The AOL is an online tournament with a line-up of star players which will be commentated in English and broadcasted live via GOMTV.net. Available only with a premium ticket. The AOL will last from September 17th to October 2nd, every Saturday and Sunday at 08:00 GMT (+00:00). This tournament is only available with a premium ticket. $4.99 w/ ads $9.99 w/o Donot ask for restreams.
I think MKP kind of likes hes new King of Kong status. A win would be best, but second place probably doesn't sting him as much as it would another player.
On October 02 2011 08:11 -Strider- wrote: Really GOM? The finals won't be casted by Tastosis? This tournament has been dissapointing, worst $5 spent ever.
Yes, we're all dying to know what Tasteless' favorite animal is and how many muppet names Artosis can use in one sentence. >_>
On October 02 2011 08:11 -Strider- wrote: Really GOM? The finals won't be casted by Tastosis? This tournament has been dissapointing, worst $5 spent ever.
I put in op that the casters are wolfoatarp combo, but I don't know for sure. But I doubt it'll be Tastosis.
On October 02 2011 08:11 -Strider- wrote: Really GOM? The finals won't be casted by Tastosis? This tournament has been dissapointing, worst $5 spent ever.
Yes, we're all dying to know what Tasteless' favorite animal is and how many muppet names Artosis can use in one sentence. >_>
I actually am. They have the perfect blend of comedy and analysis. Even at their low points with the muppets they're the best casters as a duo (Day9 is best single caster).
I tried giving the other three casters a fair shot, but I just can't stand them anymore. Doa's casting was ok at first, then he grew to become very lackadaisical. Moletrap tends to talk over who he's casting with very often, and his jokes are about three tiers below tastosis on a bad day(will never forgive the parody of the "BOOM BOOM BOOM" intro he did....EVER). Wolf is probably the best of the three, but still doesn't quite exude the charisma, he just kinda sounds annoying when he gets excited, his analysis is also just flat out wrong at times. Give us Khaldor already :/
The tournament has also been disappointing because the games have been below standard code S quality that you'd expect from the players participating in it.
Hope this will be a good finals. Either MKP will prepare well and perform what he practiced well and it will be a good series, or he will just completely fail.
Looking at the DRG vs Thorzain finals in Valencia, DRG looked surprisingly susceptible to timings. If MKP catches him off guard with some funky and well timed attacks, he can probably take it. If not, he'll get absolutely murdered.
On October 02 2011 08:35 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Moletrap tends to talk over who he's casting with very often, and his jokes are about three tiers below tastosis on a bad day(will never forgive the parody of the "BOOM BOOM BOOM" intro he did....EVER).
Wait, is there a video of this? I'd like to see this firsthand myself xD
MKP finally has a chance to be the 1st. DRG will try as hard but in a generic manner. He's not likely to reveal anything special when his code S run is looking good. (No strong Protoss remaining)
On October 02 2011 10:22 NewteN wrote: What is Tastosis doing?!
Resting. You can't use up their energy. They can't cast every single God damned game. They need to play. They need to talk. They need to research. They need to do all that prep work that makes them great. That's why.
Otherwise, they sound, truthfully, like they've lost their passion.
Anyway, I'm a fan of both players, and I find it hard to believe DRG will get cheesed by MKP, being one of the best defensive players on earth. Thus, MKP will have to macro. We'll see if he's improved.
On October 02 2011 10:30 usethis2 wrote: MKP finally has a chance to be the 1st. DRG will try as hard but in a generic manner. He's not likely to reveal anything special when his code S run is looking good. (No strong Protoss remaining)
DRG doesn't use a lot of different builds anyway. He plays standard Muta/Ling/Bane, but just does it at a very high level... He doesn't need to hide anything.
On October 02 2011 08:11 -Strider- wrote: Really GOM? The finals won't be casted by Tastosis? This tournament has been dissapointing, worst $5 spent ever.
Yes, we're all dying to know what Tasteless' favorite animal is and how many muppet names Artosis can use in one sentence. >_>
I actually am. They have the perfect blend of comedy and analysis. Even at their low points with the muppets they're the best casters as a duo (Day9 is best single caster).
I tried giving the other three casters a fair shot, but I just can't stand them anymore. Doa's casting was ok at first, then he grew to become very lackadaisical. Moletrap tends to talk over who he's casting with very often, and his jokes are about three tiers below tastosis on a bad day(will never forgive the parody of the "BOOM BOOM BOOM" intro he did....EVER). Wolf is probably the best of the three, but still doesn't quite exude the charisma, he just kinda sounds annoying when he gets excited, his analysis is also just flat out wrong at times. Give us Khaldor already :/
The tournament has also been disappointing because the games have been below standard code S quality that you'd expect from the players participating in it.
I guess your perfect blend of comedy and analysis is something like 80/20, because that's what tasteless+artosis (I hate the word tastosis for some reason) is right now.
I'd like to think that things like caster preference is subjective and such, and that all opinions are just as good and sensible as any, but people like you make it hard for me to stay collected you know? Tasteless and Artosis are NOT half as good as some claim, and other casters (Doa/Moletrap/Wolf) are NOT half as bad as these same sheeps would have you believe. They are all okay to listen to, and not one of them is bad enough to ruin the experience itself. Unless, of course, the game itself does not interest you.
On October 02 2011 08:11 -Strider- wrote: Really GOM? The finals won't be casted by Tastosis? This tournament has been dissapointing, worst $5 spent ever.
Yes, we're all dying to know what Tasteless' favorite animal is and how many muppet names Artosis can use in one sentence. >_>
I actually am. They have the perfect blend of comedy and analysis. Even at their low points with the muppets they're the best casters as a duo (Day9 is best single caster).
I tried giving the other three casters a fair shot, but I just can't stand them anymore. Doa's casting was ok at first, then he grew to become very lackadaisical. Moletrap tends to talk over who he's casting with very often, and his jokes are about three tiers below tastosis on a bad day(will never forgive the parody of the "BOOM BOOM BOOM" intro he did....EVER). Wolf is probably the best of the three, but still doesn't quite exude the charisma, he just kinda sounds annoying when he gets excited, his analysis is also just flat out wrong at times. Give us Khaldor already :/
The tournament has also been disappointing because the games have been below standard code S quality that you'd expect from the players participating in it.
I guess your perfect blend of comedy and analysis is something like 80/20, because that's what tasteless+artosis (I hate the word tastosis for some reason) is right now.
I'd like to think that things like caster preference is subjective and such, and that all opinions are just as good and sensible as any, but people like you make it hard for me to stay collected you know? Tasteless and Artosis are NOT half as good as some claim, and other casters (Doa/Moletrap/Wolf) are NOT half as bad as these same sheeps would have you believe. They are all okay to listen to, and not one of them is bad enough to ruin the experience itself. Unless, of course, the game itself does not interest you.
Actually their joke rarely gets me laughing; however, the reason i still love them more than any other caster duo (not day9 tho, he's excellent by himself already) is that the high level analysis and excitement they bring to the table.
Artosis's knowledge on the currents builds in all match ups are actually UNMATCHED by any caster, wolf come close, but compare to professor artosis he's still doing his undergrad.
Also, tastosis gets excited when they should be excited. Doa/moletrap just let the excitements die because they actually dont know when something is brilliant and exciting is happening.
Going to be a close series either way, I think. I do not think DongRaeGu is capable of an easy victory over a player as unpredictable and dangerous as MarineKing, and I think MKP's style is definitely capable of beating down the ZvT master in a macro game.
I really like both players, I think this is the strongest MU for both of them, and they've both had enough other success that they're both well deserving of a marquee win.
DRG vs Marineking! So many story lines, another silver for marineking? ZvT EZPZ for DRG? Can't wait :D
On October 02 2011 16:49 ComTrav wrote: Well, I didn't want to sleep anyway...
I really like both players, I think this is the strongest MU for both of them, and they've both had enough other success that they're both well deserving of a marquee win.
DRG got a marquee win when he won Valencia or when he won the LG cinema 3D tournament.
On October 02 2011 16:49 ComTrav wrote: Well, I didn't want to sleep anyway...
I really like both players, I think this is the strongest MU for both of them, and they've both had enough other success that they're both well deserving of a marquee win.
DRG got a marquee win when he won Valencia or when he won the LG cinema 3D tournament.
I do feel silly for forgetting the LG Cinema 3D, especially since that was back when I thought scfou was going to be the Next Big Terran.
On October 02 2011 16:45 GGPope wrote: Brain says DRG, heart of course says MarineKing.
Going to be a close series either way, I think. I do not think DongRaeGu is capable of an easy victory over a player as unpredictable and dangerous as MarineKing, and I think MKP's style is definitely capable of beating down the ZvT master in a macro game.
We shall see, we shall see!
i hope mkp has some sort of master plan then drg plays a very generic style.
On October 02 2011 16:50 Hierarch wrote: DRG vs Marineking! So many story lines, another silver for marineking? ZvT EZPZ for DRG? Can't wait :D
On October 02 2011 16:49 ComTrav wrote: Well, I didn't want to sleep anyway...
I really like both players, I think this is the strongest MU for both of them, and they've both had enough other success that they're both well deserving of a marquee win.
DRG got a marquee win when he won Valencia or when he won the LG cinema 3D tournament.
I do feel silly for forgetting the LG Cinema 3D, especially since that was back when I thought scfou was going to be the Next Big Terran.
That was a sick series also lol, a precursor to another awful GSL finals lol
I cannot watch the stream, same problem as for 2 weekends ago "you need to be a premium user".. And yes i bought the ticket, anyone else having problem?
One wonders how much their preparation for the team league finals impacts this event. DRG has always been a beast in the team league, and MKP has always under performed.
So gomtv is telling me I need a ticket to watch, but I already have a ticket and when i go to buy another ticket it wont let me because it knows I have a ticket......
On October 02 2011 17:10 Paz wrote: So gomtv is telling me I need a ticket to watch, but I already have a ticket and when i go to buy another ticket it wont let me because it knows I have a ticket......
i have the season ticket for this, i watched it yesterday, but i cant watch it now, it says i need to purchase a ticket. tried restarting comp/browser and no change.
On October 02 2011 17:19 Gary Oak wrote: MKP was fucked from the moment his timing push did no damage and got completely wiped out at the start.
Also didn't have defenses against the mutas. (turrets)
That didn't help either. It could've been a snowball effect from him being behind. He was either flustered or wanted to cut corners to replenish his army because he knew he was behind in units.
I can't watch the games LIVE! :\ I paid for the ticket, watched it live yesterday, and now it says i need to buy a ticket to watch. >< Already deleted cookies and restarted PC, nothing worked! Halp, i want to see this game so much ><
On October 02 2011 17:19 dmnum wrote: I used to suck on ZvT
Now I win most of my games just by trying to play like DRG. :D
let's hope someday every Terran in lader ll play like MMA or MVp or Bomber XD
Then I'll be screwed . I used to try to muta harass like idra, but I find DRG's "damage wherever you can" muta harass style much simplier to pull off and much more effective.
On October 02 2011 17:20 Dominico wrote: marineking didn't have a single unit other then scv's after the first battle....did he forget to macro or something..jeez
Cut units for tech + a third while he was pushing.
No amount of clearing cache/cookies seems to be helping, gom is just super bugged for a lot of people judging by the chat on their site.
So frustrating to see "please purchase a ticket" when I click the view link then when I try to buy another ticket it says "You already have this ticket".
Well if I already have it then let me view the fricken tournament!
Q: Your said your winrate on Terminus wasn't good in practice? Nestea: My winrate in practice was really bad. When I lost to MVP I thought it might be that way, and when I lost to Fenix I realized that it was going to be really difficult. I played a lot of games thinking that it was more important to play many games than to win in practice, and when I came here I was able to empty my feelings and have a good result.
has anyone else who paid for the ticket but can't open the stream gotten it to work? Please help, I'm dying right now. This is the same thing that happened during the Group C matches but it was fine ever since until now.
Is there anybody else who cannot access the stream, even though they paid for it? I try to access it and I just get a notice stating that I need to pay for it. I'm wondering if this is just me or if it's a common problem... I contacted GOM support about this before, and they told me the problem has been resolved, but it hasn't.
On October 02 2011 17:30 Paz wrote: No amount of clearing cache/cookies seems to be helping, gom is just super bugged for a lot of people judging by the chat on their site.
So frustrating to see "please purchase a ticket" when I click the view link then when I try to buy another ticket it says "You already have this ticket".
Well if I already have it then let me view the fricken tournament!
I totally agree with you. Thats just stupid, i paid for the ticket and now i can't watch. THE FINALS. Gom starts to get bugged on the FINALS! FFS, thats ridiculous.
A while back when HuK's group was playing, people had the same issue that happening now - even though you paid for the ticket it says the stream requires a ticket to watch. (It's happening to me too >_<)
At least back then, for some of the cases nothing seemed to work besides emailing GOM directly and waiting for their tech support.
