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On October 06 2011 03:25 Asha` wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 03:24 MrCon wrote:On October 06 2011 03:19 feanor1 wrote:On October 06 2011 02:44 MrCon wrote:
Man, no GSL for 2 days now, HOW WILL I SURVIVE ? :D IPL ORIGNINS aww yah OMG you're so right ! It starts tomorrow ? It's not in the calendar. When will companies learn that the TL calendar is at least as important as 3 months of megahype and Gordon Hayward in term of viewers' impact :D There's a countdown on every page since there's a timer up in the banner area itself =p Apparently not that noticeable though heh?
Ha yeah that's true haha...and I just posted in the IPL thread to ask them to put the event in the calendar haha.
I'm so bad 
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Wow, what an amazing day of games, ruined for me only somewhat by artosis rambling on about nestea over and over.
The commentary was awesome, which means the games must've been good as Tastosis weren't talking about their favourite colour during the key battles...just exceptional series, wow.
Happy to see Mvp Crush Bomber with mech and show that style remains relevent.
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On October 06 2011 03:18 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 02:57 Krewli wrote:On October 06 2011 02:52 fraktoasters wrote:On October 06 2011 02:18 Mortal wrote:On October 06 2011 01:56 bucckevin wrote:On October 06 2011 01:46 Mortal wrote:On October 06 2011 01:38 LLuke wrote:On October 06 2011 01:31 epoc wrote:On October 06 2011 00:02 Trizz wrote:
4/4 liquidbet aww yeah, just as i predicted.
supernova is underrated and dongreagu's zvt is being figured out. What the hell does "donraegu's zvt is being figured out" mean? People watch Dongraegu, find holes in his play, and abuse this holes. AOL Spoilers + Show Spoiler + Like MKP did with Hellions, as DRG rarely goes roaches. uh, rarely goes roaches? are you forgetting that he literally was one of the, if not the very first, zerg in korea to do a roach opening on 2 base (7-8 roaches) to counter the new hellion/marine style? maybe do a little research first ROFL this must be a joke. 7 roach rush has been there since....forever. you are so dumb it's mind-bottling. notice i said off of 2 BASES. 7rr is a terrible 1 base build. completely different I remember Sheth doing a 7rr off 2 bases a lot. This was a long time ago. He even did it in NASL vs TLO and blind countered the 6rax with it. On October 06 2011 02:38 SafeAsCheese wrote:
Man it owuld have been epic if NesTea was knocked out as well and 7T in the top 8 It's 6 Terrans, Nestea, and Coca who didn't have to play a Terran. I hope after today people would stop it with bashing Nestea on his ZvT. Leenock's and DRG's ZvT looks mighty good I'm sure when they're in Code A/GSTL but Nestea has been playing Code S level Terrans since forever so his ZvT is naturally going to look worse. On October 06 2011 02:38 Greggle wrote:On October 06 2011 02:21 Ysellian wrote:On October 06 2011 02:09 Darksoldierr wrote:
If Virus take a game off nestea, he has no chance at all beating mvp. I just cannot imagine it happening specially after last season's 2-0 I cannot imagine MVP losing against anyone anymore. Except Tails :p Good thing he won't have to face a Protoss for a while. You can't just look at the results, you have to look at the games. Leenock and DRG played a lot better than Nestea today. Nestea should probably have lost the series 2-0 if alive didnt fuck up in game 1. Nestea has a lot to learn from DRG and Leenock. He needs much better unit control and multitasking. And of course the otherway around. I think the top zergs need to sit down together and come up with something really good against terrans. No. I think his multitask and control is fine for the most part. Today's games felt like a step down from previous matches. He shut down the majority of MMA's drops in their most recent encounter. The problem I feel Nestea has is that he's too defensive at times. Whereas you'll have players like July/Drg/Leenock who aren't afraid to capitalize on clear openings to put on aggression, Nestea seems to prefer acting like a brick wall and whoring drones. He isn't as active with his mutas or lings.
This is what I mean with him having bad multitasking and unit control. He too passive and terran can play super greedy while he still play the same. He is often passive with his mutas which seems kind of odd because they are not combat units, they are harass units. And often he just a-move all his lings/banes into a siege line without any flanks at all (see game vs mma in ro32) and losira has the same problem. It seems to be a problem with the IM zergs, they are just donating units for free and not even trying to be as cost effective as they can. Losira is always been trying to counter attack or just a-move a bunch of lings/banes into marine/tanks and it's obvious they are both lacking in zvt even though they have great terrans on their team.
