foreigners. That was pretty onesided


while this is obviously true - juding that from one game is pretty impressive to me, since that sounds like you didnt know that before
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
zocktol
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany1928 Posts
February 08 2012 15:52 GMT
#637
Not Antiga T_T

Darkforce seems really out of shape and now this map that seems relatively hard in ZvT.
Makes me sad
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
February 08 2012 15:52 GMT
#638
On February 09 2012 00:46 gh0un wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 00:42 Bommes wrote:
On February 09 2012 00:36 gh0un wrote:
On February 09 2012 00:33 mvtaylor wrote:
On February 09 2012 00:30 gh0un wrote:
On February 09 2012 00:25 MrCon wrote:
On February 09 2012 00:23 WiljushkA wrote:
this is what i hate about tvz, terran can make a dozen micro mistakes, lose 5 drops without doing any damage, and still easily be in the game, but one missclick from zerg is an autoloss (see killers mutalisk loss).

Losing mutalisks on a misclick is the equivalent of getting caught unsieged and losing all your tanks.


Not really. Losing all tanks means you lost your support unit, but the backbone of the army still stands, and thats the marine.
Even if terran loses all marines and tanks, its not easy to kill a terran off in his simcity base, except if you have an overwhelming number of mutalisks.
As long as terran kept up in economy, a lost marine tank army is just that, a lost army.

If terran is pushing you and you lose all your mutas with a missclick its over, he can finish zerg off easily.


Are you trying to say mutalisks are not a zerg support unit and should be classed as the backbone of the army in a similar way to marines?

I mean... i dunno man...

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Mutalisk


I didnt say that, but the support unit for zerg has a different role than tanks for terrans.
Mutalisks are not only about controlling space, they are also for harassing purposes in order to disallow terrans to freely move out of their bases leaving them undefended.

Tanks are only about controlling space, while Mutalisks are about controlling space and harassing.


You know that without tanks its almost impossible to harass against Zerg because you can't move out of your base and all your drops will get cleaned off easily?


Apparently terran is supposed to be able to harass zerg after losing their whole army, is that what you are trying to say?
Because you know exactly that that wasnt the point, point was that terran doesnt outright loses if he loses his tanks in the middle of the map, they just lose the ability to actively do something against zerg.
Playing defensively from there works quite well, just watch some Kas games.

If a zerg loses his mutalisks in the middle of the map while terran moves out, there is no playing defensive if he is knocking at your door.

Your statement that terran cant harass at all after losing tanks, basically confirms that you yourself believe that losing tanks doesnt equal losing the game.
It only equals losing the ability to harass, it just came out of your mouth.

You're arguing for the sake of arguing now, we're completely out of the subject of the main point which was that missclicking or getting caught unsieged and losing all your tanks was as bad as doing the same with mutas.
Without tanks, I don't think a good simcity is enough to save you from a mega lingbling wave.
You just want to win the argument, but if you don't realize that both are critical mistakes then there's nothing to argue, your bias is too strong and this will go nowhere (this is already nowhere in fact and I shouldn't even post this).
cyclone25
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Romania3344 Posts
February 08 2012 15:52 GMT
#639
On February 09 2012 00:49 Grovbolle wrote:
Koreans > foreigners. That was pretty onesided


Since when DarkForce = foreigners?

dKiller player really well, don't put them in the same boat.
gh0un
Profile Joined March 2011
601 Posts
February 08 2012 15:53 GMT
#640
On February 09 2012 00:47 Bommes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 00:46 gh0un wrote:
On February 09 2012 00:42 Bommes wrote:
On February 09 2012 00:36 gh0un wrote:
On February 09 2012 00:33 mvtaylor wrote:
On February 09 2012 00:30 gh0un wrote:
On February 09 2012 00:25 MrCon wrote:
On February 09 2012 00:23 WiljushkA wrote:
this is what i hate about tvz, terran can make a dozen micro mistakes, lose 5 drops without doing any damage, and still easily be in the game, but one missclick from zerg is an autoloss (see killers mutalisk loss).

Losing mutalisks on a misclick is the equivalent of getting caught unsieged and losing all your tanks.


Not really. Losing all tanks means you lost your support unit, but the backbone of the army still stands, and thats the marine.
Even if terran loses all marines and tanks, its not easy to kill a terran off in his simcity base, except if you have an overwhelming number of mutalisks.
As long as terran kept up in economy, a lost marine tank army is just that, a lost army.

If terran is pushing you and you lose all your mutas with a missclick its over, he can finish zerg off easily.


Are you trying to say mutalisks are not a zerg support unit and should be classed as the backbone of the army in a similar way to marines?

I mean... i dunno man...

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Mutalisk


I didnt say that, but the support unit for zerg has a different role than tanks for terrans.
Mutalisks are not only about controlling space, they are also for harassing purposes in order to disallow terrans to freely move out of their bases leaving them undefended.

Tanks are only about controlling space, while Mutalisks are about controlling space and harassing.


You know that without tanks its almost impossible to harass against Zerg because you can't move out of your base and all your drops will get cleaned off easily?


Apparently terran is supposed to be able to harass zerg after losing their whole army, is that what you are trying to say?


I wasnt talking about the whole army, I was talking about losing the tanks, just as you are talking about losing the mutalisks.
Just stop the discussion please, it gets silly.

edit to your edit:
Losing mutalisks doesnt equal losing the game either, so whats your point.
Losing tanks can LEAD to losing the game if you are right at the zergs base in a crucial push and the zerglings/banelings just demolish the rest of your army.
Losing tanks is very similar to losing mutalisks, its very situational on how it affects the outcome of the game.


You subconciously agreed with me, so i dont see why you are beating a dead horse now, as far as i am concerned the discussion is over.
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