Sooooo....if someone would mind doing a Live Report, I'd be eternally grateful : D
It wasn't really greedy too cuz of the 2 rax opener. MKP could of easily walled off with a 3rd rax instead of a supply there to stop baneling bust all ins
I'm so happy! I love MarineKing! I do feel for the people who cannot watch the stream, it reminds me of when I don't disobey my mom and go to lay down.
On October 02 2011 17:37 Fubi wrote: wow, that was a really really good build by MKP.
It wasn't really greedy too cuz of the 2 rax opener.
Ha thanks, I missed it was a 2 rax, thought it was a 1 rax 3CC to 4 rax.
Seems GOM is taking a 5mn break (usually they don't do that in AOL), perhaps it's for fixing the problems of people who paid but can't access the stream.
On October 02 2011 17:37 Fubi wrote: wow, that was a really really good build by MKP.
It wasn't really greedy too cuz of the 2 rax opener. MKP could of easily walled off with a 3rd rax instead of a supply there to stop baneling bust all ins
That was the definition of greed. He had a tiny army with 3 CCs and double upgrades coming in. Bane bust would have insta won but that would have been a really hard call for anyone who isn't julyzerg.
DongRaeGu really needed to scout harder to effectively deal with the strategy that MKP was going for. Shame he missed alot of key information and thus fell to a pretty unstoppable push.
On October 02 2011 17:37 Fubi wrote: wow, that was a really really good build by MKP.
It wasn't really greedy too cuz of the 2 rax opener. MKP could of easily walled off with a 3rd rax instead of a supply there to stop baneling bust all ins
That was the definition of greed. He had a tiny army with 3 CCs and double upgrades coming in. Bane bust would have insta won but that would have been a really hard call for anyone who isn't julyzerg.
I do feel thats where MarineKing's micro comes in, even in game 1 - DRG tried to bust him but he couldnt do any damage.
On October 02 2011 17:37 Fubi wrote: wow, that was a really really good build by MKP.
It wasn't really greedy too cuz of the 2 rax opener. MKP could of easily walled off with a 3rd rax instead of a supply there to stop baneling bust all ins
That was the definition of greed. He had a tiny army with 3 CCs and double upgrades coming in. Bane bust would have insta won but that would have been a really hard call for anyone who isn't julyzerg.
Can you imagine if you combined NesTea with julyzerg? That would be epic.
Honestly I think the only thing keeping July from being above NesTea is that when he decides to attack he doesn't stop, if he ever learned to pressure and then go back to macroing he'd be better than NesTea IMO.
July has a nack for figuring out nice timings where people are being greedy/are just weak and attacking to exploit that. I don't see NesTea really do that very much.
On October 02 2011 17:37 Hall0wed wrote: Oh man that map seems terrible for zergs. That is really too bad. =/
Haha, and DRG chooses dual sight. That's really too bad :p
Dual Sight is fine TvZ.
Maybe not TvDRG though =p
Wow, you're right. I was so sure it was not that I never bothered looking at stats. I have to say I have a hard time believing those stats haha :D So I watched game list, and now I know. Losira vs MC is included, and like 90% of terran wins are foreign games that happened to land in the sc2-korean database it seems. That's how I never see any terran win but the map is still 50-50 in TLPD.
That's a very sad build... I know DRG likes to cut corners, but this is hard to scout and requires a major reaction (mass spines or roaches basically). Well executed too.
DRG doesn't scout double reactor hellions and it's game.
Ya its one of those scout win dont scout die things
not even a scout you need to micro to win, its just scout, make roachs, roll
It's interesting because he scouted the reactor, I would've assumed reactor hellion atleast.
but would you expect 16 hellions? with the meta game being make 4-6 hellions then send that reactor back to the rax, 16 is something you just dont see coming on the first scout
On October 02 2011 17:51 Dominico wrote: spades did this to idra in a team league. every since then i've opened roach vs terran.
Yeah I dont understand why most pros refuse to open roach. Especially now since almost everyone is doing some kind of hellion opening.
I'm always happy if I see roaches as Terran. I just follow Idra's advice and go for a marine, marauder and tank push off 2 bases and that almost always kills em.
DRG doesn't scout double reactor hellions and it's game.
Ya its one of those scout win dont scout die things
not even a scout you need to micro to win, its just scout, make roachs, roll
It's interesting because he scouted the reactor, I would've assumed reactor hellion atleast.
but would you expect 16 hellions? with the meta game being make 4-6 hellions then send that reactor back to the rax, 16 is something you just dont see coming on the first scout
You still need to go roach. At that point you block the ramp with your queens, transfer all drones to the main and make as many roaches as you can and you're fine.
If you already have a roach warren down it's not /too/ hard to stop. Still takes some finesse but it's beatable.
DRG doesn't scout double reactor hellions and it's game.
Ya its one of those scout win dont scout die things
not even a scout you need to micro to win, its just scout, make roachs, roll
It's interesting because he scouted the reactor, I would've assumed reactor hellion atleast.
but would you expect 16 hellions? with the meta game being make 4-6 hellions then send that reactor back to the rax, 16 is something you just dont see coming on the first scout
Exactly; it was a perfect storm of MKP hiding his build well and DRG failing to scout (e.g. Overlord suicide) what he was doing.
DRG doesn't scout double reactor hellions and it's game.
Ya its one of those scout win dont scout die things
not even a scout you need to micro to win, its just scout, make roachs, roll
It's interesting because he scouted the reactor, I would've assumed reactor hellion atleast.
but would you expect 16 hellions? with the meta game being make 4-6 hellions then send that reactor back to the rax, 16 is something you just dont see coming on the first scout
Exactly; it was a perfect storm of MKP hiding his build well and DRG failing to scout (e.g. Overlord suicide) what he was doing.
It's also a buildorder loss if the zerg responds to hellions with roaches (and especially roach pressure). Really big gamble and nice series variation by MKP.
On October 02 2011 18:00 habeck wrote: Damn it is boring to read only
The games have been fairly boring to watch too
First 2 games were alright but there's really not been too much going on, some light harass here and there but it's basically been one guy winning when he pushes.
DRG doesn't scout double reactor hellions and it's game.
Ya its one of those scout win dont scout die things
not even a scout you need to micro to win, its just scout, make roachs, roll
It's interesting because he scouted the reactor, I would've assumed reactor hellion atleast.
but would you expect 16 hellions? with the meta game being make 4-6 hellions then send that reactor back to the rax, 16 is something you just dont see coming on the first scout
Exactly; it was a perfect storm of MKP hiding his build well and DRG failing to scout (e.g. Overlord suicide) what he was doing.
It's also a buildorder loss if the zerg responds to hellions with roaches (and especially roach pressure). Really big gamble and nice series variation by MKP.
Pretty much. MKP was just planning to try to pull a fast one on DRG, hoping for a quick BO win or loss, since it was on Dual Sight (making assumptions here).
I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
He is a very unique player (so many builds), and extremely emotional, if you watched his previous games he cries a lot when he wins or loses. And hes dam good also, been in finals 4 times 5 including this one.
On October 02 2011 18:01 Cuiu wrote: wowoowow i was 1min afk. what happend on belshir?
MKP started pushing when landing his CC, cleaned all the tumors in front of DRG's base for a long time, then finally when stim was done (and blue flame) he pushed into 3 spines, but the slow banelings couldn't help and got roasted by the hellions and some nice micro.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
I'm sorry, but that just means you don't get e-sports.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
most people like him because of the mini documentary that gom did on him, and he seems like a genuinely nice guy who works hard but always gets second place.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
No one said marines were OP before he made them OP. Most people were complaining about marauders.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
most people like him because of the mini documentary that gom did on him, and he seems like a genuinely nice guy who works hard but always gets second place.
Most people were liking him since his first gsl run.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
most people like him because of the mini documentary that gom did on him, and he seems like a genuinely nice guy who works hard but always gets second place.
People liked him way before that and that's why gom made the the documentary, not the other way around.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
obviously if someone manages to get so many 2nd places he's terrible and doesnt deserve to win anything, right?
On October 02 2011 18:01 Q8_Devil wrote: lol, drg need to learn how to make roaches.
MKP obviously studied DRG's style well....
I doubt he can win in a straight up macro game, but he did do his homework very well on preparation.
Pretty much this. After the break we'll see DRG play much more roach-heavy.
MKP just studied DRG very well and so it just seems like he suddenly became a god....and then in 1 week or 1 month when we see him next he'll be back to his usual not-so-godly self.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
I think it's the bold aggression - so reckless that it should lose, but somehow it wins quite often, because he controls units well. MarinKing is the kind of psycho who sees colossus on the ramp and still runs up with his few marines... and wins. (??)
On October 02 2011 18:01 Q8_Devil wrote: lol, drg need to learn how to make roaches.
MKP obviously studied DRG's style well....
I doubt he can win in a straight up macro game, but he did do his homework very well on preparation.
How was that Bel'shir game not a maro game? It wasn't a cheese, or a rush, or a unscoutability. It was good macro play IMO
It's a timing exploiting the fact that DRG doesn't like to make roaches.
It's actually really weird. DRG has done roach/ling/bane compositions/pressures multiple times (even on dual sight in a GSTL game once); I guess he stopped doing it.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
No one said marines were OP before he made them OP. Most people were complaining about marauders.
He changed the TvZ matchup completely.
He popularized the 2 rax build.
He got 2nd place 4 times in GSL.
A lot of people said marines were good before him, they have insane dps and efficency, and how did he change TvZ ? Dont terran do marine/tank/medivacs anymore ?
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
obviously if someone manages to get so many 2nd places he's terrible and doesnt deserve to win anything, right?
Where do you see him saying he was terrible and didn't deserve to win things? Seriously, grow up.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
You poor bastard. You missed GSL2.
It's not your fault, it was a busy time in all our lives.
Go buy GSL season 2. Start watching the player known then as "Boxer". Note the rage, Artosis HATES him. Watch him kill the former champion fruitdealer... then watch the exact moment when rage turns to admiration as Foxer shows terran how to micro in what is STILL one of the best GSL series to date (MKP vs Kyrix). Think he can only do that TvZ? Watch the next series.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
He's produced some of the most entertaining games in gsl. That's really it.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
Being in the finals for the 5th time undoubtedly draws a ton of attention. Along with that, his aggressive style of play is inspirational, and he just has so many memorable series and games.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
It probably has something to do with the fact that he revolutionised TvZ. Or that he used to have the best micro. Or that he's talented enough to reach 5 finals. Or that he makes for really entertaining games (especially TvT, bio vs mech anyone??). Plus he's pretty young.
And marines are one of the most entertaining units in the game. Ever watched MVP/Bomber micro marines? Marine splitting, spreading, strutter stepping... The unit is just really felxible and microable
How can some people be surprised that MKP is in the lead, DRG lost to Bomber who even lost TvZ against Moon. Bomber is amazing and trained his TvZ so he was then better at it but still MKP has always been top 3 TvZ with Mvp and MMA...
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
No one said marines were OP before he made them OP. Most people were complaining about marauders.
He changed the TvZ matchup completely.
He popularized the 2 rax build.
He got 2nd place 4 times in GSL.
A lot of people said marines were good before him, they have insane dps and efficency, and how did he change TvZ ? Dont terran do marine/tank/medivacs anymore ?
Watch Kyrix vs MKP from Open Season 2, as well as their matches against other opponents.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
obviously if someone manages to get so many 2nd places he's terrible and doesnt deserve to win anything, right?
Where do you see him saying he was terrible and didn't deserve to win things? Seriously, grow up.
yea you're right. still i dont understand how can anyone have that attitude towards mkp
So that would be a yes to 'do people feel sorry for him'
I admit he's one of the better T's and doesn't belong in with Polts designated 'doesnt deserve CodeS' group but in my eyes there's nothing about him which says to me he deserves it more than say Bomber or MMA
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
How can't you like him? He got into GSL Open 2 from nowhere. And after a very scrappy first round, he picked himself up and beat Kyrix in an amazing matter, he beat both GSL Open 1 finalists on his way to give Nestea the scare of his life, being the only player to take a game of him and ending the finals at 4-3 in Nestea's favour. He changed the complete matchup in that tournament.
In GSL Jan, he showed of that Marines worked in TvT as well. The match against NaDa comes to mind.
He just delivers great matches time and time again.
He wears his heart on his sleeve and the Kong line helps him to get some popularity as well.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
No one said marines were OP before he made them OP. Most people were complaining about marauders.
He changed the TvZ matchup completely.
He popularized the 2 rax build.
He got 2nd place 4 times in GSL.
A lot of people said marines were good before him, they have insane dps and efficency, and how did he change TvZ ? Dont terran do marine/tank/medivacs anymore ?
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
No one said marines were OP before he made them OP. Most people were complaining about marauders.
He changed the TvZ matchup completely.
He popularized the 2 rax build.
He got 2nd place 4 times in GSL.
A lot of people said marines were good before him, they have insane dps and efficency, and how did he change TvZ ? Dont terran do marine/tank/medivacs anymore ?
Watch his games from GSL2, specifically against Kyrix. He was the first one to really do marine splitting and make them work against banelings.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
No one said marines were OP before he made them OP. Most people were complaining about marauders.
He changed the TvZ matchup completely.
