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Wow, tuned into Supernova winning!!! 
I must admit I didn't expect him to win - Azzur of little faith!
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On October 05 2011 23:26 Let it Raine wrote:
people win and people lose
this day didnt show that anything is op
if anything it shows how good terrans can be if they sit back and do nothing aggressive besides drops till max.
which is something EVERY race needs to understand... the easiest and most guaranteed way of beating zerg is to actually do as little as possible till max food.
Yeah just wait till max supply as zerg and proceed to instalose vs any terran unit comp. You give good advice
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On October 05 2011 23:38 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 23:35 TolEranceNA wrote:
Mediocre terrans give the highest tier zerg a hard time, balanced MU? I don't see how anymore can state that. How can you say he is mediocre terran after those games? IMO, supernova played better than DRG regardless the race. Better strategy and starsense won him the game, which have nothing to do with race.
When did i say Supernova is the mediocre terran? You sir need to stop putting words in my mouth, i was refering to Virus vs Nestea. As we all know, Nestea's vT was never amazing, but, as the best zerg player, having trouble beating a mediocre terran like Virus is truly amazing (hint hint not).
It is about one race having more options than the other, not necessary balance, but poor design. As Dustin said, Terran is the only complete race.
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On October 05 2011 23:42 shadymmj wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 23:37 UserErrOr413 wrote:On October 05 2011 23:20 shadymmj wrote:
I seriously had no opinion whatsoever on this "dong" zerg guy (although his name is rather similar to the true king of zerg), but after tuning in for the half of game 2 and all of game 3, he comes off to me as a guy who just...suddenly gives up. And I mean fantasy-esque gg timings right there.
Watched supernova hold on for so long on 4 bases for most of the game, think he did a great job although he lost, but he turned it into a great game anyhow. And dong had pull to out the /dance, okay fair enough - we're good sports, but he proceeded to get promptly beaten in the 3rd set without even putting up a fight.
I don't blame people for playing badly and losing, but if you drone drilled and lost too much, then maybe you should just gg right there and everyone would understand. If you decide to play on, then play on. Not lose a couple units and then gg...only fantasy is allowed to do that.
Supernova played with a sizeable disadvantage in income and still gave it all he got. Dong dude just flat out quit. Not looking forward to him again. Maybe it's the overhype. At least idra is a colourful personality outside the game. Wut? I though fantasy GG timing was continuing to drag out a game even though it was clear you had lost ages ago. Which isn't really the same thing as giving up. Am I missing something? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195375 kinda, in the sense that you play on...without actually playing. then you suddenly realise you should gg. that's what i meant, and that's exactly what happened for a bit.
he was straight up fucking dead. What are you complaining about? Best Gold leaguer analysis of the day, jesus christ.
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On October 05 2011 23:36 Herry wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 23:29 Eternalmisfit wrote:On October 05 2011 23:23 RedDragon571 wrote:On October 05 2011 23:17 Herry wrote:On October 05 2011 23:14 RedDragon571 wrote:On October 05 2011 23:11 aebriol wrote:On October 05 2011 23:06 iamthedave wrote:On October 05 2011 23:04 aebriol wrote:On October 05 2011 23:03 FallDownMarigold wrote:
Supernova best Terran in the world? Well ... rather, korean terrans showing their dominance? Coca and NesTea, and one of them went through a Protoss ... and NesTea had problems, but managed, 2-1 vs a mediocre Terran. Since when was Supernova a top Terran? DRG isn't as good as people say he is. Simple as that. Where did I wrote that Supernova is a top Terran? He isn't. The point is that for mediocre code S players (ie - better than all foreigners), Terrans can beat the good but not great players pretty much consistently. DRG isn't as good as some people want to say ... he is only the 2nd best ZvT in the world, and likely the second best Zerg in the world though. Some people have hyped him beyond that, which I don't think is fair. I think that is because zerg has a big eco advantage but marines with medvecs can kill 10x there cost before they get killed of. Maybe lacking in the descision-making and strategy department against code s terrans, which he is inexperienced. You gotta admit DRG has without a doubt the best zerg mechanics, multitasking and unit control in the world. You never see an idle unit for DRG, he is always mobile, playing to zerg strengths. :D exactly, and even with great mechanics like that and being one of the best zergs in SC2, he can still be easily beaten by an army controlled by mid-tier terrans. Doesnt matter what Units he makes. Once Terrans get to a certain point its just almost impossible to kill them. Watch DRG vs Bomber at MLG on Shakuras and