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On November 20 2011 17:38 Zlasher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 17:32 JoeSchmoe wrote:On November 20 2011 17:26 Femari wrote:On November 20 2011 17:22 babylon wrote:On November 20 2011 17:18 LeaD wrote:On November 20 2011 17:08 babylon wrote:On November 20 2011 17:03 hunts wrote:On November 20 2011 16:56 DoomsVille wrote:On November 20 2011 16:52 LeaD wrote:On November 20 2011 16:48 MonkSEA wrote:
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Ignore all the fiddling before hand, and think of when the whole MLG joke tourny happened:
Imagine this.
You're up against the best zerg player in the world in many players minds. You're 1-1 against him, you losing your last map, so you get to choose.
You were told that Shakura's was cross-position, and prepared a VERY specific build for this. You scout and find him not cross-position. Ok.. What the fuck do you think now?
Your WHOLE game plan is ruined, your scout was meant to arrive and position the cheese, now that you have found out that this doesn't have forced cross-position spawns, your cheese will not work, and you've already ruined your plan for that game if it continues(in this case forge first instead of nexus).
Think how you would feel when the admin came and told you that you must continue from this game, because the map is correct and forced cross-position spawns were removed in a previous tournament.
Now, I don't know about you, but after being told that it was cross position only, preparing a cannon rush for it and then getting told by admins that you must continue from the current game.. I'd feel pretty angry, pretty disappointed and very frustrated, and NaNiwa isn't known for his nice manner like some players.
I dunno man, I'd feel pretty fucked over, especially since to NaNiwa this is his life. Except Sundance said that no admin told Naniwa that the map was cross-position only. The reason he thought it was cross-position only it seems is because he hosted the first game on the wrong map, which had Nestea in cross-positions and when he came back earlier than Nestea, he watched the replay (possibly illegally) on the wrong map and Nestea was cross-positions. What do you think is more likely... that NaNiwa made up the entire story and raged for no reason... or that 1 admin decided he doesn't want to own up to his mistake? With Naniwas history, I honestly think it's more likely that he made it up... There's a difference between being BM and being a liar and a cheat, you know. Good god, I never thought I'd be the one defending Naniwa on an internet forum. The guy was BM as fuck and mediocre as all get-out in War3, and I mostly just wished he'd shut his mouth in the past, but the amount of hate that's being directed at him here is ridiculous. Here's the quote from Sundance: "He chose the wrong map then freaked. Delayed the broadcast and lashed out. It's not our job to make sure he knows which maps have crosses and which do not. He also chose before the admin went in to talk to him. Onward and upward..." I think Sundance would be able to tell if one of his admins even went to talk to him first. I hope MLG at least looks into the possibility of Naniwa watching the replay today. Sorry, here's the link: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/mimu3/naniwas_thoughts_on_mlg/ Again: how can you know that he wasn't told before the series even began by another admin that the map was cross-spawn only? We don't know anything at all. Anyone who thinks he won based on seeing NesTea's opening is, quite frankly, being absurd. Yeah I agree on that last part. 1:37 of play isn't going to tell him enough. I think it was to confirm cross spawns so that's what he watched it for. If anything possibly caused a Naniwa win other than his skill, it was the constant interruptions. That can throw a player off. That's all I can see causing it. or maybe the fact mlg allowed his coach to re-strategize with naniwa in the MIDDLE of the game? Wasn't a coach, it was the player manager, Scott Ford. Who was there to relay the message from Sundance and the Admins
Still makes no sense. Scott Ford is a player manager for TEAM COMPLEXITY. Why wouldn't the admins just do it themselves? it's their job after all to inform the player about what's going on.
I can certainly see how nestea and his coach are pissed. How is a guy affiliated with Naniwa's team allowed to talk to him in the middle of the game on the unfounded assumption that he wouldn't say anything extra after watching the game for 1:47? And notably he was in there for a minute of 2 after Naniwa said he needed to "rethink" his strategies.
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where can i watch naniwa vs nestea when naniwa beat nestea the 2nd time? i can't find :/
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On November 20 2011 18:05 HyunA wrote:
where can i watch naniwa vs nestea when naniwa beat nestea the 2nd time? i can't find :/
Search around the 9:30 hour mark on the red stream. The first game should be around there +/- a couple of minutes. First game was on Xel'Naga Caverns.
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Is there any way to read (unbiased if possible) summaries of the games?
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On November 20 2011 18:08 pdd wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 18:05 HyunA wrote:
where can i watch naniwa vs nestea when naniwa beat nestea the 2nd time? i can't find :/ Search around the 9:30 hour mark on the red stream. The first game should be around there +/- a couple of minutes. First game was on Xel'Naga Caverns.
thanks a lot man ^^ found it ! i'll go watch it right now.