He popularized the 2 rax build.
He got 2nd place 4 times in GSL.
A lot of people said marines were good before him, they have insane dps and efficency, and how did he change TvZ ? Dont terran do marine/tank/medivacs anymore ?
Hmm....i guess that explains why some people dont get why people like MKP, they obviously dont know much about the game.
Here's a hint about using marines: you gotta micro them.
I know it sounds obvious, but no one really does that before MKP appeared....
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
You poor bastard. You missed GSL2.
It's not your fault, it was a busy time in all our lives.
Go buy GSL season 2. Start watching the player known then as "Boxer". Note the rage, Artosis HATES him. Watch him kill the former champion fruitdealer... then watch the exact moment when rage turns to admiration as Foxer shows terran how to micro in what is STILL one of the best GSL series to date (MKP vs Kyrix). Think he can only do that TvZ? Watch the next series.
Beat me to it. I know I wasn't the only person who was converted to, and remains, a MKP fan after his series against Kyrix in GSL2.
The most recent example of a flash of brilliance from MKP that I can recall was game 4 against Leenock in GSL August... I know the majority of his play seems uninspiring, but games like that keep me hooked into MarineKing.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
How can't you like him? He got into GSL Open 2 from nowhere. And after a very scrappy first round, he picked himself up and beat Kyrix in an amazing matter, he beat both GSL Open 1 finalists on his way to give Nestea the scare of his life, being the only player to take a game of him and ending the finals at 4-3 in Nestea's favour. He changed the complete matchup in that tournament.
In GSL Jan, he showed of that Marines worked in TvT as well. The match against NaDa comes to mind.
He just delivers great matches time and time again.
He wears his heart on his sleeve and the Kong line helps him to get some popularity as well.
He just won me over at the start I guess
The into GSL Open 2 'from nowhere' thing made me laugh. Not only were half (guess) the qualifiers new, he played BW (and not very well [relatively])
On October 02 2011 18:08 Eishi_Ki wrote: So that would be a yes to 'do people feel sorry for him'
I admit he's one of the better T's and doesn't belong in with Polts designated 'doesnt deserve CodeS' group but in my eyes there's nothing about him which says to me he deserves it more than say Bomber or MMA
edit: by 'it' I mean a win
sometimes people don't support players because they are the best players, notice how there are fans for foreigners when they are actually no where near as good as mvp and nestea, seriously grow the hell up.
On October 02 2011 18:08 Eishi_Ki wrote: So that would be a yes to 'do people feel sorry for him'
I admit he's one of the better T's and doesn't belong in with Polts designated 'doesnt deserve CodeS' group but in my eyes there's nothing about him which says to me he deserves it more than say Bomber or MMA
edit: by 'it' I mean a win
So... reading comprehension is something you struggle with?
Again. Watch even just game one and five against Kyrix in GSL2. Or, alternatively, accept that that series showed what was at the time the best micro of any terran, and truly revolutionized TvZ. Prior to that, banelings were thought to be THE counter to marines. MKP begged to differ.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
How can't you like him? He got into GSL Open 2 from nowhere. And after a very scrappy first round, he picked himself up and beat Kyrix in an amazing matter, he beat both GSL Open 1 finalists on his way to give Nestea the scare of his life, being the only player to take a game of him and ending the finals at 4-3 in Nestea's favour. He changed the complete matchup in that tournament.
In GSL Jan, he showed of that Marines worked in TvT as well. The match against NaDa comes to mind.
He just delivers great matches time and time again.
He wears his heart on his sleeve and the Kong line helps him to get some popularity as well.
He just won me over at the start I guess
The into GSL Open 2 'from nowhere' thing made me laugh. Not only were half (guess) the qualifiers new, he played BW (and not very well [relatively])
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
No one said marines were OP before he made them OP. Most people were complaining about marauders.
He changed the TvZ matchup completely.
He popularized the 2 rax build.
He got 2nd place 4 times in GSL.
A lot of people said marines were good before him, they have insane dps and efficency, and how did he change TvZ ? Dont terran do marine/tank/medivacs anymore ?
Before MKP vs Kyrix, NO ONE knew that splitting marines against Banelings was effective.
DRG playing stupid....no roaches against MKP's hellion style..roaches aren't that good vs terran, but even a few roaches in the beginning of the game could've saved him.
MarineKing is one of the most influential players in this game and up until he slumped he was considered the only one who could actually somewhat match the big 3
things have changed yes, but he will still have fans from that era. He changed TvZ and TvT, invented techniques that are still used to this day and he has an insane amount of talent for someone that young
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
You poor bastard. You missed GSL2.
It's not your fault, it was a busy time in all our lives.
Go buy GSL season 2. Start watching the player known then as "Boxer". Note the rage, Artosis HATES him. Watch him kill the former champion fruitdealer... then watch the exact moment when rage turns to admiration as Foxer shows terran how to micro in what is STILL one of the best GSL series to date (MKP vs Kyrix). Think he can only do that TvZ? Watch the next series.
Boxer vs Kyrix on Shakuras. The entire series is awesome, but that game alone was something else.
So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
No one said marines were OP before he made them OP. Most people were complaining about marauders.
He changed the TvZ matchup completely.
He popularized the 2 rax build.
He got 2nd place 4 times in GSL.
A lot of people said marines were good before him, they have insane dps and efficency, and how did he change TvZ ? Dont terran do marine/tank/medivacs anymore ?
Before MKP vs Kyrix, NO ONE knew that splitting marines against Banelings was effective.
No, MVP was the first to split marines, but MKP just made it really famous through that series and being only marine heavy.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
How can't you like him? He got into GSL Open 2 from nowhere. And after a very scrappy first round, he picked himself up and beat Kyrix in an amazing matter, he beat both GSL Open 1 finalists on his way to give Nestea the scare of his life, being the only player to take a game of him and ending the finals at 4-3 in Nestea's favour. He changed the complete matchup in that tournament.
In GSL Jan, he showed of that Marines worked in TvT as well. The match against NaDa comes to mind.
He just delivers great matches time and time again.
He wears his heart on his sleeve and the Kong line helps him to get some popularity as well.
He just won me over at the start I guess
The into GSL Open 2 'from nowhere' thing made me laugh. Not only were half (guess) the qualifiers new, he played BW (and not very well [relatively])
Although there were a ton of new players on GSL2, MKP had what was arguably the hardest road to the finals, having to get through recent GSL1 winner Fruitdealer, runner-up Rainbow, and the then-formidable Kyrix to get to the finals where he almost beat Nestea.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
You poor bastard. You missed GSL2.
It's not your fault, it was a busy time in all our lives.
Go buy GSL season 2. Start watching the player known then as "Boxer". Note the rage, Artosis HATES him. Watch him kill the former champion fruitdealer... then watch the exact moment when rage turns to admiration as Foxer shows terran how to micro in what is STILL one of the best GSL series to date (MKP vs Kyrix). Think he can only do that TvZ? Watch the next series.
Beat me to it. I know I wasn't the only person who was converted to, and remains, a MKP fan after his series against Kyrix in GSL2.
The most recent example of a flash of brilliance from MKP that I can recall was game 4 against Leenock in GSL August... I know the majority of his play seems uninspiring, but games like that keep me hooked into MarineKing.
Oh man, yeah, those splits. Mkp such a beast. I don't know how he held that.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
No one said marines were OP before he made them OP. Most people were complaining about marauders.
He changed the TvZ matchup completely.
He popularized the 2 rax build.
He got 2nd place 4 times in GSL.
A lot of people said marines were good before him, they have insane dps and efficency, and how did he change TvZ ? Dont terran do marine/tank/medivacs anymore ?
Before MKP vs Kyrix, NO ONE knew that splitting marines against Banelings was effective.
Not true, MVP was splitting marines in his sets vs Zenio in season 2 in the Ro32 or 64, before MKP vs kyrix happened.
Wow, I bought the $5 pass just for the finals, and even at the price of a bus fare, that was not worth it. The last 3 games were just MKP makes hellions, and DRG has no units to defend. Another terrible GSL finals.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
No one said marines were OP before he made them OP. Most people were complaining about marauders.
He changed the TvZ matchup completely.
He popularized the 2 rax build.
He got 2nd place 4 times in GSL.
A lot of people said marines were good before him, they have insane dps and efficency, and how did he change TvZ ? Dont terran do marine/tank/medivacs anymore ?
Before MKP vs Kyrix, NO ONE knew that splitting marines against Banelings was effective.
So true. Sometimes it seems like that all those MKP Haters didnt even watch that series.
Can't watch the game, but from what I read poor DongRaeGusta is being torched to death. I would never have bet on this, seeing how fearful is DRG's vT. One part of me is sad because it probably means he'll get owned this final, but another part is happy because he'll work on his vT even more and it will get magic.
mkp fanboys gonna explode from insane amount of love. Not even close to entretained with those matches. The same stuff, over and over, since the 3rd game.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
You poor bastard. You missed GSL2.
It's not your fault, it was a busy time in all our lives.
Go buy GSL season 2. Start watching the player known then as "Boxer". Note the rage, Artosis HATES him. Watch him kill the former champion fruitdealer... then watch the exact moment when rage turns to admiration as Foxer shows terran how to micro in what is STILL one of the best GSL series to date (MKP vs Kyrix). Think he can only do that TvZ? Watch the next series.
Boxer vs Kyrix on Shakuras. The entire series is awesome, but that game alone was something else.
With Artosis orgasming at each marine split <3 I think I watched this whole serie dozen and dozen times.
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
On October 02 2011 18:14 alan25 wrote: SO SUMMARY FOR ALL THE GAMES? mass hellions for all?
Some timing attack early game that killed DRG or put him ridiculously behind. This is the "easiest" way to beat DRG and that's to kill him before he gets to the mid game with 3 bases.
Damn. That build on bel'shir really punishes the lingbling into muta builds which are very common, I'm not really sure what DRG could've done different except for going roaches. He even had 2 spines, queens and 10-15 banelings + zerglings. Usually T Pushes with marines and 6 or so blueflames, but now he had 10 blueflames and exceptional micro.
Same with the mass hellion build on dual sight, extremely hard to hold without roaches.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
You poor bastard. You missed GSL2.
It's not your fault, it was a busy time in all our lives.
Go buy GSL season 2. Start watching the player known then as "Boxer". Note the rage, Artosis HATES him. Watch him kill the former champion fruitdealer... then watch the exact moment when rage turns to admiration as Foxer shows terran how to micro in what is STILL one of the best GSL series to date (MKP vs Kyrix). Think he can only do that TvZ? Watch the next series.
Boxer vs Kyrix on Shakuras. The entire series is awesome, but that game alone was something else.
Yeah. I still like how MKP forgets Combat Shields.
His fruitdealer games are ok, but they were more shocking at the time. FruitDealer had just won a terran-heavy season 1 at a time when TvZ was widely considered imbalanced, and (as today) MKP exploited wonky timings to kill him. My personal favorite is when MKP walks into Fruit Dealer's base with like five marines, snipes an overlord, and leaves. (On Jungle Basin or something, ick.)
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
How can't you like him? He got into GSL Open 2 from nowhere. And after a very scrappy first round, he picked himself up and beat Kyrix in an amazing matter, he beat both GSL Open 1 finalists on his way to give Nestea the scare of his life, being the only player to take a game of him and ending the finals at 4-3 in Nestea's favour. He changed the complete matchup in that tournament.
In GSL Jan, he showed of that Marines worked in TvT as well. The match against NaDa comes to mind.
He just delivers great matches time and time again.
He wears his heart on his sleeve and the Kong line helps him to get some popularity as well.
He just won me over at the start I guess
The into GSL Open 2 'from nowhere' thing made me laugh. Not only were half (guess) the qualifiers new, he played BW (and not very well [relatively])
I'm glad I made you giggle I just meant most players were already playing in GSL 1. MKP just arrived in GSL 2 using BoxeR's ID and people were just laughing at him for being a BoxeR fanboy thinking he's good enough to actually compete
On October 02 2011 18:16 Kogutz wrote: mkp fanboys gonna explode from insane amount of love. Not even close to entretained with those matches. The same stuff, over and over, since the 3rd game.
why would he change when its working? Why didnt DRG make roches? We will never know.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
You poor bastard. You missed GSL2.
It's not your fault, it was a busy time in all our lives.
Go buy GSL season 2. Start watching the player known then as "Boxer". Note the rage, Artosis HATES him. Watch him kill the former champion fruitdealer... then watch the exact moment when rage turns to admiration as Foxer shows terran how to micro in what is STILL one of the best GSL series to date (MKP vs Kyrix). Think he can only do that TvZ? Watch the next series.
Beat me to it. I know I wasn't the only person who was converted to, and remains, a MKP fan after his series against Kyrix in GSL2.
The most recent example of a flash of brilliance from MKP that I can recall was game 4 against Leenock in GSL August... I know the majority of his play seems uninspiring, but games like that keep me hooked into MarineKing.
Oh man, yeah, those splits. Mkp such a beast. I don't know how he held that.
