On October 02 2011 18:21 jjhchsc2 wrote: wow congratz MKP!!!! CHYEA cant believe he beat drg in dual sight, taldarim and belshir.
How were the games?
The games were excellent. Now if mkp only fixes his tvt, which is mainly caused by his refusal to go mech, he'd be back to being a boss in no time! His tvz and tvp and still good, but his tvt is still awful right now. I don't know how many times he needs to lose bio vs mech before he realizes it doesn't work and goes mech himself. Hopefully one day he will learn.
He destroyed MMA to get to the finals - MKP's tvt is just fine.
Yes, he destroyed MMA in this tourney. However, that was just one series. Plus as mkp's number 1 fanboy, I can tell you his tvt is not fine and is one of the main reasons for his slump. He's been losing tvt left and right for a while now and mostly because he keeps going bio against mech and losing like he did against clide. His refusal to go mech tvt is why he loses a lot of tvt. You just don't win going bio vs mech when the meching player plays mech well.
Losing to ryung/bomber dropped him to 3rd in his code s group too. The first time he dropped to code a and made up/down, he went 1-3 in group and lost to 3Ts, ryung, happy and dream. This past up/down when he made it, he only had 1 terran in his group taeja and he lost to him.
I agree with you on most of the things you said except that I am MKP's Nr.1 Fanboy.
I agree with everything he said and everything you said too, except that I am his n1 fanboy xD
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
I agree completely. I feel like I'm in bizarro world where this boring gimmicky abusive 1 baser has a huge fan base. I feel confident in saying if mkp played the way he plays now(now being since the earl seasons where he got popular with marine splits) people would hate him.
Watch this,
Your world wont be as bizzare.
I have seen as 90+% of his games in tournaments, I don't see to see more of his play to know what he does very detailed. I hate it. I hate everything about his play.
This guy gets it.
People can get so defensive when they see 'BW' mentioned in a SC2 thread!
Like Damon Hill said, after you've been driving Formula1 cars for a living, everything else is kind of sluggish.
Raises an interesting point though, if MKP came into CodeS this season, would anyone bat an eyelid? Just another Terran.
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
This format is the same as MLG. People didn't get time to prepare for their opponents, therefore they didn't play as well as they would usually. They still played standard.
That's not quite it either. I've seen better in the gstl (no prep either), especially from Drg (he's king there). It obviously isn't live, but was it even confirmed as to what the time span for this tournament was, or are you assuming they didn't have much prep? As for standard...
Nestea playing aggressive instead of defensive as usual and quite sloppily? Losira doing half-assed baneling busts against MKP instead of getting further ahead when he had the clear upper-hand then dying to simple bunker pressure in the next game? DRG rolls MVP rather easily, but can't seem to stand up to a few hellions to the point that he gets 3-1'd? I don't think so.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
No one said marines were OP before he made them OP. Most people were complaining about marauders.
He changed the TvZ matchup completely.
He popularized the 2 rax build.
He got 2nd place 4 times in GSL.
A lot of people said marines were good before him, they have insane dps and efficency, and how did he change TvZ ? Dont terran do marine/tank/medivacs anymore ?
Before MKP vs Kyrix, NO ONE knew that splitting marines against Banelings was effective.
No, MVP was the first to split marines, but MKP just made it really famous through that series and being only marine heavy.
No,oGs.TheSTC was the first to split marines AND simultaneous drops->then the rest copied.
On October 02 2011 18:21 jjhchsc2 wrote: wow congratz MKP!!!! CHYEA cant believe he beat drg in dual sight, taldarim and belshir.
How were the games?
The games were excellent. Now if mkp only fixes his tvt, which is mainly caused by his refusal to go mech, he'd be back to being a boss in no time! His tvz and tvp and still good, but his tvt is still awful right now. I don't know how many times he needs to lose bio vs mech before he realizes it doesn't work and goes mech himself. Hopefully one day he will learn.
He destroyed MMA to get to the finals - MKP's tvt is just fine.
Yes, he destroyed MMA in this tourney. However, that was just one series. Plus as mkp's number 1 fanboy, I can tell you his tvt is not fine and is one of the main reasons for his slump. He's been losing tvt left and right for a while now and mostly because he keeps going bio against mech and losing like he did against clide. His refusal to go mech tvt is why he loses a lot of tvt. You just don't win going bio vs mech when the meching player plays mech well.
Losing to ryung/bomber dropped him to 3rd in his code s group too. The first time he dropped to code a and made up/down, he went 1-3 in group and lost to 3Ts, ryung, happy and dream. This past up/down when he made it, he only had 1 terran in his group taeja and he lost to him.
