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On October 05 2011 23:34 IM_Megan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 23:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 05 2011 23:27 IM_Megan wrote:On October 05 2011 23:25 Sareth wrote:
MVP 3-1 Nestea
SuperNova 2-2 Ganzi <- Will be Match of the Day, i dont dare to choose a winner ^.^
Clide 3-1 MMA
Happy 3-0 Coca Sir, you are not correct on alot of these matches.  NesTea 3-1  MVP v > care? CoCa 3-2 Happy You realize you just picked Terrans to lose, right? And your name is IM and you're voting against Happy?  I just feel more for the zerg players out there, because I know how hard it is to take down siege tanks marines with all the micro you needed to do And all they do is split there marines up! hehe go zerg <3
I'm hoping CoCa wins so I can have a Mvp v CoCa finals possibly.
But Nestea just can't beat Mvp it's not happening.
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On October 05 2011 23:31 IM_Megan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 23:29 Eternalmisfit wrote:On October 05 2011 23:23 RedDragon571 wrote:On October 05 2011 23:17 Herry wrote:On October 05 2011 23:14 RedDragon571 wrote:On October 05 2011 23:11 aebriol wrote:On October 05 2011 23:06 iamthedave wrote:On October 05 2011 23:04 aebriol wrote:On October 05 2011 23:03 FallDownMarigold wrote:
Supernova best Terran in the world? Well ... rather, korean terrans showing their dominance? Coca and NesTea, and one of them went through a Protoss ... and NesTea had problems, but managed, 2-1 vs a mediocre Terran. Since when was Supernova a top Terran? DRG isn't as good as people say he is. Simple as that. Where did I wrote that Supernova is a top Terran? He isn't. The point is that for mediocre code S players (ie - better than all foreigners), Terrans can beat the good but not great players pretty much consistently. DRG isn't as good as some people want to say ... he is only the 2nd best ZvT in the world, and likely the second best Zerg in the world though. Some people have hyped him beyond that, which I don't think is fair. I think that is because zerg has a big eco advantage but marines with medvecs can kill 10x there cost before they get killed of. Maybe lacking in the descision-making and strategy department against code s terrans, which he is inexperienced. You gotta admit DRG has without a doubt the best zerg mechanics, multitasking and unit control in the world. You never see an idle unit for DRG, he is always mobile, playing to zerg strengths. :D exactly, and even with great mechanics like that and being one of the best zergs in SC2, he can still be easily beaten by an army controlled by mid-tier terrans. Doesnt matter what Units he makes. Once Terrans get to a certain point its just almost impossible to kill them. Watch DRG vs Bomber at MLG on Shakuras and you'll see exactly what i mean. that may say more about game design than anything. Code S terrans are favored against the other races and the maps are particularly good for terran this season. I think even the best zergs in the world are fighting an uphill battle against code S terrans. Leenok lost, Nestea went 2-1 to virus, BARELY winning the last game. DRG played great but really I didn't have the tools to deal with code s terran play. terrans a bit op atm and until a patch or HOTS comes out, baring walking helions . Maybe things will shape up better, balance and game design wise. The maps used today were Daybreak, Dual Sight, Crossfire, and Metal. Daybreak and Crossfire are mostly zerg favored. All metal games had cross spawns which is neutral/slightly zerg favored. Dual sight is 53-47 which is close to balanced. This season ZvT is 10-11 which is close to 50% Today ZvT was 4-5 which is also close to 50% There were no 2rax (except 1 completely botched attempts), no bunker play, only 2 games had mass BFH (one was lost by T), only 1 game had ghost snipes (which was lost by T). Pretty, none of this considered 'OP' came into play today. Despite all this, people still go about QQing about balance in TvZ matchup. Terran is just insane good at defending and harashing. The marines are really strong and can take down alot of lings mutas.
its not balance, its bad game design. It's poor design to give to give one side more options, possible strategy and pieces compared to the other side. the player with less pieces and less options is inherently at a disadvantage by being given more possible options they have to account for. There is a reason 20 terrans are in code s and it doesn't necessarily have to do with balance.
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On October 05 2011 23:34 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 23:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 05 2011 23:31 Zane wrote:On October 05 2011 23:29 Noocta wrote:On October 05 2011 23:16 snafoo wrote:
MVP vs Happy finals, calling it now. Yeah, another boring TvT final where we all know mvp will take it.  We all know Mvp will take it regardless of what the match-up will be. I think so too, and I'm getting a little tired of watching TvTs MVP makes the game look unfair, what can you say. =/ For anyone picking Nestea over MVP, thats just silly. MVP has owned Nestea so hard historically, Nestea said he got depressed practicing against MVP.
