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Thread unlocked. Please THINK before you post, and rest assured that ANY infringement of the rules will be dealt with severely.
NO caster bashing
NO balance whine
NO player bashing
NO bad manner of any sort
Thanks!
- riptide |
On November 20 2011 18:56 mvtaylor wrote:http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/competitions/25#event_54_event_rulesGameplay 1. Players may Pause a Game if they have their Referee’s permission or if they have agreed to a Pause of the Game with their opponent in in-game chat. Referees may approve or deny a Player’s request to Pause a Game. Pausing a Game without Referee’s or opposing Player’s permission will result in a Warning. Each subsequent Warning that a Player receives will result in a Forfeit of the Game (See Equipment Rule #18 & Gameplay Rule #19).
A lot of people pause the game in MLGs without refs permission for very legitimate concerns such as equipment failure or map issues. I'm sure there have been a lot of non-permitted pauses in MLG history before. MLG in fact are quite notorious for not strictly enforcing their rules.
8. Conduct and Decisions
"Players must conduct themselves in a reasonable manner, maintaining a friendly and polite demeanor to competitors, the Pro Circuit officials, and to other Players of the Pro Circuit. Players who violate any rule, gain unfair advantage in participating in the Pro Circuit, or obtain winner status using fraudulent means will be disqualified. Unsportsmanlike, disruptive, annoying, harassing or threatening behavior is prohibited. MLG will interpret these rules and resolve any disputes, conflicting claims or ambiguities concerning the rules or the Pro Circuit and MLG's decisions concerning such disputes shall be final"
Yes. He should be punished for insulting MLG. There's no denying that. However MLG have probably resolved it with his management and settled it.
So that's two rules right there. And as for the admin telling him it was cross spawns only I really do not buy for one second that an admin who has been doing this for two days (and the entire tournament previous to this) forgets what the spawns are.
It's your word against his. Until proven guilty, you can't make this accusation.
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On November 20 2011 18:55 pdd wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 18:50 Zalithian wrote:On November 20 2011 18:49 pdd wrote:On November 20 2011 18:47 LeaD wrote:On November 20 2011 18:42 pdd wrote:On November 20 2011 18:27 LeaD wrote:On November 20 2011 18:21 mvtaylor wrote:Story goes: Naniwa loses game two and instantly chooses Shakuras Plateau as the next map and loads up whatever version before an MLG admin gets to the booth. One of the players said they needed to go to the toilet but the admins said they had to go now. Game starts, Tastosis still on screen they realise they have to pause as Naniwa hasn't done anything for a full in game minute, he then goes to the toilet. NesTea is rather annoyed as he was ready to go, coach says he can use the toilet as well if he wants but he doesn't want his thought process interrupted, as Naniwa is taking so long he decides to go anyway. As Naniwa hadn't done anything in game they decide to start from scratch. Naniwa gets back to his booth first and decides to fire up the replay of the last game to see where NesTea spawned and what his strategy was. MLG officials tell him he can't do that but by the time they get in the booth he's already done it. Game restarts and Naniwas probe gets to cross position but doesn't find NesTea there. Despite it stating on the MLG website under the sc2 tournament map rules that this map has the same spawn positions as the ladder version AND Naniwa choosing the map before an admin could even get to his booth he pauses the game and kicks up a fuss saying the map is wrong and the admin said it was cross spawns only. Admins aren't really sure what they can do as he's typing this all on screen so crowd can see it (you can hear the booing if you watch the stream back) and it looks pretty bad for them even if none of it is true. Officials tell him he can't restart and the map isn't wrong so he types out the "oh this tournament is bullshit, give me a moment to think" stuff. Naniwa is very angry and then his team coach (who has obviously been able to see what NesTea was doing in game up to this point) enters Naniwas booth with the game paused at 1:47 on the clock and talks to him. NesTea is sitting in his booth on his own and the match finally resumes (not reset - RESUMES) at least ten minutes after it was meant to have started with Naniwa having seen NesTeas opening on the first attempt to play the map and then been told it by his coach on the second attempt to play it. Sources: MLG Sundance: http://www.reddit.com/user/sundancedSpectator: http://www.reddit.com/user/NaNiWaisnotBMFrankly that, followed by his little ceremony is pretty awful from Complexity and Naniwa and the fact he only got one technical foul when you look at that in the cold light of day is really poor from MLG. It was not MLGs fault that Naniwa did not remember (or was not told by complexity staff) the map rules for the tournament and the fact he then stalled out one game after beign told by an admin they had to start, watched a replay of one attempt to play a game and then forced a pause in the second attempt of the game and got to talk to his coach essentially mid game is beyond bad and I fully understand why NesTea and the IM coach are so angry. I'd almost go as far to say there have to be enough infringements that NesTea deserved a win by default for the third game of the series... EDIT: you can watch the whole thing back on the MLG site, NesTea wins game 2 at 9:36:40 Should make a post on this in the general forum to make sure the right people do get to see it and investigate it more thoroughly. I don't know if this all true, but it's worth looking into for MLG. Just should probably make sure to tell people none of that is confirmed (or I don't think it is) and to not make rash judgments before the information is out. On November 20 2011 18:26 Patriot.dlk wrote:
Holy shit that sounds terrible mvtaylor... Sounds like a disqualification to me.
