|
|
|
On October 15 2011 02:04 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 01:57 pallidiog wrote:
Wow wasnt expecting ppl actually believes in "hard work" theory, lol. In fact look at korea sc1, scheduled practice time for 200 hundreds (or more) proffesional gamers pretty much training for EQUAL amount of time each day for years (which is determented by kespa and their team), and what do we got? bad b-teamers not getting any televised matches, and guys like jaedong with 75% win/loss in zvz. And multi osl/msl champions. And flash owning it up in the age of 14.
In fact it is ALL about talent and personality, and training is just a requirement.
Plz stop kidding youself. you watched to many hollywood movies i think.
yup. we are in a modern culture, where people breed this type of thought to make themselves feel better. its ridiculous
Modern society breeds the idea that people can be what they want to be, which is just an euphemistic way of saying that you should always try your best. I see nothing wrong with this.
On the other hand, obsession with talent can be easily detrimental, as it could lead to people giving up before they even try.
|
If TT1 goes through instead of MaNa it would be really, really sad ;>.
|
On October 15 2011 02:05 FinBenton wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 02:00 jj33 wrote:On October 15 2011 01:57 Azarkon wrote:On October 15 2011 01:51 jj33 wrote:On October 15 2011 01:46 SPQR13 wrote:On October 15 2011 01:37 Tarotis wrote:
proven what wrong?
that talent is not a factor?
you're wrong in so many ways. you are denying talent exists?
Yes, I deny exactly that. Everything can be trained and learned if your neurons connect the right way. Dont want to go too deep into that as I cant write that down in english  no you are wrong, im sure nature gave some guys some rts game understanding talent, hell, even sc2 game understanding in particular 100% correct. most recent example I can think of is Stephano. He apparently doens't practice much but watching him play and his decision making/understanding of the game (which at the core is strategy) you can clearly see he's very talented. When you watch savior play back in bw days, you can clearly see he had talent as well. I can't believe people here are really trying to say and believe talent is not real. Unbelievable But then again, I also don't see why you're obsessed with talent. You can't tell whether what someone lacks is talent just by watching them play. As IdrA, among others in the community, have said - in Starcraft, people who aren't talented but who practice a lot can be good, but people who are talented but who never practice can never be good. You don't know how much of Axslav/Incontrol's failures are due to their talent and how much of it is due to the way they train. everything you said i agree. I never said otherwise. I just mentioned that it's not only hard work, but talent as well. I just kept going, because it seems there are people out there who believe talent doesn't exist, which is ridiculous. But I do believe Axslav/incontrol are very limited in their talents compared to top pros. I dont think no one has said talend doesnt exist at all but seriously anyone can get to top 20 in sc2 with 12h training a day with a great coach. I think talent is what determines whos top 1 and whos top 10 player.. And some people can get up there faster than others..
wrong. take my friend for example. He was horrible and bw and sc2. He's talent is very limited. No matter how hard he tries and how much I try to help him he can not break out of platinum.
He doesn't have the mechanics and more importantly he doesn't have the fast through process. He's a smart guy, but in sc2 he's just lost.
|
Come on Mana you can do this!
|
i'm really gonna be pissed if mana loses two games after he was leading 1-0, just like strelok yesterday
-.-
|
On October 15 2011 02:10 Fyzar wrote:
If TT1 goes through instead of MaNa it would be really, really sad ;>.
I hope for Mana as well but its only sad if TT1 loses in RO8 with terrible play. If he continues to play well I totally welcome that.
|
On October 15 2011 02:10 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 02:04 jj33 wrote:On October 15 2011 01:57 pallidiog wrote:
Wow wasnt expecting ppl actually believes in "hard work" theory, lol. In fact look at korea sc1, scheduled practice time for 200 hundreds (or more) proffesional gamers pretty much training for EQUAL amount of time each day for years (which is determented by kespa and their team), and what do we got? bad b-teamers not getting any televised matches, and guys like jaedong with 75% win/loss in zvz. And multi osl/msl champions. And flash owning it up in the age of 14.