That was just 1 map, that he would eliminate.
Besides he destroyed MMA in groups, when in last season the opposite happened.
His ZvT improved soooooooo much.
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On October 05 2011 23:29 Eternalmisfit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 23:23 RedDragon571 wrote:On October 05 2011 23:17 Herry wrote:On October 05 2011 23:14 RedDragon571 wrote:On October 05 2011 23:11 aebriol wrote:On October 05 2011 23:06 iamthedave wrote:On October 05 2011 23:04 aebriol wrote:On October 05 2011 23:03 FallDownMarigold wrote:
Supernova best Terran in the world? Well ... rather, korean terrans showing their dominance? Coca and NesTea, and one of them went through a Protoss ... and NesTea had problems, but managed, 2-1 vs a mediocre Terran. Since when was Supernova a top Terran? DRG isn't as good as people say he is. Simple as that. Where did I wrote that Supernova is a top Terran? He isn't. The point is that for mediocre code S players (ie - better than all foreigners), Terrans can beat the good but not great players pretty much consistently. DRG isn't as good as some people want to say ... he is only the 2nd best ZvT in the world, and likely the second best Zerg in the world though. Some people have hyped him beyond that, which I don't think is fair. I think that is because zerg has a big eco advantage but marines with medvecs can kill 10x there cost before they get killed of. Maybe lacking in the descision-making and strategy department against code s terrans, which he is inexperienced. You gotta admit DRG has without a doubt the best zerg mechanics, multitasking and unit control in the world. You never see an idle unit for DRG, he is always mobile, playing to zerg strengths. :D exactly, and even with great mechanics like that and being one of the best zergs in SC2, he can still be easily beaten by an army controlled by mid-tier terrans. Doesnt matter what Units he makes. Once Terrans get to a certain point its just almost impossible to kill them. Watch DRG vs Bomber at MLG on Shakuras and you'll see exactly what i mean. that may say more about game design than anything. Code S terrans are favored against the other races and the maps are particularly good for terran this season. I think even the best zergs in the world are fighting an uphill battle against code S terrans. Leenok lost, Nestea went 2-1 to virus, BARELY winning the last game. DRG played great but really I didn't have the tools to deal with code s terran play. terrans a bit op atm and until a patch or HOTS comes out, baring walking helions . Maybe things will shape up better, balance and game design wise. The maps used today were Daybreak, Dual Sight, Crossfire, and Metal. Daybreak and Crossfire are mostly zerg favored. All metal games had cross spawns which is neutral/slightly zerg favored. Dual sight is 53-47 which is close to balanced. This season ZvT is 10-11 which is close to 50% Today ZvT was 4-5 which is also close to 50% There were no 2rax (except 1 completely botched attempts), no bunker play, only 2 games had mass BFH (one was lost by T), only 1 game had ghost snipes (which was lost by T). Pretty, none of this considered 'OP' came into play today. Despite all this, people still go about QQing about balance in TvZ matchup.
We are talking about Late game mechanics. not about Mid-game or Early game which is where 80% of GSL games are played out and subsequently where most of the statistics come from. seriously, watch DRG vs Bomber on Shakuras. Given every unit and every upgrade no way DRG could beat him.
Zerg so badly needs swarm again. so so badly. ultras just get owned so quickly. I miss BW
User was warned for this post
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On October 05 2011 23:35 Sareth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 23:27 IM_Megan wrote:On October 05 2011 23:25 Sareth wrote:
MVP 3-1 Nestea
SuperNova 2-2 Ganzi <- Will be Match of the Day, i dont dare to choose a winner ^.^
Clide 3-1 MMA
Happy 3-0 Coca Sir, you are not correct on alot of these matches. NesTea 3-1 MVP v > care? CoCa 3-2 Happy Happy losing to Coca? noway. I am a Zergplayer myself, but the both zergs that played best went out today. So I have to give my Votes to MVP and Happy. Nestea really did not play very well today, coca is better, but happy is just impressive lately.
Maybe you are all correct in the statics, but I am just praying for nestea and coca!
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On October 05 2011 23:36 rareh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 23:34 ch33psh33p wrote:On October 05 2011 23:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 05 2011 23:31 Zane wrote:On October 05 2011 23:29 Noocta wrote:On October 05 2011 23:16 snafoo wrote:
MVP vs Happy finals, calling it now. Yeah, another boring TvT final where we all know mvp will take it. We all know Mvp will take it regardless of what the match-up will be. I think so too, and I'm getting a little tired of watching TvTs MVP makes the game look unfair, what can you say. =/ For anyone picking Nestea over MVP, thats just silly. MVP has owned Nestea so hard historically, Nestea said he got depressed practicing against MVP. That was just 1 map, that he would eliminate. Besides he destroyed MMA in groups, when in last season the opposite happened. His ZvT improved soooooooo much.