MVP usually plays greedy in his tvz but I haven't seen Nestea taking advantages of it, he just sticks to standard play and gets rolled even though they are in the same team and should know each others gameplay.
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Awwww, I went to bed right before DRG lost
However, the games today were quite awesome. MVP somehow pulling ahead after being behind from some terrible mech vs bio engagements was quite fun to watch. Nestea barely edged out a tense victory over Virus. Leenock may have lost, but he did so in spectacular and epic fashion.
And now DRG is out of a season where he could have displayed the brilliance of his ZvT over and over again. Nestea and Coca are our non-Terran hopes for now.
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My prediction for ro8 would be
Nestea vs Mvp 0-3
Ganzi vs Supernova 3-1
MMA vs Clide 3-1
Happy vs Coca 3-1
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Nestea vs Mvp yet AGAIN haha. 1-8 record, hmmmmmmm who to bet on. Your guess is as good as mine.
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On October 06 2011 02:49 hugman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 02:37 Leifish wrote:On October 06 2011 02:18 Mortal wrote:On October 06 2011 01:56 bucckevin wrote:On October 06 2011 01:46 Mortal wrote:On October 06 2011 01:38 LLuke wrote:On October 06 2011 01:31 epoc wrote:On October 06 2011 00:02 Trizz wrote:
4/4 liquidbet aww yeah, just as i predicted.
supernova is underrated and dongreagu's zvt is being figured out. What the hell does "donraegu's zvt is being figured out" mean? People watch Dongraegu, find holes in his play, and abuse this holes. AOL Spoilers + Show Spoiler + Like MKP did with Hellions, as DRG rarely goes roaches. uh, rarely goes roaches? are you forgetting that he literally was one of the, if not the very first, zerg in korea to do a roach opening on 2 base (7-8 roaches) to counter the new hellion/marine style? maybe do a little research first ROFL this must be a joke. 7 roach rush has been there since....forever. you are so dumb it's mind-bottling. notice i said off of 2 BASES. 7rr is a terrible 1 base build. completely different "you are so dumb it's mind-bottling." Not sure if troll. 't' is next to 'g' Maybe that's giving him too much credit
Its a quote from the movie blades of glory  I assume thats what he was aiming for myself
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glad to see nestea mvp bo5!!!
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so at this point it's looking like mvp mma finals, or at least an mvp vs terran finals. i hope it's mma mvp because their last series (geforce proam grand finals) was amazing.
i'd be really surprised if nestea beat mvp next week.
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...So the one season I decide not to buy a season ticket the best day ever happens? Seriously?
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I don't really understand why people are saying Supernova figured out DRG. Game 1 was extremely 1-sided untill DRG for some reason suicided his ultras twice because he clearly thought he had won the game and nothing could hurt him. Game 2 was just amazing and DRG was (slightly) more careful with ultras this time. It should have been 2-0. A silly mistake in game 3 with the helions getting made it 1-2 instead.
Supernova's builds were all extremely standard, I can believe Bomber may have figured out DRG, Supernova did not, he did however show extremely solid play against, IMO, the best ZvT player in the world by quite a large margin.
In fact I dont think Supernova made an obvious mistake that whole series, and DRG still effectively managed to win 2 games. Despite DRG losing, for me these games showed how good he is, not how overrated.
Nestea however was quite lucky to beat Virus, though brilliant in the other matchups, his ZvT has never seemed that good to me and today was no exception. Though I have to say Game 3 was very cleverly salvaged.
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On October 06 2011 03:35 Krewli wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 03:18 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On October 06 2011 02:57 Krewli wrote:On October 06 2011 02:52 fraktoasters wrote:On October 06 2011 02:18 Mortal wrote:On October 06 2011 01:56 bucckevin wrote:On October 06 2011 01:46 Mortal wrote:On October 06 2011 01:38 LLuke wrote:On October 06 2011 01:31 epoc wrote:On October 06 2011 00:02 Trizz wrote:
4/4 liquidbet aww yeah, just as i predicted.
