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On October 15 2011 02:38 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 02:15 Azarkon wrote:On October 15 2011 02:10 jj33 wrote:On October 15 2011 02:05 FinBenton wrote:On October 15 2011 02:00 jj33 wrote:On October 15 2011 01:57 Azarkon wrote:On October 15 2011 01:51 jj33 wrote:On October 15 2011 01:46 SPQR13 wrote:On October 15 2011 01:37 Tarotis wrote:
proven what wrong?
that talent is not a factor?
you're wrong in so many ways. you are denying talent exists?
Yes, I deny exactly that. Everything can be trained and learned if your neurons connect the right way. Dont want to go too deep into that as I cant write that down in english  no you are wrong, im sure nature gave some guys some rts game understanding talent, hell, even sc2 game understanding in particular 100% correct. most recent example I can think of is Stephano. He apparently doens't practice much but watching him play and his decision making/understanding of the game (which at the core is strategy) you can clearly see he's very talented. When you watch savior play back in bw days, you can clearly see he had talent as well. I can't believe people here are really trying to say and believe talent is not real. Unbelievable But then again, I also don't see why you're obsessed with talent. You can't tell whether what someone lacks is talent just by watching them play. As IdrA, among others in the community, have said - in Starcraft, people who aren't talented but who practice a lot can be good, but people who are talented but who never practice can never be good. You don't know how much of Axslav/Incontrol's failures are due to their talent and how much of it is due to the way they train. everything you said i agree. I never said otherwise. I just mentioned that it's not only hard work, but talent as well. I just kept going, because it seems there are people out there who believe talent doesn't exist, which is ridiculous. But I do believe Axslav/incontrol are very limited in their talents compared to top pros. I dont think no one has said talend doesnt exist at all but seriously anyone can get to top 20 in sc2 with 12h training a day with a great coach. I think talent is what determines whos top 1 and whos top 10 player.. And some people can get up there faster than others.. wrong. take my friend for example. He was horrible and bw and sc2. He's talent is very limited. No matter how hard he tries and how much I try to help him he can not break out of platinum. He doesn't have the mechanics and more importantly he doesn't have the fast through process. He's a smart guy, but in sc2 he's just lost. And here's where your argument breaks down. Mechanics are among the least dependent on talent, and among the most dependent on training. SC 2 mechanics, especially, which don't really even require very fast hands. The reason your friend is failing isn't because he lacks talent, it's because he doesn't know how to train his mechanics. Most people don't. But it's the first thing pro players tell you to focus on. By saying that your friend has crappy mechanics because he isn't talented, you're basically doing him a disservice by not showing him the real way to improve. That's why I said more importantly the decision making. yea you can train mechanics, but some people are just faster and more precise than others. but yes in general in sc2 mechanics are not as important. but he's so horrible with his cooridnation and once again more importantly decision making.
Good decision making is a product of experience, on one hand, and targeted training, on another. SC 2 decision making up to and including the Grandmaster level isn't that difficult, really - you just need to memorize the builds, the timings, and their counters. That's doable by anyone with the mind to do it. Only at the pro levels, when people start heavily improvising their builds and playing mind games, do on-the-fly thinking become important.
So again, your friend isn't in Platinum because he lacks talent.
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Hahahaha.
Gotta say, it is enjoyable seeing European players getting ousted by the North Americans. Makes the rivalry more than just Foreigners vs Koreans  Also, Edge is well known if you followed the open bracket last MLG (or was it the one before?) Took out a lot of notable players.
USA! USA!
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Can't stand this elfi guy. Ugh
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All this Americas (to include KiLLeR) x Europe discussion will be moot if a Korean takes this tournament. So come on foreigners, lets band together cheering against the Korean superpowers!
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On October 15 2011 02:39 Maenander wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 02:38 IzenHart wrote:On October 15 2011 02:33 Azarkon wrote:Seeing so many European favorites fall makes me think that Europeans are underestimating the NA players In europe's defence, I look at the groups and I don't see Naniwa, WhiteRa, Thorzain, Sase, Dimaga, Stephano, Ret, Morrow, while for US I just don't see Idra and Huk. The only 2 good players in there are Strelok and Mana, incidentally, probably the most unstable ones in terms of results of all the good eu pro players. I don't see Huk, Idra, Sheth, Select or Kiwikaki, your argument is weak.
If Select is NA then isnt Huk KR by your rationale?
Also add Nerchio to his list.
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WTF Axslavs build is SOO BAD. Don't know what he was thinking
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Naked people in NYC in public, standard.
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Typical EG Excuses 
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Axslav looks like Artosis. Anybody else see it?
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MrBitter, stop looking at naked men!
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Why did Axslav tell him he messed up?
He could just do the same build again and get an easy win if he was confident he could hold a 4 gate with an extra Stalker.
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officially the worst tournament for the euros since the release lol
but wont happen again
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axslav died with 400 gas. wow
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On October 15 2011 02:45 Aristodemus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 02:39 Maenander wrote:On October 15 2011 02:38 IzenHart wrote:On October 15 2011 02:33 Azarkon wrote:Seeing so many European favorites fall makes me think that Europeans are underestimating the NA players In europe's defence, I look at the groups and I don't see Naniwa, WhiteRa, Thorzain, Sase, Dimaga, Stephano, Ret, Morrow, while for US I just don't see Idra and Huk. The only 2 good players in there are Strelok and Mana, incidentally, probably the most unstable ones in terms of results of all the good eu pro players. I don't see Huk, Idra, Sheth, Select or Kiwikaki, your argument is weak. If Select is NA then isnt Huk KR by your rationale? Also add Nerchio to his list.
I am obviously just making fun and not making a serious argument, but the NA bashing by europeans in the past was very real and I don't see why this event shouldn't be used to show EU-server-fanboys their hypocrisy.
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Is elfi sick or something ?
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On October 15 2011 02:45 FaRess wrote:Typical EG Excuses
hahah whenever any korean loses TL freaks out and goes "he was jetlaggedddd"
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elfi looks so sick. And I dont mean in game...
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Any news on the turnout to iem NY, do they have a decent amount of spectators... and did anybody from the US actually showing up for LOL or is that not until the weekend?
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On October 15 2011 02:45 claash wrote:
officially the worst tournament for the euros since the release lol
but wont happen again
Thats because all the euro's that went except for Mana are 2nd tier pros.
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On October 15 2011 02:43 Redox wrote:
Everyone going crazy over Mana loosing to TT1. Dont really get this. Mana might have been smth like the 2:1 favorite, but a TT1 victory was a good possibility as well.
He wasn't favorite imo. TT1 did beat him 2-0 in previous encounter.
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EPT