Agreed. Game 5 was often overlooked due to the shock value having worn off slightly from the earlier games, but it was even BETTER in my opinion. Still TONNES of great marine splits.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
No one said marines were OP before he made them OP. Most people were complaining about marauders.
He changed the TvZ matchup completely.
He popularized the 2 rax build.
He got 2nd place 4 times in GSL.
A lot of people said marines were good before him, they have insane dps and efficency, and how did he change TvZ ? Dont terran do marine/tank/medivacs anymore ?
Before MKP vs Kyrix, NO ONE knew that splitting marines against Banelings was effective.
No, MVP was the first to split marines, but MKP just made it really famous through that series and being only marine heavy.
On October 02 2011 18:13 Itsmedudeman wrote: DRG is absolutely getting figured out in this series.
He lost the game the way MMA lost to Polt.
"Kill him before mid game".
It's actually a very good strategy.
Except MMA is known to have really weak early game, while DRG is known to have really good early game D and harrasment prevention.
Doesn't matter about how good DRG is at defending, just comes down to builds and unit composition. MKP basically knew DRG was never going roaches, so all he had to do was mass helions in different ways to beat anything ling heavy. Go with some spines? Just do some helion drops. Pretty simple, and DRG really needed more time in between games and some good coaching after the 3rd game.
On October 02 2011 18:14 JohnnyBlaze420 wrote: marine king too scared to play macro games against drg....
Stop crying. DRG doesn't know how to make roaches.
While you're right about the first part, DRG is somewhat famous for his very aggressive roach timings ZvT. The problem is that it is just as gimmicky, and going roaches for safety on a map like TDA means you lose the macro game pretty hard. The roaches can clear the rocks at the 3rd so it's not as bad as it used to be (though the map is obviously much, much better for TvZ than it used to), but you need mutas to delay/deal with any tank/marine push which is just so, so strong when you can siege the natural this easily.
Marineking mixed his pressure very well, mixing full hellions, marine/hellions and hellion elevator. Don't act like DRG is mentally challenged for not going roaches, when going roaches is just as big a gamble as relying on queen/ling micro to defend.
Decent series overall, MarineKing deserved that win, he played great games.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
I agree completely. I feel like I'm in bizarro world where this boring gimmicky abusive 1 baser has a huge fan base. I feel confident in saying if mkp played the way he plays now(now being since the earl seasons where he got popular with marine splits) people would hate him.
like what do u do against mass hellion? not make zling till u go lair/overseer scout the factories and premake a roach warren every game? or mass 4 spines per base?
Heh, yeah, I did watch GSL Season 2, thanks to the members of Club 2010 for reminding me about that. Yes, I did watch MKP vs Kyrix (live) and yes, I enjoyed the game, did it startle me though? No, no it didn't (maybe experience of BW talking).
Was that series entertaining? I guess some people did. I did not. DRG made mistakes certainly but I'd prefer to watch a match where gimmick, abusive strategies were not utilised.
Well done MKP. Commentators were not interested, nor am I.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
You poor bastard. You missed GSL2.
It's not your fault, it was a busy time in all our lives.
Go buy GSL season 2. Start watching the player known then as "Boxer". Note the rage, Artosis HATES him. Watch him kill the former champion fruitdealer... then watch the exact moment when rage turns to admiration as Foxer shows terran how to micro in what is STILL one of the best GSL series to date (MKP vs Kyrix). Think he can only do that TvZ? Watch the next series.
Boxer vs Kyrix on Shakuras. The entire series is awesome, but that game alone was something else.
Yeah. I still like how MKP forgets Combat Shields.
His fruitdealer games are ok, but they were more shocking at the time. FruitDealer had just won a terran-heavy season 1 at a time when TvZ was widely considered imbalanced, and (as today) MKP exploited wonky timings to kill him. My personal favorite is when MKP walks into Fruit Dealer's base with like five marines, snipes an overlord, and leaves. (On Jungle Basin or something, ick.)
Fact is, MarineKing was the only Terran who knew how to TvZ.
so many pseudo intellectuals on TL who just copy someone else's opinion rather than making up their own mind
On October 02 2011 18:21 jjhchsc2 wrote: wow congratz MKP!!!! CHYEA cant believe he beat drg in dual sight, taldarim and belshir.
How were the games?
The games were excellent. Now if mkp only fixes his tvt, which is mainly caused by his refusal to go mech, he'd be back to being a boss in no time! His tvz and tvp and still good, but his tvt is still awful right now. I don't know how many times he needs to lose bio vs mech before he realizes it doesn't work and goes mech himself. Hopefully one day he will learn.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
I agree completely. I feel like I'm in bizarro world where this boring gimmicky abusive 1 baser has a huge fan base. I feel confident in saying if mkp played the way he plays now(now being since the earl seasons where he got popular with marine splits) people would hate him.
On October 02 2011 18:16 Kogutz wrote: mkp fanboys gonna explode from insane amount of love. Not even close to entretained with those matches. The same stuff, over and over, since the 3rd game.
why would he change when its working? Why didnt DRG make roches? We will never know.
I really don't understand it. DRG has been having tons of success in TvZ with his early roach pressure builds, yet he chooses not to do a single one against MKP despite his obvious predeliction towards hellions. Just a weird, weird game.
Congrats to MKP, but this final was pretty silly in typical GSL fashion.
Seems MKP prepared pretty well for this serie. What I fear is that the timing he used are a good counter at DRG standard vT, and that could shake DRG enough to send him in a megaslump. (in addition to every terran copying MKP builds and pwning DRG with those) I hope not
On October 02 2011 18:21 alan25 wrote: like what do u do against mass hellion? not make zling till u go lair/overseer scout the factories and premake a roach warren every game? or mass 4 spines per base?
What? Why do people act as if a roach warren is a big investment. Making 20 roaches is a heavy tech investment, making a roach warren and like 4 roaches to defend heavy helion play or maybe some pressure from a few marines is not and you can transition into mutas okay.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
No one said marines were OP before he made them OP. Most people were complaining about marauders.
He changed the TvZ matchup completely.
He popularized the 2 rax build.
He got 2nd place 4 times in GSL.
A lot of people said marines were good before him, they have insane dps and efficency, and how did he change TvZ ? Dont terran do marine/tank/medivacs anymore ?
Before MKP vs Kyrix, NO ONE knew that splitting marines against Banelings was effective.
No, MVP was the first to split marines, but MKP just made it really famous through that series and being only marine heavy.
MVP might have done it during the games, but MKP made it famous not only because he really good at it, but also because his pure marine strategy SOLELY depends on the fact that splitted marines are cost effective enough to kill banelings.
On October 02 2011 18:21 Eishi_Ki wrote: Heh, yeah, I did watch GSL Season 2, thanks to the members of Club 2010 for reminding me about that. Yes, I did watch MKP vs Kyrix (live) and yes, I enjoyed the game, did it startle me though? No, no it didn't (maybe experience of BW talking).
Was that series entertaining? I guess some people did. I did not. DRG made mistakes certainly but I'd prefer to watch a match where gimmick, abusive strategies were not utilised.
Well done MKP. Commentators were not interested, nor am I.
Time for bed.
Haha, now the broodwar card "You enjoyed that because you didn't watched broodwar." This is the godwin point of the sc discussion, well done.
On October 02 2011 18:14 JohnnyBlaze420 wrote: marine king too scared to play macro games against drg....
Stop crying. DRG doesn't know how to make roaches.
While you're right about the first part, DRG is somewhat famous for his very aggressive roach timings ZvT. The problem is that it is just as gimmicky, and going roaches for safety on a map like TDA means you lose the macro game pretty hard. The roaches can clear the rocks at the 3rd so it's not as bad as it used to be (though the map is obviously much, much better for TvZ than it used to), but you need mutas to delay/deal with any tank/marine push which is just so, so strong when you can siege the natural this easily.
Marineking mixed his pressure very well, mixing full hellions, marine/hellions and hellion elevator. Don't act like DRG is mentally challenged for not going roaches, when going roaches is just as big a gamble as relying on queen/ling micro to defend.
Decent series overall, MarineKing deserved that win, he played great games.
2-3 roaches isn't that big of an investment, but definitely enough to hold off a huge hellion harassments
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
I agree completely. I feel like I'm in bizarro world where this boring gimmicky abusive 1 baser has a huge fan base. I feel confident in saying if mkp played the way he plays now(now being since the earl seasons where he got popular with marine splits) people would hate him.
you should not even reply to some of these people.
a dude claiming that MKP is a "gimmicky abusive 1 baser" when he basically popularized the 1 rax expand and was ALREADY expanding in season2/3 where all the other terrans were 1 basing...
this guy obviously does not watch the GSL or he's seriously uninformed
I didn't get to watch (didn't pay) but I posted in previous round that if MKP advances to final he would beat DRG. MKP is in my eyes #1 TvZ player. You need not see further than his series v. Leenock where he basically beats Leenock with marines, marines, and more marines.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
I agree completely. I feel like I'm in bizarro world where this boring gimmicky abusive 1 baser has a huge fan base. I feel confident in saying if mkp played the way he plays now(now being since the earl seasons where he got popular with marine splits) people would hate him.
I have seen as 90+% of his games in tournaments, I don't see to see more of his play to know what he does very detailed. I hate it. I hate everything about his play.
On October 02 2011 18:21 Eishi_Ki wrote: Heh, yeah, I did watch GSL Season 2, thanks to the members of Club 2010 for reminding me about that. Yes, I did watch MKP vs Kyrix (live) and yes, I enjoyed the game, did it startle me though? No, no it didn't (maybe experience of BW talking).
Was that series entertaining? I guess some people did. I did not. DRG made mistakes certainly but I'd prefer to watch a match where gimmick, abusive strategies were not utilised.
Well done MKP. Commentators were not interested, nor am I.
Time for bed.
"I watched the game, but I dont understand why it changed the entire TvZ matchup because I played BW, a better game!"
Sick argument there bro, good job mixing up opinions from facts.
On October 02 2011 18:24 HaXXspetten wrote: Wow MKP actually won a tournament? Anyone got a full live report of what happened? (Don't feel like reading through 23 pages -.-)
Well, it's not an official GSL and only a special event, so it's fine for Kongs to win it. YellOw's "Special Event King" powers transferring to MKP in addition to his Kong curse.
Also, there is a lot of misunderstanding going around about MKP in this LR thread. He is a solid Terran player, with solid micro and macro to accompany his sometimes highly stylistic play.
On October 02 2011 18:24 HaXXspetten wrote: Wow MKP actually won a tournament? Anyone got a full live report of what happened? (Don't feel like reading through 23 pages -.-)
game 1:
MKP tries stim/shield +1 timing. DRG crushes it and picks him apart till gg
game 2:
MKP goes 2 rax double expo double ebay. DRG doesn't do anything to it, MKP gets to about 170 sup and 3-3. pushes and wins.
game 3:
MKP goes double reactor hellions, DRG just dies.
game 4:
MKP goes marines + blueflame. DRG just dies.
game 5:
MKP goes mass redflame hellions + follow up banshee. DRG just dies
On October 02 2011 18:21 jjhchsc2 wrote: wow congratz MKP!!!! CHYEA cant believe he beat drg in dual sight, taldarim and belshir.
How were the games?
The games were excellent. Now if mkp only fixes his tvt, which is mainly caused by his refusal to go mech, he'd be back to being a boss in no time! His tvz and tvp and still good, but his tvt is still awful right now. I don't know how many times he needs to lose bio vs mech before he realizes it doesn't work and goes mech himself. Hopefully one day he will learn.
Didn't he beat MMA in the semi finals? i didnt watch any of the games but it was a 3-0 sweep from the results.
also reading through this LR is quite painful with alot of hatred and whining towards MKP.
What I find funny is most people who call MKP gimmicky are huge fans of MMA who completely falls apart when his drops get shut down
He does a lot of timings yes, that's him being smart. MVP does a lot of timings too. Most Terrans... do a lot of timings. It's just that in MarineKing/MVP's case it usually ends the game since they have incredible micro.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
I agree completely. I feel like I'm in bizarro world where this boring gimmicky abusive 1 baser has a huge fan base. I feel confident in saying if mkp played the way he plays now(now being since the earl seasons where he got popular with marine splits) people would hate him.
I have seen as 90+% of his games in tournaments, I don't see to see more of his play to know what he does very detailed. I hate it. I hate everything about his play.
I don't understand why MKP is receiving so much hate. He played very well, all his builds were different. He basically won three games with hellions, but he did it in a different way each time. DRG just got outplayed, he even knew the elevator was coming in the last game - well that or a drop and he wasn't prepared for either. MKP just got in his head game 3 and the series was already over after that. It was pretty spectacular to see the "supposed" best ZvT in the world get crushed. I'd put my money on it that Nestea would've beaten him again had they met in this finals. Either way.
On October 02 2011 18:21 jjhchsc2 wrote: wow congratz MKP!!!! CHYEA cant believe he beat drg in dual sight, taldarim and belshir.
How were the games?