supernova is underrated and dongreagu's zvt is being figured out. What the hell does "donraegu's zvt is being figured out" mean? People watch Dongraegu, find holes in his play, and abuse this holes. AOL Spoilers + Show Spoiler + Like MKP did with Hellions, as DRG rarely goes roaches. uh, rarely goes roaches? are you forgetting that he literally was one of the, if not the very first, zerg in korea to do a roach opening on 2 base (7-8 roaches) to counter the new hellion/marine style? maybe do a little research first ROFL this must be a joke. 7 roach rush has been there since....forever. you are so dumb it's mind-bottling. notice i said off of 2 BASES. 7rr is a terrible 1 base build. completely different I remember Sheth doing a 7rr off 2 bases a lot. This was a long time ago. He even did it in NASL vs TLO and blind countered the 6rax with it. On October 06 2011 02:38 SafeAsCheese wrote:
Man it owuld have been epic if NesTea was knocked out as well and 7T in the top 8 It's 6 Terrans, Nestea, and Coca who didn't have to play a Terran. I hope after today people would stop it with bashing Nestea on his ZvT. Leenock's and DRG's ZvT looks mighty good I'm sure when they're in Code A/GSTL but Nestea has been playing Code S level Terrans since forever so his ZvT is naturally going to look worse. On October 06 2011 02:38 Greggle wrote:On October 06 2011 02:21 Ysellian wrote:On October 06 2011 02:09 Darksoldierr wrote:
If Virus take a game off nestea, he has no chance at all beating mvp. I just cannot imagine it happening specially after last season's 2-0 I cannot imagine MVP losing against anyone anymore. Except Tails :p Good thing he won't have to face a Protoss for a while. You can't just look at the results, you have to look at the games. Leenock and DRG played a lot better than Nestea today. Nestea should probably have lost the series 2-0 if alive didnt fuck up in game 1. Nestea has a lot to learn from DRG and Leenock. He needs much better unit control and multitasking. And of course the otherway around. I think the top zergs need to sit down together and come up with something really good against terrans. No. I think his multitask and control is fine for the most part. Today's games felt like a step down from previous matches. He shut down the majority of MMA's drops in their most recent encounter. The problem I feel Nestea has is that he's too defensive at times. Whereas you'll have players like July/Drg/Leenock who aren't afraid to capitalize on clear openings to put on aggression, Nestea seems to prefer acting like a brick wall and whoring drones. He isn't as active with his mutas or lings. This is what I mean with him having bad multitasking and unit control. He too passive and terran can play super greedy while he still play the same. He is often passive with his mutas which seems kind of odd because they are not combat units, they are harass units. And often he just a-move all his lings/banes into a siege line without any flanks at all (see game vs mma in ro32) and losira has the same problem. It seems to be a problem with the IM zergs, they are just donating units for free and not even trying to be as cost effective as they can. Losira is always been trying to counter attack or just a-move a bunch of lings/banes into marine/tanks and it's obvious they are both lacking in zvt even though they have great terrans on their team. MVP usually plays greedy in his tvz but I haven't seen Nestea taking advantages of it, he just sticks to standard play and gets rolled even though they are in the same team and should know each others gameplay.
Losira has better multitasking than both DRG and Coca. He is insanely fast and most of his apm isn't even spam. His multitasking is in fact downright incredible. He just has poor decision making and expansion timing in ZvT from the games I watch.
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On October 06 2011 02:58 fraktoasters wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 02:54 SafeAsCheese wrote:On October 06 2011 02:52 fraktoasters wrote:On October 06 2011 02:18 Mortal wrote:On October 06 2011 01:56 bucckevin wrote:On October 06 2011 01:46 Mortal wrote:On October 06 2011 01:38 LLuke wrote:On October 06 2011 01:31 epoc wrote:On October 06 2011 00:02 Trizz wrote:
4/4 liquidbet aww yeah, just as i predicted.
supernova is underrated and dongreagu's zvt is being figured out. What the hell does "donraegu's zvt is being figured out" mean? People watch Dongraegu, find holes in his play, and abuse this holes. AOL Spoilers + Show Spoiler + Like MKP did with Hellions, as DRG rarely goes roaches. uh, rarely goes roaches? are you forgetting that he literally was one of the, if not the very first, zerg in korea to do a roach opening on 2 base (7-8 roaches) to counter the new hellion/marine style? maybe do a little research first ROFL this must be a joke. 7 roach rush has been there since....forever. you are so dumb it's mind-bottling. notice i said off of 2 BASES. 7rr is a terrible 1 base build. completely different I remember Sheth doing a 7rr off 2 bases a lot. This was a long time ago. He even did it in NASL vs TLO and blind countered the 6rax with it. On October 06 2011 02:38 SafeAsCheese wrote:
Man it owuld have been epic if NesTea was knocked out as well and 7T in the top 8 It's 6 Terrans, Nestea, and Coca who didn't have to play a Terran. I hope after today people would stop it with bashing Nestea on his ZvT. Leenock's and DRG's ZvT looks mighty good I'm sure when they're in Code A/GSTL but Nestea has been playing Code S level Terrans since forever so his ZvT is naturally going to look worse. On October 06 2011 02:38 Greggle wrote:On October 06 2011 02:21 Ysellian wrote:On October 06 2011 02:09 Darksoldierr wrote:
If Virus take a game off nestea, he has no chance at all beating mvp. I just cannot imagine it happening specially after last season's 2-0 I cannot imagine MVP losing against anyone anymore. Except Tails :p Good thing he won't have to face a Protoss for a while. NesTea played Virus, one of the weaker terrans, and went 2-1 >_> Exactly what has Ganzi and Supernova accomplished that Virus hasn't? .. other than receiving hype from Artosis.