8-1 lifetime, on all maps.
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Bomber shouldn't have gone to the Red Bull LAN
I hope Ganzi beat Supernova because he can compete with MVP in TvT and is only hope of taking out MVP left.
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On October 05 2011 23:20 shadymmj wrote:
I seriously had no opinion whatsoever on this "dong" zerg guy (although his name is rather similar to the true king of zerg), but after tuning in for the half of game 2 and all of game 3, he comes off to me as a guy who just...suddenly gives up. And I mean fantasy-esque gg timings right there.
Watched supernova hold on for so long on 4 bases for most of the game, think he did a great job although he lost, but he turned it into a great game anyhow. And dong had pull to out the /dance, okay fair enough - we're good sports, but he proceeded to get promptly beaten in the 3rd set without even putting up a fight.
I don't blame people for playing badly and losing, but if you drone drilled and lost too much, then maybe you should just gg right there and everyone would understand. If you decide to play on, then play on. Not lose a couple units and then gg...only fantasy is allowed to do that.
Supernova played with a sizeable disadvantage in income and still gave it all he got. Dong dude just flat out quit. Not looking forward to him again. Maybe it's the overhype. At least idra is a colourful personality outside the game.
lolWut? I though fantasy GG timing was continuing to drag out a game even though it was clear you had lost ages ago. Which isn't really the same thing as giving up. Am I missing something?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195375
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Russian Federation949 Posts
On October 05 2011 23:34 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 23:22 nofacej wrote:On October 05 2011 23:16 ladyumbra wrote:On October 05 2011 23:10 nofacej wrote:
I'm actually sick of hearing Tastosis talk about Nestea. I'm usually a big fan of Tastosis, and enjoy their hyping, but it's just getting ridiculous. To the point where I actually want Mvp to humiliate Nestea and stretch his record vs him to 11-1. Seriously? It's fine to be frustrated with the bias you feel casters may have and how much they express it but wishing for a player to lose to punish the casters is your response? It's not to punish the casters or the player, it's just that Tastosis' hyping of Nestea has actually lowered my enjoyment of the show. Hell, Tasteless even introduced Virus as "The Victim" in the game Virus took off Nestea. If the only thing that will cause them to stop overhyping Nestea is for him to be eliminated then I want that to happen. It's a shame because I really like watching Nestea play, and I used to root for him back when Terrans and Protosses were crushing every other Zerg. Those hypes from Artosis are overkill for me too. And I also don't understand why isn't he give equal amount of hypes to MVP. MVP is even more solid than Nestea.
Calling someone The Final Boss is a pretty big hype
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Come back to see DRG has lost, poor nerd
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On October 05 2011 23:35 TolEranceNA wrote:
Mediocre terrans give the highest tier zerg a hard time, balanced MU? I don't see how anymore can state that.
How can you say he is mediocre terran after those games? IMO, supernova played better than DRG regardless the race. Better strategy and starsense won him the game, which have nothing to do with race.
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Russian Federation949 Posts
On October 05 2011 23:37 UserErrOr413 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 23:20 shadymmj wrote:
I seriously had no opinion whatsoever on this "dong" zerg guy (although his name is rather similar to the true king of zerg), but after tuning in for the half of game 2 and all of game 3, he comes off to me as a guy who just...suddenly gives up. And I mean fantasy-esque gg timings right there.
Watched supernova hold on for so long on 4 bases for most of the game, think he did a great job although he lost, but he turned it into a great game anyhow. And dong had pull to out the /dance, okay fair enough - we're good sports, but he proceeded to get promptly beaten in the 3rd set without even putting up a fight.
I don't blame people for playing badly and losing, but if you drone drilled and lost too much, then maybe you should just gg right there and everyone would understand. If you decide to play on, then play on. Not lose a couple units and then gg...only fantasy is allowed to do that.
Supernova played with a sizeable disadvantage in income and still gave it all he got. Dong dude just flat out quit. Not looking forward to him again. Maybe it's the overhype. At least idra is a colourful personality outside the game. Wut? I though fantasy GG timing was continuing to drag out a game even though it was clear you had lost ages ago. Which isn't really the same thing as giving up. Am I missing something? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195375
u right, the other guy is just noobing it up
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On October 05 2011 23:36 rareh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 23:34 ch33psh33p wrote:On October 05 2011 23:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 05 2011 23:31 Zane wrote:On October 05 2011 23:29 Noocta wrote:On October 05 2011 23:16 snafoo wrote:
MVP vs Happy finals, calling it now. Yeah, another boring TvT final where we all know mvp will take it. We all know Mvp will take it regardless of what the match-up will be. I think so too, and I'm getting a little tired of watching TvTs MVP makes the game look unfair, what can you say. =/ For anyone picking Nestea over MVP, thats just silly. MVP has owned Nestea so hard historically, Nestea said he got depressed practicing against MVP. That was just 1 map, that he would eliminate. Besides he destroyed MMA in groups, when in last season the opposite happened. His ZvT improved soooooooo much.