The games were excellent. Now if mkp only fixes his tvt, which is mainly caused by his refusal to go mech, he'd be back to being a boss in no time! His tvz and tvp and still good, but his tvt is still awful right now. I don't know how many times he needs to lose bio vs mech before he realizes it doesn't work and goes mech himself. Hopefully one day he will learn.
He destroyed MMA to get to the finals - MKP's tvt is just fine.
On October 02 2011 18:25 usethis2 wrote: I didn't get to watch (didn't pay) but I posted in previous round that if MKP advances to final he would beat DRG. MKP is in my eyes #1 TvZ player. You need not see further than his series v. Leenock where he basically beats Leenock with marines, marines, and more marines.
mmm, i don't know about #1, but he's definitely up there. I still can't forget his Code A games against Slayers_Yugioh, they wern't too pretty
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
On October 02 2011 18:21 jjhchsc2 wrote: wow congratz MKP!!!! CHYEA cant believe he beat drg in dual sight, taldarim and belshir.
How were the games?
The games were excellent. Now if mkp only fixes his tvt, which is mainly caused by his refusal to go mech, he'd be back to being a boss in no time! His tvz and tvp and still good, but his tvt is still awful right now. I don't know how many times he needs to lose bio vs mech before he realizes it doesn't work and goes mech himself. Hopefully one day he will learn.
He destroyed MMA to get to the finals - MKP's tvt is just fine.
That series was about the worst TvT in the GSL lol
I think after the change, terminus is quickly becoming the least favourite map for Zergs.........I think it's actually very imbalanced the way it is right now.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
I agree completely. I feel like I'm in bizarro world where this boring gimmicky abusive 1 baser has a huge fan base. I feel confident in saying if mkp played the way he plays now(now being since the earl seasons where he got popular with marine splits) people would hate him.
I have seen as 90+% of his games in tournaments, I don't see to see more of his play to know what he does very detailed. I hate it. I hate everything about his play.
Well u are completly entitled to hate him, we all have players we don't like of course.
But dont label him as a gimicky 1 base player, he actually is more known for 1 rax expanding.
On October 02 2011 18:21 jjhchsc2 wrote: wow congratz MKP!!!! CHYEA cant believe he beat drg in dual sight, taldarim and belshir.
How were the games?
The games were excellent. Now if mkp only fixes his tvt, which is mainly caused by his refusal to go mech, he'd be back to being a boss in no time! His tvz and tvp and still good, but his tvt is still awful right now. I don't know how many times he needs to lose bio vs mech before he realizes it doesn't work and goes mech himself. Hopefully one day he will learn.
Didn't he beat MMA in the semi finals? i didnt watch any of the games but it was a 3-0 sweep from the results.
also reading through this LR is quite painful with alot of hatred and whining towards MKP.
Guess haters are gonna hate.... -.-
He beat him because Mech is back to no longer being the insanely strong strat that it was when MKP fell down to code A. Now it is completely viable and maybe even better to just do multi tasking bio in TvT.
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
This format is the same as MLG. People didn't get time to prepare for their opponents, therefore they didn't play as well as they would usually. They still played standard.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
I agree completely. I feel like I'm in bizarro world where this boring gimmicky abusive 1 baser has a huge fan base. I feel confident in saying if mkp played the way he plays now(now being since the earl seasons where he got popular with marine splits) people would hate him.
you should not even reply to some of these people.
a dude claiming that MKP is a "gimmicky abusive 1 baser" when he basically popularized the 1 rax expand and was ALREADY expanding in season2/3 where all the other terrans were 1 basing...
this guy obviously does not watch the GSL or he's seriously uninformed
I have seen almost the entirely of GSL. I have missed a few games here and there but 99% of GSL I have seen. I call him a gimmicky abusive 1 baser not because everything he does is a gimmicky abusive 1 base play but because he does many gimmicky strategies, many abusive strategies, and many 1 base strategies. He can play a straight up game just fine, that just makes it more annoying when he does such a high rate of really lame builds.
He is famous for mass marine vs banes. This is the definition of a gimmicky play. He is famous for base trades. For MMM vs zerg and vs terran(both gimmicky). He does stuff like double reactored hellions, or 2port banshee a lot. He was very well known for 2 rax with scv pull. He does the 1/1/1 quite a lot. I can go on all day with this.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
I agree completely. I feel like I'm in bizarro world where this boring gimmicky abusive 1 baser has a huge fan base. I feel confident in saying if mkp played the way he plays now(now being since the earl seasons where he got popular with marine splits) people would hate him.
I have seen as 90+% of his games in tournaments, I don't see to see more of his play to know what he does very detailed. I hate it. I hate everything about his play.
Well u are completly entitled to hate him, we all have players we don't like of course.
But dont label him as a gimicky 1 base player, he actually is more known for 1 rax expanding.
Don't bother with Maghetti. I have had detailed arguments/discussions with him in previous LR threads concerning MKP before and they're all the "same" MKP hate/1 base gimmick things. Check my profile if you want to see them.
On October 02 2011 18:21 jjhchsc2 wrote: wow congratz MKP!!!! CHYEA cant believe he beat drg in dual sight, taldarim and belshir.
How were the games?
The games were excellent. Now if mkp only fixes his tvt, which is mainly caused by his refusal to go mech, he'd be back to being a boss in no time! His tvz and tvp and still good, but his tvt is still awful right now. I don't know how many times he needs to lose bio vs mech before he realizes it doesn't work and goes mech himself. Hopefully one day he will learn.
He destroyed MMA to get to the finals - MKP's tvt is just fine.
Yes, he destroyed MMA in this tourney. However, that was just one series. Plus as mkp's number 1 fanboy, I can tell you his tvt is not fine and is one of the main reasons for his slump. He's been losing tvt left and right for a while now and mostly because he keeps going bio against mech and losing like he did against clide. His refusal to go mech tvt is why he loses a lot of tvt. You just don't win going bio vs mech when the meching player plays mech well.
Losing to ryung/bomber dropped him to 3rd in his code s group too. The first time he dropped to code a and made up/down, he went 1-3 in group and lost to 3Ts, ryung, happy and dream. This past up/down when he made it, he only had 1 terran in his group taeja and he lost to him. I want mkp to fix his tvt for his sake because once he does, he'll go back to being beastly and a threat to win gsl again.
On October 02 2011 18:21 jjhchsc2 wrote: wow congratz MKP!!!! CHYEA cant believe he beat drg in dual sight, taldarim and belshir.
How were the games?
The games were excellent. Now if mkp only fixes his tvt, which is mainly caused by his refusal to go mech, he'd be back to being a boss in no time! His tvz and tvp and still good, but his tvt is still awful right now. I don't know how many times he needs to lose bio vs mech before he realizes it doesn't work and goes mech himself. Hopefully one day he will learn.
He destroyed MMA to get to the finals - MKP's tvt is just fine.
Yes, he destroyed MMA in this tourney. However, that was just one series. Plus as mkp's number 1 fanboy, I can tell you his tvt is not fine and is one of the main reasons for his slump. He's been losing tvt left and right for a while now and mostly because he keeps going bio against mech and losing like he did against clide. His refusal to go mech tvt is why he loses a lot of tvt. You just don't win going bio vs mech when the meching player plays mech well.
Losing to ryung/bomber dropped him to 3rd in his code s group too. The first time he dropped to code a and made up/down, he went 1-3 in group and lost to 3Ts, ryung, happy and dream. This past up/down when he made it, he only had 1 terran in his group taeja and he lost to him.
I agree with you on most of the things you said except that I am MKP's Nr.1 Fanboy.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
I agree completely. I feel like I'm in bizarro world where this boring gimmicky abusive 1 baser has a huge fan base. I feel confident in saying if mkp played the way he plays now(now being since the earl seasons where he got popular with marine splits) people would hate him.
you should not even reply to some of these people.
a dude claiming that MKP is a "gimmicky abusive 1 baser" when he basically popularized the 1 rax expand and was ALREADY expanding in season2/3 where all the other terrans were 1 basing...
this guy obviously does not watch the GSL or he's seriously uninformed
I have seen almost the entirely of GSL. I have missed a few games here and there but 99% of GSL I have seen. I call him a gimmicky abusive 1 baser not because everything he does is a gimmicky abusive 1 base play but because he does many gimmicky strategies, many abusive strategies, and many 1 base strategies. He can play a straight up game just fine, that just makes it more annoying when he does such a high rate of really lame builds.
He is famous for mass marine vs banes. This is the definition of a gimmicky play. He is famous for base trades. For MMM vs zerg and vs terran(both gimmicky). He does stuff like double reactored hellions, or 2port banshee a lot. He was very well known for 2 rax with scv pull. He does the 1/1/1 quite a lot. I can go on all day with this.
On October 02 2011 18:36 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: YES!!!!!!!! MKP's first GSL victory after 3 second places!! BEAUTIFUL!!
this is not a GSL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he would never win one, trust me one that. Not like i hate him or something, it just that marineking will never win a major league, ever
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
HAHAHAHA saying that MLG is on the level of GSL code S is a bit ridiculous. MLG is not even close to the level of GSL level play. A lot of the MLG pool wouldn't even qualify for Code A.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
I agree completely. I feel like I'm in bizarro world where this boring gimmicky abusive 1 baser has a huge fan base. I feel confident in saying if mkp played the way he plays now(now being since the earl seasons where he got popular with marine splits) people would hate him.
I have seen as 90+% of his games in tournaments, I don't see to see more of his play to know what he does very detailed. I hate it. I hate everything about his play.
This guy gets it.
People can get so defensive when they see 'BW' mentioned in a SC2 thread!
Like Damon Hill said, after you've been driving Formula1 cars for a living, everything else is kind of sluggish.
Raises an interesting point though, if MKP came into CodeS this season, would anyone bat an eyelid? Just another Terran with 'good micro'.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
I agree completely. I feel like I'm in bizarro world where this boring gimmicky abusive 1 baser has a huge fan base. I feel confident in saying if mkp played the way he plays now(now being since the earl seasons where he got popular with marine splits) people would hate him.
you should not even reply to some of these people.
a dude claiming that MKP is a "gimmicky abusive 1 baser" when he basically popularized the 1 rax expand and was ALREADY expanding in season2/3 where all the other terrans were 1 basing...
this guy obviously does not watch the GSL or he's seriously uninformed
I have seen almost the entirely of GSL. I have missed a few games here and there but 99% of GSL I have seen. I call him a gimmicky abusive 1 baser not because everything he does is a gimmicky abusive 1 base play but because he does many gimmicky strategies, many abusive strategies, and many 1 base strategies. He can play a straight up game just fine, that just makes it more annoying when he does such a high rate of really lame builds.
He is famous for mass marine vs banes. This is the definition of a gimmicky play. He is famous for base trades. For MMM vs zerg and vs terran(both gimmicky). He does stuff like double reactored hellions, or 2port banshee a lot. He was very well known for 2 rax with scv pull. He does the 1/1/1 quite a lot. I can go on all day with this.
Nice post, good summary. I understand you: it's really painful to watch someone you don't like no matter how he plays and what strategy he uses.
On October 02 2011 18:36 noddy wrote: Maghetti cries about MarineKing in every thread he plays in by the way, just look at the GSTL semi final thread. Not sure why people still bother.
I do because I am still not satisfied with the answers of his fans. I want to understand what people see in his play that makes them enjoy his games. I literally do not get it at all. It is either pointing to stuff he did many many GSLs ago or trying to deny that he does a lot of 1 basing, a lot of gimmicky attacks, etc.
On October 02 2011 18:30 Mioraka wrote: I think after the change, terminus is quickly becoming the least favourite map for Zergs.........I think it's actually very imbalanced the way it is right now.
Agreed, it feels like a bigger Delta Quadrant with an easy contain instead of cliff-sieging bullshit. Rocks at the 3rd are simply terrible for Zerg, and somewhat bad for protoss. They do nothing for terran since they basically get an additional 2 minutes to kill the rocks, and they have units anyway. The backdoor at the 3rd was also advantageous for Zerg to setup flanks and backstabs.
I think these changes were planned when the general concensus was that big maps == zerg favored, but that thinking proved to be erroneous. The advantage simply goes from Terran to Protoss as the size increases.
On October 02 2011 18:36 noddy wrote: Maghetti cries about MarineKing in every thread he plays in by the way, just look at the GSTL semi final thread. Not sure why people still bother.
I do because I am still not satisfied with the answers of his fans. I want to understand what people see in his play that makes them enjoy his games. I literally do not get it at all. It is either pointing to stuff he did many many GSLs ago or trying to deny that he does a lot of 1 basing, a lot of gimmicky attacks, etc.
