The time has come for our sixth IGN Pro League Fight Club! This is a weekly king of the hill showmatch series. Basically, there will be a 1 vs. 1 best of 9 showmatch each and every week, where the winner will earn a $500 prize and a $100 bounty on their head. For example, if a player wins three weeks in a row they will have earned $1,500 and a $300 bounty. If a NEW challenger defeats him, they will earn $500 for the showmatch, take the $300 bounty home, and have a new $100 bounty placed on their head for each week that they win. (Similar to IPL Team Arena, but without the teams!)
When: January 14th 01:00 GMT (+00:00) (we will also have a European re-broadcast as usual at January 15th 17:30 GMT (+00:00))
The competitors of IPL Fight Club 6 are two titans of their respective races. SlayerS`GanZi has already taken out Sheth and Kas in some exciting series, but his first Protoss opponent awaits him this weekend. mouz.MaNa has been heralded as one of the best players in all of Europe, with some people betting huge that he will win his first major tournament in 2012. If he manages to stop GanZi this week, I'd be inclined to believe them!
GanZi < Antiga Shipyard > MaNa GanZi < Shattered Temple > MaNa GanZi < Shakuras Plateau > MaNa GanZi < Tal'Darim Altar > MaNa GanZi < Terminus > MaNa GanZi < Daybreak > MaNa GanZi < Calm Before the Storm > MaNa GanZi < Sanshorn Mist AE > MaNa GanZi < Atlantis Spaceship > MaNa Congratulations to mouz.MaNa winning 5-4 and claiming $500 as well as a $200 bounty!
Map List
Terminus SE Darkness Falls Sanshorn Mist Atlantis Spaceship Shakuras Plateau Calm Before the Storm Shattered Temple Antiga Shipyard (Cross Only) Daybreak Tal’Darim Altar
All the maps can be found on NA, EU, or KR by searching for IPLMap!
The first map will be on a set rotation, and then it is loser's pick.
Casters
This week's games will be commentated by CatsPajamas, HDStarCraft, PainUser, Doa, and/or AskJoshy!
Stay up to date with IPL 4 Qualifiers, IPL TV, IPL Fight Club, and IPL Team Arena Challenge by checking our Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and Twitch.TV!
Hard to say really. Ganzi's play in the IPL Fight Club has been below expectations, especially compared to his GSL performance. Perhaps lag and fatigue will play the deciding factor. Nevertheless, I would still give the advantage to Ganzi to pull out the win. Should not be one-sided though.
On January 12 2012 06:17 Lavi wrote: lag + mana pvt is good + ganzi pvt is bad = mana win
I don't think you're taking into account the players that each of them usually play against (foreigners vs. Koreans), although if lag is an issue, that could be important.
According to TLPD, Mana's PvT is 57% internationally (http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/1214_MaNa).
According to TLPD, Ganzi's TvP in Korea is 4-7 (36%), but that's quite a small sample size and on an international level it's 9-6 (60%). Not saying that's a much larger sample size, but clearly he's not terrible in the match-up (especially against non-Koreans).
If he was against MC, I'd vote for MC. He's against Mana. Ganzi has the advantage (certainly without lag).
Seems IPL really want a foreigner to win so they chose to best PvTer outside of Korea versus Ganzi in his worst matchup. Mana can probably win this through a mix of lag and him playing his best matchup and Ganzi's worst.
This is going to be awesome. I've watched a considerable amount of both players (especially Mana), and if Mana shows up and plays well, I think he takes his one. Problem is, he is quite inconsistent.
On January 12 2012 14:13 RPR_Tempest wrote: MaNa has really, really good PvT.
GanZi is fucking shit against Protoss. So is Ryung. So is Clide. So is BoxeR. MMA seems to have improved a bit but he still has a pretty bad record.
SlayerS Terrans don't beat Protoss. MaNa will beat GanZi in fairly one-sided fashion.
It would actually be a tremendous upset for GanZi to win here.
Agree with the bold but you forgot something important. Ganzi is from South Korea, Mana is not. So Ganzi will still probably win.
Tell that to Gatored.
I don't know why people make bad posts like this bringing up the one piece of evidence they have when there's so much evidence to the contrary.
lol. What evidence is there to the contrary? Please tell me.
By the way, I have far more than one piece of evidence.
It's a terrible post because it's such a completely redundant piece of information. What is your point? That Ganzi has lost vs a foreign player? Yeah, no shit he's not able to have a 100% record vs foreigners, what a terrible player Ganzi must be. He's got a 68% overall win rate on TLPD (higher than any non Korean player) but nevermind because he lost to Gatored once in a best of three so Mana has got this no problem, right? Code S for multiples seasons? Yeah, what's that this is Mana we're talking about here he's a PvT god.
As for Mana, well he's a beast he beat Puma once at IEM, didn't you all see what a boss mode PvT he has? He beat Puma online once too, god he's so good PvT.
Nevermind that Mana has lost PvT's in the last six months to Polt, TOP, Bomber, Yoda and Puma because I'm just going to blind fanboy foreign players and bring up any and all examples of the foreigner winning without mentioning at all any of the times he loses, even if they completely outweigh the wins.
Mana might win this, he might not but even with lag he is up against a Code S player who has a legitimate claim to be amongst the 10 best players in the world. Mana would scrape his way into the top 50 at best.
On January 12 2012 14:13 RPR_Tempest wrote: MaNa has really, really good PvT.
GanZi is fucking shit against Protoss. So is Ryung. So is Clide. So is BoxeR. MMA seems to have improved a bit but he still has a pretty bad record.
SlayerS Terrans don't beat Protoss. MaNa will beat GanZi in fairly one-sided fashion.
It would actually be a tremendous upset for GanZi to win here.
Agree with the bold but you forgot something important. Ganzi is from South Korea, Mana is not. So Ganzi will still probably win.
Tell that to Gatored.
I don't know why people make bad posts like this bringing up the one piece of evidence they have when there's so much evidence to the contrary.
lol. What evidence is there to the contrary? Please tell me.
By the way, I have far more than one piece of evidence.
It's a terrible post because it's such a completely redundant piece of information. What is your point? That Ganzi has lost vs a foreign player? Yeah, no shit he's not able to have a 100% record vs foreigners, what a terrible player Ganzi must be. He's got a 68% overall win rate on TLPD (higher than any non Korean player) but nevermind because he lost to Gatored once in a best of three so Mana has got this no problem, right? Code S for multiples seasons? Yeah, what's that this is Mana we're talking about here he's a PvT god.
As for Mana, well he's a beast he beat Puma once at IEM, didn't you all see what a boss mode PvT he has? He beat Puma online once too, god he's so good PvT.
Nevermind that Mana has lost PvT's in the last six months to Polt, TOP, Bomber, Yoda and Puma because I'm just going to blind fanboy foreign players and bring up any and all examples of the foreigner winning without mentioning at all any of the times he loses, even if they completely outweigh the wins.
Mana might win this, he might not but even with lag he is up against a Code S player who has a legitimate claim to be amongst the 10 best players in the world. Mana would scrape his way into the top 50 at best.
YoDa, PuMa, Bomber, Polt and TOP are all a lot better at TvP than GanZi. They don't outweigh his impressive wins at all. Plus I never said GanZi was terrible, he's great TvT and a fucking monster TvZ. Gatored and MaNa both have really good PvT, far better than GanZi's TvP. If you're going to bring up all the players MaNa has lost to PvT, then I can bring up all the players GanZi has lost to TvP. It's a long list. He's beaten HuK, Puzzle and KiWiKaKi, but that's the only time he's beaten anyone who doesn't suck in a TvP. MaNa has beaten equivalent better players than HuK and KiWiKaKi PvT.
By the way, I like how you accuse me of being a foreigner fanboy. Yeah, no. Calling someone a fanboy because you can't sway them with your argument is the worst thing you can do.
On January 12 2012 14:13 RPR_Tempest wrote: MaNa has really, really good PvT.
GanZi is fucking shit against Protoss. So is Ryung. So is Clide. So is BoxeR. MMA seems to have improved a bit but he still has a pretty bad record.
SlayerS Terrans don't beat Protoss. MaNa will beat GanZi in fairly one-sided fashion.
It would actually be a tremendous upset for GanZi to win here.
Agree with the bold but you forgot something important. Ganzi is from South Korea, Mana is not. So Ganzi will still probably win.
Tell that to Gatored.
I don't know why people make bad posts like this bringing up the one piece of evidence they have when there's so much evidence to the contrary.
lol. What evidence is there to the contrary? Please tell me.
By the way, I have far more than one piece of evidence.
It's a terrible post because it's such a completely redundant piece of information. What is your point? That Ganzi has lost vs a foreign player? Yeah, no shit he's not able to have a 100% record vs foreigners, what a terrible player Ganzi must be. He's got a 68% overall win rate on TLPD (higher than any non Korean player) but nevermind because he lost to Gatored once in a best of three so Mana has got this no problem, right? Code S for multiples seasons? Yeah, what's that this is Mana we're talking about here he's a PvT god.
As for Mana, well he's a beast he beat Puma once at IEM, didn't you all see what a boss mode PvT he has? He beat Puma online once too, god he's so good PvT.
Nevermind that Mana has lost PvT's in the last six months to Polt, TOP, Bomber, Yoda and Puma because I'm just going to blind fanboy foreign players and bring up any and all examples of the foreigner winning without mentioning at all any of the times he loses, even if they completely outweigh the wins.
Mana might win this, he might not but even with lag he is up against a Code S player who has a legitimate claim to be amongst the 10 best players in the world. Mana would scrape his way into the top 50 at best.