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On November 20 2011 18:12 MilesTeg wrote:
Is there any way to read (unbiased if possible) summaries of the games?
read all 666 pages and remain unbiased ?
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so weird that people start fighting whenever foreigners beat the koreans. Should be more celebration imo.
You do not have to be korean to have solid play!
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Story goes:
Naniwa loses game two and instantly chooses Shakuras Plateau as the next map and loads up whatever version before an MLG admin gets to the booth. One of the players said they needed to go to the toilet but the admins said they had to go now.
Game starts, Tastosis still on screen they realise they have to pause as Naniwa hasn't done anything for a full in game minute, he then goes to the toilet. NesTea is rather annoyed as he was ready to go, coach says he can use the toilet as well if he wants but he doesn't want his thought process interrupted, as Naniwa is taking so long he decides to go anyway. As Naniwa hadn't done anything in game they decide to start from scratch. Naniwa gets back to his booth first and decides to fire up the replay of the last game to see where NesTea spawned and what his strategy was.
MLG officials tell him he can't do that but by the time they get in the booth he's already done it. Game restarts and Naniwas probe gets to cross position but doesn't find NesTea there. Despite it stating on the MLG website under the sc2 tournament map rules that this map has the same spawn positions as the ladder version AND Naniwa choosing the map before an admin could even get to his booth he pauses the game and kicks up a fuss saying the map is wrong and the admin said it was cross spawns only.
Admins aren't really sure what they can do as he's typing this all on screen so crowd can see it (you can hear the booing if you watch the stream back) and it looks pretty bad for them even if none of it is true. Officials tell him he can't restart and the map isn't wrong so he types out the "oh this tournament is bullshit, give me a moment to think" stuff. Naniwa is very angry and then his team coach (who has obviously been able to see what NesTea was doing in game up to this point) enters Naniwas booth with the game paused at 1:47 on the clock and talks to him. NesTea is sitting in his booth on his own and the match finally resumes (not reset - RESUMES) at least ten minutes after it was meant to have started with Naniwa having seen NesTeas opening on the first attempt to play the map and then been told it by his coach on the second attempt to play it.
Sources:
MLG Sundance: http://www.reddit.com/user/sundanced
Spectator: http://www.reddit.com/user/NaNiWaisnotBM
Frankly that, followed by his little ceremony is pretty awful from Complexity and Naniwa and the fact he only got one technical foul when you look at that in the cold light of day is really poor from MLG. It was not MLGs fault that Naniwa did not remember (or was not told by complexity staff) the map rules for the tournament and the fact he then stalled out one game after beign told by an admin they had to start, watched a replay of one attempt to play a game and then forced a pause in the second attempt of the game and got to talk to his coach essentially mid game is beyond bad and I fully understand why NesTea and the IM coach are so angry.
I'd almost go as far to say there have to be enough infringements that NesTea deserved a win by default for the third game of the series...
EDIT: you can watch the whole thing back on the MLG Site - Red Stream
9:36:40 NesTea wins game 2
9:40:40 Tasteless realises something is wrong while they're trying to get game 3 going
9:45:20 Attempt to start the game, more problems, booing from audience, eventually Tastosis gets told whats up
9:51:10 Game restarts with them in close by air spawns, you can see Naniwas probe going for the cross spawn cannon rush while NesTea's overlord is heading for the close by air natural
9:52:40 Naniwa pauses when he realises NesTea isn't cross spawns - NesTea obviously looking slightly annoyed
9:55:30 As Tasteless says NesTea probably has no fucking clue what's going on
9:58:30 bit of crowd "noise" - naniwa f* MLG (?)
10:01:59 the game finally resumes - 25 minutes after game 2 finished and 15 minutes after they'd already tried to start the map
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On November 20 2011 18:17 Grend wrote:
so weird that people start fighting whenever foreigners beat the koreans. Should be more celebration imo.
You do not have to be korean to have solid play!
It usually is celebrating, even though I think it's quite dumb how much emphasis is put on korean/foreigner crap. The reason why people are 'fighting' is due to the weird circumstances the last game took place under.
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On November 20 2011 18:12 MilesTeg wrote:
Is there any way to read (unbiased if possible) summaries of the games?
It's honestly not that intresting. Just completely blown out of proportion because it's Nestea.
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On November 20 2011 18:12 MilesTeg wrote:
Is there any way to read (unbiased if possible) summaries of the games?
Can't remember to death of me game 1
Game 2
Nestea goes very early pool build vs naniwa's FFE .
nestea deals a lot of damage , nexus cancel force in base cannons while droning up behind it and expoing to the natural.
