Watch how you approach the topic of match fixing. You can speculate, saying "I'm not so sure about the finals, something doesn't sit right with me," but if you are going to outright accuse players of match fixing you need something more than your word.
TL takes match fixing/abuse seriously and as such there is a burden a proof when you are accusing players.
You think the players don't care about 1st place achivements? though.
I think Koreans don't care about Blizzcon at all. It's not an achievement just an opportunity to win money. This wouldn't be the first time Koreans had these kind of arrangements in foreign tournaments, it happened in BW at some point too.
Difference is that they're not fighting for small change here. This Blizzcon was the equivalent of winning a season of code S in prizemoney, and unless you're suggesting that the GSL (and every other tournament out there) is a set-up too, you have no basis to make an accusation like that.
Not to mention that SC2 seems to be a whole lot more succesful in the West then in Korea itself. In a way, there's more prestige taking something like blizzcon, where so many fans are physically present then a korean GSL finals.
I don't see any situation in which a player, let's say MVP, agrees up front to forfeit 15k USD to another player he has regularly beaten in the past. Neither do I see Nestea offering the same thing after busting MVP 2-0 in their first bo3.
What do you mean no basis... did you watch the final game and what everyone is saying about it? It's got all the apparent hallmarks of playing basically a showmatch knowing they would split after. How do i have to accuse the GSL or anything else just by pointing out this particular incident is suspect (and the GSL has had games were teammates appeared to fold for other teammates, according to some people at least).
And your situation doesn't even take into account the fact they are TEAMMATES. The games YOU know about is not the only games they play for christs sake, they practice all the time together most likely. But even if there was a bigger obvious gap in skill i wouldn't say it would be out of the question for 2 teammates to split winnings.
Also there's no prestige in Blizzcon, it's seriously nothing to them. Just because there's a lot of people there doesn't mean anything really, i mean Blizzcon isn't even prestigious outside of Korea as an eSports event so why would it be in Korea.
LOL how dumb could you get... that last game, tell me what could have nestea done? constantly throw away banelings into siege lines and planetarys wave by wave only to be starved out?
How dumb can you get? I didn't watch the games, i'm simply explaining why infact games would have winners split between players regardless of the play in the game. People have clearly pointed many big blatant mistakes and bad decisions made in the game by Nestea, if you can't even understand that then you need to stop posting on the subject.
red4ce: do you think MVP is going to say 'no i don't care about Blizzcon much'? Bisu didn't even know what the event was iirc let alone consider it prestigious. Even if he is from a different scene it's not like he doesn't know what the actual events are that people in Korea consider worthwhile.
LOL why are Terran players always seem to be entitled bunch? You didn't even watch the game and you are calling other people dumb for saying that it's dumb to think there's a conspiracy involved?
Here's the deal, many Terran players watch the game, don't like the thought that it implies Terran late game is imba, so they naturally pick at every aspect of Nestea's play that they don't understand and instead interpret it as bad play.
Hmmm.. a doom drop of 120 suicide-melee banelings, let's see you do it better,
"He didn't unload all of his banelings during the drop."
That's because, Nestea was, in fact, TRYING TO MICRO THEM, he expected MVP to move he whole army to the choke to his main, so he tried to drop banelings on top of the choke...
Turns out snipes are pretty good.
"He should've nydus more."
As if mass Nydus isn't more expensive and way less effective than doom drop. (Somewhere in this retort there's a line about Code S Protoss not rushing Carrier against Terran.)
"He should've attacked when he has 10k banked"
Nestea, unlike you spectators, doesn't have the luxury of knowing exactly how his opponent is doing economic-wise. Why is it a bad idea for him to play safe and try to mine out more of the map? And I'm sure you all see the PFs and Siege Tanks MVP set up in the middle, maybe you should actually do some testing of your own instead of questioning (blindly) the decision of the best Zerg player in the world, and a teammate of the best Terran no less.
"He should not have sent in 27 Broodlords without support"
......
..... ..... Is it so hard to see that Nestea decided that the game was lost and basically just went for broke? You have no business criticizing Nestea's play (or anyone's for that matter) if you actually bothered to point this out.