YoDa, PuMa, Bomber, Polt and TOP are all a lot better at TvP than GanZi. They don't outweigh his impressive wins at all. Plus I never said GanZi was terrible, he's great TvT and a fucking monster TvZ. Gatored and MaNa both have really good PvT, far better than GanZi's TvP. If you're going to bring up all the players MaNa has lost to PvT, then I can bring up all the players GanZi has lost to TvP. It's a long list. He's beaten HuK and KiWiKaKi, but that's the only time he's beaten anyone who doesn't suck in a TvP. MaNa has beaten equivalent better players than HuK and KiWiKaKi PvT.
By the way, I like how you accuse me of being a foreigner fanboy. Yeah, no. Calling someone a fanboy because you can't sway them with your argument is the worst thing you can do.
Don't worry, though. We're all wrong sometimes.
Ganzi has actually barely played PvT at all in any tournaments. In the last four months he's played: Gatored 0-2 L Puzzle 2-0 W Oz 1-2 L Inori 1-0 W MC 0-1 L Puzzle 0-1 L
So yeah he played a total of 11 games of PvT since September, winning 4 and losing 7. Of the seven he lost 3 were to the three best PvT players in the entire world, and he even beat one of the (Puzzle) in a bo3. Then you're got Gatored who's an upset.
MMA and Ryung have legit bad PvT and you have the evidence to see that but Ganzi is being unfairly lumped in with them on the back of playing almost no PvT's at all and when he does mostly to extremely good PvT players.
Calling Mana's PvT better than Ganzi's is frankly laughable and certainly not based on evidence.
When Mana is at the top of his game, I see him as the best foreign Protoss. So far all the series in fight club have been good, but this one has potential to be mind blowing. Or it'll just go down as a another example of a Korean beating some foreign dude.
On January 12 2012 14:13 RPR_Tempest wrote: MaNa has really, really good PvT.
GanZi is fucking shit against Protoss. So is Ryung. So is Clide. So is BoxeR. MMA seems to have improved a bit but he still has a pretty bad record.
SlayerS Terrans don't beat Protoss. MaNa will beat GanZi in fairly one-sided fashion.
It would actually be a tremendous upset for GanZi to win here.
Agree with the bold but you forgot something important. Ganzi is from South Korea, Mana is not. So Ganzi will still probably win.
Tell that to Gatored.
I don't know why people make bad posts like this bringing up the one piece of evidence they have when there's so much evidence to the contrary.
lol. What evidence is there to the contrary? Please tell me.
By the way, I have far more than one piece of evidence.
It's a terrible post because it's such a completely redundant piece of information. What is your point? That Ganzi has lost vs a foreign player? Yeah, no shit he's not able to have a 100% record vs foreigners, what a terrible player Ganzi must be. He's got a 68% overall win rate on TLPD (higher than any non Korean player) but nevermind because he lost to Gatored once in a best of three so Mana has got this no problem, right? Code S for multiples seasons? Yeah, what's that this is Mana we're talking about here he's a PvT god.
As for Mana, well he's a beast he beat Puma once at IEM, didn't you all see what a boss mode PvT he has? He beat Puma online once too, god he's so good PvT.
Nevermind that Mana has lost PvT's in the last six months to Polt, TOP, Bomber, Yoda and Puma because I'm just going to blind fanboy foreign players and bring up any and all examples of the foreigner winning without mentioning at all any of the times he loses, even if they completely outweigh the wins.
Mana might win this, he might not but even with lag he is up against a Code S player who has a legitimate claim to be amongst the 10 best players in the world. Mana would scrape his way into the top 50 at best.
YoDa, PuMa, Bomber, Polt and TOP are all a lot better at TvP than GanZi. They don't outweigh his impressive wins at all. Plus I never said GanZi was terrible, he's great TvT and a fucking monster TvZ. Gatored and MaNa both have really good PvT, far better than GanZi's TvP. If you're going to bring up all the players MaNa has lost to PvT, then I can bring up all the players GanZi has lost to TvP. It's a long list. He's beaten HuK and KiWiKaKi, but that's the only time he's beaten anyone who doesn't suck in a TvP. MaNa has beaten equivalent better players than HuK and KiWiKaKi PvT.
By the way, I like how you accuse me of being a foreigner fanboy. Yeah, no. Calling someone a fanboy because you can't sway them with your argument is the worst thing you can do.
Don't worry, though. We're all wrong sometimes.
Ganzi has actually barely played PvT at all in any tournaments. In the last four months he's played: Gatored 0-2 L Puzzle 2-0 W Oz 1-2 L Inori 1-0 W MC 0-1 L Puzzle 0-1 L
So yeah he played a total of 11 games of PvT since September, winning 4 and losing 7. Of the seven he lost 3 were to the three best PvT players in the entire world, and he even beat one of the (Puzzle) in a bo3. Then you're got Gatored who's an upset.
MMA and Ryung have legit bad PvT and you have the evidence to see that but Ganzi is being unfairly lumped in with them on the back of playing almost no PvT's at all and when he does mostly to extremely good PvT players.
Calling Mana's PvT better than Ganzi's is frankly laughable and certainly not based on evidence.
I forgot he beat Puzzle too. My bad.
And Gatored beating GanZi wasn't an upset. Gatored beat TOP at IEM and I predicted that Gatored would defeat GanZi before it happened.
On January 12 2012 16:31 Nifel wrote: When Mana is at the top of his game, I see him as the best foreign Protoss. So far all the series in fight club have been good, but this one has potential to be mind blowing. Or it'll just go down as a another example of a Korean beating some foreign dude.
Mana's never the best foreign Protoss ever. At the very best he's the best in PvT but even then Huk has many more big wins on his belt than Mana and in PvP and PvZ he's definitely not the best foreign Protoss.
On January 12 2012 14:13 RPR_Tempest wrote: MaNa has really, really good PvT.
GanZi is fucking shit against Protoss. So is Ryung. So is Clide. So is BoxeR. MMA seems to have improved a bit but he still has a pretty bad record.
SlayerS Terrans don't beat Protoss. MaNa will beat GanZi in fairly one-sided fashion.
It would actually be a tremendous upset for GanZi to win here.
Agree with the bold but you forgot something important. Ganzi is from South Korea, Mana is not. So Ganzi will still probably win.
Tell that to Gatored.
I don't know why people make bad posts like this bringing up the one piece of evidence they have when there's so much evidence to the contrary.
lol. What evidence is there to the contrary? Please tell me.
By the way, I have far more than one piece of evidence.
It's a terrible post because it's such a completely redundant piece of information. What is your point? That Ganzi has lost vs a foreign player? Yeah, no shit he's not able to have a 100% record vs foreigners, what a terrible player Ganzi must be. He's got a 68% overall win rate on TLPD (higher than any non Korean player) but nevermind because he lost to Gatored once in a best of three so Mana has got this no problem, right? Code S for multiples seasons? Yeah, what's that this is Mana we're talking about here he's a PvT god.
As for Mana, well he's a beast he beat Puma once at IEM, didn't you all see what a boss mode PvT he has? He beat Puma online once too, god he's so good PvT.
Nevermind that Mana has lost PvT's in the last six months to Polt, TOP, Bomber, Yoda and Puma because I'm just going to blind fanboy foreign players and bring up any and all examples of the foreigner winning without mentioning at all any of the times he loses, even if they completely outweigh the wins.
Mana might win this, he might not but even with lag he is up against a Code S player who has a legitimate claim to be amongst the 10 best players in the world. Mana would scrape his way into the top 50 at best.
YoDa, PuMa, Bomber, Polt and TOP are all a lot better at TvP than GanZi. They don't outweigh his impressive wins at all. Plus I never said GanZi was terrible, he's great TvT and a fucking monster TvZ. Gatored and MaNa both have really good PvT, far better than GanZi's TvP. If you're going to bring up all the players MaNa has lost to PvT, then I can bring up all the players GanZi has lost to TvP. It's a long list. He's beaten HuK and KiWiKaKi, but that's the only time he's beaten anyone who doesn't suck in a TvP. MaNa has beaten equivalent better players than HuK and KiWiKaKi PvT.
By the way, I like how you accuse me of being a foreigner fanboy. Yeah, no. Calling someone a fanboy because you can't sway them with your argument is the worst thing you can do.
Don't worry, though. We're all wrong sometimes.
Ganzi has actually barely played PvT at all in any tournaments. In the last four months he's played: Gatored 0-2 L Puzzle 2-0 W Oz 1-2 L Inori 1-0 W MC 0-1 L Puzzle 0-1 L
So yeah he played a total of 11 games of PvT since September, winning 4 and losing 7. Of the seven he lost 3 were to the three best PvT players in the entire world, and he even beat one of the (Puzzle) in a bo3. Then you're got Gatored who's an upset.
MMA and Ryung have legit bad PvT and you have the evidence to see that but Ganzi is being unfairly lumped in with them on the back of playing almost no PvT's at all and when he does mostly to extremely good PvT players.
Calling Mana's PvT better than Ganzi's is frankly laughable and certainly not based on evidence.
I forgot he beat Puzzle too. My bad.
And Gatored beating GanZi wasn't an upset. Gatored beat TOP at IEM and I predicted that Gatored would defeat GanZi before it happened.
TOP has really, really bad TvP. There not much stats there because again no Protoss in Korea means most Koreans have only played Zerg's and Terran's in the last six months. I watched the TOP vs Mana series and Mana derped pretty hard in Games 2+3 when I expected him to win after game 1, but I guess game 1 was Terminus so him winning that is no surprise.
On January 12 2012 16:31 Nifel wrote: When Mana is at the top of his game, I see him as the best foreign Protoss. So far all the series in fight club have been good, but this one has potential to be mind blowing. Or it'll just go down as a another example of a Korean beating some foreign dude.