I agree with you on most of the things you said except that I am MKP's Nr.1 Fanboy.
I agree with everything he said and everything you said too, except that I am his n1 fanboy xD
i agree wtih everything he said, everything he said and everything you said too, except that i am his ninfinity fanboy..........oh wait..
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
This format is the same as MLG. People didn't get time to prepare for their opponents, therefore they didn't play as well as they would usually. They still played standard.
That's not quite it either. I've seen better in the gstl (no prep either), especially from Drg (he's king there). It obviously isn't live, but was it even confirmed as to what the time span for this tournament was, or are you assuming they didn't have much prep? As for standard...
Nestea playing aggressive instead of defensive as usual and quite sloppily? Losira doing half-assed baneling busts against MKP instead of getting further ahead when he had the clear upper-hand then dying to simple bunker pressure in the next game? DRG rolls MVP rather easily, but can't seem to stand up to a few hellions to the point that he gets 3-1'd? I don't think so.
Nestea plays aggressive in Code S games as well? Not all of them, but he does. Losira is awful at ZvT, he always wastes like 200 lings on nothing so it's not that surprising.
Honestly, they might nothave played their best but they didn't go into a tournament with prize money to show their fans that they are awful, unmotivated players.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
I agree completely. I feel like I'm in bizarro world where this boring gimmicky abusive 1 baser has a huge fan base. I feel confident in saying if mkp played the way he plays now(now being since the earl seasons where he got popular with marine splits) people would hate him.
you should not even reply to some of these people.
a dude claiming that MKP is a "gimmicky abusive 1 baser" when he basically popularized the 1 rax expand and was ALREADY expanding in season2/3 where all the other terrans were 1 basing...
this guy obviously does not watch the GSL or he's seriously uninformed
I have seen almost the entirely of GSL. I have missed a few games here and there but 99% of GSL I have seen. I call him a gimmicky abusive 1 baser not because everything he does is a gimmicky abusive 1 base play but because he does many gimmicky strategies, many abusive strategies, and many 1 base strategies. He can play a straight up game just fine, that just makes it more annoying when he does such a high rate of really lame builds.
He is famous for mass marine vs banes. This is the definition of a gimmicky play. He is famous for base trades. For MMM vs zerg and vs terran(both gimmicky). He does stuff like double reactored hellions, or 2port banshee a lot. He was very well known for 2 rax with scv pull. He does the 1/1/1 quite a lot. I can go on all day with this.
ummm i dont get what you mean by gimmicky.... srsly. are you trolling? o.O
Gimmicky is hard to define. Basically, something that relys of your opponent to make a mistake but isn't always cheese. Like 2 port banshee would be gimmicky because if it is scouted it losses. Building a army of all marines vs banes would be gimmicky. Basically stuff that isn't reliable over many games. You could win a game with a endless rally of marines, but no meta game will ever develop with that being standard because it doesn't work if they see it coming. You get me?
On October 02 2011 18:21 Eishi_Ki wrote: Heh, yeah, I did watch GSL Season 2, thanks to the members of Club 2010 for reminding me about that. Yes, I did watch MKP vs Kyrix (live) and yes, I enjoyed the game, did it startle me though? No, no it didn't (maybe experience of BW talking).
Was that series entertaining? I guess some people did. I did not. DRG made mistakes certainly but I'd prefer to watch a match where gimmick, abusive strategies were not utilised.
Well done MKP. Commentators were not interested, nor am I.
Time for bed.
"I watched the game, but I dont understand why it changed the entire TvZ matchup because I played BW, a better game!"
Sick argument there bro, good job mixing up opinions from facts.
I'm confused, where is my mix up of opinions and facts?
I implied BW was more difficult to micro in and my experience made me awe at some of the things the pros did. I did not imply BW is a better game, I believe you did that.
And my point wasn't an opinion, it's a fact. Can Marines be stutter stepped in BW? No. Do Mutas auto stack in BW? No. Do Zerglings surround targets automatically? No. Do Dragoons walk in a straight line where you tell them? No.
If you still dont believe me, I implore you to fire up BW and try cloning Scourge appropriately.
What I was implying was valid to my point, yours was not.
If you require further examples or video evidence of my claims, drop me a PM
Apologies for pseudo derailing the thread, that will be the last of it.
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
This format is the same as MLG. People didn't get time to prepare for their opponents, therefore they didn't play as well as they would usually. They still played standard.