In fact it is ALL about talent and personality, and training is just a requirement.
Plz stop kidding youself. you watched to many hollywood movies i think.
yup. we are in a modern culture, where people breed this type of thought to make themselves feel better. its ridiculous Modern society breeds the idea that people can be what they want to be, which is just an euphemistic way of saying that you should always try your best. I see nothing wrong with this. On the other hand, obsession with talent can be easily detrimental, as it could lead to people giving up before they even try.
yeah, exactly. I mean its all about balance. Hard work is important, and this idea of everybody is equal in terms of skill encourages more hardwork for ambitious people and talented people. I don't think its bad unless its something that encourages mediocrity.
|
On October 15 2011 02:10 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 02:05 FinBenton wrote:On October 15 2011 02:00 jj33 wrote:On October 15 2011 01:57 Azarkon wrote:On October 15 2011 01:51 jj33 wrote:On October 15 2011 01:46 SPQR13 wrote:On October 15 2011 01:37 Tarotis wrote:
proven what wrong?
that talent is not a factor?
you're wrong in so many ways. you are denying talent exists?
Yes, I deny exactly that. Everything can be trained and learned if your neurons connect the right way. Dont want to go too deep into that as I cant write that down in english no you are wrong, im sure nature gave some guys some rts game understanding talent, hell, even sc2 game understanding in particular 100% correct. most recent example I can think of is Stephano. He apparently doens't practice much but watching him play and his decision making/understanding of the game (which at the core is strategy) you can clearly see he's very talented. When you watch savior play back in bw days, you can clearly see he had talent as well. I can't believe people here are really trying to say and believe talent is not real. Unbelievable But then again, I also don't see why you're obsessed with talent. You can't tell whether what someone lacks is talent just by watching them play. As IdrA, among others in the community, have said - in Starcraft, people who aren't talented but who practice a lot can be good, but people who are talented but who never practice can never be good. You don't know how much of Axslav/Incontrol's failures are due to their talent and how much of it is due to the way they train. everything you said i agree. I never said otherwise. I just mentioned that it's not only hard work, but talent as well. I just kept going, because it seems there are people out there who believe talent doesn't exist, which is ridiculous. But I do believe Axslav/incontrol are very limited in their talents compared to top pros. I dont think no one has said talend doesnt exist at all but seriously anyone can get to top 20 in sc2 with 12h training a day with a great coach. I think talent is what determines whos top 1 and whos top 10 player.. And some people can get up there faster than others.. wrong. take my friend for example. He was horrible and bw and sc2. He's talent is very limited. No matter how hard he tries and how much I try to help him he can not break out of platinum. He doesn't have the mechanics and more importantly he doesn't have the fast through process. He's a smart guy, but in sc2 he's just lost.
Enough with the fucking off-topic discussion. Take it to PMs or just stop discussing it entirely.
|
On October 15 2011 01:10 Malstriks wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 01:09 garlicface wrote:On October 15 2011 01:06 Frankon wrote:On October 15 2011 01:00 how2TL wrote:
What is up with the casual LoL hate in the OP?
If you really don't like "easy" games then take it all the way and hate on SC2 for not being BW. What a fucking joke. Waxangel felt offended that the LoL player had higher apm than him... J/K Still the LoL fans can be even heard on SC2 stream. What hate on LoL? It's "depressing" because the LoL crowd is larger than the SC2 crowd. We're fans of SC2, so naturally we want the largest crowd for our game. Can't believe I had to type this out for you (how2TL). What a fucking joke indeed. Let the haters hate. He's a LoL fanboy obviously and is just trying to stir up some drama. Don't give him the pleasure.
I play LoL. I've never watched a stream because it's boring.
I just find it sad that the same people who complain about BW elitism are hypocrites.