Edit: and one thing I forgot:
"He didn't pull his drones from those nukes"
If I remember correctly, there was 2 nukes (at Nestea's 5th and 6th), a drop at Nestea's main, a drop at his fourth, and all this while Nestea was trying to pull off a doom drop with banelings. There was some nukes afterward but I think Nestea was pretty flustered at that point.
Your calling Terran players the entitled bunch? LOL, if anything, Terran players whine the least. Protosses always whine about their race being UP, and zergs whine just for the hell of it. From the rest of your post, its pretty obvious that your a silly Nestea fanboy who can't take anyone insulting his play. He played bad, get over it.
On October 24 2011 02:52 furerkip wrote: Why would they split the money, they both would have tried to lose then, since 2nd place gets 25K, and the other half of 1st place, so 2nd place gets 50K while 1st place gets 25K... If it were for monetary ideals, I don't think MVP would've really cared about winning the first bo3 (as would Nestea, since it didn't make sense for him to beat MVP in the WB Finals).
I could write a dissertation about this comment. I love everything about it. Baffling logic (or complete lack there of), followed by the term "monetary ideals".
This was either written by some kind of super human comedic savant who is smarter than all of us, or a simpleton on an adorable level.
On October 24 2011 11:55 Lokian wrote: felt kinda bad for the crowd chanting MVP, MVP, MVP
and mvp didnt even stay until the crowd ended their cheer... instead he goes out in the back... wtf was that.
and the last game, i dont understand where nestea is coming from... what the hell... is that why MVP didn't acknowledge the crowd, and went to hide...
A blizzard employee pulled him to the backstage. For what reason I dunno. He didn't mean to shun you guys.
He was ulled out back because the blizzcon closing ceremony was beginning and paul sams called out both mma and mvp and later the korean wow arena team omg on stage to showcase the winners of the 3 tournaments that took place over the weekend.
It was unfortunate to have it done but it wasn't mvps fault just slightly poor planning/timing for the closing ceremony by paul sams
You think the players don't care about 1st place achivements? though.
I think Koreans don't care about Blizzcon at all. It's not an achievement just an opportunity to win money. This wouldn't be the first time Koreans had these kind of arrangements in foreign tournaments, it happened in BW at some point too.
Difference is that they're not fighting for small change here. This Blizzcon was the equivalent of winning a season of code S in prizemoney, and unless you're suggesting that the GSL (and every other tournament out there) is a set-up too, you have no basis to make an accusation like that.
Not to mention that SC2 seems to be a whole lot more succesful in the West then in Korea itself. In a way, there's more prestige taking something like blizzcon, where so many fans are physically present then a korean GSL finals.
I don't see any situation in which a player, let's say MVP, agrees up front to forfeit 15k USD to another player he has regularly beaten in the past. Neither do I see Nestea offering the same thing after busting MVP 2-0 in their first bo3.
What do you mean no basis... did you watch the final game and what everyone is saying about it? It's got all the apparent hallmarks of playing basically a showmatch knowing they would split after. How do i have to accuse the GSL or anything else just by pointing out this particular incident is suspect (and the GSL has had games were teammates appeared to fold for other teammates, according to some people at least).
And your situation doesn't even take into account the fact they are TEAMMATES. The games YOU know about is not the only games they play for christs sake, they practice all the time together most likely. But even if there was a bigger obvious gap in skill i wouldn't say it would be out of the question for 2 teammates to split winnings.
Also there's no prestige in Blizzcon, it's seriously nothing to them. Just because there's a lot of people there doesn't mean anything really, i mean Blizzcon isn't even prestigious outside of Korea as an eSports event so why would it be in Korea.
LOL how dumb could you get... that last game, tell me what could have nestea done? constantly throw away banelings into siege lines and planetarys wave by wave only to be starved out?
How dumb can you get? I didn't watch the games, i'm simply explaining why infact games would have winners split between players regardless of the play in the game. People have clearly pointed many big blatant mistakes and bad decisions made in the game by Nestea, if you can't even understand that then you need to stop posting on the subject.
red4ce: do you think MVP is going to say 'no i don't care about Blizzcon much'? Bisu didn't even know what the event was iirc let alone consider it prestigious. Even if he is from a different scene it's not like he doesn't know what the actual events are that people in Korea consider worthwhile.