For ganzi :
-made apparitions in GSLT and actually won some games (I think virus once and lost)
-won against strong opponents (remember who take out MvP out of the super tournament ?)
-made impressives shows (win the final of code A is not that easy)
Wheras virus cling in code S for like forever (like ensnare), and is always on the weakest groups, and get elimineted in Ro16 or before. I think the best achievement of virus is to manage to take a game off clide in the Ro32...
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Sad DRG and Leenock lost 1-2, o well I hope NesTea and Coca can make the semi's not TvTvTvT.
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Maybe I am missing something here but if DRG would have rallied some lings to Novas base after his proxy rax fail I think he would have won right there. Supernova was like yeah let me expand with no wallin no units except 1 marine and no production cause his rax was floating for ages. His bunker seemed way too late against 1 base zerg and you can always just cancel the expo or run past the bunker with 1 marine.
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On October 06 2011 04:01 MattBarry wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 03:35 Krewli wrote:On October 06 2011 03:18 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On October 06 2011 02:57 Krewli wrote:On October 06 2011 02:52 fraktoasters wrote:On October 06 2011 02:18 Mortal wrote:On October 06 2011 01:56 bucckevin wrote:On October 06 2011 01:46 Mortal wrote:On October 06 2011 01:38 LLuke wrote:On October 06 2011 01:31 epoc wrote:
[quote]
What the hell does "donraegu's zvt is being figured out" mean? People watch Dongraegu, find holes in his play, and abuse this holes. AOL Spoilers + Show Spoiler + Like MKP did with Hellions, as DRG rarely goes roaches. uh, rarely goes roaches? are you forgetting that he literally was one of the, if not the very first, zerg in korea to do a roach opening on 2 base (7-8 roaches) to counter the new hellion/marine style? maybe do a little research first ROFL this must be a joke. 7 roach rush has been there since....forever. you are so dumb it's mind-bottling. notice i said off of 2 BASES. 7rr is a terrible 1 base build. completely different I remember Sheth doing a 7rr off 2 bases a lot. This was a long time ago. He even did it in NASL vs TLO and blind countered the 6rax with it. On October 06 2011 02:38 SafeAsCheese wrote:
Man it owuld have been epic if NesTea was knocked out as well and 7T in the top 8 It's 6 Terrans, Nestea, and Coca who didn't have to play a Terran. I hope after today people would stop it with bashing Nestea on his ZvT. Leenock's and DRG's ZvT looks mighty good I'm sure when they're in Code A/GSTL but Nestea has been playing Code S level Terrans since forever so his ZvT is naturally going to look worse. On October 06 2011 02:38 Greggle wrote:On October 06 2011 02:21 Ysellian wrote:On October 06 2011 02:09 Darksoldierr wrote:
If Virus take a game off nestea, he has no chance at all beating mvp. I just cannot imagine it happening specially after last season's 2-0 I cannot imagine MVP losing against anyone anymore. Except Tails :p Good thing he won't have to face a Protoss for a while. You can't just look at the results, you have to look at the games. Leenock and DRG played a lot better than Nestea today. Nestea should probably have lost the series 2-0 if alive didnt fuck up in game 1. Nestea has a lot to learn from DRG and Leenock. He needs much better unit control and multitasking. And of course the otherway around. I think the top zergs need to sit down together and come up with something really good against terrans. No. I think his multitask and control is fine for the most part. Today's games felt like a step down from previous matches. He shut down the majority of MMA's drops in their most recent encounter. The problem I feel Nestea has is that he's too defensive at times. Whereas you'll have players like July/Drg/Leenock who aren't afraid to capitalize on clear openings to put on aggression, Nestea seems to prefer acting like a brick wall and whoring drones. He isn't as active with his mutas or lings. This is what I mean with him having bad multitasking and unit control. He too passive and terran can play super greedy while he still play the same. He is often passive with his mutas which seems kind of odd because they are not combat units, they are harass units. And often he just a-move all his lings/banes into a siege line without any flanks at all (see game vs mma in ro32) and losira has the same problem. It seems to be a problem with the IM zergs, they are just donating units for free and not even trying to be as cost effective as they can. Losira is always been trying to counter attack or just a-move a bunch of lings/banes into marine/tanks and it's obvious they are both lacking in zvt even though they have great terrans on their team. MVP usually plays greedy in his tvz but I haven't seen Nestea taking advantages of it, he just sticks to standard play and gets rolled even though they are in the same team and should know each others gameplay. Losira has better multitasking than both DRG and Coca. He is insanely fast and most of his apm isn't even spam. His multitasking is in fact downright incredible. He just has poor decision making and expansion timing in ZvT from the games I watch.