edit: and by the game description he probably would have won anyways whiteout the bullshit so it's just bad for him giving his own win some smudge. On November 20 2011 18:41 Lysanias wrote:On November 20 2011 18:21 mvtaylor wrote:Story goes: Naniwa loses game two and instantly chooses Shakuras Plateau as the next map and loads up whatever version before an MLG admin gets to the booth. One of the players said they needed to go to the toilet but the admins said they had to go now. Game starts, Tastosis still on screen they realise they have to pause as Naniwa hasn't done anything for a full in game minute, he then goes to the toilet. NesTea is rather annoyed as he was ready to go, coach says he can use the toilet as well if he wants but he doesn't want his thought process interrupted, as Naniwa is taking so long he decides to go anyway. As Naniwa hadn't done anything in game they decide to start from scratch. Naniwa gets back to his booth first and decides to fire up the replay of the last game to see where NesTea spawned and what his strategy was. MLG officials tell him he can't do that but by the time they get in the booth he's already done it. Game restarts and Naniwas probe gets to cross position but doesn't find NesTea there. Despite it stating on the MLG website under the sc2 tournament map rules that this map has the same spawn positions as the ladder version AND Naniwa choosing the map before an admin could even get to his booth he pauses the game and kicks up a fuss saying the map is wrong and the admin said it was cross spawns only. Admins aren't really sure what they can do as he's typing this all on screen so crowd can see it (you can hear the booing if you watch the stream back) and it looks pretty bad for them even if none of it is true. Officials tell him he can't restart and the map isn't wrong so he types out the "oh this tournament is bullshit, give me a moment to think" stuff. Naniwa is very angry and then his team coach (who has obviously been able to see what NesTea was doing in game up to this point) enters Naniwas booth with the game paused at 1:47 on the clock and talks to him. NesTea is sitting in his booth on his own and the match finally resumes (not reset - RESUMES) at least ten minutes after it was meant to have started with Naniwa having seen NesTeas opening on the first attempt to play the map and then been told it by his coach on the second attempt to play it. Sources: MLG Sundance: http://www.reddit.com/user/sundancedSpectator: http://www.reddit.com/user/NaNiWaisnotBMFrankly that, followed by his little ceremony is pretty awful from Complexity and Naniwa and the fact he only got one technical foul when you look at that in the cold light of day is really poor from MLG. It was not MLGs fault that Naniwa did not remember (or was not told by complexity staff) the map rules for the tournament and the fact he then stalled out one game after beign told by an admin they had to start, watched a replay of one attempt to play a game and then forced a pause in the second attempt of the game and got to talk to his coach essentially mid game is beyond bad and I fully understand why NesTea and the IM coach are so angry. I'd almost go as far to say there have to be enough infringements that NesTea deserved a win by default for the third game of the series... EDIT: you can watch the whole thing back on the MLG site, NesTea wins game 2 at 9:36:40 9:40:40 Tasteless realises something is wrong 9:45:20 Attempt to start the game, more problems, booing from audience, eventually Tastosis gets told whats up As far as sportsmanship goes this is proberly as low as you can get. This is very disipointing and i expect nothing less then MLG takes action to this. Do you guys not read the original sources? Or are you really going to depend on some guy's (relatively) biased summary of the posts? The conclusions mvtaylor make could turn out to be true, but there is NOTHING in the two posts that he links that proves that Naniwa did anything illegal (and by illegal I mean those not allowed by MLG rules). "Just should probably make sure to tell people none of that is confirmed (or I don't think it is) and to not make rash judgments before the information is out". I think it is relevant enough to at least post and hope that someone looks into it, maybe it's all a misunderstanding and we get some new information on the matter. Apparently Naniwa did another ComplexityInsider interview again today to clarify some of the stuff he said about Nestea (and maybe go through what happened during todays games). Should clear up stuff. You mean backtracking because people lashed out at him? I think that's what "clarify" means here. You've never made a slip of the tongue in your life eh?
"but apparently he is just a idiot."
"I don't think Nestea will go very far."
"joke tournament."
Another time in I believe the same interview he mentioned MVP and Nestea were easy wins. Too lazy to track those down. On top of his victory celebration thumbs downing Nestea as part of his "celebration." He also has history of bad manners/disrespecting opponents. I'm honestly pretty surprised so many people are blindly defending him.
All this stuff is clearly not a "slip of a tongue." Disrespectful player is still disrespectful. Shocker?
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On November 20 2011 18:42 pdd wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 18:27 LeaD wrote:On November 20 2011 18:21 mvtaylor wrote:Story goes: Naniwa loses game two and instantly chooses Shakuras Plateau as the next map and loads up whatever version before an MLG admin gets to the booth. One of the players said they needed to go to the toilet but the admins said they had to go now. Game starts, Tastosis still on screen they realise they have to pause as Naniwa hasn't done anything for a full in game minute, he then goes to the toilet. NesTea is rather annoyed as he was ready to go, coach says he can use the toilet as well if he wants but he doesn't want his thought process interrupted, as Naniwa is taking so long he decides to go anyway. As Naniwa hadn't done anything in game they decide to start from scratch. Naniwa gets back to his booth first and decides to fire up the replay of the last game to see where NesTea spawned and what his strategy was. MLG officials tell him he can't do that but by the time they get in the booth he's already done it. Game restarts and Naniwas probe gets to cross position but doesn't find NesTea there. Despite it stating on the MLG website under the sc2 tournament map rules that this map has the same spawn positions as the ladder version AND Naniwa choosing the map before an admin could even get to his booth he pauses the game and kicks up a fuss saying the map is wrong and the admin said it was cross spawns only. Admins aren't really sure what they can do as he's typing this all on screen so crowd can see it (you can hear the booing if you watch the stream back) and it looks pretty bad for them even if none of it is true. Officials tell him he can't restart and the map isn't wrong so he types out the "oh this tournament is bullshit, give me a moment to think" stuff. Naniwa is very angry and then his team coach (who has obviously been able to see what NesTea was doing in game up to this point) enters Naniwas booth with the game paused at 1:47 on the clock and talks to him. NesTea is sitting in his booth on his own and the match finally resumes (not reset - RESUMES) at least ten minutes after it was meant to have started with Naniwa having seen NesTeas opening on the first attempt to play the map and then been told it by his coach on the second attempt to play it. Sources: MLG Sundance: http://www.reddit.com/user/sundancedSpectator: http://www.reddit.com/user/NaNiWaisnotBMFrankly that, followed by his little ceremony is pretty awful from Complexity and Naniwa and the fact he only got one technical foul when you look at that in the cold light of day is really poor from MLG. It was not MLGs fault that Naniwa did not remember (or was not told by complexity staff) the map rules for the tournament and the fact he then stalled out one game after beign told by an admin they had to start, watched a replay of one attempt to play a game and then forced a pause in the second attempt of the game and got to talk to his coach essentially mid game is beyond bad and I fully understand why NesTea and the IM coach are so angry. I'd almost go as far to say there have to be enough infringements that NesTea deserved a win by default for the third game of the series... EDIT: you can watch the whole thing back on the MLG site, NesTea wins game 2 at 9:36:40 Should make a post on this in the general forum to make sure the right people do get to see it and investigate it more thoroughly. I don't know if this all true, but it's worth looking into for MLG. Just should probably make sure to tell people none of that is confirmed (or I don't think it is) and to not make rash judgments before the information is out. Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 18:26 Patriot.dlk wrote:
Holy shit that sounds terrible mvtaylor... Sounds like a disqualification to me.
