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On November 24 2011 21:49 aruken wrote:
lol artosis does not seems happy at all with the delay goody made:p
yea, and tasteless was like 'what only 15min break?'
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cheers, at least I get to watch the last lot of sets!!! Perhaps some of the ebst protoss players too 
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Coming up:
14:00 Group F DongRaeGu – LaLush (Artosis & Tasteless)
14:00 Group E SjoW – Bischu (Apollo & TotalBiscuit)
14:00 Group H SaSe – SortOf (Day[9] & MrBitter)
I'm gonna get me some DRUG
Edit: Oh, and we got a Dignitas team kill.
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never understood why they dont stagger the 3 different stream's start time a little bit and then we wouldnt have downtime between matches. if goody/mana didnt take so long, we might have had 20-30 min of downtime?
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On November 24 2011 21:48 AIOL! wrote:Italy is not that bad to watch. This is such a stereotype, like if you say all the frenchs like frogs This was true 15 years ago but today all the teams has pretty much the same kind of play, there's onliy in the spanish championship that you can say there's a real difference with the other european championships.
If you're still talking about soccer you absolutely have no idea! 
But this isn't the place to discuss soccer!!
I personally loved that long Goody game, just because its different. I'm actually sick of seeing tvt's like this thorzain - select series..
Loved Tasteless face when an admin told them that they would only have 15 minutes break.. :D
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On November 24 2011 21:50 february wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 21:47 gruff wrote:On November 24 2011 21:45 february wrote:On November 24 2011 21:39 SinTio wrote:On November 24 2011 21:31 february wrote:On November 24 2011 21:28 KinQuh wrote:On November 24 2011 21:27 february wrote:On November 24 2011 21:23 Phenrock wrote:
Let me make a comparison with other sports such as football (soccer). There are teams that play negatively too. It's a legitimate tactic, so if a team wants to only defend and then counter attack, it's their choice to do so. Much the same with Goody. It's not entertaining for some, can be entertaining for others.
The point is to win.
Unless you make extra rules to promote more aggresive play, you can't fault what Goody is doing. If you don't like Goody's play, simply don't watch, there are plenty of other games on.
With regards to better players, well that's down to the players. If Goody really isn't that good of a player, why does he keep winning then? We're no where near the perfect player yet, and I'm not sure if we'll get one anytime soon. He'll win with poor strategies as long as the metagame allows. I don't believe he has the ability to become a top-level progamer by committing himself so heavily to one style because his handspeed limits him so heavily. Has he really won anything against the best there is? Yeah, if he proves me wrong, great, I look forward to his games. But I think it's more likely that his rote macro turtle style sees him fall off the scene completely. I dont believe you have clue what you are talking about.If you are saying that GoOdy is bad then what NA is? Because you have like Slush and incontrol that are hanging in MLG without winning a game. Slush is a very flexible player and has put up decent results in competition. Incontrol has struggled for a very long time. My point is that players are going to have to get better or they will be left behind by more talented players. I don't think Goody is a talented player given the way he has played for over a year. I don't know why this is difficult to understand. It's not difficult to understand. Actually I'm pretty sure everybody here knew that already. But your first post I don't mean to be a dick, but players like really Goody need to get better or just fade away. The fact that he was able to stay in the game that long with absolutely zero thought or talent is devaluating SC2 progaming as a whole. Players like that should not exist after a year of really impressive SC2 development and we should expect more from progamers at this point. didn't sound like "He will fade away in future" but more like "He should be gone right now and never come back. He's hurting ESPORTS". Yeah, a bit extreme. But after seeing such great games at MLG and other tournaments I've been really excited about SC2's development. And then I have to watch a ridiculous hour long game between him and Mana where he effectively dead at the 20 minute mark. I don't think that kind of shit should be casted by the best in the business as a top level game of Starcraft 2, you know? The first rounds of the open bracket in MLG wasn't exactly brilliant games either. If you want to see higher level games, just cherry pick the ones that are played today or what until friday/saturday to watch. Of course they weren't dude, it's the first round of the open bracket where anyone can play. There is massive potential for improvement for every single SC2 progamer out there, even the best of the best, it's only been a year. At the same time, I think a year is enough to flesh out your play and become a well rounded progamer. Is Goody well rounded? Can anybody really argue that he is? And if he's so one-dimensional, how does his future look anything but bleak?
 GoOdy
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On November 24 2011 21:40 february wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 21:35 Surriel wrote:On November 24 2011 21:27 february wrote:On November 24 2011 21:23 Phenrock wrote:
Let me make a comparison with other sports such as football (soccer). There are teams that play negatively too. It's a legitimate tactic, so if a team wants to only defend and then counter attack, it's their choice to do so. Much the same with Goody. It's not entertaining for some, can be entertaining for others.