On October 02 2011 18:24 HaXXspetten wrote: Wow MKP actually won a tournament? Anyone got a full live report of what happened? (Don't feel like reading through 23 pages -.-)
game 1:
MKP tries stim/shield +1 timing. DRG crushes it and picks him apart till gg
game 2:
MKP goes 2 rax double expo double ebay. DRG doesn't do anything to it, MKP gets to about 170 sup and 3-3. pushes and wins.
game 3:
MKP goes double reactor hellions, DRG just dies.
game 4:
MKP goes marines + blueflame. DRG just dies.
game 5:
MKP goes mass redflame hellions + follow up banshee. DRG just dies
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
I agree completely. I feel like I'm in bizarro world where this boring gimmicky abusive 1 baser has a huge fan base. I feel confident in saying if mkp played the way he plays now(now being since the earl seasons where he got popular with marine splits) people would hate him.
you should not even reply to some of these people.
a dude claiming that MKP is a "gimmicky abusive 1 baser" when he basically popularized the 1 rax expand and was ALREADY expanding in season2/3 where all the other terrans were 1 basing...
this guy obviously does not watch the GSL or he's seriously uninformed
I have seen almost the entirely of GSL. I have missed a few games here and there but 99% of GSL I have seen. I call him a gimmicky abusive 1 baser not because everything he does is a gimmicky abusive 1 base play but because he does many gimmicky strategies, many abusive strategies, and many 1 base strategies. He can play a straight up game just fine, that just makes it more annoying when he does such a high rate of really lame builds.
He is famous for mass marine vs banes. This is the definition of a gimmicky play. He is famous for base trades. For MMM vs zerg and vs terran(both gimmicky). He does stuff like double reactored hellions, or 2port banshee a lot. He was very well known for 2 rax with scv pull. He does the 1/1/1 quite a lot. I can go on all day with this.
ummm i dont get what you mean by gimmicky.... srsly. are you trolling? o.O
On October 02 2011 18:36 noddy wrote: Maghetti cries about MarineKing in every thread he plays in by the way, just look at the GSTL semi final thread. Not sure why people still bother.
I do because I am still not satisfied with the answers of his fans. I want to understand what people see in his play that makes them enjoy his games. I literally do not get it at all. It is either pointing to stuff he did many many GSLs ago or trying to deny that he does a lot of 1 basing, a lot of gimmicky attacks, etc.
It's fine that you don't get it. You however shouldn't bash him in every single thread refusing to admit that he has great achievements and he did good things to get there.
There are a lot of players I don't like but I don't bitch about them in every LR thread when they play. Keep it to yourself.
On October 02 2011 18:36 noddy wrote: Maghetti cries about MarineKing in every thread he plays in by the way, just look at the GSTL semi final thread. Not sure why people still bother.
I do because I am still not satisfied with the answers of his fans. I want to understand what people see in his play that makes them enjoy his games. I literally do not get it at all. It is either pointing to stuff he did many many GSLs ago or trying to deny that he does a lot of 1 basing, a lot of gimmicky attacks, etc.
It's fine that you don't get it. You however shouldn't bash him in every single thread refusing to admit that he has great achievements and he did good things to get there.
There are a lot of players I don't like but I don't bitch about them in every LR thread when they play. Keep it to yourself.
Just don't listen... He is just one of the: "If you don't build 20tanks you're not playing standard terran" - guys.
On October 02 2011 18:36 noddy wrote: Maghetti cries about MarineKing in every thread he plays in by the way, just look at the GSTL semi final thread. Not sure why people still bother.
I do because I am still not satisfied with the answers of his fans. I want to understand what people see in his play that makes them enjoy his games. I literally do not get it at all. It is either pointing to stuff he did many many GSLs ago or trying to deny that he does a lot of 1 basing, a lot of gimmicky attacks, etc.
Don't feed the troll. The only 1 base marineking does is against protoss (1/1/1). If I recall correctly, players like Bomber, Puma, MvP also are quite keen on doing 1 base attacks against protoss. Basically every code S terran has a variation of that 1 base build in their arsenal against protoss. Otherwise 1 base builds are basically giving the other player a free win in TvT and TvZ. Marineking popularized 1 rax expand in TvP and 2 rax into Expo in TvZ. Not sure how those are cheesy 1 base builds.
On October 02 2011 18:21 jjhchsc2 wrote: wow congratz MKP!!!! CHYEA cant believe he beat drg in dual sight, taldarim and belshir.
How were the games?
The games were excellent. Now if mkp only fixes his tvt, which is mainly caused by his refusal to go mech, he'd be back to being a boss in no time! His tvz and tvp and still good, but his tvt is still awful right now. I don't know how many times he needs to lose bio vs mech before he realizes it doesn't work and goes mech himself. Hopefully one day he will learn.
He destroyed MMA to get to the finals - MKP's tvt is just fine.
Yes, he destroyed MMA in this tourney. However, that was just one series. Plus as mkp's number 1 fanboy, I can tell you his tvt is not fine and is one of the main reasons for his slump. He's been losing tvt left and right for a while now and mostly because he keeps going bio against mech and losing like he did against clide. His refusal to go mech tvt is why he loses a lot of tvt. You just don't win going bio vs mech when the meching player plays mech well.
Losing to ryung/bomber dropped him to 3rd in his code s group too. The first time he dropped to code a and made up/down, he went 1-3 in group and lost to 3Ts, ryung, happy and dream. This past up/down when he made it, he only had 1 terran in his group taeja and he lost to him.
I agree with you on most of the things you said except that I am MKP's Nr.1 Fanboy.
I agree with everything he said and everything you said too, except that I am his n1 fanboy xD
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
I agree completely. I feel like I'm in bizarro world where this boring gimmicky abusive 1 baser has a huge fan base. I feel confident in saying if mkp played the way he plays now(now being since the earl seasons where he got popular with marine splits) people would hate him.
I have seen as 90+% of his games in tournaments, I don't see to see more of his play to know what he does very detailed. I hate it. I hate everything about his play.
This guy gets it.
People can get so defensive when they see 'BW' mentioned in a SC2 thread!
Like Damon Hill said, after you've been driving Formula1 cars for a living, everything else is kind of sluggish.
Raises an interesting point though, if MKP came into CodeS this season, would anyone bat an eyelid? Just another Terran.
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
This format is the same as MLG. People didn't get time to prepare for their opponents, therefore they didn't play as well as they would usually. They still played standard.
That's not quite it either. I've seen better in the gstl (no prep either), especially from Drg (he's king there). It obviously isn't live, but was it even confirmed as to what the time span for this tournament was, or are you assuming they didn't have much prep? As for standard...
Nestea playing aggressive instead of defensive as usual and quite sloppily? Losira doing half-assed baneling busts against MKP instead of getting further ahead when he had the clear upper-hand then dying to simple bunker pressure in the next game? DRG rolls MVP rather easily, but can't seem to stand up to a few hellions to the point that he gets 3-1'd? I don't think so.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
No one said marines were OP before he made them OP. Most people were complaining about marauders.
He changed the TvZ matchup completely.
He popularized the 2 rax build.
He got 2nd place 4 times in GSL.
A lot of people said marines were good before him, they have insane dps and efficency, and how did he change TvZ ? Dont terran do marine/tank/medivacs anymore ?
Before MKP vs Kyrix, NO ONE knew that splitting marines against Banelings was effective.
No, MVP was the first to split marines, but MKP just made it really famous through that series and being only marine heavy.
No,oGs.TheSTC was the first to split marines AND simultaneous drops->then the rest copied.
On October 02 2011 18:21 jjhchsc2 wrote: wow congratz MKP!!!! CHYEA cant believe he beat drg in dual sight, taldarim and belshir.
How were the games?
The games were excellent. Now if mkp only fixes his tvt, which is mainly caused by his refusal to go mech, he'd be back to being a boss in no time! His tvz and tvp and still good, but his tvt is still awful right now. I don't know how many times he needs to lose bio vs mech before he realizes it doesn't work and goes mech himself. Hopefully one day he will learn.
He destroyed MMA to get to the finals - MKP's tvt is just fine.
Yes, he destroyed MMA in this tourney. However, that was just one series. Plus as mkp's number 1 fanboy, I can tell you his tvt is not fine and is one of the main reasons for his slump. He's been losing tvt left and right for a while now and mostly because he keeps going bio against mech and losing like he did against clide. His refusal to go mech tvt is why he loses a lot of tvt. You just don't win going bio vs mech when the meching player plays mech well.
Losing to ryung/bomber dropped him to 3rd in his code s group too. The first time he dropped to code a and made up/down, he went 1-3 in group and lost to 3Ts, ryung, happy and dream. This past up/down when he made it, he only had 1 terran in his group taeja and he lost to him.
I agree with you on most of the things you said except that I am MKP's Nr.1 Fanboy.
I agree with everything he said and everything you said too, except that I am his n1 fanboy xD
i agree wtih everything he said, everything he said and everything you said too, except that i am his ninfinity fanboy..........oh wait..
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
This format is the same as MLG. People didn't get time to prepare for their opponents, therefore they didn't play as well as they would usually. They still played standard.
That's not quite it either. I've seen better in the gstl (no prep either), especially from Drg (he's king there). It obviously isn't live, but was it even confirmed as to what the time span for this tournament was, or are you assuming they didn't have much prep? As for standard...
Nestea playing aggressive instead of defensive as usual and quite sloppily? Losira doing half-assed baneling busts against MKP instead of getting further ahead when he had the clear upper-hand then dying to simple bunker pressure in the next game? DRG rolls MVP rather easily, but can't seem to stand up to a few hellions to the point that he gets 3-1'd? I don't think so.
Nestea plays aggressive in Code S games as well? Not all of them, but he does. Losira is awful at ZvT, he always wastes like 200 lings on nothing so it's not that surprising.
Honestly, they might nothave played their best but they didn't go into a tournament with prize money to show their fans that they are awful, unmotivated players.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
I agree completely. I feel like I'm in bizarro world where this boring gimmicky abusive 1 baser has a huge fan base. I feel confident in saying if mkp played the way he plays now(now being since the earl seasons where he got popular with marine splits) people would hate him.
you should not even reply to some of these people.
a dude claiming that MKP is a "gimmicky abusive 1 baser" when he basically popularized the 1 rax expand and was ALREADY expanding in season2/3 where all the other terrans were 1 basing...
this guy obviously does not watch the GSL or he's seriously uninformed
I have seen almost the entirely of GSL. I have missed a few games here and there but 99% of GSL I have seen. I call him a gimmicky abusive 1 baser not because everything he does is a gimmicky abusive 1 base play but because he does many gimmicky strategies, many abusive strategies, and many 1 base strategies. He can play a straight up game just fine, that just makes it more annoying when he does such a high rate of really lame builds.
He is famous for mass marine vs banes. This is the definition of a gimmicky play. He is famous for base trades. For MMM vs zerg and vs terran(both gimmicky). He does stuff like double reactored hellions, or 2port banshee a lot. He was very well known for 2 rax with scv pull. He does the 1/1/1 quite a lot. I can go on all day with this.
ummm i dont get what you mean by gimmicky.... srsly. are you trolling? o.O
Gimmicky is hard to define. Basically, something that relys of your opponent to make a mistake but isn't always cheese. Like 2 port banshee would be gimmicky because if it is scouted it losses. Building a army of all marines vs banes would be gimmicky. Basically stuff that isn't reliable over many games. You could win a game with a endless rally of marines, but no meta game will ever develop with that being standard because it doesn't work if they see it coming. You get me?
On October 02 2011 18:21 Eishi_Ki wrote: Heh, yeah, I did watch GSL Season 2, thanks to the members of Club 2010 for reminding me about that. Yes, I did watch MKP vs Kyrix (live) and yes, I enjoyed the game, did it startle me though? No, no it didn't (maybe experience of BW talking).
Was that series entertaining? I guess some people did. I did not. DRG made mistakes certainly but I'd prefer to watch a match where gimmick, abusive strategies were not utilised.
Well done MKP. Commentators were not interested, nor am I.
Time for bed.
"I watched the game, but I dont understand why it changed the entire TvZ matchup because I played BW, a better game!"
Sick argument there bro, good job mixing up opinions from facts.
I'm confused, where is my mix up of opinions and facts?
I implied BW was more difficult to micro in and my experience made me awe at some of the things the pros did. I did not imply BW is a better game, I believe you did that.
And my point wasn't an opinion, it's a fact. Can Marines be stutter stepped in BW? No. Do Mutas auto stack in BW? No. Do Zerglings surround targets automatically? No. Do Dragoons walk in a straight line where you tell them? No.
If you still dont believe me, I implore you to fire up BW and try cloning Scourge appropriately.
What I was implying was valid to my point, yours was not.
If you require further examples or video evidence of my claims, drop me a PM
Apologies for pseudo derailing the thread, that will be the last of it.
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
This format is the same as MLG. People didn't get time to prepare for their opponents, therefore they didn't play as well as they would usually. They still played standard.
That's not quite it either. I've seen better in the gstl (no prep either), especially from Drg (he's king there). It obviously isn't live, but was it even confirmed as to what the time span for this tournament was, or are you assuming they didn't have much prep? As for standard...
Nestea playing aggressive instead of defensive as usual and quite sloppily? Losira doing half-assed baneling busts against MKP instead of getting further ahead when he had the clear upper-hand then dying to simple bunker pressure in the next game? DRG rolls MVP rather easily, but can't seem to stand up to a few hellions to the point that he gets 3-1'd? I don't think so.
Nestea plays aggressive in Code S games as well? Not all of them, but he does. Losira is awful at ZvT, he always wastes like 200 lings on nothing so it's not that surprising.