you'll see exactly what i mean. that may say more about game design than anything. Code S terrans are favored against the other races and the maps are particularly good for terran this season. I think even the best zergs in the world are fighting an uphill battle against code S terrans. Leenok lost, Nestea went 2-1 to virus, BARELY winning the last game. DRG played great but really I didn't have the tools to deal with code s terran play. terrans a bit op atm and until a patch or HOTS comes out, baring walking helions  . Maybe things will shape up better, balance and game design wise. The maps used today were Daybreak, Dual Sight, Crossfire, and Metal. Daybreak and Crossfire are mostly zerg favored. All metal games had cross spawns which is neutral/slightly zerg favored. Dual sight is 53-47 which is close to balanced. This season ZvT is 10-11 which is close to 50% Today ZvT was 4-5 which is also close to 50% There were no 2rax (except 1 completely botched attempts), no bunker play, only 2 games had mass BFH (one was lost by T), only 1 game had ghost snipes (which was lost by T). Pretty, none of this considered 'OP' came into play today. Despite all this, people still go about QQing about balance in TvZ matchup. We are talking about Late game mechanics. not about Mid-game or Early game which is where 80% of GSL games are played out and subsequently where most of the statistics come from. seriously, watch DRG vs Bomber on Shakuras. Given every unit and every upgrade no way DRG could beat him. Zerg so badly needs swarm again. so so badly. ultras just get owned so quickly. I miss BW 
shakuras is the best map in the pool for split-map turtle terran by a wide margin. once a position is gained at the center of the map, the terran has access to 5 safe bases with the opposite pocket being fairly easy to take as well. the north south middle bases are hard for either player to mine from safely, and a couple planetaries in the center completely zone out zerg ground forces. that map is a horrible example to use for turtle style tvz.
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On October 05 2011 23:20 shadymmj wrote:
I seriously had no opinion whatsoever on this "dong" zerg guy (although his name is rather similar to the true king of zerg), but after tuning in for the half of game 2 and all of game 3, he comes off to me as a guy who just...suddenly gives up. And I mean fantasy-esque gg timings right there.
Watched supernova hold on for so long on 4 bases for most of the game, think he did a great job although he lost, but he turned it into a great game anyhow. And dong had pull to out the /dance, okay fair enough - we're good sports, but he proceeded to get promptly beaten in the 3rd set without even putting up a fight.
I don't blame people for playing badly and losing, but if you drone drilled and lost too much, then maybe you should just gg right there and everyone would understand. If you decide to play on, then play on. Not lose a couple units and then gg...only fantasy is allowed to do that.
Supernova played with a sizeable disadvantage in income and still gave it all he got. Dong dude just flat out quit. Not looking forward to him again. Maybe it's the overhype. At least idra is a colourful personality outside the game.
You do know that back in BW days DDR and Idra were in the same team and practiced together?
They also both played Terran there and both think Terran is weak in BW :D
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On October 05 2011 23:43 epoc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 23:26 Let it Raine wrote:
people win and people lose
this day didnt show that anything is op
if anything it shows how good terrans can be if they sit back and do nothing aggressive besides drops till max.
which is something EVERY race needs to understand... the easiest and most guaranteed way of beating zerg is to actually do as little as possible till max food. Yeah just wait till max supply as zerg and proceed to instalose vs any terran unit comp. You give good advice
and you don´t read very well.
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On October 05 2011 23:44 TolEranceNA wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 23:38 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:On October 05 2011 23:35 TolEranceNA wrote:
Mediocre terrans give the highest tier zerg a hard time, balanced MU? I don't see how anymore can state that. How can you say he is mediocre terran after those games? IMO, supernova played better than DRG regardless the race. Better strategy and starsense won him the game, which have nothing to do with race. When did i say Supernova is the mediocre terran? You sir need to stop putting words in my mouth, i was refering to Virus vs Nestea. As we all know, Nestea's vT was never amazing, but, as the best zerg player, having trouble beating a mediocre terran like Virus is truly amazing (hint hint not). It is about one race having more options than the other, not necessary balance, but poor design. As Dustin said, Terran is the only complete race.
that's ridiculous. boxer had trouble against some mediocre tosses in his prime, but no one doubted he was the best. neither was toss underpowered. it's a learn to play sort of thing.
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Weee Terrans winning ! Balanced Race !
Edit: Hopefully next round Nestea and Coca are out so we can watch Terrans only.