Mana's never the best foreign Protoss ever. At the very best he's the best in PvT but even then Huk has many more big wins on his belt than Mana and in PvP and PvZ he's definitely not the best foreign Protoss.
I disagree (on the part that he's not the best obviously, not on that HuK has more "big wins"). Mana has shown much more impressive play than HuK. Imoho. Also, please note that I said "I see him as the best..", not that he was. I might be wrong. I don't care.
Seems GanZi faces his toughest opponent so far, race-wise. However, I am sure that he will specifically train more TvP just for this showmatch, as there is quite a bit of money on the line.
On January 12 2012 14:13 RPR_Tempest wrote: MaNa has really, really good PvT.
GanZi is fucking shit against Protoss. So is Ryung. So is Clide. So is BoxeR. MMA seems to have improved a bit but he still has a pretty bad record.
SlayerS Terrans don't beat Protoss. MaNa will beat GanZi in fairly one-sided fashion.
It would actually be a tremendous upset for GanZi to win here.
Agree with the bold but you forgot something important. Ganzi is from South Korea, Mana is not. So Ganzi will still probably win.
Tell that to Gatored.
I don't know why people make bad posts like this bringing up the one piece of evidence they have when there's so much evidence to the contrary.
lol. What evidence is there to the contrary? Please tell me.
By the way, I have far more than one piece of evidence.
It's a terrible post because it's such a completely redundant piece of information. What is your point? That Ganzi has lost vs a foreign player? Yeah, no shit he's not able to have a 100% record vs foreigners, what a terrible player Ganzi must be. He's got a 68% overall win rate on TLPD (higher than any non Korean player) but nevermind because he lost to Gatored once in a best of three so Mana has got this no problem, right? Code S for multiples seasons? Yeah, what's that this is Mana we're talking about here he's a PvT god.
As for Mana, well he's a beast he beat Puma once at IEM, didn't you all see what a boss mode PvT he has? He beat Puma online once too, god he's so good PvT.
Nevermind that Mana has lost PvT's in the last six months to Polt, TOP, Bomber, Yoda and Puma because I'm just going to blind fanboy foreign players and bring up any and all examples of the foreigner winning without mentioning at all any of the times he loses, even if they completely outweigh the wins.
Mana might win this, he might not but even with lag he is up against a Code S player who has a legitimate claim to be amongst the 10 best players in the world. Mana would scrape his way into the top 50 at best.
YoDa, PuMa, Bomber, Polt and TOP are all a lot better at TvP than GanZi. They don't outweigh his impressive wins at all. Plus I never said GanZi was terrible, he's great TvT and a fucking monster TvZ. Gatored and MaNa both have really good PvT, far better than GanZi's TvP. If you're going to bring up all the players MaNa has lost to PvT, then I can bring up all the players GanZi has lost to TvP. It's a long list. He's beaten HuK and KiWiKaKi, but that's the only time he's beaten anyone who doesn't suck in a TvP. MaNa has beaten equivalent better players than HuK and KiWiKaKi PvT.
By the way, I like how you accuse me of being a foreigner fanboy. Yeah, no. Calling someone a fanboy because you can't sway them with your argument is the worst thing you can do.
Don't worry, though. We're all wrong sometimes.
Ganzi has actually barely played PvT at all in any tournaments. In the last four months he's played: Gatored 0-2 L Puzzle 2-0 W Oz 1-2 L Inori 1-0 W MC 0-1 L Puzzle 0-1 L
So yeah he played a total of 11 games of PvT since September, winning 4 and losing 7. Of the seven he lost 3 were to the three best PvT players in the entire world, and he even beat one of the (Puzzle) in a bo3. Then you're got Gatored who's an upset.
MMA and Ryung have legit bad PvT and you have the evidence to see that but Ganzi is being unfairly lumped in with them on the back of playing almost no PvT's at all and when he does mostly to extremely good PvT players.
Calling Mana's PvT better than Ganzi's is frankly laughable and certainly not based on evidence.
I forgot he beat Puzzle too. My bad.
And Gatored beating GanZi wasn't an upset. Gatored beat TOP at IEM and I predicted that Gatored would defeat GanZi before it happened.
TOP has really, really bad TvP. There not much stats there because again no Protoss in Korea means most Koreans have only played Zerg's and Terran's in the last six months. I watched the TOP vs Mana series and Mana derped pretty hard in Games 2+3 when I expected him to win after game 1, but I guess game 1 was Terminus so him winning that is no surprise.
No Protoss on GSL doesn't equal to no protoss on korea.
Hm, are u sure its 14th of January 2am, as it says? I think its supposed to be played tomorrow 8pm some US time, so 2am 15th of january would make more sense ^^
I read Ganzi's interview for getting out of his group. He's definitely not confident about winning TvP and I tend to trust players themselves if they think they can't win or at the very least do well. Unless of course you're Nestea from half a year ago....
But in all seriousness, I think Mana should win, but I don't say that with confidence at all.
On January 14 2012 00:51 Noispaxen wrote: Hm, are u sure its 14th of January 2am, as it says? I think its supposed to be played tomorrow 8pm some US time, so 2am 15th of january would make more sense ^^
I'm wondering as well. Is that played in 4 hours or not?
On January 12 2012 16:31 Nifel wrote: When Mana is at the top of his game, I see him as the best foreign Protoss. So far all the series in fight club have been good, but this one has potential to be mind blowing. Or it'll just go down as a another example of a Korean beating some foreign dude.
Mana's never the best foreign Protoss ever. At the very best he's the best in PvT but even then Huk has many more big wins on his belt than Mana and in PvP and PvZ he's definitely not the best foreign Protoss.
I disagree (on the part that he's not the best obviously, not on that HuK has more "big wins"). Mana has shown much more impressive play than HuK. Imoho. Also, please note that I said "I see him as the best..", not that he was. I might be wrong. I don't care.
Hello IGN boys, if u're reading this, can you please allow resolution change on the stream? I have slow network and only high quality which is impossible to watch atm, I will be happy with 240p as long as its smooth.
OK, just read your answer on chat, I'll watch rebroadcasts than, thanks
On January 15 2012 10:56 red4ce wrote: HAHAHA 3-0 already? I see SlayerS terrans still can't TvP.
PUMA is the only terran you can say he "can" TvP (he lost vs mana btw) and still in 90% of his games he does 1/2 base all-ins, 111 or reactor FE into ghost push
On January 15 2012 11:15 Olinimm wrote: Mana had too many stalkers I think. They were absolutely useless vs that composition.
Mana was in a tough spot, but I don't think he engaged the army correctly. As a SC1-protoss he should know that one cannot attack into a tank-heavy army like that.
On January 15 2012 11:44 5unrise wrote: Ganzi is really good at comebacks, he was down 1-3 against kas as well and went on to wint he next 4 games.
Well, if he played from the SlayerS house I'm sure he got all the help in the world he needed...
yeah I mean he can get boxer to play 1 game and then MMA to play another. Only after they lose 3 games does he actually start playing LOL
May not be out of the realm of possibility that they give some of their newbies a chance to play first.
would make sense, but i doubt slayers would take this kind of risk. keep in mind that every player has a unique style of hotkeying his units and production facilities and also a particular playstyle. from the replays, it would be very easy do catch them if they would let someone else than ganzi play...
Pretty unsurprising result. Ganzi is fine with TvT and TvZ, but TvP is pretty clearly his weakness (he has a 36% winrate against Tosses according to TLPD). However, he's still a Code S player, so despite that being his weakest matchup, he went out 4-5 against one of EU's best Protosses in that Protoss's strongest matchup. WP by Mana nonetheless, happy to see 1-1-1s getting crushed.
On January 12 2012 14:13 RPR_Tempest wrote: MaNa has really, really good PvT.
GanZi is fucking shit against Protoss. So is Ryung. So is Clide. So is BoxeR. MMA seems to have improved a bit but he still has a pretty bad record.
SlayerS Terrans don't beat Protoss. MaNa will beat GanZi in fairly one-sided fashion.
It would actually be a tremendous upset for GanZi to win here.
Agree with the bold but you forgot something important. Ganzi is from South Korea, Mana is not. So Ganzi will still probably win.
Tell that to Gatored.
I don't know why people make bad posts like this bringing up the one piece of evidence they have when there's so much evidence to the contrary.
lol. What evidence is there to the contrary? Please tell me.
By the way, I have far more than one piece of evidence.
It's a terrible post because it's such a completely redundant piece of information. What is your point? That Ganzi has lost vs a foreign player? Yeah, no shit he's not able to have a 100% record vs foreigners, what a terrible player Ganzi must be. He's got a 68% overall win rate on TLPD (higher than any non Korean player) but nevermind because he lost to Gatored once in a best of three so Mana has got this no problem, right? Code S for multiples seasons? Yeah, what's that this is Mana we're talking about here he's a PvT god.
As for Mana, well he's a beast he beat Puma once at IEM, didn't you all see what a boss mode PvT he has? He beat Puma online once too, god he's so good PvT.
Nevermind that Mana has lost PvT's in the last six months to Polt, TOP, Bomber, Yoda and Puma because I'm just going to blind fanboy foreign players and bring up any and all examples of the foreigner winning without mentioning at all any of the times he loses, even if they completely outweigh the wins.
Mana might win this, he might not but even with lag he is up against a Code S player who has a legitimate claim to be amongst the 10 best players in the world. Mana would scrape his way into the top 50 at best.