I agree, losira, drg and july (havent seen much of coca to have an opinion as of yet) have top 3 zerg multitasking imo but losira has sometimes (often in zvt) really bad decision making and that's where Nestea really shines in his zvt but Nestea doesn't have the multitasking. I would say the absolute best zvter atm is drg because he has great multitasking and great decision making but the longer the game goes on and terran gets more upgrades the worse it looks for drg because he stays on muta/ling/bling too long but on the other hand zergs hive tech is pretty damn weak imo. I would like to see drg burrow more banelings because he plays so muta heavy and low banelingcount, burrow would be really good and Leenock showed some great banemines today. But I don't see much flaw in drgs zvt atm. As drg said in an interview recently (the one from valencia I think) that a turling terran is the most fearsome because they have rocksolid defense units/structures and there is not much you can do as a zerg and it seems to become more and more popular on korean server to play a more passive macro game as terran and also more and more mech with ghosts/hsm.
July is great against terran, sometimes he's playing like a beast and sometimes I don't understand him at all so his decision making is inconsistent I would say but fucking awesome to watch anyway because he doesn't play zerg like anyone else.
Curious showed some epic games in code a ro4 against Gumiho and I think he will become top 3 zerg soon. He has great potential.
To be honest I don't have much faith in the IM zergs atm. It doesn't seem they have evolving much at all lately in primarly zvt. I think DRG, Coca, Curious and hopefully julyzerg are the zerg hope.
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On October 06 2011 01:25 bucckevin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 00:53 Jumbled wrote:On October 06 2011 00:50 Bagi wrote:
DRG is a good player and belongs in Code S, but there is no doubt in my mind that the foreigner community overrates him. That's what happens when a Korean player takes part in many foreigner tournaments, HerO is similar.
Nestea, Losira, July and Coca are all better than him. DRG initially became popular because some of his play was streamed on TL and showcased some pretty innovative Zerg tactics. You have got to be kidding. DRG and innovative do not go together. He's just really good at standard Muta/ling/bling and taking a quick 3rd against Terran. His vP is bad and vZ is ok. DRG got overhyped because TL is full of zerg players and they wanted a new hope that was not Terran or Nestea.
LOL did you even watch DRG stream? he was known for his incredible decision making and innovative play on his stream. Stop making shit up bro.
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Omg the one day I am too sleepy to watch GSL .. ):
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Good games but kinda sad even the best zerg in the world very nearly loses to like the 10-15th best terran.. and the rest of the zergs lose including the 2nd best zerg, and best ZvTer, to another mid tier terran. You never see like the 10-15th best zerg in the world beating mvp and bomber in best of 3s, yet its somehow fine for terrans to do that...
So many terrans in the top 8 is just sad... Either this game really isn't balanced or korean terrans are just so much better than the zergs/protosses which I kinda doubt...
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On October 06 2011 01:30 sitromit wrote:
"Nestea's worst matchup is his ZvT"
"Losira lost because his ZvT sucks"
"DRG is overrated, he's no good"
"July is no good, his ZvT is bad, he could have won, but just engaged really badly in that game!"
"Leenock's TvZ is overrated, he played poorly"
"Zerg Player X lost to poor engagements, it's his fault, he lost too many Mutas that one time"
Is there a Zerg who can consistently win against Code S Terrans anymore? All these players are just bad at ZvT, and all the Code S Terrans are just geniuses with overflowing talent?
How many games have we seen lately where the Zerg with massive supply/worker advantage can't close the game?
How many games have we seen where Terran doesn't kill a single Drone, but is ahead of Zerg in macro and can afford to keep throwing away armies until the Zerg can't keep up anymore?
And how many games have we seen, where Terran had a 20 food supply advantage, and couldn't win the game?
Why is it that it's always the Zerg player who loses due to "poor engagements"?
I think this is an interesting comment. I'm not talking about the fact that it seems to be instigating a balance whine, but the fact that people do complain that people don't have good zvt when no one seems to have good zvt... how can you say someones zvt is bad if its better than everyone else's?
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EPT