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On October 05 2011 23:34 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 23:22 nofacej wrote:On October 05 2011 23:16 ladyumbra wrote:On October 05 2011 23:10 nofacej wrote:
I'm actually sick of hearing Tastosis talk about Nestea. I'm usually a big fan of Tastosis, and enjoy their hyping, but it's just getting ridiculous. To the point where I actually want Mvp to humiliate Nestea and stretch his record vs him to 11-1. Seriously? It's fine to be frustrated with the bias you feel casters may have and how much they express it but wishing for a player to lose to punish the casters is your response? It's not to punish the casters or the player, it's just that Tastosis' hyping of Nestea has actually lowered my enjoyment of the show. Hell, Tasteless even introduced Virus as "The Victim" in the game Virus took off Nestea. If the only thing that will cause them to stop overhyping Nestea is for him to be eliminated then I want that to happen. It's a shame because I really like watching Nestea play, and I used to root for him back when Terrans and Protosses were crushing every other Zerg. Those hypes from Artosis are overkill for me too. And I also don't understand why isn't he give equal amount of hypes to MVP. MVP is even more solid than Nestea.
I'm sure Artosis knows MVP is better than Nestea, he even said on SoTG that MVP is playing on a higher level than anyone else in SC2. He's just a bigger fan of Nestea.
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Team breakdown moving into the round of 8.
IM : 3 Players ( 2T, 1Z)
Slayers : 3 Players (2T,1Z)
OGS: 1 Terran
TSL: 1 Terran
Interesting notes:
Due to bracket placement both IM and Slayers can have a teamkill finals.
Both IM and SlayerS lost only one player moving from round of 16 to round of 8 ( although Happy vs Losira was a teamkill)
2 IM beat Startale players.
2 Slayers players beat FXO players
All 3 IM players moving on were the winners of their ro32 groups
2 Slayers players moving on won thier ro32 groups , mma was second in his group.
Clide is a boss!
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On October 05 2011 23:31 j0ker wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 23:23 RedDragon571 wrote:On October 05 2011 23:17 Herry wrote:On October 05 2011 23:14 RedDragon571 wrote:On October 05 2011 23:11 aebriol wrote:On October 05 2011 23:06 iamthedave wrote:On October 05 2011 23:04 aebriol wrote:On October 05 2011 23:03 FallDownMarigold wrote:
Supernova best Terran in the world? Well ... rather, korean terrans showing their dominance? Coca and NesTea, and one of them went through a Protoss ... and NesTea had problems, but managed, 2-1 vs a mediocre Terran. Since when was Supernova a top Terran? DRG isn't as good as people say he is. Simple as that. Where did I wrote that Supernova is a top Terran? He isn't. The point is that for mediocre code S players (ie - better than all foreigners), Terrans can beat the good but not great players pretty much consistently. DRG isn't as good as some people want to say ... he is only the 2nd best ZvT in the world, and likely the second best Zerg in the world though. Some people have hyped him beyond that, which I don't think is fair. Maybe lacking in the descision-making and strategy department against code s terrans, which he is inexperienced. You gotta admit DRG has without a doubt the best zerg mechanics, multitasking and unit control in the world. You never see an idle unit for DRG, he is always mobile, playing to zerg strengths. :D exactly, and even with great mechanics like that and being one of the best zergs in SC2, he can still be easily beaten by an army controlled by mid-tier terrans. Doesnt matter what Units he makes. Once Terrans get to a certain point its just almost impossible to kill them. Watch DRG vs Bomber at MLG on Shakuras and you'll see exactly what i mean. that may say more about game design than anything. Code S terrans are favored against the other races and the maps are particularly good for terran this season. I think even the best zergs in the world are fighting an uphill battle against code S terrans. Leenok lost, Nestea went 2-1 to virus, BARELY winning the last game. DRG played great but really I didn't have the tools to deal with code s terran play. terrans a bit op atm and until a patch or HOTS comes out, baring walking helions . Maybe things will shape up better, balance and game design wise. idk, all 3 tvz series were extremely close throughout and balance didnt seem very off. very high level tvz often descends into chaos late game as it did very often today, and nestea seems to be the only zerg that truly understands how to play those situations. leenock is very solid and has great baneling play, but his counter attacks are very questionable at times and ended up costing him today. DRG is the probably the best mutalisk player in the world, but he has shown, and showed again today, a tendency to stay on muta too long and to mishandle helions early game. and i dont think the map pool is that horrible for zergs, bel-shir, dual sight and crossfire are very strong zerg maps in zvt and metal/daybreak are even at best for the terran. one thing to keep in mind is that there are so many high level terrans in korea it leads to the terran metagame and builds developing at a faster rate because of how many heads are working towards a solution of the matchup. you saw that today in the reactor helion into fast 3rd oribital build that was used in nearly every game.