YoDa, PuMa, Bomber, Polt and TOP are all a lot better at TvP than GanZi. They don't outweigh his impressive wins at all. Plus I never said GanZi was terrible, he's great TvT and a fucking monster TvZ. Gatored and MaNa both have really good PvT, far better than GanZi's TvP. If you're going to bring up all the players MaNa has lost to PvT, then I can bring up all the players GanZi has lost to TvP. It's a long list. He's beaten HuK and KiWiKaKi, but that's the only time he's beaten anyone who doesn't suck in a TvP. MaNa has beaten equivalent better players than HuK and KiWiKaKi PvT.
By the way, I like how you accuse me of being a foreigner fanboy. Yeah, no. Calling someone a fanboy because you can't sway them with your argument is the worst thing you can do.
Don't worry, though. We're all wrong sometimes.
Calling Mana's PvT better than Ganzi's is frankly laughable and certainly not based on evidence.
On January 15 2012 12:20 aintz wrote: only if he knew how to do 1/1/1. if he 1/1/1 ed properly he wouldve won easily.
Well ganzi does know how to 1-1-1. He uses 1-1-1 as much as puma. I remember during the code a qualifiers he 1-1-1 his way to code a and everyone was calling him a cheesy noob in the live thread, lol. I've seen ganzi do 1-1-1 a ton.
On January 12 2012 14:13 RPR_Tempest wrote: MaNa has really, really good PvT.
GanZi is fucking shit against Protoss. So is Ryung. So is Clide. So is BoxeR. MMA seems to have improved a bit but he still has a pretty bad record.
SlayerS Terrans don't beat Protoss. MaNa will beat GanZi in fairly one-sided fashion.
It would actually be a tremendous upset for GanZi to win here.
Agree with the bold but you forgot something important. Ganzi is from South Korea, Mana is not. So Ganzi will still probably win.
Tell that to Gatored.
I don't know why people make bad posts like this bringing up the one piece of evidence they have when there's so much evidence to the contrary.
lol. What evidence is there to the contrary? Please tell me.
By the way, I have far more than one piece of evidence.
It's a terrible post because it's such a completely redundant piece of information. What is your point? That Ganzi has lost vs a foreign player? Yeah, no shit he's not able to have a 100% record vs foreigners, what a terrible player Ganzi must be. He's got a 68% overall win rate on TLPD (higher than any non Korean player) but nevermind because he lost to Gatored once in a best of three so Mana has got this no problem, right? Code S for multiples seasons? Yeah, what's that this is Mana we're talking about here he's a PvT god.
As for Mana, well he's a beast he beat Puma once at IEM, didn't you all see what a boss mode PvT he has? He beat Puma online once too, god he's so good PvT.
Nevermind that Mana has lost PvT's in the last six months to Polt, TOP, Bomber, Yoda and Puma because I'm just going to blind fanboy foreign players and bring up any and all examples of the foreigner winning without mentioning at all any of the times he loses, even if they completely outweigh the wins.
Mana might win this, he might not but even with lag he is up against a Code S player who has a legitimate claim to be amongst the 10 best players in the world. Mana would scrape his way into the top 50 at best.
YoDa, PuMa, Bomber, Polt and TOP are all a lot better at TvP than GanZi. They don't outweigh his impressive wins at all. Plus I never said GanZi was terrible, he's great TvT and a fucking monster TvZ. Gatored and MaNa both have really good PvT, far better than GanZi's TvP. If you're going to bring up all the players MaNa has lost to PvT, then I can bring up all the players GanZi has lost to TvP. It's a long list. He's beaten HuK and KiWiKaKi, but that's the only time he's beaten anyone who doesn't suck in a TvP. MaNa has beaten equivalent better players than HuK and KiWiKaKi PvT.
By the way, I like how you accuse me of being a foreigner fanboy. Yeah, no. Calling someone a fanboy because you can't sway them with your argument is the worst thing you can do.
Don't worry, though. We're all wrong sometimes.
Calling Mana's PvT better than Ganzi's is frankly laughable and certainly not based on evidence.
What's up?
IDK,
Someone has really, really good PvT won against someone who is fucking shit against Protoss. 5-4
A very thin line between "really really good" and "fucking shit" so it seems.
On January 12 2012 14:13 RPR_Tempest wrote: MaNa has really, really good PvT.
GanZi is fucking shit against Protoss. So is Ryung. So is Clide. So is BoxeR. MMA seems to have improved a bit but he still has a pretty bad record.
SlayerS Terrans don't beat Protoss. MaNa will beat GanZi in fairly one-sided fashion.
It would actually be a tremendous upset for GanZi to win here.
Agree with the bold but you forgot something important. Ganzi is from South Korea, Mana is not. So Ganzi will still probably win.
Tell that to Gatored.
I don't know why people make bad posts like this bringing up the one piece of evidence they have when there's so much evidence to the contrary.
lol. What evidence is there to the contrary? Please tell me.
By the way, I have far more than one piece of evidence.
It's a terrible post because it's such a completely redundant piece of information. What is your point? That Ganzi has lost vs a foreign player? Yeah, no shit he's not able to have a 100% record vs foreigners, what a terrible player Ganzi must be. He's got a 68% overall win rate on TLPD (higher than any non Korean player) but nevermind because he lost to Gatored once in a best of three so Mana has got this no problem, right? Code S for multiples seasons? Yeah, what's that this is Mana we're talking about here he's a PvT god.
As for Mana, well he's a beast he beat Puma once at IEM, didn't you all see what a boss mode PvT he has? He beat Puma online once too, god he's so good PvT.
Nevermind that Mana has lost PvT's in the last six months to Polt, TOP, Bomber, Yoda and Puma because I'm just going to blind fanboy foreign players and bring up any and all examples of the foreigner winning without mentioning at all any of the times he loses, even if they completely outweigh the wins.
Mana might win this, he might not but even with lag he is up against a Code S player who has a legitimate claim to be amongst the 10 best players in the world. Mana would scrape his way into the top 50 at best.
YoDa, PuMa, Bomber, Polt and TOP are all a lot better at TvP than GanZi. They don't outweigh his impressive wins at all. Plus I never said GanZi was terrible, he's great TvT and a fucking monster TvZ. Gatored and MaNa both have really good PvT, far better than GanZi's TvP. If you're going to bring up all the players MaNa has lost to PvT, then I can bring up all the players GanZi has lost to TvP. It's a long list. He's beaten HuK and KiWiKaKi, but that's the only time he's beaten anyone who doesn't suck in a TvP. MaNa has beaten equivalent better players than HuK and KiWiKaKi PvT.
By the way, I like how you accuse me of being a foreigner fanboy. Yeah, no. Calling someone a fanboy because you can't sway them with your argument is the worst thing you can do.
Don't worry, though. We're all wrong sometimes.
Calling Mana's PvT better than Ganzi's is frankly laughable and certainly not based on evidence.
What's up?
It seemed like you were right due to his last post you quoted... Then I read that whole convo... and I don't know what you're celebrating.
And it seems like you were arguing that this is going to be one-sided so I don't think you have the right to say that; especially since the guy even acknowledged that Mana might win this.
On January 12 2012 14:13 RPR_Tempest wrote: MaNa has really, really good PvT.
GanZi is fucking shit against Protoss. So is Ryung. So is Clide. So is BoxeR. MMA seems to have improved a bit but he still has a pretty bad record.
SlayerS Terrans don't beat Protoss. MaNa will beat GanZi in fairly one-sided fashion.
It would actually be a tremendous upset for GanZi to win here.
Agree with the bold but you forgot something important. Ganzi is from South Korea, Mana is not. So Ganzi will still probably win.
Tell that to Gatored.
I don't know why people make bad posts like this bringing up the one piece of evidence they have when there's so much evidence to the contrary.
lol. What evidence is there to the contrary? Please tell me.
By the way, I have far more than one piece of evidence.
It's a terrible post because it's such a completely redundant piece of information. What is your point? That Ganzi has lost vs a foreign player? Yeah, no shit he's not able to have a 100% record vs foreigners, what a terrible player Ganzi must be. He's got a 68% overall win rate on TLPD (higher than any non Korean player) but nevermind because he lost to Gatored once in a best of three so Mana has got this no problem, right? Code S for multiples seasons? Yeah, what's that this is Mana we're talking about here he's a PvT god.
As for Mana, well he's a beast he beat Puma once at IEM, didn't you all see what a boss mode PvT he has? He beat Puma online once too, god he's so good PvT.
Nevermind that Mana has lost PvT's in the last six months to Polt, TOP, Bomber, Yoda and Puma because I'm just going to blind fanboy foreign players and bring up any and all examples of the foreigner winning without mentioning at all any of the times he loses, even if they completely outweigh the wins.
Mana might win this, he might not but even with lag he is up against a Code S player who has a legitimate claim to be amongst the 10 best players in the world. Mana would scrape his way into the top 50 at best.
YoDa, PuMa, Bomber, Polt and TOP are all a lot better at TvP than GanZi. They don't outweigh his impressive wins at all. Plus I never said GanZi was terrible, he's great TvT and a fucking monster TvZ. Gatored and MaNa both have really good PvT, far better than GanZi's TvP. If you're going to bring up all the players MaNa has lost to PvT, then I can bring up all the players GanZi has lost to TvP. It's a long list. He's beaten HuK and KiWiKaKi, but that's the only time he's beaten anyone who doesn't suck in a TvP. MaNa has beaten equivalent better players than HuK and KiWiKaKi PvT.
By the way, I like how you accuse me of being a foreigner fanboy. Yeah, no. Calling someone a fanboy because you can't sway them with your argument is the worst thing you can do.
Don't worry, though. We're all wrong sometimes.
Calling Mana's PvT better than Ganzi's is frankly laughable and certainly not based on evidence.
What's up?
It seemed like you were right due to his last post you quoted... Then I read that whole convo... and I don't know what you're celebrating.