edit: and by the game description he probably would have won anyways whiteout the bullshit so it's just bad for him giving his own win some smudge. Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 18:41 Lysanias wrote:On November 20 2011 18:21 mvtaylor wrote:Story goes: Naniwa loses game two and instantly chooses Shakuras Plateau as the next map and loads up whatever version before an MLG admin gets to the booth. One of the players said they needed to go to the toilet but the admins said they had to go now. Game starts, Tastosis still on screen they realise they have to pause as Naniwa hasn't done anything for a full in game minute, he then goes to the toilet. NesTea is rather annoyed as he was ready to go, coach says he can use the toilet as well if he wants but he doesn't want his thought process interrupted, as Naniwa is taking so long he decides to go anyway. As Naniwa hadn't done anything in game they decide to start from scratch. Naniwa gets back to his booth first and decides to fire up the replay of the last game to see where NesTea spawned and what his strategy was. MLG officials tell him he can't do that but by the time they get in the booth he's already done it. Game restarts and Naniwas probe gets to cross position but doesn't find NesTea there. Despite it stating on the MLG website under the sc2 tournament map rules that this map has the same spawn positions as the ladder version AND Naniwa choosing the map before an admin could even get to his booth he pauses the game and kicks up a fuss saying the map is wrong and the admin said it was cross spawns only. Admins aren't really sure what they can do as he's typing this all on screen so crowd can see it (you can hear the booing if you watch the stream back) and it looks pretty bad for them even if none of it is true. Officials tell him he can't restart and the map isn't wrong so he types out the "oh this tournament is bullshit, give me a moment to think" stuff. Naniwa is very angry and then his team coach (who has obviously been able to see what NesTea was doing in game up to this point) enters Naniwas booth with the game paused at 1:47 on the clock and talks to him. NesTea is sitting in his booth on his own and the match finally resumes (not reset - RESUMES) at least ten minutes after it was meant to have started with Naniwa having seen NesTeas opening on the first attempt to play the map and then been told it by his coach on the second attempt to play it. Sources: MLG Sundance: http://www.reddit.com/user/sundancedSpectator: http://www.reddit.com/user/NaNiWaisnotBMFrankly that, followed by his little ceremony is pretty awful from Complexity and Naniwa and the fact he only got one technical foul when you look at that in the cold light of day is really poor from MLG. It was not MLGs fault that Naniwa did not remember (or was not told by complexity staff) the map rules for the tournament and the fact he then stalled out one game after beign told by an admin they had to start, watched a replay of one attempt to play a game and then forced a pause in the second attempt of the game and got to talk to his coach essentially mid game is beyond bad and I fully understand why NesTea and the IM coach are so angry. I'd almost go as far to say there have to be enough infringements that NesTea deserved a win by default for the third game of the series... EDIT: you can watch the whole thing back on the MLG site, NesTea wins game 2 at 9:36:40 9:40:40 Tasteless realises something is wrong 9:45:20 Attempt to start the game, more problems, booing from audience, eventually Tastosis gets told whats up As far as sportsmanship goes this is proberly as low as you can get. This is very disipointing and i expect nothing less then MLG takes action to this. Do you guys not read the original sources? Or are you really going to depend on some guy's (relatively) biased summary of the posts? The conclusions mvtaylor make could turn out to be true, but there is NOTHING in the two posts that he links that proves that Naniwa did anything illegal (and by illegal I mean those not allowed by MLG rules). There is only one thing which Naniwa did which should be punished: Insulting MLG. Watching the replay was not illegal (it was probably unethical, but MLGs allow the viewing of replays after a game, so Naniwa may have assumed watching a replay of an unfinished game was legal too).
maybe not illegal but it certainly deligitimizes his win. allowing complexity's player manager to enter the booth in the middle of the game to "relay" some messages is ridiculous. IM clearly did not make the naive assumption that all he did was relay that message and they shouldn't. Maybe that's why the coach and Nestea are so pissed.
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On November 20 2011 19:04 Zalithian wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 18:55 pdd wrote:On November 20 2011 18:50 Zalithian wrote:On November 20 2011 18:49 pdd wrote:On November 20 2011 18:47 LeaD wrote:On November 20 2011 18:42 pdd wrote:On November 20 2011 18:27 LeaD wrote:On November 20 2011 18:21 mvtaylor wrote:Story goes: Naniwa loses game two and instantly chooses Shakuras Plateau as the next map and loads up whatever version before an MLG admin gets to the booth. One of the players said they needed to go to the toilet but the admins said they had to go now. Game starts, Tastosis still on screen they realise they have to pause as Naniwa hasn't done anything for a full in game minute, he then goes to the toilet. NesTea is rather annoyed as he was ready to go, coach says he can use the toilet as well if he wants but he doesn't want his thought process interrupted, as Naniwa is taking so long he decides to go anyway. As Naniwa hadn't done anything in game they decide to start from scratch. Naniwa gets back to his booth first and decides to fire up the replay of the last game to see where NesTea spawned and what his strategy was. MLG officials tell him he can't do that but by the time they get in the booth he's already done it. Game restarts and Naniwas probe gets to cross position but doesn't find NesTea there. Despite it stating on the MLG website under the sc2 tournament map rules that this map has the same spawn positions as the ladder version AND Naniwa choosing the map before an admin could even get to his booth he pauses the game and kicks up a fuss saying the map is wrong and the admin said it was cross spawns only. Admins aren't really sure what they can do as he's typing this all on screen so crowd can see it (you can hear the booing if you watch the stream back) and it looks pretty bad for them even if none of it is true. Officials tell him he can't restart and the map isn't wrong so he types out the "oh this tournament is bullshit, give me a moment to think" stuff. Naniwa is very angry and then his team coach (who has obviously been able to see what NesTea was doing in game up to this point) enters Naniwas booth with the game paused at 1:47 on the clock and talks to him. NesTea is sitting in his booth on his own and the match finally resumes (not reset - RESUMES) at least ten minutes after it was meant to have started with Naniwa having seen NesTeas opening on the first attempt to play the map and then been told it by his coach on the second attempt to play it. Sources: MLG Sundance: http://www.reddit.com/user/sundancedSpectator: http://www.reddit.com/user/NaNiWaisnotBMFrankly that, followed by his little ceremony is pretty awful from Complexity and Naniwa and the fact he only got one technical foul when you look at that in the cold light of day is really poor from MLG. It was not MLGs fault that Naniwa did not remember (or was not told by complexity staff) the map rules for the tournament and the fact he then stalled out one game after beign told by an admin they had to start, watched a replay of one attempt to play a game and then forced a pause in the second attempt of the game and got to talk to his coach essentially mid game is beyond bad and I fully understand why NesTea and the IM coach are so angry. I'd almost go as far to say there have to be enough infringements that NesTea deserved a win by default for the third game of the series... EDIT: you can watch the whole thing back on the MLG site, NesTea wins game 2 at 9:36:40 Should make a post on this in the general forum to make sure the right people do get to see it and investigate it more thoroughly. I don't know if this all true, but it's worth looking into for MLG. Just should probably make sure to tell people none of that is confirmed (or I don't think it is) and to not make rash judgments before the information is out. On November 20 2011 18:26 Patriot.dlk wrote:
Holy shit that sounds terrible mvtaylor... Sounds like a disqualification to me.