They only seemed close to you because you are used to OP marines. Once blizzard brings those the level they deserve to be we will finally see balance. Not to mention terrans have more in the arsenal then marines but they don't need to use them as much.
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Just now watching the games, 9000 minerals banked must be a GSL record o_O
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All those wood league players and their balance suggestions. Nobody cares and its not needed in LR threads. Personally I would just ban them they are hopeless anyway.
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I'm hoping GanZi gets past Supernova so he does his really crazy builds against Mvp in the semis, like he did against Taeja in Code A. He's probably the most exciting and hilarious TvT player when he knows how his opponent ticks.
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On October 05 2011 23:37 Devil Trigger wrote:Bomber shouldn't have gone to the Red Bull LAN I hope Ganzi beat Supernova because he can compete with MVP in TvT and is only hope of taking out MVP left.
Well with that logic, shouldn't taking out supernova be easy?
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On October 05 2011 23:45 shadymmj wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 23:44 TolEranceNA wrote:On October 05 2011 23:38 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:On October 05 2011 23:35 TolEranceNA wrote:
Mediocre terrans give the highest tier zerg a hard time, balanced MU? I don't see how anymore can state that. How can you say he is mediocre terran after those games? IMO, supernova played better than DRG regardless the race. Better strategy and starsense won him the game, which have nothing to do with race. When did i say Supernova is the mediocre terran? You sir need to stop putting words in my mouth, i was refering to Virus vs Nestea. As we all know, Nestea's vT was never amazing, but, as the best zerg player, having trouble beating a mediocre terran like Virus is truly amazing (hint hint not). It is about one race having more options than the other, not necessary balance, but poor design. As Dustin said, Terran is the only complete race. that's ridiculous. boxer had trouble against some mediocre tosses in his prime, but no one doubted he was the best. neither was toss underpowered. it's a learn to play sort of thing.
1. Protoss IS underpowered and still will be in SC1, Flash and Savior made them look like fools.
2. It is more like Jaedong having trouble vs random A-teamer/B-teamer. To be said, Virus is nothing more than Ensnare V.2.0.
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On October 05 2011 23:44 RedDragon571 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 23:42 shadymmj wrote:On October 05 2011 23:37 UserErrOr413 wrote:On October 05 2011 23:20 shadymmj wrote:
I seriously had no opinion whatsoever on this "dong" zerg guy (although his name is rather similar to the true king of zerg), but after tuning in for the half of game 2 and all of game 3, he comes off to me as a guy who just...suddenly gives up. And I mean fantasy-esque gg timings right there.
Watched supernova hold on for so long on 4 bases for most of the game, think he did a great job although he lost, but he turned it into a great game anyhow. And dong had pull to out the /dance, okay fair enough - we're good sports, but he proceeded to get promptly beaten in the 3rd set without even putting up a fight.
I don't blame people for playing badly and losing, but if you drone drilled and lost too much, then maybe you should just gg right there and everyone would understand. If you decide to play on, then play on. Not lose a couple units and then gg...only fantasy is allowed to do that.
Supernova played with a sizeable disadvantage in income and still gave it all he got. Dong dude just flat out quit. Not looking forward to him again. Maybe it's the overhype. At least idra is a colourful personality outside the game. Wut? I though fantasy GG timing was continuing to drag out a game even though it was clear you had lost ages ago. Which isn't really the same thing as giving up. Am I missing something? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195375 kinda, in the sense that you play on...without actually playing. then you suddenly realise you should gg. that's what i meant, and that's exactly what happened for a bit. he was straight up fucking dead. What are you complaining about? Best Gold leaguer analysis of the day, jesus christ.
i would post my league here, but that really isn't the point. okay, he was down a gold base and some workers. just as shitty a situation as supernova was in, in game 2. notice the difference. like i said, if u just gg after losing an important fight then no one would say a thing, but if you play on and just leave abruptly 1 minute later it is nothing short of a letdown.
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Shame: 2 zergs who could've advanced today, and none actually did :S
And the one who did even had a hard time doing it aswell...
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On October 05 2011 23:45 PapaJed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 23:43 epoc wrote:On October 05 2011 23:26 Let it Raine wrote:
people win and people lose
this day didnt show that anything is op
if anything it shows how good terrans can be if they sit back and do nothing aggressive besides drops till max.
which is something EVERY race needs to understand... the easiest and most guaranteed way of beating zerg is to actually do as little as possible till max food. Yeah just wait till max supply as zerg and proceed to instalose vs any terran unit comp. You give good advice and you don´t read very well.
Wow actually youre correct :O
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EPT