That's not quite it either. I've seen better in the gstl (no prep either), especially from Drg (he's king there). It obviously isn't live, but was it even confirmed as to what the time span for this tournament was, or are you assuming they didn't have much prep? As for standard...
Nestea playing aggressive instead of defensive as usual and quite sloppily? Losira doing half-assed baneling busts against MKP instead of getting further ahead when he had the clear upper-hand then dying to simple bunker pressure in the next game? DRG rolls MVP rather easily, but can't seem to stand up to a few hellions to the point that he gets 3-1'd? I don't think so.
Nestea plays aggressive in Code S games as well? Not all of them, but he does. Losira is awful at ZvT, he always wastes like 200 lings on nothing so it's not that surprising.
Honestly, they might nothave played their best but they didn't go into a tournament with prize money to show their fans that they are awful, unmotivated players.
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
HAHAHAHA saying that MLG is on the level of GSL code S is a bit ridiculous. MLG is not even close to the level of GSL level play. A lot of the MLG pool wouldn't even qualify for Code A.
Learn to read, I'm talking about how the Koreans play while at MLG. MVP, Bomber, DRG, MMA, Losira. They play up to their level, of course it's usually only seen when they go up against each other as the foreigners can't push them to their limits. In some cases the games are better from them. Coca was thought to suck terribly at Zvt back then...owned puma and played good against bomber until the later stages of their games. Boxer did very nicely at Anaheim. Nada looked awesome as well, especially the win against Puma. Rain actually looked good for once at Anaheim.
On October 02 2011 18:56 KimJongChill wrote: Wow, I did not expect these results at all. This is like the universe is folding in on itself. MKP to win GSL code S ???
Yellow was the King of Special Events... He almost always won them when he was at his peak... But the regular leagues, that's a different story as we all know.
Maybe MKP really is the Kong of SC2. Yellow's true heir.
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
This format is the same as MLG. People didn't get time to prepare for their opponents, therefore they didn't play as well as they would usually. They still played standard.
That's not quite it either. I've seen better in the gstl (no prep either), especially from Drg (he's king there). It obviously isn't live, but was it even confirmed as to what the time span for this tournament was, or are you assuming they didn't have much prep? As for standard...
Nestea playing aggressive instead of defensive as usual and quite sloppily? Losira doing half-assed baneling busts against MKP instead of getting further ahead when he had the clear upper-hand then dying to simple bunker pressure in the next game? DRG rolls MVP rather easily, but can't seem to stand up to a few hellions to the point that he gets 3-1'd? I don't think so.
Nestea plays aggressive in Code S games as well? Not all of them, but he does. Losira is awful at ZvT, he always wastes like 200 lings on nothing so it's not that surprising.
Honestly, they might nothave played their best but they didn't go into a tournament with prize money to show their fans that they are awful, unmotivated players.
They can, they have GSL to prepare for
MMA's next match is TvT so he has been practicing TvT. DRG's next match is ZvT, so he has been practicing ZvT.
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
HAHAHAHA saying that MLG is on the level of GSL code S is a bit ridiculous. MLG is not even close to the level of GSL level play. A lot of the MLG pool wouldn't even qualify for Code A.
Learn to read, I'm talking about how the Koreans play while at MLG. MVP, Bomber, DRG, MMA, Losira. They play up to their level, of course it's usually only seen when they go up against each other as the foreigners can't push them to their limits. In some cases the games are better from them. Coca was thought to suck terribly at Zvt back then...owned puma and played good against bomber until the later stages of their games. Boxer did very nicely at Anaheim. Nada looked awesome as well, especially the win against Puma. Rain actually looked good for once at Anaheim.
The Koreans are forced to play better consistently in GSL than they do at MLG to win. They also have to refine their play MUCH MUCH more in GSL (which means a higher level of play if you don't follow that logic). No, CoCa was considered amazing at TvZ ever since he switched to SlayerS. It wasn't because of the big crowd lmfao. You should think before you post things like that.
I felt his play was very strong and good expect for the first game (missed it) and the last game (what was DRG doing?)
The two fact reactor build was really smart and abused the assumptions of DRG. His macro mode in game two looked air tight and he radiated cleverness throughout the series.
I never understood why putting on some pressure while taking a new base like in the last game gets frowned upon. I do this all the time and in broodwar I did it even more. Yes I agree that the investment is heavier in some of these sc2 builds but with many builds you are pretty much guaranteed a decent roi. For example 2 rax bunker pressure tvz on some maps (not sure about the big ones esp now with patch) has huge potential for good roi and if you do it right you when you "fail" you have a well developed base at home anyways.
It not like he's cutting scv and bringing 10 of them with him every game
EPT