edit: and by the game description he probably would have won anyways whiteout the bullshit so it's just bad for him giving his own win some smudge. On November 20 2011 18:41 Lysanias wrote:On November 20 2011 18:21 mvtaylor wrote:Story goes: Naniwa loses game two and instantly chooses Shakuras Plateau as the next map and loads up whatever version before an MLG admin gets to the booth. One of the players said they needed to go to the toilet but the admins said they had to go now. Game starts, Tastosis still on screen they realise they have to pause as Naniwa hasn't done anything for a full in game minute, he then goes to the toilet. NesTea is rather annoyed as he was ready to go, coach says he can use the toilet as well if he wants but he doesn't want his thought process interrupted, as Naniwa is taking so long he decides to go anyway. As Naniwa hadn't done anything in game they decide to start from scratch. Naniwa gets back to his booth first and decides to fire up the replay of the last game to see where NesTea spawned and what his strategy was. MLG officials tell him he can't do that but by the time they get in the booth he's already done it. Game restarts and Naniwas probe gets to cross position but doesn't find NesTea there. Despite it stating on the MLG website under the sc2 tournament map rules that this map has the same spawn positions as the ladder version AND Naniwa choosing the map before an admin could even get to his booth he pauses the game and kicks up a fuss saying the map is wrong and the admin said it was cross spawns only. Admins aren't really sure what they can do as he's typing this all on screen so crowd can see it (you can hear the booing if you watch the stream back) and it looks pretty bad for them even if none of it is true. Officials tell him he can't restart and the map isn't wrong so he types out the "oh this tournament is bullshit, give me a moment to think" stuff. Naniwa is very angry and then his team coach (who has obviously been able to see what NesTea was doing in game up to this point) enters Naniwas booth with the game paused at 1:47 on the clock and talks to him. NesTea is sitting in his booth on his own and the match finally resumes (not reset - RESUMES) at least ten minutes after it was meant to have started with Naniwa having seen NesTeas opening on the first attempt to play the map and then been told it by his coach on the second attempt to play it. Sources: MLG Sundance: http://www.reddit.com/user/sundancedSpectator: http://www.reddit.com/user/NaNiWaisnotBMFrankly that, followed by his little ceremony is pretty awful from Complexity and Naniwa and the fact he only got one technical foul when you look at that in the cold light of day is really poor from MLG. It was not MLGs fault that Naniwa did not remember (or was not told by complexity staff) the map rules for the tournament and the fact he then stalled out one game after beign told by an admin they had to start, watched a replay of one attempt to play a game and then forced a pause in the second attempt of the game and got to talk to his coach essentially mid game is beyond bad and I fully understand why NesTea and the IM coach are so angry. I'd almost go as far to say there have to be enough infringements that NesTea deserved a win by default for the third game of the series... EDIT: you can watch the whole thing back on the MLG site, NesTea wins game 2 at 9:36:40 9:40:40 Tasteless realises something is wrong 9:45:20 Attempt to start the game, more problems, booing from audience, eventually Tastosis gets told whats up As far as sportsmanship goes this is proberly as low as you can get. This is very disipointing and i expect nothing less then MLG takes action to this. Do you guys not read the original sources? Or are you really going to depend on some guy's (relatively) biased summary of the posts? The conclusions mvtaylor make could turn out to be true, but there is NOTHING in the two posts that he links that proves that Naniwa did anything illegal (and by illegal I mean those not allowed by MLG rules). "Just should probably make sure to tell people none of that is confirmed (or I don't think it is) and to not make rash judgments before the information is out". I think it is relevant enough to at least post and hope that someone looks into it, maybe it's all a misunderstanding and we get some new information on the matter. Apparently Naniwa did another ComplexityInsider interview again today to clarify some of the stuff he said about Nestea (and maybe go through what happened during todays games). Should clear up stuff. You mean backtracking because people lashed out at him? I think that's what "clarify" means here. You've never made a slip of the tongue in your life eh? "but apparently he is just a idiot." "I don't think Nestea will go very far." "joke tournament." Another time in I believe the same interview he mentioned MVP and Nestea were easy wins. Too lazy to track those down. On top of his victory celebration thumbs downing Nestea as part of his "celebration." He also has history of bad manners/disrespecting opponents. I'm honestly pretty surprised so many people are blindly defending him. All this stuff is clearly not a "slip of a tongue." Disrespectful player is still disrespectful. Shocker?
Obviously it will sound disrespectful if you take it out of context. Way to go bud.
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Sigh, let's face it... MLG won't do anything, I just needed some time to kill before IPL4 qualifier at i44 kicked off, which it now has... DeMu fighting?
http://www.twitch.tv/multiplay2
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Just let Naniwa be the brat if he wants to. I frankly dont care at all.
Whats bothers me is people taking offence by a high school dropout calling them "loser" and "moron" and stuff like that.