And it seems like you were arguing that this is going to be one-sided so I don't think you have the right to say that; especially since the guy even acknowledged that Mana might win this.
Initially, yeah. But then I remembered that GanZi has beaten HuK and KiWiKaKi and stuff so it just became solely about who would win. Don't take it too seriously.
On January 15 2012 12:20 aintz wrote: only if he knew how to do 1/1/1. if he 1/1/1 ed properly he wouldve won easily.
Well ganzi does know how to 1-1-1. He uses 1-1-1 as much as puma. I remember during the code a qualifiers he 1-1-1 his way to code a and everyone was calling him a cheesy noob in the live thread, lol. I've seen ganzi do 1-1-1 a ton.
he did a very very delayed push with 2/1/1 and didnt pull enough scvs
On January 15 2012 12:12 HolyArrow wrote: Pretty unsurprising result. Ganzi is fine with TvT and TvZ, but TvP is pretty clearly his weakness (he has a 36% winrate against Tosses according to TLPD). However, he's still a Code S player, so despite that being his weakest matchup, he went out 4-5 against one of EU's best Protosses in that Protoss's strongest matchup. WP by Mana nonetheless, happy to see 1-1-1s getting crushed.
On January 12 2012 14:13 RPR_Tempest wrote: MaNa has really, really good PvT.
GanZi is fucking shit against Protoss. So is Ryung. So is Clide. So is BoxeR. MMA seems to have improved a bit but he still has a pretty bad record.
SlayerS Terrans don't beat Protoss. MaNa will beat GanZi in fairly one-sided fashion.
It would actually be a tremendous upset for GanZi to win here.
Agree with the bold but you forgot something important. Ganzi is from South Korea, Mana is not. So Ganzi will still probably win.
Tell that to Gatored.
I don't know why people make bad posts like this bringing up the one piece of evidence they have when there's so much evidence to the contrary.
lol. What evidence is there to the contrary? Please tell me.
By the way, I have far more than one piece of evidence.
It's a terrible post because it's such a completely redundant piece of information. What is your point? That Ganzi has lost vs a foreign player? Yeah, no shit he's not able to have a 100% record vs foreigners, what a terrible player Ganzi must be. He's got a 68% overall win rate on TLPD (higher than any non Korean player) but nevermind because he lost to Gatored once in a best of three so Mana has got this no problem, right? Code S for multiples seasons? Yeah, what's that this is Mana we're talking about here he's a PvT god.
As for Mana, well he's a beast he beat Puma once at IEM, didn't you all see what a boss mode PvT he has? He beat Puma online once too, god he's so good PvT.
Nevermind that Mana has lost PvT's in the last six months to Polt, TOP, Bomber, Yoda and Puma because I'm just going to blind fanboy foreign players and bring up any and all examples of the foreigner winning without mentioning at all any of the times he loses, even if they completely outweigh the wins.
Mana might win this, he might not but even with lag he is up against a Code S player who has a legitimate claim to be amongst the 10 best players in the world. Mana would scrape his way into the top 50 at best.
YoDa, PuMa, Bomber, Polt and TOP are all a lot better at TvP than GanZi. They don't outweigh his impressive wins at all. Plus I never said GanZi was terrible, he's great TvT and a fucking monster TvZ. Gatored and MaNa both have really good PvT, far better than GanZi's TvP. If you're going to bring up all the players MaNa has lost to PvT, then I can bring up all the players GanZi has lost to TvP. It's a long list. He's beaten HuK and KiWiKaKi, but that's the only time he's beaten anyone who doesn't suck in a TvP. MaNa has beaten equivalent better players than HuK and KiWiKaKi PvT.
By the way, I like how you accuse me of being a foreigner fanboy. Yeah, no. Calling someone a fanboy because you can't sway them with your argument is the worst thing you can do.
Don't worry, though. We're all wrong sometimes.
Calling Mana's PvT better than Ganzi's is frankly laughable and certainly not based on evidence.
What's up?
So the guy who is "fucking shit" vs Protoss lost 5-4 with cross server lag to a guy with "far better PvT"? You sure proved your point...
As demostrated above, when someone loses there will always be excuses. Doesnt matter if foreigner loses to korean or it is ther otehr way around, someone will pop out produse plant of reasons why this reasult isnt vialble and shouldnt matter.
On January 12 2012 14:13 RPR_Tempest wrote: MaNa has really, really good PvT.
GanZi is fucking shit against Protoss. So is Ryung. So is Clide. So is BoxeR. MMA seems to have improved a bit but he still has a pretty bad record.
SlayerS Terrans don't beat Protoss. MaNa will beat GanZi in fairly one-sided fashion.
It would actually be a tremendous upset for GanZi to win here.
Agree with the bold but you forgot something important. Ganzi is from South Korea, Mana is not. So Ganzi will still probably win.
Tell that to Gatored.
I don't know why people make bad posts like this bringing up the one piece of evidence they have when there's so much evidence to the contrary.
lol. What evidence is there to the contrary? Please tell me.
By the way, I have far more than one piece of evidence.
It's a terrible post because it's such a completely redundant piece of information. What is your point? That Ganzi has lost vs a foreign player? Yeah, no shit he's not able to have a 100% record vs foreigners, what a terrible player Ganzi must be. He's got a 68% overall win rate on TLPD (higher than any non Korean player) but nevermind because he lost to Gatored once in a best of three so Mana has got this no problem, right? Code S for multiples seasons? Yeah, what's that this is Mana we're talking about here he's a PvT god.
As for Mana, well he's a beast he beat Puma once at IEM, didn't you all see what a boss mode PvT he has? He beat Puma online once too, god he's so good PvT.
Nevermind that Mana has lost PvT's in the last six months to Polt, TOP, Bomber, Yoda and Puma because I'm just going to blind fanboy foreign players and bring up any and all examples of the foreigner winning without mentioning at all any of the times he loses, even if they completely outweigh the wins.
Mana might win this, he might not but even with lag he is up against a Code S player who has a legitimate claim to be amongst the 10 best players in the world. Mana would scrape his way into the top 50 at best.
YoDa, PuMa, Bomber, Polt and TOP are all a lot better at TvP than GanZi. They don't outweigh his impressive wins at all. Plus I never said GanZi was terrible, he's great TvT and a fucking monster TvZ. Gatored and MaNa both have really good PvT, far better than GanZi's TvP. If you're going to bring up all the players MaNa has lost to PvT, then I can bring up all the players GanZi has lost to TvP. It's a long list. He's beaten HuK and KiWiKaKi, but that's the only time he's beaten anyone who doesn't suck in a TvP. MaNa has beaten equivalent better players than HuK and KiWiKaKi PvT.
By the way, I like how you accuse me of being a foreigner fanboy. Yeah, no. Calling someone a fanboy because you can't sway them with your argument is the worst thing you can do.
Don't worry, though. We're all wrong sometimes.
Calling Mana's PvT better than Ganzi's is frankly laughable and certainly not based on evidence.
What's up?
So the guy who is "fucking shit" vs Protoss lost 5-4 with cross server lag to a guy with "far better PvT"? You sure proved your point...
But they were both off-server. And in the case that one isn't then IPL switches servers every other game.
On January 15 2012 22:41 marmuc wrote: yes, mana is better at sc2 and ganzi was better at bw
No, he isn't...
GG MaNa!! I only managed to watch the first six games and then I fell asleep, but I'm happy that he managed to pull out a win against Ganzi and the show was really fun to watch.
On January 12 2012 14:13 RPR_Tempest wrote: MaNa has really, really good PvT.
GanZi is fucking shit against Protoss. So is Ryung. So is Clide. So is BoxeR. MMA seems to have improved a bit but he still has a pretty bad record.
SlayerS Terrans don't beat Protoss. MaNa will beat GanZi in fairly one-sided fashion.
It would actually be a tremendous upset for GanZi to win here.
Agree with the bold but you forgot something important. Ganzi is from South Korea, Mana is not. So Ganzi will still probably win.
Tell that to Gatored.
I don't know why people make bad posts like this bringing up the one piece of evidence they have when there's so much evidence to the contrary.
lol. What evidence is there to the contrary? Please tell me.
By the way, I have far more than one piece of evidence.
It's a terrible post because it's such a completely redundant piece of information. What is your point? That Ganzi has lost vs a foreign player? Yeah, no shit he's not able to have a 100% record vs foreigners, what a terrible player Ganzi must be. He's got a 68% overall win rate on TLPD (higher than any non Korean player) but nevermind because he lost to Gatored once in a best of three so Mana has got this no problem, right? Code S for multiples seasons? Yeah, what's that this is Mana we're talking about here he's a PvT god.
As for Mana, well he's a beast he beat Puma once at IEM, didn't you all see what a boss mode PvT he has? He beat Puma online once too, god he's so good PvT.
Nevermind that Mana has lost PvT's in the last six months to Polt, TOP, Bomber, Yoda and Puma because I'm just going to blind fanboy foreign players and bring up any and all examples of the foreigner winning without mentioning at all any of the times he loses, even if they completely outweigh the wins.
Mana might win this, he might not but even with lag he is up against a Code S player who has a legitimate claim to be amongst the 10 best players in the world. Mana would scrape his way into the top 50 at best.
YoDa, PuMa, Bomber, Polt and TOP are all a lot better at TvP than GanZi. They don't outweigh his impressive wins at all. Plus I never said GanZi was terrible, he's great TvT and a fucking monster TvZ. Gatored and MaNa both have really good PvT, far better than GanZi's TvP. If you're going to bring up all the players MaNa has lost to PvT, then I can bring up all the players GanZi has lost to TvP. It's a long list. He's beaten HuK and KiWiKaKi, but that's the only time he's beaten anyone who doesn't suck in a TvP. MaNa has beaten equivalent better players than HuK and KiWiKaKi PvT.
