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United Kingdom38255 Posts
On October 11 2011 06:43 oogieogie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:45 windsupernova wrote:On October 10 2011 21:36 s4life wrote:
One sided match.. but seriously, another zerg winning and important tournament in the last week.. it's getting really hard to argue about zerg being the 'weakest' race... its been like that for a while man. Zergs are hardly a weaker race now. Hell even 2with 20 T in Code S 70% of the Zergs made it into RO16. And this season TvZ in GSL is at 52%. Its only Destiny and idra complaining about Zerg being weak. Hopefully P/Blizzard can figure out stuff more because P is overall doing badly atm. you do know that 52% is good, and shows the matchup is in a pretty good spot? Can anyone give me a summery of all 4 games though?
g1 = Oz goes Nex first ffe, skimps on defence, and Curious barrels through with a roach/ling all in that he borrowed from July (surprise).
[highlight] Curious tanking cannon shots with an overlord to get right up to the wall unscathed.
g2 = best game of the series. OZ with another FFE variation, Curious takes a pretty fast third in response. Both set up on pretty standard unit comps till Curious scouts Oz trying to take a slightly hidden third, he pressures with roaches (but fails to kill the nexus) and follows with a big muta switch knowing that Oz is going to be really stretched thin defensively. Curious kills the third and after some jockeying around the mid + continuous runbys & muta harass he forces a base trade that Oz can't win. Curious eventually brings back his mutas with all the Nexus dead and with some timely speedbanes even cleans up Oz's attacking force.
[highlight] Consistently brilliant forcefields from Oz throughout the game, most notably though to deny a roach bust at his nat wall when caught a little out of position.
g3 = Oz trying a 6gate but getting denied pretty hard, transitioning into an even bigger 2 base blink all in but getting denied even harder by a monster roach/hydra force.
[highlight] Curious multitasking and awareness, sniping out probes and pylons and delaying Oz's initial 6gate push for long enough that he had time to get plenty of units out.
g4 = Oz trying a proxy 2gate on Daybreak. Curious scouts it at the last second, reacts well, and denies it 100%
[highlight] Some nice drone micro and reactions from Curious I guess...
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Game 1: Roach/ling all-in and Oz didn't build enough cannons.
Game 2: Oz committed the unrecoverable error of letting a single zergling into his base to scout everything he was doing and so was forced to take a distant "hidden" third. Curious found the third and transitioned from roaches into mutas to exploit how Oz had to spread out to defend everything. Oz stretched the game out with really insane micro but he was drawing dead regardless of skill after the zergling scout with no real way to recover. Worth a watch for Oz's great micro here.
Game 3: Boring two-base all-in by Oz that got defeated in the usual way. Looked like a ladder game.
Game 4: Oz, exhausted and defeated and with full knowledge that Curious already easily beat his best efforts, does a 2-gate proxy so that he could get off stage as quickly as possible. It was scouted and beaten almost immediately with no fight. Oz: what a jobber.
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damn, i think sage or jyp woulda done better
regardless, curious played well, although he wasnt tested too much
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On October 11 2011 03:42 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 02:21 Belial88 wrote:On October 11 2011 01:53 windsupernova wrote:On October 11 2011 00:28 UserErrOr413 wrote:Congrats to Curious. ST roster starting to look really strong On October 10 2011 22:58 TheEconomist wrote:
Actually, muta ling was figured out about october last year.
its stay on 2 base, get HT n blink stalkers, take 3rd, watch out for tech switch...
It disappeared for a while coz it WAS figured out, and infestors got really popular, now zerg are using more strats again.