Stop crying all and just play 
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On November 20 2011 19:05 Sneakyz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 19:04 Zalithian wrote:On November 20 2011 18:55 pdd wrote:On November 20 2011 18:50 Zalithian wrote:On November 20 2011 18:49 pdd wrote:On November 20 2011 18:47 LeaD wrote:On November 20 2011 18:42 pdd wrote:On November 20 2011 18:27 LeaD wrote:On November 20 2011 18:21 mvtaylor wrote:Story goes: Naniwa loses game two and instantly chooses Shakuras Plateau as the next map and loads up whatever version before an MLG admin gets to the booth. One of the players said they needed to go to the toilet but the admins said they had to go now. Game starts, Tastosis still on screen they realise they have to pause as Naniwa hasn't done anything for a full in game minute, he then goes to the toilet. NesTea is rather annoyed as he was ready to go, coach says he can use the toilet as well if he wants but he doesn't want his thought process interrupted, as Naniwa is taking so long he decides to go anyway. As Naniwa hadn't done anything in game they decide to start from scratch. Naniwa gets back to his booth first and decides to fire up the replay of the last game to see where NesTea spawned and what his strategy was. MLG officials tell him he can't do that but by the time they get in the booth he's already done it. Game restarts and Naniwas probe gets to cross position but doesn't find NesTea there. Despite it stating on the MLG website under the sc2 tournament map rules that this map has the same spawn positions as the ladder version AND Naniwa choosing the map before an admin could even get to his booth he pauses the game and kicks up a fuss saying the map is wrong and the admin said it was cross spawns only. Admins aren't really sure what they can do as he's typing this all on screen so crowd can see it (you can hear the booing if you watch the stream back) and it looks pretty bad for them even if none of it is true. Officials tell him he can't restart and the map isn't wrong so he types out the "oh this tournament is bullshit, give me a moment to think" stuff. Naniwa is very angry and then his team coach (who has obviously been able to see what NesTea was doing in game up to this point) enters Naniwas booth with the game paused at 1:47 on the clock and talks to him. NesTea is sitting in his booth on his own and the match finally resumes (not reset - RESUMES) at least ten minutes after it was meant to have started with Naniwa having seen NesTeas opening on the first attempt to play the map and then been told it by his coach on the second attempt to play it. Sources: MLG Sundance: http://www.reddit.com/user/sundancedSpectator: http://www.reddit.com/user/NaNiWaisnotBMFrankly that, followed by his little ceremony is pretty awful from Complexity and Naniwa and the fact he only got one technical foul when you look at that in the cold light of day is really poor from MLG. It was not MLGs fault that Naniwa did not remember (or was not told by complexity staff) the map rules for the tournament and the fact he then stalled out one game after beign told by an admin they had to start, watched a replay of one attempt to play a game and then forced a pause in the second attempt of the game and got to talk to his coach essentially mid game is beyond bad and I fully understand why NesTea and the IM coach are so angry. I'd almost go as far to say there have to be enough infringements that NesTea deserved a win by default for the third game of the series... EDIT: you can watch the whole thing back on the MLG site, NesTea wins game 2 at 9:36:40 Should make a post on this in the general forum to make sure the right people do get to see it and investigate it more thoroughly. I don't know if this all true, but it's worth looking into for MLG. Just should probably make sure to tell people none of that is confirmed (or I don't think it is) and to not make rash judgments before the information is out. On November 20 2011 18:26 Patriot.dlk wrote:
Holy shit that sounds terrible mvtaylor... Sounds like a disqualification to me.
edit: and by the game description he probably would have won anyways whiteout the bullshit so it's just bad for him giving his own win some smudge. On November 20 2011 18:41 Lysanias wrote:On November 20 2011 18:21 mvtaylor wrote:Story goes: Naniwa loses game two and instantly chooses Shakuras Plateau as the next map and loads up whatever version before an MLG admin gets to the booth. One of the players said they needed to go to the toilet but the admins said they had to go now. Game starts, Tastosis still on screen they realise they have to pause as Naniwa hasn't done anything for a full in game minute, he then goes to the toilet. NesTea is rather annoyed as he was ready to go, coach says he can use the toilet as well if he wants but he doesn't want his thought process interrupted, as Naniwa is taking so long he decides to go anyway. As Naniwa hadn't done anything in game they decide to start from scratch. Naniwa gets back to his booth first and decides to fire up the replay of the last game to see where NesTea spawned and what his strategy was. MLG officials tell him he can't do that but by the time they get in the booth he's already done it. Game restarts and Naniwas probe gets to cross position but doesn't find NesTea there. Despite it stating on the MLG website under the sc2 tournament map rules that this map has the same spawn positions as the ladder version AND Naniwa choosing the map before an admin could even get to his booth he pauses the game and kicks up a fuss saying the map is wrong and the admin said it was cross spawns only. Admins aren't really sure what they can do as he's typing this all on screen so crowd can see it (you can hear the booing if you watch the stream back) and it looks pretty bad for them even if none of it is true. Officials tell him he can't restart and the map isn't wrong so he types out the "oh this tournament is bullshit, give me a moment to think" stuff. Naniwa is very angry and then his team coach (who has obviously been able to see what NesTea was doing in game up to this point) enters Naniwas booth with the game paused at 1:47 on the clock and talks to him. NesTea is sitting in his booth on his own and the match finally resumes (not reset - RESUMES) at least ten minutes after it was meant to have started with Naniwa having seen NesTeas opening on the first attempt to play the map and then been told it by his coach on the second attempt to play it. Sources: MLG Sundance: http://www.reddit.com/user/sundancedSpectator: http://www.reddit.com/user/NaNiWaisnotBMFrankly that, followed by his little ceremony is pretty awful from Complexity and Naniwa and the fact he only got one technical foul when you look at that in the cold light of day is really poor from MLG. It was not MLGs fault that Naniwa did not remember (or was not told by complexity staff) the map rules for the tournament and the fact he then stalled out one game after beign told by an admin they had to start, watched a replay of one attempt to play a game and then forced a pause in the second attempt of the game and got to talk to his coach essentially mid game is beyond bad and I fully understand why NesTea and the IM coach are so angry. I'd almost go as far to say there have to be enough infringements that NesTea deserved a win by default for the third game of the series... EDIT: you can watch the whole thing back on the MLG site, NesTea wins game 2 at 9:36:40 9:40:40 Tasteless realises something is wrong 9:45:20 Attempt to start the game, more problems, booing from audience, eventually Tastosis gets told whats up As far as sportsmanship goes this is proberly as low as you can get. This is very disipointing and i expect nothing less then MLG takes action to this. Do you guys not read the original sources? Or are you really going to depend on some guy's (relatively) biased summary of the posts? The conclusions mvtaylor make could turn out to be true, but there is NOTHING in the two posts that he links that proves that Naniwa did anything illegal (and by illegal I mean those not allowed by MLG rules). "Just should probably make sure to tell people none of that is confirmed (or I don't think it is) and to not make rash judgments before the information is out". I think it is relevant enough to at least post and hope that someone looks into it, maybe it's all a misunderstanding and we get some new information on the matter. Apparently Naniwa did another ComplexityInsider interview again today to clarify some of the stuff he said about Nestea (and maybe go through what happened during todays games). Should clear up stuff. You mean backtracking because people lashed out at him? I think that's what "clarify" means here. You've never made a slip of the tongue in your life eh? "but apparently he is just a idiot." "I don't think Nestea will go very far." "joke tournament." Another time in I believe the same interview he mentioned MVP and Nestea were easy wins. Too lazy to track those down. On top of his victory celebration thumbs downing Nestea as part of his "celebration." He also has history of bad manners/disrespecting opponents. I'm honestly pretty surprised so many people are blindly defending him. All this stuff is clearly not a "slip of a tongue." Disrespectful player is still disrespectful. Shocker? Obviously it will sound disrespectful if you take it out of context. Way to go bud.