In hopes of trying to pull ahead after a very delayed nexus , naniwa goes double stargate , handful of void rays with ton of phoenixes . Nestea snipes naniwa's cyber core , naniwa has extremely late warp gate tech
Deals decent damage , but nestea is already on 3 base and at hydra tech
Nestea gets a big army and forces his way into naniwa's base , naniwa tries to hold it off by lifting up roaches and hydras but nestea's economic lead is too much to deal with . Naniwa gets overrun.
Game 3
(Shakuras plateau incident)
Nestea and naniwa open economically with fast expands of their own.
Naniwa manages to get a cannon up behind nestea's natural expo , but nestea deals with it with relative ease.
Naniwa sends 7-10 zealots to their death doing almost nothing , maybe 1 or 2 roach dies while Nestea is on 3 bases.
Naniwa loads up several sentries in warp prism and send over to nestea's main.
excellent forcefields goes up , more units gets warped in , nestea can't defend his main.
Naniwa focuses the lair and nestea gg's soon after.
All three games sucked . Expected so much more after Artosis hyped it up so much. (Best ZvP we've ever seen?) lol.
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Holy shit that sounds terrible mvtaylor... Sounds like a disqualification to me.
edit: and by the game description he probably would have won anyways whiteout the bullshit so it's just bad for him giving his own win some smudge.
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Seen Naniwa's shenanigans now. That looked pretty dodgy to me...
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On November 20 2011 18:21 mvtaylor wrote:Story goes: Naniwa loses game two and instantly chooses Shakuras Plateau as the next map and loads up whatever version before an MLG admin gets to the booth. One of the players said they needed to go to the toilet but the admins said they had to go now. Game starts, Tastosis still on screen they realise they have to pause as Naniwa hasn't done anything for a full in game minute, he then goes to the toilet. NesTea is rather annoyed as he was ready to go, coach says he can use the toilet as well if he wants but he doesn't want his thought process interrupted, as Naniwa is taking so long he decides to go anyway. As Naniwa hadn't done anything in game they decide to start from scratch. Naniwa gets back to his booth first and decides to fire up the replay of the last game to see where NesTea spawned and what his strategy was. MLG officials tell him he can't do that but by the time they get in the booth he's already done it. Game restarts and Naniwas probe gets to cross position but doesn't find NesTea there. Despite it stating on the MLG website under the sc2 tournament map rules that this map has the same spawn positions as the ladder version AND Naniwa choosing the map before an admin could even get to his booth he pauses the game and kicks up a fuss saying the map is wrong and the admin said it was cross spawns only. Admins aren't really sure what they can do as he's typing this all on screen so crowd can see it (you can hear the booing if you watch the stream back) and it looks pretty bad for them even if none of it is true. Officials tell him he can't restart and the map isn't wrong so he types out the "oh this tournament is bullshit, give me a moment to think" stuff. Naniwa is very angry and then his team coach (who has obviously been able to see what NesTea was doing in game up to this point) enters Naniwas booth with the game paused at 1:47 on the clock and talks to him. NesTea is sitting in his booth on his own and the match finally resumes (not reset - RESUMES) at least ten minutes after it was meant to have started with Naniwa having seen NesTeas opening on the first attempt to play the map and then been told it by his coach on the second attempt to play it. Sources: MLG Sundance: http://www.reddit.com/user/sundancedSpectator: http://www.reddit.com/user/NaNiWaisnotBMFrankly that, followed by his little ceremony is pretty awful from Complexity and Naniwa and the fact he only got one technical foul when you look at that in the cold light of day is really poor from MLG. It was not MLGs fault that Naniwa did not remember (or was not told by complexity staff) the map rules for the tournament and the fact he then stalled out one game after beign told by an admin they had to start, watched a replay of one attempt to play a game and then forced a pause in the second attempt of the game and got to talk to his coach essentially mid game is beyond bad and I fully understand why NesTea and the IM coach are so angry. I'd almost go as far to say there have to be enough infringements that NesTea deserved a win by default for the third game of the series... EDIT: you can watch the whole thing back on the MLG site, NesTea wins game 2 at 9:36:40
Should make a post on this in the general forum to make sure the right people do get to see it and investigate it more thoroughly. I don't know if this all true, but it's worth looking into for MLG. Just should probably make sure to tell people none of that is confirmed (or I don't think it is) and to not make rash judgments before the information is out.