MMA was not destroyed. In fact he had it won but he made a mistake that Nestea capitalized on to win the game.
Also 1 game means nothing compared to a 5 game series.
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On October 05 2011 23:37 UserErrOr413 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 23:20 shadymmj wrote:
I seriously had no opinion whatsoever on this "dong" zerg guy (although his name is rather similar to the true king of zerg), but after tuning in for the half of game 2 and all of game 3, he comes off to me as a guy who just...suddenly gives up. And I mean fantasy-esque gg timings right there.
Watched supernova hold on for so long on 4 bases for most of the game, think he did a great job although he lost, but he turned it into a great game anyhow. And dong had pull to out the /dance, okay fair enough - we're good sports, but he proceeded to get promptly beaten in the 3rd set without even putting up a fight.
I don't blame people for playing badly and losing, but if you drone drilled and lost too much, then maybe you should just gg right there and everyone would understand. If you decide to play on, then play on. Not lose a couple units and then gg...only fantasy is allowed to do that.
Supernova played with a sizeable disadvantage in income and still gave it all he got. Dong dude just flat out quit. Not looking forward to him again. Maybe it's the overhype. At least idra is a colourful personality outside the game. Wut? I though fantasy GG timing was continuing to drag out a game even though it was clear you had lost ages ago. Which isn't really the same thing as giving up. Am I missing something? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195375
Yeah. IdrA and Fantasy gg timings are complete opposites lol
But DRG doesn't leave pre-emptively at all.
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clide needs to be in the finals.
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Aaanndd... VODs are up !
Time to see what I missed guys, thanks for the amazing LR today  .
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its short-sighted to call supernova's play "turtly" just because of that series. DRG plays mutalisks to such an extreme that you absolutely have to sit back and defend behind bunkers and turrets to stand a chance. the weakness of mutas dont come into play until a terran is at or near maxed, overmakes turrets, and has upgraded marines.
supernovas play featured:
1) him taking an early economic gambit that soft counters DRG's preference for fast-tracking to mutas.
2) heavy focus on early and constant bio upgrades
3) hard-core sim city with bunkers and turrets that slows down muta harass and prevents DRG's beloved ling attacks that he uses when mutas draw marines away
4) fairly early thor production at the expense of some tanks that weakens the threat of constant muta poking towards tanks.
objectively, supernovas overall gameplan for the match was actually VERY smart and his execution was top-notch. the gold base build was somewhat risky but very smart as well as taking a 3rd traditionally against DRG's style would have been a nightmare on that map.
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On October 05 2011 23:39 Ahelvin wrote:Aaanndd... VODs are up ! Time to see what I missed guys, thanks for the amazing LR today .
You are welcome hope you enjoyed it.
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GomTV is insanely fast with the VODs now. Great job GOM! (other events should really do this also, why is it that it takes weeks sometimes for vods to get published?)
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On October 05 2011 23:37 UserErrOr413 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 23:20 shadymmj wrote:
I seriously had no opinion whatsoever on this "dong" zerg guy (although his name is rather similar to the true king of zerg), but after tuning in for the half of game 2 and all of game 3, he comes off to me as a guy who just...suddenly gives up. And I mean fantasy-esque gg timings right there.
Watched supernova hold on for so long on 4 bases for most of the game, think he did a great job although he lost, but he turned it into a great game anyhow. And dong had pull to out the /dance, okay fair enough - we're good sports, but he proceeded to get promptly beaten in the 3rd set without even putting up a fight.
I don't blame people for playing badly and losing, but if you drone drilled and lost too much, then maybe you should just gg right there and everyone would understand. If you decide to play on, then play on. Not lose a couple units and then gg...only fantasy is allowed to do that.
Supernova played with a sizeable disadvantage in income and still gave it all he got. Dong dude just flat out quit. Not looking forward to him again. Maybe it's the overhype. At least idra is a colourful personality outside the game. Wut? I though fantasy GG timing was continuing to drag out a game even though it was clear you had lost ages ago. Which isn't really the same thing as giving up. Am I missing something? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195375
kinda, in the sense that you play on...without actually playing. then you suddenly realise you should gg. that's what i meant, and that's exactly what happened for a bit.
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EPT