Are you going to refute any of this? Because saying "way to go bud" isn't adding anything. Did I take out of context him thumbing down Nestea? I won't mention his personal life because I don't think it's appropriate, even though it strengthens my point.
Official ESL statement:
"On its last playday we had to disqualify the first StarCraft II participant of our European Championship. Johan 'Naniwa' Lucchesi accumulated too many penalty points before he was able to play his second match. He rescheduled two of his matches much too late for three times. This caused 12 minor penalties and 2 major for Empire.Nani. Therefore he is disqualified from Intel Extreme Masters Season 5. All of his matches, given penalty points and wildcards used by his opponents have been nullified."
"On 27 of October ESL announced Naniwa was no longer part of the ESL Pro Series Germany Season 17 due to too many penalty points. Before being banned Naniwa was in third place behind Goody and DeMusliM. According to the official statement Naniwa was missing professionalism as he showed up late to ESL TV Matches and missed to upload replays among other things. Due to EPS 17 rulebook, Naniwa is no longer allowed to compete in the ESL Pro Series season 17 and all of his matches will also be nullified. In addition, he will also be banned from the upcoming EPS season 18." (liquipedia) - http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Naniwa
Here's a quote from Naniwa himself. "I have [tried to stop] but it's just so many things happening in my life, and I take the anger out on the opponents."
(http://www.gosugamers.net/warcraft/news/7774)
Sounds like a class act, and this is surely just a misunderstanding. I bet I'm "taking all the stuff out of context."
Get real. I'm no longer interested in discussing this as I think I have presented sufficient information for my side. If you want to keep white knighting Naniwa, feel free.
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Murloc MC, great stuff ...
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Naniwa's coach/manager in the booth while in game is in pause for me looks like this alone is cheating. He could have easily said that nestea is on 14 supply without pool, that alone says so much for protoss. Of course we don't know for sure, but imo game should have been replayed or win given to nestea.
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omg. some of us just loves drama... some post are reading like i was watching some soap opera.
chill the f..k out. None of you knows whole story behind all of this. So don't speculate, because it is just plain stupid.
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On November 20 2011 19:10 Zalithian wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 19:05 Sneakyz wrote:On November 20 2011 19:04 Zalithian wrote:On November 20 2011 18:55 pdd wrote:On November 20 2011 18:50 Zalithian wrote:On November 20 2011 18:49 pdd wrote:On November 20 2011 18:47 LeaD wrote:On November 20 2011 18:42 pdd wrote:On November 20 2011 18:27 LeaD wrote:On November 20 2011 18:21 mvtaylor wrote:Story goes: Naniwa loses game two and instantly chooses Shakuras Plateau as the next map and loads up whatever version before an MLG admin gets to the booth. One of the players said they needed to go to the toilet but the admins said they had to go now. Game starts, Tastosis still on screen they realise they have to pause as Naniwa hasn't done anything for a full in game minute, he then goes to the toilet. NesTea is rather annoyed as he was ready to go, coach says he can use the toilet as well if he wants but he doesn't want his thought process interrupted, as Naniwa is taking so long he decides to go anyway. As Naniwa hadn't done anything in game they decide to start from scratch. Naniwa gets back to his booth first and decides to fire up the replay of the last game to see where NesTea spawned and what his strategy was. MLG officials tell him he can't do that but by the time they get in the booth he's already done it. Game restarts and Naniwas probe gets to cross position but doesn't find NesTea there. Despite it stating on the MLG website under the sc2 tournament map rules that this map has the same spawn positions as the ladder version AND Naniwa choosing the map before an admin could even get to his booth he pauses the game and kicks up a fuss saying the map is wrong and the admin said it was cross spawns only. Admins aren't really sure what they can do as he's typing this all on screen so crowd can see it (you can hear the booing if you watch the stream back) and it looks pretty bad for them even if none of it is true. Officials tell him he can't restart and the map isn't wrong so he types out the "oh this tournament is bullshit, give me a moment to think" stuff. Naniwa is very angry and then his team coach (who has obviously been able to see what NesTea was doing in game up to this point) enters Naniwas booth with the game paused at 1:47 on the clock and talks to him. NesTea is sitting in his booth on his own and the match finally resumes (not reset - RESUMES) at least ten minutes after it was meant to have started with Naniwa having seen NesTeas opening on the first attempt to play the map and then been told it by his coach on the second attempt to play it. Sources: MLG Sundance: http://www.reddit.com/user/sundancedSpectator: http://www.reddit.com/user/NaNiWaisnotBMFrankly that, followed by his little ceremony is pretty awful from Complexity and Naniwa and the fact he only got one technical foul when you look at that in the cold light of day is really poor from MLG. It was not MLGs fault that Naniwa did not remember (or was not told by complexity staff) the map rules for the tournament and the fact he then stalled out one game after beign told by an admin they had to start, watched a replay of one attempt to play a game and then forced a pause in the second attempt of the game and got to talk to his coach essentially mid game is beyond bad and I fully understand why NesTea and the IM coach are so angry. I'd almost go as far to say there have to be enough infringements that NesTea deserved a win by default for the third game of the series... EDIT: you can watch the whole thing back on the MLG site, NesTea wins game 2 at 9:36:40 Should make a post on this in the general forum to make sure the right people do get to see it and investigate it more thoroughly. I don't know if this all true, but it's worth looking into for MLG. Just should probably make sure to tell people none of that is confirmed (or I don't think it is) and to not make rash judgments before the information is out. On November 20 2011 18:26 Patriot.dlk wrote:
Holy shit that sounds terrible mvtaylor... Sounds like a disqualification to me.