The point is to win.
Unless you make extra rules to promote more aggresive play, you can't fault what Goody is doing. If you don't like Goody's play, simply don't watch, there are plenty of other games on.
With regards to better players, well that's down to the players. If Goody really isn't that good of a player, why does he keep winning then? We're no where near the perfect player yet, and I'm not sure if we'll get one anytime soon. He'll win with poor strategies as long as the metagame allows. I don't believe he has the ability to become a top-level progamer by committing himself so heavily to one style because his handspeed limits him so heavily. Has he really won anything against the best there is? Yeah, if he proves me wrong, great, I look forward to his games. But I think it's more likely that his rote macro turtle style sees him fall off the scene completely. You are extremely unfair in your assessment. Aside from say Naniwa and Huk, who has won against the best there is (Nestea, MVP)? Maybe DRG and Stephano in this competition, are you going to say the rest of the participants are terrible too? You say Goody has played the same style over a year, yet he is still have great success with it, aside from TvP where meching is terrible. But that is probably going to change comes HoTS. If anything I think Goody will have more success in it. “I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.” Bruce Lee. What great success has he acheieved? He certainly isn't in the top 10 of European progamers. He is limited to a single style because of his speed, by his own admission. How does an ever improving metagame or an expansion suggest that he'll be better in the future? I really can't imagine him breaking out as a top terran, and his style will eventually become hilarious as progamers get better and better.
He has won a lot of weekly online cups and has won his fair share of matches versus top Europe players. For instance in the last week he won the Sennheiser Cup, the Zotac cup, and the GameCreds Cup. Recently he came in 2nd in Battle for Berlin as well, beating stephano 2-1 in the semi. He doesnt go to many offline tournaments so its hard to show more robust result but he has shown that he can hold his own against top European players.
You say he isnt in the top 10 EU gamers but you would be hardpressed to find 10 have a major tournament behind their belt. Off the top of my head im thinking Thorzain, Stephano, Naniwa, Whitera and thats it, I would like to hear who you think are more successful than Goody. All the rest have to prove for themselves are just those online cups as well.
And I fail to see how the expansion and evolving meta games wouldnt help him. Just look at the units being introduced for Terran, which would make meching more complete and compliment the TvP mech style with the new BattleHellion and Warhound, which is his weak point atm. You critize his mech play yet some people like Artosis seems to think its the way future. You act as if he fail to understand the meta games or his weaknesses and have no ability to think about how to overcome his weaknesses. Goody is a thinking player and I think he will continue to do well in HoTS.
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On November 24 2011 21:54 zev318 wrote:
never understood why they dont stagger the 3 different stream's start time a little bit and then we wouldnt have downtime between matches. if goody/mana didnt take so long, we might have had 20-30 min of downtime?
so you're complaining about a conditional which wasn't true........just be happy there's >10min of downtime and move on ^^
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On November 24 2011 21:50 february wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 21:47 gruff wrote:On November 24 2011 21:45 february wrote:On November 24 2011 21:39 SinTio wrote:On November 24 2011 21:31 february wrote:On November 24 2011 21:28 KinQuh wrote:On November 24 2011 21:27 february wrote:On November 24 2011 21:23 Phenrock wrote:
Let me make a comparison with other sports such as football (soccer). There are teams that play negatively too. It's a legitimate tactic, so if a team wants to only defend and then counter attack, it's their choice to do so. Much the same with Goody. It's not entertaining for some, can be entertaining for others.
The point is to win.
Unless you make extra rules to promote more aggresive play, you can't fault what Goody is doing. If you don't like Goody's play, simply don't watch, there are plenty of other games on.