LOL why are Terran players always seem to be entitled bunch? You didn't even watch the game and you are calling other people dumb for saying that it's dumb to think there's a conspiracy involved?
Here's the deal, many Terran players watch the game, don't like the thought that it implies Terran late game is imba, so they naturally pick at every aspect of Nestea's play that they don't understand and instead interpret it as bad play.
Hmmm.. a doom drop of 120 suicide-melee banelings, let's see you do it better,
"He didn't unload all of his banelings during the drop."
That's because, Nestea was, in fact, TRYING TO MICRO THEM, he expected MVP to move he whole army to the choke to his main, so he tried to drop banelings on top of the choke...
Turns out snipes are pretty good.
"He should've nydus more."
As if mass Nydus isn't more expensive and way less effective than doom drop. (Somewhere in this retort there's a line about Code S Protoss not rushing Carrier against Terran.)
"He should've attacked when he has 10k banked"
Nestea, unlike you spectators, doesn't have the luxury of knowing exactly how his opponent is doing economic-wise. Why is it a bad idea for him to play safe and try to mine out more of the map? And I'm sure you all see the PFs and Siege Tanks MVP set up in the middle, maybe you should actually do some testing of your own instead of questioning (blindly) the decision of the best Zerg player in the world, and a teammate of the best Terran no less.
"He should not have sent in 27 Broodlords without support"
......
..... ..... Is it so hard to see that Nestea decided that the game was lost and basically just went for broke? You have no business criticizing Nestea's play (or anyone's for that matter) if you actually bothered to point this out.
Edit: and one thing I forgot:
"He didn't pull his drones from those nukes"
If I remember correctly, there was 2 nukes (at Nestea's 5th and 6th), a drop at Nestea's main, a drop at his fourth, and all this while Nestea was trying to pull off a doom drop with banelings. There was some nukes afterward but I think Nestea was pretty flustered at that point.
Your calling Terran players the entitled bunch? LOL, if anything, Terran players whine the least. Protosses always whine about their race being UP, and zergs whine just for the hell of it. From the rest of your post, its pretty obvious that your a silly Nestea fanboy who can't take anyone insulting his play. He played bad, get over it.
just a thought.... do you really believe that Zerg Protoss and Terran players have different personalities ? that's ridiculous ... just the fact that Terran players don't whine points to there being less for them to whine about
You think the players don't care about 1st place achivements? though.
I think Koreans don't care about Blizzcon at all. It's not an achievement just an opportunity to win money. This wouldn't be the first time Koreans had these kind of arrangements in foreign tournaments, it happened in BW at some point too.
Difference is that they're not fighting for small change here. This Blizzcon was the equivalent of winning a season of code S in prizemoney, and unless you're suggesting that the GSL (and every other tournament out there) is a set-up too, you have no basis to make an accusation like that.
Not to mention that SC2 seems to be a whole lot more succesful in the West then in Korea itself. In a way, there's more prestige taking something like blizzcon, where so many fans are physically present then a korean GSL finals.
I don't see any situation in which a player, let's say MVP, agrees up front to forfeit 15k USD to another player he has regularly beaten in the past. Neither do I see Nestea offering the same thing after busting MVP 2-0 in their first bo3.
What do you mean no basis... did you watch the final game and what everyone is saying about it? It's got all the apparent hallmarks of playing basically a showmatch knowing they would split after. How do i have to accuse the GSL or anything else just by pointing out this particular incident is suspect (and the GSL has had games were teammates appeared to fold for other teammates, according to some people at least).
And your situation doesn't even take into account the fact they are TEAMMATES. The games YOU know about is not the only games they play for christs sake, they practice all the time together most likely. But even if there was a bigger obvious gap in skill i wouldn't say it would be out of the question for 2 teammates to split winnings.
Also there's no prestige in Blizzcon, it's seriously nothing to them. Just because there's a lot of people there doesn't mean anything really, i mean Blizzcon isn't even prestigious outside of Korea as an eSports event so why would it be in Korea.