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On November 20 2011 18:21 mvtaylor wrote:Story goes: Naniwa loses game two and instantly chooses Shakuras Plateau as the next map and loads up whatever version before an MLG admin gets to the booth. One of the players said they needed to go to the toilet but the admins said they had to go now. Game starts, Tastosis still on screen they realise they have to pause as Naniwa hasn't done anything for a full in game minute, he then goes to the toilet. NesTea is rather annoyed as he was ready to go, coach says he can use the toilet as well if he wants but he doesn't want his thought process interrupted, as Naniwa is taking so long he decides to go anyway. As Naniwa hadn't done anything in game they decide to start from scratch. Naniwa gets back to his booth first and decides to fire up the replay of the last game to see where NesTea spawned and what his strategy was. MLG officials tell him he can't do that but by the time they get in the booth he's already done it. Game restarts and Naniwas probe gets to cross position but doesn't find NesTea there. Despite it stating on the MLG website under the sc2 tournament map rules that this map has the same spawn positions as the ladder version AND Naniwa choosing the map before an admin could even get to his booth he pauses the game and kicks up a fuss saying the map is wrong and the admin said it was cross spawns only. Admins aren't really sure what they can do as he's typing this all on screen so crowd can see it (you can hear the booing if you watch the stream back) and it looks pretty bad for them even if none of it is true. Officials tell him he can't restart and the map isn't wrong so he types out the "oh this tournament is bullshit, give me a moment to think" stuff. Naniwa is very angry and then his team coach (who has obviously been able to see what NesTea was doing in game up to this point) enters Naniwas booth with the game paused at 1:47 on the clock and talks to him. NesTea is sitting in his booth on his own and the match finally resumes (not reset - RESUMES) at least ten minutes after it was meant to have started with Naniwa having seen NesTeas opening on the first attempt to play the map and then been told it by his coach on the second attempt to play it. Sources: MLG Sundance: http://www.reddit.com/user/sundancedSpectator: http://www.reddit.com/user/NaNiWaisnotBMFrankly that, followed by his little ceremony is pretty awful from Complexity and Naniwa and the fact he only got one technical foul when you look at that in the cold light of day is really poor from MLG. It was not MLGs fault that Naniwa did not remember (or was not told by complexity staff) the map rules for the tournament and the fact he then stalled out one game after beign told by an admin they had to start, watched a replay of one attempt to play a game and then forced a pause in the second attempt of the game and got to talk to his coach essentially mid game is beyond bad and I fully understand why NesTea and the IM coach are so angry. I'd almost go as far to say there have to be enough infringements that NesTea deserved a win by default for the third game of the series... EDIT: you can watch the whole thing back on the MLG site, NesTea wins game 2 at 9:36:40
That's very unprofessional from naniwa. I think he should have been banned from this tournament for all those things. Watching replay when not allowed, talking to his coach during the game, not reading rules which says that shakuras positions are not only cross and shitting on MLG.. And then he gives nestea a thumbs down after the game? Really?
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On November 20 2011 18:21 mvtaylor wrote:
Frankly that, followed by his little ceremony is pretty awful from Complexity and Naniwa and the fact he only got one technical foul when you look at that in the cold light of day is really poor from MLG. It was not MLGs fault that Naniwa did not remember (or was not told by complexity staff) the map rules for the tournament and the fact he then stalled out one game after beign told by an admin they had to start, watched a replay of one attempt to play a game and then forced a pause in the second attempt of the game and got to talk to his coach essentially mid game is beyond bad and I fully understand why NesTea and the IM coach are so angry.
I'd almost go as far to say there have to be enough infringements that NesTea deserved a win by default for the third game of the series...
Oh boy, here we go again...
1. What Sundance said does not prove that Naniwa wasn't told by an admin that it was cross position only.
2. Naniwa wasn't given a technical foul in the end (although he probably should have been given one for his anti-MLG comment)
3. There is so much confusion over what happened. One spectator claims that Game 1 was started while an admin was still in Naniwa's booth which meant that the game had to be paused. http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/mimi3/whats_happening_with_naniwa_vs_nestea/c318hvn
4. If Naniwa had infringed on any rules in the MLG, it is the responsibility of MLG to disqualify/penalize him. The fact that they didn't and even let the Complexity manager talk to him either shows that they admit that Naniwa had a point OR they're just incompetent at refereeing.
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One of the pillars of sports in GENERAL is having good sportsmanship. Sportsmanship heavily relies on mutual respect and fair play, and in all honesty, I think eSports isn't ready to have that yet.
But just to add, in my personal opinion, whenever there is a dispute between an official and a player, a re-game should always be done.
Just another thing to add, since when was it fair to have a coach enter a booth when the match has already begun regardless of the game being paused? This has certainly never happened in Broodwar :/
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Always more drama when I go to bed 
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On November 20 2011 18:17 Grend wrote:
so weird that people start fighting whenever foreigners beat the koreans. Should be more celebration imo.
You do not have to be korean to have solid play!
because certain events took place during the match that may have infringed on rules and allowed Naniwa an unfair advantage. just because it's a foreigner victory, it doesn't mean we should just plug our ears and sweep things under the rug.
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EPT