With regards to better players, well that's down to the players. If Goody really isn't that good of a player, why does he keep winning then? We're no where near the perfect player yet, and I'm not sure if we'll get one anytime soon. He'll win with poor strategies as long as the metagame allows. I don't believe he has the ability to become a top-level progamer by committing himself so heavily to one style because his handspeed limits him so heavily. Has he really won anything against the best there is? Yeah, if he proves me wrong, great, I look forward to his games. But I think it's more likely that his rote macro turtle style sees him fall off the scene completely. I dont believe you have clue what you are talking about.If you are saying that GoOdy is bad then what NA is? Because you have like Slush and incontrol that are hanging in MLG without winning a game. Slush is a very flexible player and has put up decent results in competition. Incontrol has struggled for a very long time. My point is that players are going to have to get better or they will be left behind by more talented players. I don't think Goody is a talented player given the way he has played for over a year. I don't know why this is difficult to understand. It's not difficult to understand. Actually I'm pretty sure everybody here knew that already. But your first post I don't mean to be a dick, but players like really Goody need to get better or just fade away. The fact that he was able to stay in the game that long with absolutely zero thought or talent is devaluating SC2 progaming as a whole. Players like that should not exist after a year of really impressive SC2 development and we should expect more from progamers at this point. didn't sound like "He will fade away in future" but more like "He should be gone right now and never come back. He's hurting ESPORTS". Yeah, a bit extreme. But after seeing such great games at MLG and other tournaments I've been really excited about SC2's development. And then I have to watch a ridiculous hour long game between him and Mana where he effectively dead at the 20 minute mark. I don't think that kind of shit should be casted by the best in the business as a top level game of Starcraft 2, you know? The first rounds of the open bracket in MLG wasn't exactly brilliant games either. If you want to see higher level games, just cherry pick the ones that are played today or what until friday/saturday to watch. Of course they weren't dude, it's the first round of the open bracket where anyone can play. There is massive potential for improvement for every single SC2 progamer out there, even the best of the best, it's only been a year. At the same time, I think a year is enough to flesh out your play and become a well rounded progamer. Is Goody well rounded? Can anybody really argue that he is? And if he's so one-dimensional, how does his future look anything but bleak?
Dude... you missed my point. It being the first round wasn't the important part.
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i like the music on day9, its the kind of shit i heard 10 to 15 years ago :D
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I thought it was backstage kareoke
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Why didnt Moon come to DH ? What is he busy with since he isnt taking part in any tournaments ?
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On November 24 2011 22:02 Drey wrote:
Why didnt Moon come to DH ? What is he busy with since he isnt taking part in any tournaments ?
He's playing mainly WC3 for WCG these days.
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he is playing WC3 at WCGs. Maybe he wants easy moneyz there
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Just tuned in. Sorry if it has been asked so far, but is there a possibility to open all 3 streams in 1 window, like the old teevox MLG site?
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On November 24 2011 21:51 Swiv wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 21:49 aruken wrote:
lol artosis does not seems happy at all with the delay goody made:p yea, and tasteless was like 'what only 15min break?'
the good news is goody got last place in his group and is then out.
On November 24 2011 21:53 AlternativeEgo wrote:
Coming up:
14:00 Group F DongRaeGu – LaLush (Artosis & Tasteless)
14:00 Group E SjoW – Bischu (Apollo & TotalBiscuit)
14:00 Group H SaSe – SortOf (Day[9] & MrBitter)
I'm gonna get me some DRUG
Edit: Oh, and we got a Dignitas team kill.
followed by 2 bo3 with stephano back to back. zerg time!!
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On November 24 2011 21:55 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 21:50 february wrote:On November 24 2011 21:47 gruff wrote:On November 24 2011 21:45 february wrote:On November 24 2011 21:39 SinTio wrote:On November 24 2011 21:31 february wrote:On November 24 2011 21:28 KinQuh wrote:On November 24 2011 21:27 february wrote:On November 24 2011 21:23 Phenrock wrote:
Let me make a comparison with other sports such as football (soccer). There are teams that play negatively too. It's a legitimate tactic, so if a team wants to only defend and then counter attack, it's their choice to do so. Much the same with Goody. It's not entertaining for some, can be entertaining for others.
The point is to win.
Unless you make extra rules to promote more aggresive play, you can't fault what Goody is doing. If you don't like Goody's play, simply don't watch, there are plenty of other games on.
With regards to better players, well that's down to the players. If Goody really isn't that good of a player, why does he keep winning then? We're no where near the perfect player yet, and I'm not sure if we'll get one anytime soon. He'll win with poor strategies as long as the metagame allows. I don't believe he has the ability to become a top-level progamer by committing himself so heavily to one style because his handspeed limits him so heavily. Has he really won anything against the best there is? Yeah, if he proves me wrong, great, I look forward to his games. But I think it's more likely that his rote macro turtle style sees him fall off the scene completely. I dont believe you have clue what you are talking about.If you are saying that GoOdy is bad then what NA is? Because you have like Slush and incontrol that are hanging in MLG without winning a game. Slush is a very flexible player and has put up decent results in competition. Incontrol has struggled for a very long time. My point is that players are going to have to get better or they will be left behind by more talented players. I don't think Goody is a talented player given the way he has played for over a year. I don't know why this is difficult to understand. It's not difficult to understand. Actually I'm pretty sure everybody here knew that already. But your first post I don't mean to be a dick, but players like really Goody need to get better or just fade away. The fact that he was able to stay in the game that long with absolutely zero thought or talent is devaluating SC2 progaming as a whole. Players like that should not exist after a year of really impressive SC2 development and we should expect more from progamers at this point. didn't sound like "He will fade away in future" but more like "He should be gone right now and never come back. He's hurting ESPORTS". Yeah, a bit extreme. But after seeing such great games at MLG and other tournaments I've been really excited about SC2's development. And then I have to watch a ridiculous hour long game between him and Mana where he effectively dead at the 20 minute mark. I don't think that kind of shit should be casted by the best in the business as a top level game of Starcraft 2, you know? The first rounds of the open bracket in MLG wasn't exactly brilliant games either. If you want to see higher level games, just cherry pick the ones that are played today or what until friday/saturday to watch. Of course they weren't dude, it's the first round of the open bracket where anyone can play. There is massive potential for improvement for every single SC2 progamer out there, even the best of the best, it's only been a year. At the same time, I think a year is enough to flesh out your play and become a well rounded progamer. Is Goody well rounded? Can anybody really argue that he is? And if he's so one-dimensional, how does his future look anything but bleak? GoOdy
Is that showing us he has potential or how well "rounded" he is (i think both).