Honestly, they might nothave played their best but they didn't go into a tournament with prize money to show their fans that they are awful, unmotivated players.
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
HAHAHAHA saying that MLG is on the level of GSL code S is a bit ridiculous. MLG is not even close to the level of GSL level play. A lot of the MLG pool wouldn't even qualify for Code A.
Learn to read, I'm talking about how the Koreans play while at MLG. MVP, Bomber, DRG, MMA, Losira. They play up to their level, of course it's usually only seen when they go up against each other as the foreigners can't push them to their limits. In some cases the games are better from them. Coca was thought to suck terribly at Zvt back then...owned puma and played good against bomber until the later stages of their games. Boxer did very nicely at Anaheim. Nada looked awesome as well, especially the win against Puma. Rain actually looked good for once at Anaheim.
On October 02 2011 18:56 KimJongChill wrote: Wow, I did not expect these results at all. This is like the universe is folding in on itself. MKP to win GSL code S ???
Yellow was the King of Special Events... He almost always won them when he was at his peak... But the regular leagues, that's a different story as we all know.
Maybe MKP really is the Kong of SC2. Yellow's true heir.
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
This format is the same as MLG. People didn't get time to prepare for their opponents, therefore they didn't play as well as they would usually. They still played standard.
That's not quite it either. I've seen better in the gstl (no prep either), especially from Drg (he's king there). It obviously isn't live, but was it even confirmed as to what the time span for this tournament was, or are you assuming they didn't have much prep? As for standard...
Nestea playing aggressive instead of defensive as usual and quite sloppily? Losira doing half-assed baneling busts against MKP instead of getting further ahead when he had the clear upper-hand then dying to simple bunker pressure in the next game? DRG rolls MVP rather easily, but can't seem to stand up to a few hellions to the point that he gets 3-1'd? I don't think so.
Nestea plays aggressive in Code S games as well? Not all of them, but he does. Losira is awful at ZvT, he always wastes like 200 lings on nothing so it's not that surprising.
Honestly, they might nothave played their best but they didn't go into a tournament with prize money to show their fans that they are awful, unmotivated players.
They can, they have GSL to prepare for
MMA's next match is TvT so he has been practicing TvT. DRG's next match is ZvT, so he has been practicing ZvT.
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
HAHAHAHA saying that MLG is on the level of GSL code S is a bit ridiculous. MLG is not even close to the level of GSL level play. A lot of the MLG pool wouldn't even qualify for Code A.
Learn to read, I'm talking about how the Koreans play while at MLG. MVP, Bomber, DRG, MMA, Losira. They play up to their level, of course it's usually only seen when they go up against each other as the foreigners can't push them to their limits. In some cases the games are better from them. Coca was thought to suck terribly at Zvt back then...owned puma and played good against bomber until the later stages of their games. Boxer did very nicely at Anaheim. Nada looked awesome as well, especially the win against Puma. Rain actually looked good for once at Anaheim.
The Koreans are forced to play better consistently in GSL than they do at MLG to win. They also have to refine their play MUCH MUCH more in GSL (which means a higher level of play if you don't follow that logic). No, CoCa was considered amazing at TvZ ever since he switched to SlayerS. It wasn't because of the big crowd lmfao. You should think before you post things like that.
I felt his play was very strong and good expect for the first game (missed it) and the last game (what was DRG doing?)
The two fact reactor build was really smart and abused the assumptions of DRG. His macro mode in game two looked air tight and he radiated cleverness throughout the series.
I never understood why putting on some pressure while taking a new base like in the last game gets frowned upon. I do this all the time and in broodwar I did it even more. Yes I agree that the investment is heavier in some of these sc2 builds but with many builds you are pretty much guaranteed a decent roi. For example 2 rax bunker pressure tvz on some maps (not sure about the big ones esp now with patch) has huge potential for good roi and if you do it right you when you "fail" you have a well developed base at home anyways.
It not like he's cutting scv and bringing 10 of them with him every game
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
This format is the same as MLG. People didn't get time to prepare for their opponents, therefore they didn't play as well as they would usually. They still played standard.
That's not quite it either. I've seen better in the gstl (no prep either), especially from Drg (he's king there). It obviously isn't live, but was it even confirmed as to what the time span for this tournament was, or are you assuming they didn't have much prep? As for standard...
Nestea playing aggressive instead of defensive as usual and quite sloppily? Losira doing half-assed baneling busts against MKP instead of getting further ahead when he had the clear upper-hand then dying to simple bunker pressure in the next game? DRG rolls MVP rather easily, but can't seem to stand up to a few hellions to the point that he gets 3-1'd? I don't think so.
Bro, ever thought about getting a job at FBI? They need you, and you can do it.
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
This format is the same as MLG. People didn't get time to prepare for their opponents, therefore they didn't play as well as they would usually. They still played standard.
That's not quite it either. I've seen better in the gstl (no prep either), especially from Drg (he's king there). It obviously isn't live, but was it even confirmed as to what the time span for this tournament was, or are you assuming they didn't have much prep? As for standard...
Nestea playing aggressive instead of defensive as usual and quite sloppily? Losira doing half-assed baneling busts against MKP instead of getting further ahead when he had the clear upper-hand then dying to simple bunker pressure in the next game? DRG rolls MVP rather easily, but can't seem to stand up to a few hellions to the point that he gets 3-1'd? I don't think so.
Nestea plays aggressive in Code S games as well? Not all of them, but he does. Losira is awful at ZvT, he always wastes like 200 lings on nothing so it's not that surprising.
Honestly, they might nothave played their best but they didn't go into a tournament with prize money to show their fans that they are awful, unmotivated players.
They can, they have GSL to prepare for
MMA's next match is TvT so he has been practicing TvT. DRG's next match is ZvT, so he has been practicing ZvT.
The fact that people are even suggesting that this tournament didn't count somehow is absolutely saddening. It's one thing to suggest that some players were not playing their best (this happens in code S GSL all the time -_- ) but to say that the players were not trying their best is idiotic.
You can hate on the builds all you want, or the players themselves, but don't call this tournament or the players out because you have this twisted perception that they don't care about the results.
Think we guys should just accept that mkp was the better player today. MKP likes to use many different strategies but all of them are very unique and it did show that he prepared for the match while DRG just kept to his same old build. MKP prepared better so he deserved the win.
I don't think Arena of Legends matters that much to any of the players, they're just playing for fun. They want to save all their strategies for GSL, where the real money is.
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
This format is the same as MLG. People didn't get time to prepare for their opponents, therefore they didn't play as well as they would usually. They still played standard.
That's not quite it either. I've seen better in the gstl (no prep either), especially from Drg (he's king there). It obviously isn't live, but was it even confirmed as to what the time span for this tournament was, or are you assuming they didn't have much prep? As for standard...
Nestea playing aggressive instead of defensive as usual and quite sloppily? Losira doing half-assed baneling busts against MKP instead of getting further ahead when he had the clear upper-hand then dying to simple bunker pressure in the next game? DRG rolls MVP rather easily, but can't seem to stand up to a few hellions to the point that he gets 3-1'd? I don't think so.
Nestea plays aggressive in Code S games as well? Not all of them, but he does. Losira is awful at ZvT, he always wastes like 200 lings on nothing so it's not that surprising.
Honestly, they might nothave played their best but they didn't go into a tournament with prize money to show their fans that they are awful, unmotivated players.
They can, they have GSL to prepare for
MMA's next match is TvT so he has been practicing TvT. DRG's next match is ZvT, so he has been practicing ZvT.
and they don''t want to show their cards yes?
DRG does the exact same thing.. every single game. He has no cards to hide. He just does it extremely well. MMA just showed his early game is beyond bad which everyone knew already.
On October 02 2011 18:36 noddy wrote: Maghetti cries about MarineKing in every thread he plays in by the way, just look at the GSTL semi final thread. Not sure why people still bother.
I do because I am still not satisfied with the answers of his fans. I want to understand what people see in his play that makes them enjoy his games. I literally do not get it at all. It is either pointing to stuff he did many many GSLs ago or trying to deny that he does a lot of 1 basing, a lot of gimmicky attacks, etc.
Don't feed the troll. The only 1 base marineking does is against protoss (1/1/1). If I recall correctly, players like Bomber, Puma, MvP also are quite keen on doing 1 base attacks against protoss. Basically every code S terran has a variation of that 1 base build in their arsenal against protoss. Otherwise 1 base builds are basically giving the other player a free win in TvT and TvZ. Marineking popularized 1 rax expand in TvP and 2 rax into Expo in TvZ. Not sure how those are cheesy 1 base builds.
Yeah. As much as I do not like Terrans, you can't deny the MKP's footprint in modern TvZ. 1 rax expand and 2 rax is de facto standard TvZ build to date, ever since showcased by MKP in GSL 2. If anything watch TvZ in Season 1 and Season 2. Way more "gimicky" plays that involved reapers, banshes, thors, etc. (mostly 1 base, mind you) There was some uneasy period where everyone did marine/scv all-in's in GSL3, but since then the TvZ has settled to the current style and it's the most "standard" match up compared to TvP or PvZ. MKP single handedly established modern TvZ style.
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
This format is the same as MLG. People didn't get time to prepare for their opponents, therefore they didn't play as well as they would usually. They still played standard.
That's not quite it either. I've seen better in the gstl (no prep either), especially from Drg (he's king there). It obviously isn't live, but was it even confirmed as to what the time span for this tournament was, or are you assuming they didn't have much prep? As for standard...
Nestea playing aggressive instead of defensive as usual and quite sloppily? Losira doing half-assed baneling busts against MKP instead of getting further ahead when he had the clear upper-hand then dying to simple bunker pressure in the next game? DRG rolls MVP rather easily, but can't seem to stand up to a few hellions to the point that he gets 3-1'd? I don't think so.
Nestea plays aggressive in Code S games as well? Not all of them, but he does. Losira is awful at ZvT, he always wastes like 200 lings on nothing so it's not that surprising.
Honestly, they might nothave played their best but they didn't go into a tournament with prize money to show their fans that they are awful, unmotivated players.
They can, they have GSL to prepare for
MMA's next match is TvT so he has been practicing TvT. DRG's next match is ZvT, so he has been practicing ZvT.
and they don''t want to show their cards yes?
DRG does the exact same thing.. every single game. He has no cards to hide. He just does it extremely well. MMA just showed his early game is beyond bad which everyone knew already.
he has already mentioned in one of his interview that he has other strategies that has not yet shown because he's afraid terran will figure his old style one day, unless he's lying, but i doubt it
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
This format is the same as MLG. People didn't get time to prepare for their opponents, therefore they didn't play as well as they would usually. They still played standard.
That's not quite it either. I've seen better in the gstl (no prep either), especially from Drg (he's king there). It obviously isn't live, but was it even confirmed as to what the time span for this tournament was, or are you assuming they didn't have much prep? As for standard...
Nestea playing aggressive instead of defensive as usual and quite sloppily? Losira doing half-assed baneling busts against MKP instead of getting further ahead when he had the clear upper-hand then dying to simple bunker pressure in the next game? DRG rolls MVP rather easily, but can't seem to stand up to a few hellions to the point that he gets 3-1'd? I don't think so.
Nestea plays aggressive in Code S games as well? Not all of them, but he does. Losira is awful at ZvT, he always wastes like 200 lings on nothing so it's not that surprising.
Honestly, they might nothave played their best but they didn't go into a tournament with prize money to show their fans that they are awful, unmotivated players.
They can, they have GSL to prepare for
MMA's next match is TvT so he has been practicing TvT. DRG's next match is ZvT, so he has been practicing ZvT.
and they don''t want to show their cards yes?
DRG does the exact same thing.. every single game. He has no cards to hide. He just does it extremely well. MMA just showed his early game is beyond bad which everyone knew already.
Yeah DRG is extremely predictable and with the exception of a few games, he almost always goes early lair into mutas every game. MKP exposed the weakness in his build and beat him this way. I don't see why people should think its gimmicky, you obviously play to your opponents weaknesses. I'm not a MKP fan and i sort of dislike him but i think he deserves credit for finding a hole in DRGs play that all the other terrans that have fallen to DRG couldn't. DRG may not have prepared for this match so much and just went with his standard build but that didn't mean MKP played badly. MKP still had to play smart to beat DRG. Don't see anyone hating TLOs gimmick strats as well.
MKP won? Meh, this tournament isn't prestigious enough to make a dent in his kong status. So I assume MKP hit timings to kill DRG? Fair enough. Why play straightup when you know you have the weaker macro game?
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
HAHAHAHA saying that MLG is on the level of GSL code S is a bit ridiculous. MLG is not even close to the level of GSL level play. A lot of the MLG pool wouldn't even qualify for Code A.
Learn to read, I'm talking about how the Koreans play while at MLG. MVP, Bomber, DRG, MMA, Losira. They play up to their level, of course it's usually only seen when they go up against each other as the foreigners can't push them to their limits. In some cases the games are better from them. Coca was thought to suck terribly at Zvt back then...owned puma and played good against bomber until the later stages of their games. Boxer did very nicely at Anaheim. Nada looked awesome as well, especially the win against Puma. Rain actually looked good for once at Anaheim.