You guys are really defensive. I obviously asked a rhetorical question.
|
GO MANA !!! You can do it!
|
On October 15 2011 02:12 DaCruise wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 02:10 Fyzar wrote:
If TT1 goes through instead of MaNa it would be really, really sad ;>. I hope for Mana as well but its only sad if TT1 loses in RO8 with terrible play. If he continues to play well I totally welcome that.
True, but I think we can all agree on that MaNa is overall the superior player. No offense to TT1 of course.
|
On October 15 2011 02:12 DaCruise wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 02:10 Fyzar wrote:
If TT1 goes through instead of MaNa it would be really, really sad ;>. I hope for Mana as well but its only sad if TT1 loses in RO8 with terrible play. If he continues to play well I totally welcome that.
Yeah that's what I'm afraid of; I can't see TT1 beating any Korean, while MaNa if he's actually on his game, can defeat all of them here.
|
On October 15 2011 02:09 ssg wrote:Yeah, he could have killed about everything there. Still came out well on top
Yeah, the positioning of that battle was in the favor of TT1. His concave was so much better.
|
Today there is only this serie and then another PvP left, right ?
|
On October 15 2011 02:10 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 02:05 FinBenton wrote:On October 15 2011 02:00 jj33 wrote:On October 15 2011 01:57 Azarkon wrote:On October 15 2011 01:51 jj33 wrote:On October 15 2011 01:46 SPQR13 wrote:On October 15 2011 01:37 Tarotis wrote:
proven what wrong?
that talent is not a factor?
you're wrong in so many ways. you are denying talent exists?
Yes, I deny exactly that. Everything can be trained and learned if your neurons connect the right way. Dont want to go too deep into that as I cant write that down in english no you are wrong, im sure nature gave some guys some rts game understanding talent, hell, even sc2 game understanding in particular 100% correct. most recent example I can think of is Stephano. He apparently doens't practice much but watching him play and his decision making/understanding of the game (which at the core is strategy) you can clearly see he's very talented. When you watch savior play back in bw days, you can clearly see he had talent as well. I can't believe people here are really trying to say and believe talent is not real. Unbelievable But then again, I also don't see why you're obsessed with talent. You can't tell whether what someone lacks is talent just by watching them play. As IdrA, among others in the community, have said - in Starcraft, people who aren't talented but who practice a lot can be good, but people who are talented but who never practice can never be good. You don't know how much of Axslav/Incontrol's failures are due to their talent and how much of it is due to the way they train. everything you said i agree. I never said otherwise. I just mentioned that it's not only hard work, but talent as well. I just kept going, because it seems there are people out there who believe talent doesn't exist, which is ridiculous. But I do believe Axslav/incontrol are very limited in their talents compared to top pros. I dont think no one has said talend doesnt exist at all but seriously anyone can get to top 20 in sc2 with 12h training a day with a great coach. I think talent is what determines whos top 1 and whos top 10 player.. And some people can get up there faster than others.. wrong. take my friend for example. He was horrible and bw and sc2. He's talent is very limited. No matter how hard he tries and how much I try to help him he can not break out of platinum. He doesn't have the mechanics and more importantly he doesn't have the fast through process. He's a smart guy, but in sc2 he's just lost.
And here's where your argument breaks down.
Mechanics are among the least dependent on talent, and among the most dependent on training.
SC 2 mechanics, especially, which don't really even require very fast hands.
The reason your friend is failing isn't because he lacks talent, it's because he doesn't know how to train his mechanics. Most people don't. But it's the first thing pro players tell you to focus on.
By saying that your friend has crappy mechanics because he isn't talented, you're basically doing him a disservice by not showing him the real way to improve.
|
About TT1, he progressed a lot lately. Not that I followed him specially, but he cost me a lot of liquidbet points recently as I often vote against him. And his recent TLPD is pretty impressive.
|
Come on Mana! You can do this!
|
I can't believe Mana was supply blocked for that long....
|
Are any of these players going to MLG?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