Sry for being a jerk, but that was my first thought )
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On November 24 2011 21:55 Surriel wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 21:40 february wrote:On November 24 2011 21:35 Surriel wrote:On November 24 2011 21:27 february wrote:On November 24 2011 21:23 Phenrock wrote:
Let me make a comparison with other sports such as football (soccer). There are teams that play negatively too. It's a legitimate tactic, so if a team wants to only defend and then counter attack, it's their choice to do so. Much the same with Goody. It's not entertaining for some, can be entertaining for others.
The point is to win.
Unless you make extra rules to promote more aggresive play, you can't fault what Goody is doing. If you don't like Goody's play, simply don't watch, there are plenty of other games on.
With regards to better players, well that's down to the players. If Goody really isn't that good of a player, why does he keep winning then? We're no where near the perfect player yet, and I'm not sure if we'll get one anytime soon. He'll win with poor strategies as long as the metagame allows. I don't believe he has the ability to become a top-level progamer by committing himself so heavily to one style because his handspeed limits him so heavily. Has he really won anything against the best there is? Yeah, if he proves me wrong, great, I look forward to his games. But I think it's more likely that his rote macro turtle style sees him fall off the scene completely. You are extremely unfair in your assessment. Aside from say Naniwa and Huk, who has won against the best there is (Nestea, MVP)? Maybe DRG and Stephano in this competition, are you going to say the rest of the participants are terrible too? You say Goody has played the same style over a year, yet he is still have great success with it, aside from TvP where meching is terrible. But that is probably going to change comes HoTS. If anything I think Goody will have more success in it. “I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.” Bruce Lee. What great success has he acheieved? He certainly isn't in the top 10 of European progamers. He is limited to a single style because of his speed, by his own admission. How does an ever improving metagame or an expansion suggest that he'll be better in the future? I really can't imagine him breaking out as a top terran, and his style will eventually become hilarious as progamers get better and better. He has won a lot of weekly online cups and has won his fair share of matches versus top Europe players. For instance in the last week he won the Sennheiser Cup, the Zotac cup, and the GameCreds Cup. Recently he came in 2nd in Battle for Berlin as well, beating stephano 2-1 in the semi. He doesnt go to many offline tournaments so its hard to show more robust result but he has shown that he can hold his own against top European players. You say he isnt in the top 10 EU gamers but you would be hardpressed to find 10 have a major tournament behind their belt. Off the top of my head im thinking Thorzain, Stephano, Naniwa, Whitera and thats it, I would like to hear who you think are more successful than Goody. All the rest have to prove for themselves are just those online cups as well. And I fail to see how the expansion and evolving meta games wouldnt help him. Just look at the units being introduced for Terran, which would make meching more complete and compliment the TvP mech style with the new BattleHellion and Warhound, which is his weak point atm. You critize his mech play yet some people like Artosis seems to think its the way future. You act as if he fail to understand the meta games or his weaknesses and have no ability to think about how to overcome his weaknesses. Goody is a thinking player and I think he will continue to do well in HoTS.
Well he doesn't seem to be faring very well in this offline tournament, once again. I'm done arguing about it, I really don't see how anyone can defend such one-dimensional play in a game that has evolved so much in just a few months. When your handspeed is so low, your play so predictable and your strategies so rote how can you possibly keep up with a game that is changing by the week, and will continue to evolve by leaps and bounds in the coming months? It's impressive that Goody has made it work for so long, but I feel like time is running out for players who are so completely ordinary. And it's entirely beyond me that people defend that type of play when they watch Starcraft 2 to be entertained.
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EPT