LOL how dumb could you get... that last game, tell me what could have nestea done? constantly throw away banelings into siege lines and planetarys wave by wave only to be starved out?
How dumb can you get? I didn't watch the games, i'm simply explaining why infact games would have winners split between players regardless of the play in the game. People have clearly pointed many big blatant mistakes and bad decisions made in the game by Nestea, if you can't even understand that then you need to stop posting on the subject.
red4ce: do you think MVP is going to say 'no i don't care about Blizzcon much'? Bisu didn't even know what the event was iirc let alone consider it prestigious. Even if he is from a different scene it's not like he doesn't know what the actual events are that people in Korea consider worthwhile.
LOL why are Terran players always seem to be entitled bunch? You didn't even watch the game and you are calling other people dumb for saying that it's dumb to think there's a conspiracy involved?
Here's the deal, many Terran players watch the game, don't like the thought that it implies Terran late game is imba, so they naturally pick at every aspect of Nestea's play that they don't understand and instead interpret it as bad play.
Hmmm.. a doom drop of 120 suicide-melee banelings, let's see you do it better,
"He didn't unload all of his banelings during the drop."
That's because, Nestea was, in fact, TRYING TO MICRO THEM, he expected MVP to move he whole army to the choke to his main, so he tried to drop banelings on top of the choke...
Turns out snipes are pretty good.
"He should've nydus more."
As if mass Nydus isn't more expensive and way less effective than doom drop. (Somewhere in this retort there's a line about Code S Protoss not rushing Carrier against Terran.)
"He should've attacked when he has 10k banked"
Nestea, unlike you spectators, doesn't have the luxury of knowing exactly how his opponent is doing economic-wise. Why is it a bad idea for him to play safe and try to mine out more of the map? And I'm sure you all see the PFs and Siege Tanks MVP set up in the middle, maybe you should actually do some testing of your own instead of questioning (blindly) the decision of the best Zerg player in the world, and a teammate of the best Terran no less.
"He should not have sent in 27 Broodlords without support"
......
..... ..... Is it so hard to see that Nestea decided that the game was lost and basically just went for broke? You have no business criticizing Nestea's play (or anyone's for that matter) if you actually bothered to point this out.
Edit: and one thing I forgot:
"He didn't pull his drones from those nukes"
If I remember correctly, there was 2 nukes (at Nestea's 5th and 6th), a drop at Nestea's main, a drop at his fourth, and all this while Nestea was trying to pull off a doom drop with banelings. There was some nukes afterward but I think Nestea was pretty flustered at that point.
Your calling Terran players the entitled bunch? LOL, if anything, Terran players whine the least. Protosses always whine about their race being UP, and zergs whine just for the hell of it. From the rest of your post, its pretty obvious that your a silly Nestea fanboy who can't take anyone insulting his play. He played bad, get over it.
just a thought.... do you really believe that Zerg Protoss and Terran players have different personalities ? that's ridiculous ... just the fact that Terran players don't whine points to there being less for them to whine about
Yes, I do believe that the different races all have different personalities. In general, protosses are snobby, zergs are whiners, while Terrans just get hated at. Not saying its always like that, but this is how it is on average.
You think the players don't care about 1st place achivements? though.
I think Koreans don't care about Blizzcon at all. It's not an achievement just an opportunity to win money. This wouldn't be the first time Koreans had these kind of arrangements in foreign tournaments, it happened in BW at some point too.
Difference is that they're not fighting for small change here. This Blizzcon was the equivalent of winning a season of code S in prizemoney, and unless you're suggesting that the GSL (and every other tournament out there) is a set-up too, you have no basis to make an accusation like that.
Not to mention that SC2 seems to be a whole lot more succesful in the West then in Korea itself. In a way, there's more prestige taking something like blizzcon, where so many fans are physically present then a korean GSL finals.
I don't see any situation in which a player, let's say MVP, agrees up front to forfeit 15k USD to another player he has regularly beaten in the past. Neither do I see Nestea offering the same thing after busting MVP 2-0 in their first bo3.