By the way, I like how you accuse me of being a foreigner fanboy. Yeah, no. Calling someone a fanboy because you can't sway them with your argument is the worst thing you can do.
Don't worry, though. We're all wrong sometimes.
Calling Mana's PvT better than Ganzi's is frankly laughable and certainly not based on evidence.
What's up?
So the guy who is "fucking shit" vs Protoss lost 5-4 with cross server lag to a guy with "far better PvT"? You sure proved your point...
No. It was a 5-4, online, 1 match. What you can say is "MaNa can compete with Koreans in PvT". Not less and not more.
"The win doesnt mean shit, Crossserver lag."
No. GanZi beat Sheth and the destroyer of worlds, Kas under same circumstances. Every win has meaning, you have to be very good to be able to beat GanZi, even like that. Again: "MaNa can compete with Koreans in PvT".
Agree with the bold but you forgot something important. Ganzi is from South Korea, Mana is not. So Ganzi will still probably win.
Tell that to Gatored.
I don't know why people make bad posts like this bringing up the one piece of evidence they have when there's so much evidence to the contrary.
lol. What evidence is there to the contrary? Please tell me.
By the way, I have far more than one piece of evidence.
It's a terrible post because it's such a completely redundant piece of information. What is your point? That Ganzi has lost vs a foreign player? Yeah, no shit he's not able to have a 100% record vs foreigners, what a terrible player Ganzi must be. He's got a 68% overall win rate on TLPD (higher than any non Korean player) but nevermind because he lost to Gatored once in a best of three so Mana has got this no problem, right? Code S for multiples seasons? Yeah, what's that this is Mana we're talking about here he's a PvT god.
As for Mana, well he's a beast he beat Puma once at IEM, didn't you all see what a boss mode PvT he has? He beat Puma online once too, god he's so good PvT.
Nevermind that Mana has lost PvT's in the last six months to Polt, TOP, Bomber, Yoda and Puma because I'm just going to blind fanboy foreign players and bring up any and all examples of the foreigner winning without mentioning at all any of the times he loses, even if they completely outweigh the wins.
Mana might win this, he might not but even with lag he is up against a Code S player who has a legitimate claim to be amongst the 10 best players in the world. Mana would scrape his way into the top 50 at best.
YoDa, PuMa, Bomber, Polt and TOP are all a lot better at TvP than GanZi. They don't outweigh his impressive wins at all. Plus I never said GanZi was terrible, he's great TvT and a fucking monster TvZ. Gatored and MaNa both have really good PvT, far better than GanZi's TvP. If you're going to bring up all the players MaNa has lost to PvT, then I can bring up all the players GanZi has lost to TvP. It's a long list. He's beaten HuK and KiWiKaKi, but that's the only time he's beaten anyone who doesn't suck in a TvP. MaNa has beaten equivalent better players than HuK and KiWiKaKi PvT.
By the way, I like how you accuse me of being a foreigner fanboy. Yeah, no. Calling someone a fanboy because you can't sway them with your argument is the worst thing you can do.
Don't worry, though. We're all wrong sometimes.
Calling Mana's PvT better than Ganzi's is frankly laughable and certainly not based on evidence.
What's up?
So the guy who is "fucking shit" vs Protoss lost 5-4 with cross server lag to a guy with "far better PvT"? You sure proved your point...
My point was that MaNa would win. He did.
That wasn't you point at all. I always accepted Mana had a chance to win but that he wasn't a way better player in the PvT matchup, which clearly he isn't as he barely won with cross server latency.
On January 15 2012 22:41 marmuc wrote: yes, mana is better at sc2 and ganzi was better at bw
Probably a troll but Ganzi is a way better player than Mana just not in PvT.
On January 15 2012 23:12 KalWarkov wrote: "MaNa is better than GanZi in sc2"
No. It was a 5-4, online, 1 match. What you can say is "MaNa can compete with Koreans in PvT". Not less and not more.
"The win doesnt mean shit, Crossserver lag."
No. GanZi beat Sheth and the destroyer of worlds, Kas under same circumstances. Every win has meaning, you have to be very good to be able to beat GanZi, even like that. Again: "MaNa can compete with Koreans in PvT".
The best way to view these events is as fun events which don't have all that much meaning. I'm guessing from Poland Mana has a fair bit of lag to NA and Ganzi has even more.
On January 12 2012 14:13 RPR_Tempest wrote: MaNa has really, really good PvT.
GanZi is fucking shit against Protoss. So is Ryung. So is Clide. So is BoxeR. MMA seems to have improved a bit but he still has a pretty bad record.
SlayerS Terrans don't beat Protoss. MaNa will beat GanZi in fairly one-sided fashion.
It would actually be a tremendous upset for GanZi to win here.
Agree with the bold but you forgot something important. Ganzi is from South Korea, Mana is not. So Ganzi will still probably win.
Tell that to Gatored.
I don't know why people make bad posts like this bringing up the one piece of evidence they have when there's so much evidence to the contrary.
lol. What evidence is there to the contrary? Please tell me.
By the way, I have far more than one piece of evidence.
It's a terrible post because it's such a completely redundant piece of information. What is your point? That Ganzi has lost vs a foreign player? Yeah, no shit he's not able to have a 100% record vs foreigners, what a terrible player Ganzi must be. He's got a 68% overall win rate on TLPD (higher than any non Korean player) but nevermind because he lost to Gatored once in a best of three so Mana has got this no problem, right? Code S for multiples seasons? Yeah, what's that this is Mana we're talking about here he's a PvT god.
As for Mana, well he's a beast he beat Puma once at IEM, didn't you all see what a boss mode PvT he has? He beat Puma online once too, god he's so good PvT.
Nevermind that Mana has lost PvT's in the last six months to Polt, TOP, Bomber, Yoda and Puma because I'm just going to blind fanboy foreign players and bring up any and all examples of the foreigner winning without mentioning at all any of the times he loses, even if they completely outweigh the wins.
Mana might win this, he might not but even with lag he is up against a Code S player who has a legitimate claim to be amongst the 10 best players in the world. Mana would scrape his way into the top 50 at best.
YoDa, PuMa, Bomber, Polt and TOP are all a lot better at TvP than GanZi. They don't outweigh his impressive wins at all. Plus I never said GanZi was terrible, he's great TvT and a fucking monster TvZ. Gatored and MaNa both have really good PvT, far better than GanZi's TvP. If you're going to bring up all the players MaNa has lost to PvT, then I can bring up all the players GanZi has lost to TvP. It's a long list. He's beaten HuK and KiWiKaKi, but that's the only time he's beaten anyone who doesn't suck in a TvP. MaNa has beaten equivalent better players than HuK and KiWiKaKi PvT.
By the way, I like how you accuse me of being a foreigner fanboy. Yeah, no. Calling someone a fanboy because you can't sway them with your argument is the worst thing you can do.
Don't worry, though. We're all wrong sometimes.
Calling Mana's PvT better than Ganzi's is frankly laughable and certainly not based on evidence.
What's up?
So the guy who is "fucking shit" vs Protoss lost 5-4 with cross server lag to a guy with "far better PvT"? You sure proved your point...
Just give up dude, Mana owned the koreans that you worship so much in every thread. Both played on NA, latency is the same. Also it was a best of 9, Mana didn't got lucky or anything, he's simply the better player.
Agree with the bold but you forgot something important. Ganzi is from South Korea, Mana is not. So Ganzi will still probably win.
Tell that to Gatored.
I don't know why people make bad posts like this bringing up the one piece of evidence they have when there's so much evidence to the contrary.
lol. What evidence is there to the contrary? Please tell me.
By the way, I have far more than one piece of evidence.
It's a terrible post because it's such a completely redundant piece of information. What is your point? That Ganzi has lost vs a foreign player? Yeah, no shit he's not able to have a 100% record vs foreigners, what a terrible player Ganzi must be. He's got a 68% overall win rate on TLPD (higher than any non Korean player) but nevermind because he lost to Gatored once in a best of three so Mana has got this no problem, right? Code S for multiples seasons? Yeah, what's that this is Mana we're talking about here he's a PvT god.
As for Mana, well he's a beast he beat Puma once at IEM, didn't you all see what a boss mode PvT he has? He beat Puma online once too, god he's so good PvT.
Nevermind that Mana has lost PvT's in the last six months to Polt, TOP, Bomber, Yoda and Puma because I'm just going to blind fanboy foreign players and bring up any and all examples of the foreigner winning without mentioning at all any of the times he loses, even if they completely outweigh the wins.
Mana might win this, he might not but even with lag he is up against a Code S player who has a legitimate claim to be amongst the 10 best players in the world. Mana would scrape his way into the top 50 at best.
YoDa, PuMa, Bomber, Polt and TOP are all a lot better at TvP than GanZi. They don't outweigh his impressive wins at all. Plus I never said GanZi was terrible, he's great TvT and a fucking monster TvZ. Gatored and MaNa both have really good PvT, far better than GanZi's TvP. If you're going to bring up all the players MaNa has lost to PvT, then I can bring up all the players GanZi has lost to TvP. It's a long list. He's beaten HuK and KiWiKaKi, but that's the only time he's beaten anyone who doesn't suck in a TvP. MaNa has beaten equivalent better players than HuK and KiWiKaKi PvT.
By the way, I like how you accuse me of being a foreigner fanboy. Yeah, no. Calling someone a fanboy because you can't sway them with your argument is the worst thing you can do.
Don't worry, though. We're all wrong sometimes.