edit: and by the game description he probably would have won anyways whiteout the bullshit so it's just bad for him giving his own win some smudge. On November 20 2011 18:41 Lysanias wrote:On November 20 2011 18:21 mvtaylor wrote:Story goes: Naniwa loses game two and instantly chooses Shakuras Plateau as the next map and loads up whatever version before an MLG admin gets to the booth. One of the players said they needed to go to the toilet but the admins said they had to go now. Game starts, Tastosis still on screen they realise they have to pause as Naniwa hasn't done anything for a full in game minute, he then goes to the toilet. NesTea is rather annoyed as he was ready to go, coach says he can use the toilet as well if he wants but he doesn't want his thought process interrupted, as Naniwa is taking so long he decides to go anyway. As Naniwa hadn't done anything in game they decide to start from scratch. Naniwa gets back to his booth first and decides to fire up the replay of the last game to see where NesTea spawned and what his strategy was. MLG officials tell him he can't do that but by the time they get in the booth he's already done it. Game restarts and Naniwas probe gets to cross position but doesn't find NesTea there. Despite it stating on the MLG website under the sc2 tournament map rules that this map has the same spawn positions as the ladder version AND Naniwa choosing the map before an admin could even get to his booth he pauses the game and kicks up a fuss saying the map is wrong and the admin said it was cross spawns only. Admins aren't really sure what they can do as he's typing this all on screen so crowd can see it (you can hear the booing if you watch the stream back) and it looks pretty bad for them even if none of it is true. Officials tell him he can't restart and the map isn't wrong so he types out the "oh this tournament is bullshit, give me a moment to think" stuff. Naniwa is very angry and then his team coach (who has obviously been able to see what NesTea was doing in game up to this point) enters Naniwas booth with the game paused at 1:47 on the clock and talks to him. NesTea is sitting in his booth on his own and the match finally resumes (not reset - RESUMES) at least ten minutes after it was meant to have started with Naniwa having seen NesTeas opening on the first attempt to play the map and then been told it by his coach on the second attempt to play it. Sources: MLG Sundance: http://www.reddit.com/user/sundancedSpectator: http://www.reddit.com/user/NaNiWaisnotBMFrankly that, followed by his little ceremony is pretty awful from Complexity and Naniwa and the fact he only got one technical foul when you look at that in the cold light of day is really poor from MLG. It was not MLGs fault that Naniwa did not remember (or was not told by complexity staff) the map rules for the tournament and the fact he then stalled out one game after beign told by an admin they had to start, watched a replay of one attempt to play a game and then forced a pause in the second attempt of the game and got to talk to his coach essentially mid game is beyond bad and I fully understand why NesTea and the IM coach are so angry. I'd almost go as far to say there have to be enough infringements that NesTea deserved a win by default for the third game of the series... EDIT: you can watch the whole thing back on the MLG site, NesTea wins game 2 at 9:36:40 9:40:40 Tasteless realises something is wrong 9:45:20 Attempt to start the game, more problems, booing from audience, eventually Tastosis gets told whats up As far as sportsmanship goes this is proberly as low as you can get. This is very disipointing and i expect nothing less then MLG takes action to this. Do you guys not read the original sources? Or are you really going to depend on some guy's (relatively) biased summary of the posts? The conclusions mvtaylor make could turn out to be true, but there is NOTHING in the two posts that he links that proves that Naniwa did anything illegal (and by illegal I mean those not allowed by MLG rules). "Just should probably make sure to tell people none of that is confirmed (or I don't think it is) and to not make rash judgments before the information is out". I think it is relevant enough to at least post and hope that someone looks into it, maybe it's all a misunderstanding and we get some new information on the matter. Apparently Naniwa did another ComplexityInsider interview again today to clarify some of the stuff he said about Nestea (and maybe go through what happened during todays games). Should clear up stuff. You mean backtracking because people lashed out at him? I think that's what "clarify" means here. You've never made a slip of the tongue in your life eh? "but apparently he is just a idiot." "I don't think Nestea will go very far." "joke tournament." Another time in I believe the same interview he mentioned MVP and Nestea were easy wins. Too lazy to track those down. On top of his victory celebration thumbs downing Nestea as part of his "celebration." He also has history of bad manners/disrespecting opponents. I'm honestly pretty surprised so many people are blindly defending him. All this stuff is clearly not a "slip of a tongue." Disrespectful player is still disrespectful. Shocker? Obviously it will sound disrespectful if you take it out of context. Way to go bud. Are you going to refute any of this? Because saying "way to go bud" isn't adding anything. Did I take out of context him thumbing down Nestea? I won't mention his personal life because I don't think it's appropriate, even though it strengthens my point. Official ESL statement: "On its last playday we had to disqualify the first StarCraft II participant of our European Championship. Johan 'Naniwa' Lucchesi accumulated too many penalty points before he was able to play his second match. He rescheduled two of his matches much too late for three times. This caused 12 minor penalties and 2 major for Empire.Nani. Therefore he is disqualified from Intel Extreme Masters Season 5. All of his matches, given penalty points and wildcards used by his opponents have been nullified." "On 27 of October ESL announced Naniwa was no longer part of the ESL Pro Series Germany Season 17 due to too many penalty points. Before being banned Naniwa was in third place behind Goody and DeMusliM. According to the official statement Naniwa was missing professionalism as he showed up late to ESL TV Matches and missed to upload replays among other things. Due to EPS 17 rulebook, Naniwa is no longer allowed to compete in the ESL Pro Series season 17 and all of his matches will also be nullified. In addition, he will also be banned from the upcoming EPS season 18." (liquipedia) - http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/NaniwaSounds like a class act, and this is surely just a misunderstanding. I bet I'm "taking all the stuff out of context." Get real.
A tournament which occured over a year ago seems very relevant to this issue, indeed. You took both of the statements from the interview out of context yes First he said his first thought was Nestea was pulling his drones to a hidden expo, which would be ingenious, but he later found out he just pulled them which he thought was idiotic.
Second he just thought Nestea wouldn't go very far. What's even special about that? Personally I didn't think he would even make it out of the open bracket but he mostly played ZvZ so... He doesn't have the same winrate outside of gsl and he's faced him alot on ladder so most likely based on those two facts.