What do you mean no basis... did you watch the final game and what everyone is saying about it? It's got all the apparent hallmarks of playing basically a showmatch knowing they would split after. How do i have to accuse the GSL or anything else just by pointing out this particular incident is suspect (and the GSL has had games were teammates appeared to fold for other teammates, according to some people at least).
And your situation doesn't even take into account the fact they are TEAMMATES. The games YOU know about is not the only games they play for christs sake, they practice all the time together most likely. But even if there was a bigger obvious gap in skill i wouldn't say it would be out of the question for 2 teammates to split winnings.
Also there's no prestige in Blizzcon, it's seriously nothing to them. Just because there's a lot of people there doesn't mean anything really, i mean Blizzcon isn't even prestigious outside of Korea as an eSports event so why would it be in Korea.
LOL how dumb could you get... that last game, tell me what could have nestea done? constantly throw away banelings into siege lines and planetarys wave by wave only to be starved out?
How dumb can you get? I didn't watch the games, i'm simply explaining why infact games would have winners split between players regardless of the play in the game. People have clearly pointed many big blatant mistakes and bad decisions made in the game by Nestea, if you can't even understand that then you need to stop posting on the subject.
red4ce: do you think MVP is going to say 'no i don't care about Blizzcon much'? Bisu didn't even know what the event was iirc let alone consider it prestigious. Even if he is from a different scene it's not like he doesn't know what the actual events are that people in Korea consider worthwhile.
LOL why are Terran players always seem to be entitled bunch? You didn't even watch the game and you are calling other people dumb for saying that it's dumb to think there's a conspiracy involved?
Here's the deal, many Terran players watch the game, don't like the thought that it implies Terran late game is imba, so they naturally pick at every aspect of Nestea's play that they don't understand and instead interpret it as bad play.
Hmmm.. a doom drop of 120 suicide-melee banelings, let's see you do it better,
"He didn't unload all of his banelings during the drop."
That's because, Nestea was, in fact, TRYING TO MICRO THEM, he expected MVP to move he whole army to the choke to his main, so he tried to drop banelings on top of the choke...
Turns out snipes are pretty good.
"He should've nydus more."
As if mass Nydus isn't more expensive and way less effective than doom drop. (Somewhere in this retort there's a line about Code S Protoss not rushing Carrier against Terran.)
"He should've attacked when he has 10k banked"
Nestea, unlike you spectators, doesn't have the luxury of knowing exactly how his opponent is doing economic-wise. Why is it a bad idea for him to play safe and try to mine out more of the map? And I'm sure you all see the PFs and Siege Tanks MVP set up in the middle, maybe you should actually do some testing of your own instead of questioning (blindly) the decision of the best Zerg player in the world, and a teammate of the best Terran no less.
"He should not have sent in 27 Broodlords without support"
......
..... ..... Is it so hard to see that Nestea decided that the game was lost and basically just went for broke? You have no business criticizing Nestea's play (or anyone's for that matter) if you actually bothered to point this out.
Edit: and one thing I forgot:
"He didn't pull his drones from those nukes"
If I remember correctly, there was 2 nukes (at Nestea's 5th and 6th), a drop at Nestea's main, a drop at his fourth, and all this while Nestea was trying to pull off a doom drop with banelings. There was some nukes afterward but I think Nestea was pretty flustered at that point.
Your calling Terran players the entitled bunch? LOL, if anything, Terran players whine the least. Protosses always whine about their race being UP, and zergs whine just for the hell of it. From the rest of your post, its pretty obvious that your a silly Nestea fanboy who can't take anyone insulting his play. He played bad, get over it.
just a thought.... do you really believe that Zerg Protoss and Terran players have different personalities ? that's ridiculous ... just the fact that Terran players don't whine points to there being less for them to whine about
Yes, I do believe that the different races all have different personalities. In general, protosses are snobby, zergs are whiners, while Terrans just get hated at. Not saying its always like that, but this is how it is on average.
I'm a snobby whiner who gets hated at. I play Terran.
So why did bisu and fantasy and whoever else end up being invited? Did they play some exhibition bw matches or sc2 matches ? I havent seen anything about them other than the fact they were attending.