Calling Mana's PvT better than Ganzi's is frankly laughable and certainly not based on evidence.
What's up?
So the guy who is "fucking shit" vs Protoss lost 5-4 with cross server lag to a guy with "far better PvT"? You sure proved your point...
Just give up dude, Mana owned the koreans that you worship so much in every thread. Both played on NA, latency is the same. Also it was a best of 9, Mana didn't got lucky or anything, he's simply the better player.
You are delusional. When Mana makes a Code S Round of 4 or wins a Code A we can talk. Even in Mana's best matchup by far and Ganzi's worst it was extremely close.
Lag from Poland to NA is not as bad as Korea to NA although it is heavily dependent on your own internet, which obviously we don't know.
On January 12 2012 14:16 RPR_Tempest wrote: [quote] Tell that to Gatored.
I don't know why people make bad posts like this bringing up the one piece of evidence they have when there's so much evidence to the contrary.
lol. What evidence is there to the contrary? Please tell me.
By the way, I have far more than one piece of evidence.
It's a terrible post because it's such a completely redundant piece of information. What is your point? That Ganzi has lost vs a foreign player? Yeah, no shit he's not able to have a 100% record vs foreigners, what a terrible player Ganzi must be. He's got a 68% overall win rate on TLPD (higher than any non Korean player) but nevermind because he lost to Gatored once in a best of three so Mana has got this no problem, right? Code S for multiples seasons? Yeah, what's that this is Mana we're talking about here he's a PvT god.
As for Mana, well he's a beast he beat Puma once at IEM, didn't you all see what a boss mode PvT he has? He beat Puma online once too, god he's so good PvT.
Nevermind that Mana has lost PvT's in the last six months to Polt, TOP, Bomber, Yoda and Puma because I'm just going to blind fanboy foreign players and bring up any and all examples of the foreigner winning without mentioning at all any of the times he loses, even if they completely outweigh the wins.
Mana might win this, he might not but even with lag he is up against a Code S player who has a legitimate claim to be amongst the 10 best players in the world. Mana would scrape his way into the top 50 at best.
YoDa, PuMa, Bomber, Polt and TOP are all a lot better at TvP than GanZi. They don't outweigh his impressive wins at all. Plus I never said GanZi was terrible, he's great TvT and a fucking monster TvZ. Gatored and MaNa both have really good PvT, far better than GanZi's TvP. If you're going to bring up all the players MaNa has lost to PvT, then I can bring up all the players GanZi has lost to TvP. It's a long list. He's beaten HuK and KiWiKaKi, but that's the only time he's beaten anyone who doesn't suck in a TvP. MaNa has beaten equivalent better players than HuK and KiWiKaKi PvT.
By the way, I like how you accuse me of being a foreigner fanboy. Yeah, no. Calling someone a fanboy because you can't sway them with your argument is the worst thing you can do.
Don't worry, though. We're all wrong sometimes.
Calling Mana's PvT better than Ganzi's is frankly laughable and certainly not based on evidence.
What's up?
So the guy who is "fucking shit" vs Protoss lost 5-4 with cross server lag to a guy with "far better PvT"? You sure proved your point...
Just give up dude, Mana owned the koreans that you worship so much in every thread. Both played on NA, latency is the same. Also it was a best of 9, Mana didn't got lucky or anything, he's simply the better player.
You are delusional. When Mana makes a Code S Round of 4 or wins a Code A we can talk. Even in Mana's best matchup by far and Ganzi's worst it was extremely close.
Lag from Poland to NA is not as bad as Korea to NA although it is heavily dependent on your own internet, which obviously we don't know.
what? suddenly ganzi have more excusses to be a worse player after all?
How can you possibly tell that koreans have bigger lags than europeans? Then why Demuslim would rather play on a korean server than european and why he said that he's gonna play KR server because EU is extremely laggy when you are in the US? Belive or not but it works both ways.
Mana is the better player and of the story dudette.
Agree with the bold but you forgot something important. Ganzi is from South Korea, Mana is not. So Ganzi will still probably win.
Tell that to Gatored.
I don't know why people make bad posts like this bringing up the one piece of evidence they have when there's so much evidence to the contrary.
lol. What evidence is there to the contrary? Please tell me.
By the way, I have far more than one piece of evidence.
It's a terrible post because it's such a completely redundant piece of information. What is your point? That Ganzi has lost vs a foreign player? Yeah, no shit he's not able to have a 100% record vs foreigners, what a terrible player Ganzi must be. He's got a 68% overall win rate on TLPD (higher than any non Korean player) but nevermind because he lost to Gatored once in a best of three so Mana has got this no problem, right? Code S for multiples seasons? Yeah, what's that this is Mana we're talking about here he's a PvT god.
As for Mana, well he's a beast he beat Puma once at IEM, didn't you all see what a boss mode PvT he has? He beat Puma online once too, god he's so good PvT.
Nevermind that Mana has lost PvT's in the last six months to Polt, TOP, Bomber, Yoda and Puma because I'm just going to blind fanboy foreign players and bring up any and all examples of the foreigner winning without mentioning at all any of the times he loses, even if they completely outweigh the wins.
Mana might win this, he might not but even with lag he is up against a Code S player who has a legitimate claim to be amongst the 10 best players in the world. Mana would scrape his way into the top 50 at best.
YoDa, PuMa, Bomber, Polt and TOP are all a lot better at TvP than GanZi. They don't outweigh his impressive wins at all. Plus I never said GanZi was terrible, he's great TvT and a fucking monster TvZ. Gatored and MaNa both have really good PvT, far better than GanZi's TvP. If you're going to bring up all the players MaNa has lost to PvT, then I can bring up all the players GanZi has lost to TvP. It's a long list. He's beaten HuK and KiWiKaKi, but that's the only time he's beaten anyone who doesn't suck in a TvP. MaNa has beaten equivalent better players than HuK and KiWiKaKi PvT.
By the way, I like how you accuse me of being a foreigner fanboy. Yeah, no. Calling someone a fanboy because you can't sway them with your argument is the worst thing you can do.
Don't worry, though. We're all wrong sometimes.
Calling Mana's PvT better than Ganzi's is frankly laughable and certainly not based on evidence.
What's up?
So the guy who is "fucking shit" vs Protoss lost 5-4 with cross server lag to a guy with "far better PvT"? You sure proved your point...
Just give up dude, Mana owned the koreans that you worship so much in every thread. Both played on NA, latency is the same. Also it was a best of 9, Mana didn't got lucky or anything, he's simply the better player.
Hahaha the same ridiculous guy that was claiming in the homestory cup 4 statistics thread that foreigners were on part or better than koreans. I hope that you are trolling. Anyways it's still sad that code S terrans can't even beat foreigners protoss, but I guess that we will have Jjakji as hope still in code S
why do people think that mana is better than ganzi just because he beat him in 1 series?
Polt has a winning record against MMA, do you think polt is better than MMA?
Ganzi has a better record in more distinguished tourneys so he is probably the better player overall. Mana is probably better than Ganzi is at TvP though.
Can't people accept these 2 things at the same time?
On January 16 2012 02:18 poorcloud wrote: why do people think that mana is better than ganzi just because he beat him in 1 series?
Polt has a winning record against MMA, do you think polt is better than MMA?
Ganzi has a better record in more distinguished tourneys so he is probably the better player overall. Mana is probably better than Ganzi is at TvP though.
Can't people accept these 2 things at the same time?
EXACTLY. This whole argument is pretty stupid. Ganzi is more likely a better player because of his incredible training regime, Mana is an outstanding player that could and did take him out. Mana has connection advantage? Who knows, maybe Ganzi has "better keyboard" advantage, or some superstitious shit advantage. This is SC2 and in words Idra could have said it "i coinflipped correctly twice so I won".
On January 16 2012 02:29 MrMercuG wrote: PvT is not MaNa's best matchup :x
Oh and MaNa is 18, and still in school so, when he goes full-time it will be sick.
Mana self describes PvT as his best match up. He says he understands it better than any other match up. He also has some really well planned timings in it. For example, the blink play he did on lost temple is a staple of his. He usually does it close air on that map and sometimes metal (I've also seen him proxy the robo and do it on dual site). Its timed out so that it hits just before siege or stim (unless its a straight stim rush), depending on what the Terran is doing, and it he usually cancels a tech lab upgrade. He has lots of things like that, just a very solid PvT player.
Btw its pretty obvious that code s terrans are weak against protoss since there are almost no protss in the code S. It is known that the best koreans practice mainly custom games and matchups as they currently need. So there is much more pratice against T and Z for Ganzi. Mana did a great job and i was very happy he was able to beat Ganzi, good luck to him I hope he goes full time!
Guys you should try not to show when the replay ends. I mentioned this in chat, but if replay ends every time when one player leaves, for example in all the games when mana left replay ended, it made it pretty obvious that mana sent it replays and most likely was the one who won the series.
So we knew Mana won the whole thing when it was only 3 - 1. To me personally it made it a bit obvious and less exciting to watch. I think if you pause replay when one player GGs or cover up when replay ends some other way would prevent this.
On January 16 2012 01:55 marmuc wrote: Mana is the better player and of the story dudette.
Code A winner, Code S Ro4. End of story.
Dreamhack, Assembly and ESWC runner-up, earned twice the amout of money. End of Story. Arguing, who the better player is, is just meaningless, Ganzi has beaten Leenock, Losira and Jjakji in offline-tournaments, MaNa has beaten NaDa, Puma and MC. I guess they are both pretty good, even in the OP the voting is 220:220 at this point.
On January 16 2012 01:55 marmuc wrote: Mana is the better player and of the story dudette.
Code A winner, Code S Ro4. End of story.