The other ones I won't comment on since I didn't even watch the games.
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Theoretically, they could replay Game 3 in the beginning of the last day, as no further matches of both players have happened yet, but they probably won't do it. I'm for it though, and it seems many people would appreciate a re-game in these circumstances. Moreover, if someone was in the place of Naniwa, and cared about their name, they would demand it too.
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Naniwa himself has admitted he's BM. I don't know what further proof anyone would require.
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On November 20 2011 17:22 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 17:18 LeaD wrote:On November 20 2011 17:08 babylon wrote:On November 20 2011 17:03 hunts wrote:On November 20 2011 16:56 DoomsVille wrote:On November 20 2011 16:52 LeaD wrote:On November 20 2011 16:48 MonkSEA wrote:On November 20 2011 16:34 Biane wrote:On November 20 2011 16:26 usethis2 wrote:
Well, after reading the detailed account @reddit, now my mind on Naniwa's behavior has changed once again. He may/may not have broke the rule (otherwise the admin would not have attempted to stop him from watching the replay), and the whole situation does indeed paint Naniwa a dick to me. Even if he did broke the rules (which as far as we can tell, he didn't), there will be people who find this inappropriate/unfair/whatever you want to call it. Even if he didn't broke the rule, it was a fact he called MLG a 'joke tournament' While he may not have done anything wrong/against the rules that requires him to 'defend himself', the fact he called MLG a joke tournament portrays himself in very, very poor image. Ignore all the fiddling before hand, and think of when the whole MLG joke tourny happened: Imagine this. You're up against the best zerg player in the world in many players minds. You're 1-1 against him, you losing your last map, so you get to choose. You were told that Shakura's was cross-position, and prepared a VERY specific build for this. You scout and find him not cross-position. Ok.. What the fuck do you think now? Your WHOLE game plan is ruined, your scout was meant to arrive and position the cheese, now that you have found out that this doesn't have forced cross-position spawns, your cheese will not work, and you've already ruined your plan for that game if it continues(in this case forge first instead of nexus). Think how you would feel when the admin came and told you that you must continue from this game, because the map is correct and forced cross-position spawns were removed in a previous tournament. Now, I don't know about you, but after being told that it was cross position only, preparing a cannon rush for it and then getting told by admins that you must continue from the current game.. I'd feel pretty angry, pretty disappointed and very frustrated, and NaNiwa isn't known for his nice manner like some players. I dunno man, I'd feel pretty fucked over, especially since to NaNiwa this is his life. Except Sundance said that no admin told Naniwa that the map was cross-position only. The reason he thought it was cross-position only it seems is because he hosted the first game on the wrong map, which had Nestea in cross-positions and when he came back earlier than Nestea, he watched the replay (possibly illegally) on the wrong map and Nestea was cross-positions. What do you think is more likely... that NaNiwa made up the entire story and raged for no reason... or that 1 admin decided he doesn't want to own up to his mistake? With Naniwas history, I honestly think it's more likely that he made it up... There's a difference between being BM and being a liar and a cheat, you know. Good god, I never thought I'd be the one defending Naniwa on an internet forum. The guy was BM as fuck and mediocre as all get-out in War3, and I mostly just wished he'd shut his mouth in the past, but the amount of hate that's being directed at him here is ridiculous. Here's the quote from Sundance: "He chose the wrong map then freaked. Delayed the broadcast and lashed out. It's not our job to make sure he knows which maps have crosses and which do not. He also chose before the admin went in to talk to him. Onward and upward..." I think Sundance would be able to tell if one of his admins even went to talk to him first. I hope MLG at least looks into the possibility of Naniwa watching the replay today. Sorry, here's the link: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/mimu3/naniwas_thoughts_on_mlg/ Again: how can you know that he wasn't told before the series even began by another admin that the map was cross-spawn only? We don't know anything at all. Anyone who thinks he won based on seeing NesTea's opening is, quite frankly, being absurd.
Well, it's always easier to do a cannon rush when your coach can come in to your booth and say "yeah he's going hatch first"
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On November 20 2011 19:21 Zalithian wrote:
Naniwa himself has admitted he's BM. I don't know what further proof anyone would require.
What? Naniwa is most certainly BM and I really don't give a shit about that, but what he said in the interview wasn't meant as BM.
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On November 20 2011 19:23 Sneakyz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 19:21 Zalithian wrote:
Naniwa himself has admitted he's BM. I don't know what further proof anyone would require. What? Naniwa is most certainly BM and I really don't give a shit about that, but what he said in the interview wasn't meant as BM.
And thumbing down directly at Nestea after beating him isn't BM? Really giving up on this now. People will continue to think whatever they like.
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Please someone help me watch the Vods. The official MLG page just shows a black page when trying to watch the stream or Vods, while I was able to watch the stream live on youtube and teevox.
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On November 20 2011 18:34 JoeSchmoe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 18:17 Grend wrote:
so weird that people start fighting whenever foreigners beat the koreans. Should be more celebration imo.
You do not have to be korean to have solid play! because certain events took place during the match that may have infringed on rules and allowed Naniwa an unfair advantage. just because it's a foreigner victory, it doesn't mean we should just plug our ears and sweep things under the rug.
True true I was speaking in more general terms, was some other good foreigner wins too :-)
This NanTea situation needs a press statement from MLG, hope theyll make it today.
The fact that Nani made a ceremony after winning indicates to me that he did not feel guilty and felt that he won fairly. So based on that I think that even if Nani had some opportunities to cheat caused by all the mess I do not think he used them.
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You all can argue about stuff you don't know shit about, but anyway: Nestea got alot of price money from before, will he hire an assassin to kill Naniwa?
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On November 20 2011 19:24 Zalithian wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 19:23 Sneakyz wrote:On November 20 2011 19:21 Zalithian wrote:
Naniwa himself has admitted he's BM. I don't know what further proof anyone would require. What? Naniwa is most certainly BM and I really don't give a shit about that, but what he said in the interview wasn't meant as BM. And thumbing down directly at Nestea after beating him isn't BM? Really giving up on this now. People will continue to think whatever they like.
Not really no, haven't you watched any korean bw/sc2? :O It happens all the time. It's not like anyone was like "OMG WHITE-RA SO BM" when White-ra thumbs-downed MC in the World championships team stuff.
One could consider the circumstances to be bad for a thumbs-down but noone knows the truth and I didn't watch the games so I don't know.
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EPT