So why did bisu and fantasy and whoever else end up being invited? Did they play some exhibition bw matches or sc2 matches ? I havent seen anything about them other than the fact they were attending.
I suspect it was just a VIP invite. They sneaked into the GSL finals with a small entourage about a minute after Mvp and MMA did their entrance and it took most people nearby quite a while to realize they'd even gone by (I only barely noticed their team jackets while cheering). I didn't see or hear anything of them for the rest of the event, and my friends and I were hanging out on the RTS stage for almost the entire convention.
So why did bisu and fantasy and whoever else end up being invited? Did they play some exhibition bw matches or sc2 matches ? I havent seen anything about them other than the fact they were attending.
I suspect it was just a VIP invite. They sneaked into the GSL finals with a small entourage about a minute after Mvp and MMA did their entrance and it took most people nearby quite a while to realize they'd even gone by (I only barely noticed their team jackets while cheering). I didn't see or hear anything of them for the rest of the event, and my friends and I were hanging out on the RTS stage for almost the entire convention.
Jaedong snuck out after game 3 of the series. I saw him walk off with his shorter compatriot and I gleefully whispered omg jaedonggggg and he smiled at me as he ran off.
Bisu and fantasy left after game 4 and I managed to chase after them. One guy got a picture with them before me and their female manager of sorts ushered them away before I got my photo so I ran ahead of them and held up my hand instead and fantasy and bisu smiled and high fived me. I was so fucking insanely happy. People later asked me as I sat back down who they were and I told them and most had no fucking clue. Sad but whatever. I got my fill.
On October 24 2011 02:52 furerkip wrote: Why would they split the money, they both would have tried to lose then, since 2nd place gets 25K, and the other half of 1st place, so 2nd place gets 50K while 1st place gets 25K... If it were for monetary ideals, I don't think MVP would've really cared about winning the first bo3 (as would Nestea, since it didn't make sense for him to beat MVP in the WB Finals).
I could write a dissertation about this comment. I love everything about it. Baffling logic (or complete lack there of), followed by the term "monetary ideals".
This was either written by some kind of super human comedic savant who is smarter than all of us, or a simpleton on an adorable level.
On October 24 2011 07:55 Tjubatjubs wrote: People here are overreacting.
It was not some huge conspiracy or scandal.
But it is out of most respect to Nestea that I say that at some point he threw the last game.
I refuse to believe that the best zerg player in the world can't move his drones from his 3(?) mining bases to defend against nukes at multiple times, having 14k in the bank and yet get supply capped by sacking all his overlords and waste all his banelings on nothing.
It could be a bet like "mvp, if you manage take it to the last game, lets put up a show!" or he wanted to make statement on balance like the twitter suggest. They can have other priorities like "I value our friendship higher than money, if we both get to the finals lets treat our fans with great games and split the money so there is no ill feelings."
Or he was just tired. Or it is simply a huge conspiracy.
Anything is more likely than Nestea building 24 broodlords and move out with no support nor detection against ghosts and vikings and is expecting to win. Then later come out smiling like a boss at the award ceremony.
I don't care either way and it should not important. All games at Blizzcon rocked cake. Epic finals... except the last game. That's what I have an issue with, what ever you think happened at least agree that it was a bad game. ^___^;
My 2 cents.
Please have tolerance for bad grammar.
Not moving his drones under nuke / left huge amount of bank without doing anything / morph 30 corruptors to broodlord in one time without any air/ground support ... Yes, it's 99% like a show match other than final.
On October 24 2011 02:52 furerkip wrote: Why would they split the money, they both would have tried to lose then, since 2nd place gets 25K, and the other half of 1st place, so 2nd place gets 50K while 1st place gets 25K... If it were for monetary ideals, I don't think MVP would've really cared about winning the first bo3 (as would Nestea, since it didn't make sense for him to beat MVP in the WB Finals).
A real gem. Imagine a poker game. Fist place is 30k, second 20k, and it's heads-up. One guy proposes a split, other guy says "ok, but I demand 60/40 since I'm ahead in chips." ."Ok"
So first place gets 18k, and second place gets 32k.
EPT
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