Dreamhack, Assembly and ESWC runner-up, earned twice the amout of money. End of Story. Arguing, who the better player is, is just meaningless, Ganzi has beaten Leenock, Losira and Jjakji in offline-tournaments, MaNa has beaten NaDa, Puma and MC. I guess they are both pretty good, even in the OP the voting is 220:220 at this point.
On January 16 2012 01:55 marmuc wrote: Mana is the better player and of the story dudette.
Code A winner, Code S Ro4. End of story.
Dreamhack, Assembly and ESWC runner-up, earned twice the amout of money
Not remotely comparable to Code S and Code A.
Money earnt means nothing. Sen has earnt more money than Jjakji but Jjakji is an insanely superior player (as evidenced by their games last week).
Other hilarious money comparisons include Hongun earning more than SC, Jinro earning more than Nerchio, Select earning more than Losira and many others.
It says nothing about current skill level.
Do you honestly think that if Mana went to Korea he would make it through the Code A qualifiers, through Code A and then through his Code S group into the Ro16 like Ganzi has done?
Of course he wouldn't. He wouldn't even make it through the qualifiers (as no foreigner has ever successfully done) and even if he did he wouldn't make it through Code A.
I was the guy who started this whole conversation, but how can people honestly say that MaNa is better than GanZi? MaNa is better at this match-up, but GanZi's other two match-ups are both really good, much better than MaNa's other two.
On January 16 2012 15:29 RPR_Tempest wrote: I was the guy who started this whole conversation, but how can people honestly say that MaNa is better than GanZi? MaNa is better at this match-up, but GanZi's other two match-ups are both really good, much better than MaNa's other two.
This is why it is stupid and extremely dumb to say "X > Y" in SC...Inca's PvP is UNREAL! but as we all have seen his PvZ/PvT is kind of a joke can't judge a player based on one matchup
Can people stop acting as if just because something is online and cross server it's an invalid game?
The distance from Poland to California and Korea to California is roughly the same, and I'd argue that it favors Korea due to better internet service. Koreans with fast internet really don't feel that much delay, only certain ISPs / weak internet really have trouble (according to HwangSin, when he got new internet he felt almost 0 delay on NA). Europeans do have quite a bit of delay on NA, at least, certainly less than NA to Europe (as the EU server is in western europe and east coast americans really have very little delay).
MaNa played well and deserved the win. No point in arguing who is overall the better player, you're never gonna come to a conclusion. Both are great players, both played well, MaNa won.
If GanZi didn't want to take the match seriously, he wouldn't play. Obviously he's not preparing as hard for this as for GSL, but a Bo9 for $500 is pretty good time:money return when we see korean players (sometimes code A/S like TSL_aLive, RevivaL, etc) competing in playhem dailies over four hours for $50.
On January 16 2012 01:55 marmuc wrote: Mana is the better player and of the story dudette.
Code A winner, Code S Ro4. End of story.
Dreamhack, Assembly and ESWC runner-up, earned twice the amout of money
Not remotely comparable to Code S and Code A.
Money earnt means nothing. Sen has earnt more money than Jjakji but Jjakji is an insanely superior player (as evidenced by their games last week).
Other hilarious money comparisons include Hongun earning more than SC, Jinro earning more than Nerchio, Select earning more than Losira and many others.
It says nothing about current skill level.
Do you honestly think that if Mana went to Korea he would make it through the Code A qualifiers, through Code A and then through his Code S group into the Ro16 like Ganzi has done?
Of course he wouldn't. He wouldn't even make it through the qualifiers (as no foreigner has ever successfully done) and even if he did he wouldn't make it through Code A.
Sounds like you're still grasping at straws. You ignored his comments about Mana beating Nada, MC, Puma etc.
Anyways, that's all I have to say, Well played by Mana, I don't think you can argue that Mana didn't deserve his win. And keep in mind he's in school, not full time.
On January 17 2012 11:03 Pokebunny wrote: Can people stop acting as if just because something is online and cross server it's an invalid game?
The distance from Poland to California and Korea to California is roughly the same, and I'd argue that it favors Korea due to better internet service. Koreans with fast internet really don't feel that much delay, only certain ISPs / weak internet really have trouble (according to HwangSin, when he got new internet he felt almost 0 delay on NA). Europeans do have quite a bit of delay on NA, at least, certainly less than NA to Europe (as the EU server is in western europe and east coast americans really have very little delay).
MaNa played well and deserved the win. No point in arguing who is overall the better player, you're never gonna come to a conclusion. Both are great players, both played well, MaNa won.
If GanZi didn't want to take the match seriously, he wouldn't play. Obviously he's not preparing as hard for this as for GSL, but a Bo9 for $500 is pretty good time:money return when we see korean players (sometimes code A/S like TSL_aLive, RevivaL, etc) competing in playhem dailies over four hours for $50.
They do not take these matches seriously, I promise you that. And they join the dailies for fun with friends/to steal money from foreigners (Back when dongraegu came over for a playhem once back in September he told me "I come steal american money." and was laughing, it was also why all Koreans in the ProS house would play them, for friendly-fun within the house and side-betting going on like "who can make it further" etc, but ultimately they found it humorous playing vs foreigners. They might take it serious if the foreigner is someone super famous (e.g: IdrA, Huk, NaNiwa, etc) but that's about it.
About the lag, different homes in Korea are affected differently, MVP A used to go to ProS to play ANY foreign tournaments because it had slightly better delay. Same with how PsW has VPN's for NA etc and how MVP's main-house is god awful.
On January 17 2012 11:03 Pokebunny wrote: Can people stop acting as if just because something is online and cross server it's an invalid game?
The distance from Poland to California and Korea to California is roughly the same, and I'd argue that it favors Korea due to better internet service. Koreans with fast internet really don't feel that much delay, only certain ISPs / weak internet really have trouble (according to HwangSin, when he got new internet he felt almost 0 delay on NA). Europeans do have quite a bit of delay on NA, at least, certainly less than NA to Europe (as the EU server is in western europe and east coast americans really have very little delay).
MaNa played well and deserved the win. No point in arguing who is overall the better player, you're never gonna come to a conclusion. Both are great players, both played well, MaNa won.
If GanZi didn't want to take the match seriously, he wouldn't play. Obviously he's not preparing as hard for this as for GSL, but a Bo9 for $500 is pretty good time:money return when we see korean players (sometimes code A/S like TSL_aLive, RevivaL, etc) competing in playhem dailies over four hours for $50.
They do not take these matches seriously, I promise you that. And they join the dailies for fun with friends/to steal money from foreigners (Back when dongraegu came over for a playhem once back in September he told me "I come steal american money." and was laughing, it was also why all Koreans in the ProS house would play them, for friendly-fun within the house and side-betting going on like "who can make it further" etc, but ultimately they found it humorous playing vs foreigners. They might take it serious if the foreigner is someone super famous (e.g: IdrA, Huk, NaNiwa, etc) but that's about it.
About the lag, different homes in Korea are affected differently, MVP A used to go to ProS to play ANY foreign tournaments because it had slightly better delay. Same with how PsW has VPN's for NA etc and how MVP's main-house is god awful.
lol im sure they dont take these as serious as a gsl or something but I feel like you contradict yourself with this post by saying they try to steal foreigners money but dont take it seriously at the same time. Wouldn't they be trying to win if they want to steal our money? If their only purpose of playing is to steal money or try to get furthest between all the other koreans why wouldnt they try to win? Also IPL Fight club money > playhem daily by far, not even comparable, way more on the line.
On January 17 2012 11:03 Pokebunny wrote: Can people stop acting as if just because something is online and cross server it's an invalid game?
The distance from Poland to California and Korea to California is roughly the same, and I'd argue that it favors Korea due to better internet service. Koreans with fast internet really don't feel that much delay, only certain ISPs / weak internet really have trouble (according to HwangSin, when he got new internet he felt almost 0 delay on NA). Europeans do have quite a bit of delay on NA, at least, certainly less than NA to Europe (as the EU server is in western europe and east coast americans really have very little delay).
MaNa played well and deserved the win. No point in arguing who is overall the better player, you're never gonna come to a conclusion. Both are great players, both played well, MaNa won.
If GanZi didn't want to take the match seriously, he wouldn't play. Obviously he's not preparing as hard for this as for GSL, but a Bo9 for $500 is pretty good time:money return when we see korean players (sometimes code A/S like TSL_aLive, RevivaL, etc) competing in playhem dailies over four hours for $50.
They do not take these matches seriously, I promise you that. And they join the dailies for fun with friends/to steal money from foreigners (Back when dongraegu came over for a playhem once back in September he told me "I come steal american money." and was laughing, it was also why all Koreans in the ProS house would play them, for friendly-fun within the house and side-betting going on like "who can make it further" etc, but ultimately they found it humorous playing vs foreigners. They might take it serious if the foreigner is someone super famous (e.g: IdrA, Huk, NaNiwa, etc) but that's about it.
About the lag, different homes in Korea are affected differently, MVP A used to go to ProS to play ANY foreign tournaments because it had slightly better delay. Same with how PsW has VPN's for NA etc and how MVP's main-house is god awful.
I never get why people do not realise that you cannot go faster than light and if you are very far away, it will take time, no matter how fast your internet is...
EPT
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/YwMM8.png)
SlayerS`GanZi has already taken out Sheth and Kas in some exciting series, but his first Protoss opponent awaits him this weekend. 
mouz.MaNa has been heralded as one of the best players in all of Europe, with some people betting huge that he will win his first major tournament in 2012. If he manages to stop GanZi this week, I'd be inclined to believe them!![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LtVvH.png)
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Gogo Mana fuck yeah! 
can't judge a player based on one matchup