Also, resurgence of muta in ZvZ as well... Does anyone else feel this way? I feel like I've seen so many old strats pop-up again recently and people are like wow thats so amazing, but they are things that were figured out and dismantled easily enough before. Not to take anything away from the Curious or other players. This has just been annoying me recently. Well, I am just up to the 2nd game but the thing is that its not really the same Mutaling from last year. Last year it was mostly 2 hatch Muta where the P could either do what was posted or do a heavy gateway push before Mutas were out. Now its mostly 3 Hatch muta, Muta numbers will be super high more quickly and after that they can leverage their advantage into a much higher econ.And well tbh even when it was Muta off 2 Hatches P were having huge problems with that. the phoenix build time buff was done mainly so that P can deal with Mutas The whole Take-Super-Fast-Third vs FFE strat is kind of new, so I think the real strat is taking a super fast third, not muta/ling. I think some people have figured out that muta/ling is a really good way to transition from taking a super fast third. Game 3 was not about Curious' amazing ling/muta usage, but rather the failed hidden base and then Curious getting in huge ling runbys. The former is a weak coinflip, the latter was a blunder not fit for a code A champion, which is exactly why he lost. If that third was just his normal third instead, or he hadn't let those lings run into his base, he would've done much better. Curious was using mostly roach play in that game, and I think he threw up the spire actually as a way to be ready against Colossi. But then he found the hidden third, so he sacced his roaches to kill it. He didn't kill it, but he knew Oz was spread extremely thin, so that mutas would work excellently against someone sticking to gateway units, and he also knew with mutas he could just FF the nexus down. Not really, because zerg's make like 8-15 spine crawlers. You can't afford that with muta/ling, and what good is 15 spines if they don't guard your third? Muta/ling just gets owned by mass gateway timings like 6-7-8 gates that were popular, they get owned by the increased popularity of stargate, they get owned by normal play, and they get owned by archon play. What they do good with, is maps that are very large, maps where the third is 'inside' your base like Crevasse or Terminus, maps where the third is extremely far like Crossfire (or BelShir beach when you make your 4th your third) where you can force the enemy to have to run back and forth to protect their base, and when your opponent has an extremely low stalker count and you want to exploit it. Yeah thats what i was saying. Old MutaBling was 2 base MutaBling, then 3rd base. Right now Zergs can take a super early 3rd and saturate it(even against gateway openings) and then transition into Muta. What changed was indeed the early 3rd.
Good analysis and points. I guess I'm thinking of people seeing 3 base muta and going: omg mutas in ZvP this is so revolutionary and unheard of, why don't other pros do that. Things like that. Not that it isn't different, timings and builds are much more refined and thought out by the pros these days, but thats not really what I was thinking about.
I actually think its really cool pros are going back to old theory and trying different refined timings and builds. It just bothers me when people show up and go; Why the heck don't all terrans do Maruader Hellion pushes or Zergs go Muta now in ZvP?? This is so ingenious and never been done before.
Maybe I'm just being a bit to cranky though.
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Well deserved win by Curious. Will be looking forward to seeing his games in code S next season.
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On October 11 2011 06:51 Kinky wrote:If this Code A final was one-sided, does that mean the Code S finals will finally be close? 
Not unless MVP loses to nestea ><
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On October 11 2011 08:28 Talack wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 06:51 Kinky wrote:If this Code A final was one-sided, does that mean the Code S finals will finally be close? Not unless MVP loses to nestea ><
If mvp wins, he has a good chance to win this GSL...never under-estimate tvt..
if nestea wins, he has already won.
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On October 11 2011 09:30 Sc2Null wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 08:28 Talack wrote:On October 11 2011 06:51 Kinky wrote:If this Code A final was one-sided, does that mean the Code S finals will finally be close? Not unless MVP loses to nestea >< If mvp wins, he has a good chance to win this GSL...never under-estimate tvt.. if nestea wins, he has already won.
I wouldn't be so sure, his games vs. Virus were quite close and Virus doesn't really stack up to the other Terrans left.
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pretty awful final, i totally disagree with ffe as i think it leaves you open to far to much bs.. proved right in this series.
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Geez it was painful to watch game 3 where Oz losing his 7 gate timing because he locked himself out of his base without a probe to build forward pylons. Then he transitioned into 9 gate.. Sigh.
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It's interesting to me how few Koreans play the very slow macro-style deathball protoss. I've seen so many ZvPs with FFE into 6-gate, blink timing, stargate, etc, but very few that move out (to force units), move back and take a third, tech to collosus and then templar or voidrays and then keep taking bases. Zergs have learned to deal with 2-base timing pushes pretty damn well. Infestors got nerfed to balance out ZvP, but the Koreans aren't taking advantage of it by sitting back and building six collosi.
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On October 11 2011 09:30 Sc2Null wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 08:28 Talack wrote:On October 11 2011 06:51 Kinky wrote:If this Code A final was one-sided, does that mean the Code S finals will finally be close? Not unless MVP loses to nestea >< If mvp wins, he has a good chance to win this GSL...never under-estimate tvt.. if nestea wins, he has already won.
I dunno there are some beast terrans left that could beat nestea. Nobody left has TvT on the same level as MVP in a best of 7 IMO.
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Again, not surprised. What surprised me was that a protoss even got to the finals - then again it was a PVP semi, so a little luck lol
Man this is a sad, sad, time for protoss. With IPL being a ZvZ - it was looking pretty grim other than code A - and we couldn't quite secure a win here. I highly doubt MLG will change my mind on this one.
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EPT