The Koreans are forced to play better consistently in GSL than they do at MLG to win. They also have to refine their play MUCH MUCH more in GSL (which means a higher level of play if you don't follow that logic). No, CoCa was considered amazing at TvZ ever since he switched to SlayerS. It wasn't because of the big crowd lmfao. You should think before you post things like that.
Why is this so hard for you to understand. The play demonstrated at MLG, and the play demonstrated in the GSL from the koreans (at least against each other) is of similar caliber. You know what they've practiced for in the gsl, the skills they've gained may have, I don't know, come with them to MLG...?
I believe coca actually had just joined slayers around the time he went to MLG, prior to this he didn't show much of his zvt off and it was regarded as quite bad. So no.
Also, who's to say the audience didn't play a factor in their performance. Maybe, just maybe, the incentive from the fans carries more weight than the same amount of money they'd get by advancing to the ro16 by winning this small tournament.
On October 02 2011 19:19 Telcontar wrote: MKP won? Meh, this tournament isn't prestigious enough to make a dent in his kong status. So I assume MKP hit timings to kill DRG? Fair enough. Why play straightup when you know you have the weaker macro game?
Another tool.
MarineKing's macro is perfectly fine.
He raped DRG in a macro game in the second game by the way.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
I agree completely. I feel like I'm in bizarro world where this boring gimmicky abusive 1 baser has a huge fan base. I feel confident in saying if mkp played the way he plays now(now being since the earl seasons where he got popular with marine splits) people would hate him.
you should not even reply to some of these people.
a dude claiming that MKP is a "gimmicky abusive 1 baser" when he basically popularized the 1 rax expand and was ALREADY expanding in season2/3 where all the other terrans were 1 basing...
this guy obviously does not watch the GSL or he's seriously uninformed
I have seen almost the entirely of GSL. I have missed a few games here and there but 99% of GSL I have seen. I call him a gimmicky abusive 1 baser not because everything he does is a gimmicky abusive 1 base play but because he does many gimmicky strategies, many abusive strategies, and many 1 base strategies. He can play a straight up game just fine, that just makes it more annoying when he does such a high rate of really lame builds.
He is famous for mass marine vs banes. This is the definition of a gimmicky play. He is famous for base trades. For MMM vs zerg and vs terran(both gimmicky). He does stuff like double reactored hellions, or 2port banshee a lot. He was very well known for 2 rax with scv pull. He does the 1/1/1 quite a lot. I can go on all day with this.
ummm i dont get what you mean by gimmicky.... srsly. are you trolling? o.O
Gimmicky is hard to define. Basically, something that relys of your opponent to make a mistake but isn't always cheese. Like 2 port banshee would be gimmicky because if it is scouted it losses. Building a army of all marines vs banes would be gimmicky. Basically stuff that isn't reliable over many games. You could win a game with a endless rally of marines, but no meta game will ever develop with that being standard because it doesn't work if they see it coming. You get me?
Mass marines vs banelings is gimmicky? If you split perfect, and do perfect scoot and shoot micro you won't even lose a single marine! So the only restriction is the Terran players apm, a quite big one. Still if you feel confident enough to get at least in the costefficient zone with marines vs banes, I don't see why someone like marineking shouldn't counter banes with marines.
On October 02 2011 18:16 Kogutz wrote: mkp fanboys gonna explode from insane amount of love. Not even close to entretained with those matches. The same stuff, over and over, since the 3rd game.
why would he change when its working? Why didnt DRG make roches? We will never know.
I really don't understand it. DRG has been having tons of success in TvZ with his early roach pressure builds, yet he chooses not to do a single one against MKP despite his obvious predeliction towards hellions. Just a weird, weird game.
Congrats to MKP, but this final was pretty silly in typical GSL fashion.
Yeah, everyone who watches DRG lately knows that he is going roach early a lot against terran... these games were weird from him :/
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
HAHAHAHA saying that MLG is on the level of GSL code S is a bit ridiculous. MLG is not even close to the level of GSL level play. A lot of the MLG pool wouldn't even qualify for Code A.
Learn to read, I'm talking about how the Koreans play while at MLG. MVP, Bomber, DRG, MMA, Losira. They play up to their level, of course it's usually only seen when they go up against each other as the foreigners can't push them to their limits. In some cases the games are better from them. Coca was thought to suck terribly at Zvt back then...owned puma and played good against bomber until the later stages of their games. Boxer did very nicely at Anaheim. Nada looked awesome as well, especially the win against Puma. Rain actually looked good for once at Anaheim.
The Koreans are forced to play better consistently in GSL than they do at MLG to win. They also have to refine their play MUCH MUCH more in GSL (which means a higher level of play if you don't follow that logic). No, CoCa was considered amazing at TvZ ever since he switched to SlayerS. It wasn't because of the big crowd lmfao. You should think before you post things like that.
Why is this so hard for you to understand. The play demonstrated at MLG, and the play demonstrated in the GSL from the koreans (at least against each other) is of similar caliber. You know what they've practiced for in the gsl, the skills they've gained may have, I don't know, come with them to MLG...?
I believe coca actually had just joined slayers around the time he went to MLG, prior to this he didn't show much of his zvt off and it was regarded as quite bad. So no.
Also, who's to say the audience didn't play a factor in their performance. Maybe, just maybe, the incentive from the fans carries more weight than the same amount of money they'd get by advancing to the ro16 by winning this small tournament.
No it's not. The same Korean players demonstrate better play at GSL. They have time to prepare / refine their play, and are not suffering from jet lag or lag (which has been a huge problem at every single MLG at one point or another). This makes the level of play higher. Seriously, are you even reading my posts? So you're basically saying - hey they have been practicing so the level of play must be similar... then right after you shit all over AoL because it's not a legit tournament? Forget reading my posts - are you even reading your own posts before you post them?? Doesn't sound like it.
Also, CoCa was considered quite a good ZvT player even when he was on Zenex. In fact him and Puzzle usually alternated as the ACE for their team, because both of them showed well rounded play against terran. His ZvT obviously got better once he switched to SlayerS, but I don't know what you're talking about when you said his ZvT was bad before. Anyways, I suggest you read what you actually write. Even if they only cared about pleasing the fans (and.... not playing... well?), then AoL would still provide a proper incentive. It's a public tournament that thousands of people around the world watch. Hell, the VoDs are up on GOM just like any GSL match.
On October 02 2011 19:19 Telcontar wrote: MKP won? Meh, this tournament isn't prestigious enough to make a dent in his kong status. So I assume MKP hit timings to kill DRG? Fair enough. Why play straightup when you know you have the weaker macro game?
Another tool.
MarineKing's macro is perfectly fine.
He raped DRG in a macro game in the second game by the way.
Yeah i think MKP has great mechanics, both micro/macro. What kills him is his decision making. He tends to be too aggressive, and that sucks in T v T which explains his record sometimes.
On October 02 2011 18:56 KimJongChill wrote: Wow, I did not expect these results at all. This is like the universe is folding in on itself. MKP to win GSL code S ???
20 Terrans are in Code S, He has no chance of winning one
On October 02 2011 18:56 KimJongChill wrote: Wow, I did not expect these results at all. This is like the universe is folding in on itself. MKP to win GSL code S ???
20 Terrans are in Code S, He has no chance of winning one
Lol hes already knocked out of this seasons code S. To be fair, i think the level in code S is so high, any player can go on to the semi finals. Everyone in code S is so good and i think the only difference is their preparation and such.
On October 02 2011 18:56 KimJongChill wrote: Wow, I did not expect these results at all. This is like the universe is folding in on itself. MKP to win GSL code S ???
20 Terrans are in Code S, He has no chance of winning one
Lol hes already knocked out of this seasons code S. To be fair, i think the level in code S is so high, any player can go on to the semi finals. Everyone in code S is so good and i think the only difference is their preparation and such.
Also he played his group before the BFH nerf to help his TvT though he is lucky that Puzzle fumbled a 4 gate or he would be in up/downs right now.
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
HAHAHAHA saying that MLG is on the level of GSL code S is a bit ridiculous. MLG is not even close to the level of GSL level play. A lot of the MLG pool wouldn't even qualify for Code A.
Learn to read, I'm talking about how the Koreans play while at MLG. MVP, Bomber, DRG, MMA, Losira. They play up to their level, of course it's usually only seen when they go up against each other as the foreigners can't push them to their limits. In some cases the games are better from them. Coca was thought to suck terribly at Zvt back then...owned puma and played good against bomber until the later stages of their games. Boxer did very nicely at Anaheim. Nada looked awesome as well, especially the win against Puma. Rain actually looked good for once at Anaheim.
The Koreans are forced to play better consistently in GSL than they do at MLG to win. They also have to refine their play MUCH MUCH more in GSL (which means a higher level of play if you don't follow that logic). No, CoCa was considered amazing at TvZ ever since he switched to SlayerS. It wasn't because of the big crowd lmfao. You should think before you post things like that.
Why is this so hard for you to understand. The play demonstrated at MLG, and the play demonstrated in the GSL from the koreans (at least against each other) is of similar caliber. You know what they've practiced for in the gsl, the skills they've gained may have, I don't know, come with them to MLG...?
I believe coca actually had just joined slayers around the time he went to MLG, prior to this he didn't show much of his zvt off and it was regarded as quite bad. So no.
Also, who's to say the audience didn't play a factor in their performance. Maybe, just maybe, the incentive from the fans carries more weight than the same amount of money they'd get by advancing to the ro16 by winning this small tournament.
No it's not. The same Korean players demonstrate better play at GSL. They have time to prepare / refine their play, and are not suffering from jet lag or lag (which has been a huge problem at every single MLG at one point or another). This makes the level of play higher. Seriously, are you even reading my posts? So you're basically saying - hey they have been practicing so the level of play must be similar... then right after you shit all over AoL because it's not a legit tournament? Forget reading my posts - are you even reading your own posts before you post them?? Doesn't sound like it.
Also, CoCa was considered quite a good ZvT player even when he was on Zenex. In fact him and Puzzle usually alternated as the ACE for their team, because both of them showed well rounded play against terran. His ZvT obviously got better once he switched to SlayerS, but I don't know what you're talking about when you said his ZvT was bad before. Anyways, I suggest you read what you actually write. Even if they only cared about pleasing the fans (and.... not playing... well?), then AoL would still provide a proper incentive. It's a public tournament that thousands of people around the world watch. Hell, the VoDs are up on GOM just like any GSL match.
Aside from Columbus I don't recall anyone pulling the jet lag card. You need to work on your reading comprehension. I'm saying what is actually displayed when these competitors compete at MLG and at the GSL is similar. What was witnessed in the AoL is not, so much so that it's rather unusual. Of course the practice could have carried over into the AoL, but did the players actually follow through with play that reflects this? Ask yourself. At MLG, do the players show macro, micro, decision making and general style that matches up with their GSL counterparts? Yes. Did they really do that here in AoL? Not really. It's really as simple as that.
Boxer played better than I've seen him in a long time at the gsl while at Anaheim. People questioned Bomber's zvt? He 2-0'd Drg convincingly and I believe he 4-0'd coca while at Raleigh. Moon actually played better than he ever did in the gsl. Again, Rain, some of the best I've seen from him.
Coca's ZvT win rate is currently less than 50% including his recent turnaround games. Explain how his ZvT was considered good. Many people thought he wouldn't get out of his recent gsl group.
Having fans in front of your cheering, and chanting your name, watching you outside the booth, has got to be different than not seeing them at all. Hell, I recall numerous Koreans saying they wanted to return to MLG because of the crowds. That they didn't have this sort of recognition in Korea. The recognition they might get from a few vids in a small online(?) tournament that may never get back to them and what they might get from a large crowd of hundreds at a lan after walking out victorious from a booth to a roar of cheers and people chanting your name has got to be more incentive. Think a little.
On October 02 2011 18:56 KimJongChill wrote: Wow, I did not expect these results at all. This is like the universe is folding in on itself. MKP to win GSL code S ???
20 Terrans are in Code S, He has no chance of winning one
Lol hes already knocked out of this seasons code S. To be fair, i think the level in code S is so high, any player can go on to the semi finals. Everyone in code S is so good and i think the only difference is their preparation and such.
though he is lucky that Puzzle fumbled a 4 gate or he would be in up/downs right now.
Or he would've beat Puzzle in a straight up game since his TvP his fine.
On October 02 2011 19:19 Telcontar wrote: MKP won? Meh, this tournament isn't prestigious enough to make a dent in his kong status. So I assume MKP hit timings to kill DRG? Fair enough. Why play straightup when you know you have the weaker macro game?
Another tool.
MarineKing's macro is perfectly fine.
He raped DRG in a macro game in the second game by the way.
I guess it's hard to gauge someone's ability in an area when you see so little of it. Most of MKP's 'macro game' wins have been because he crippled his opponents with timings and couldn't finish things then and there. I'm not saying that kind of playstyle is particularly bad or illegitimate, but it does make him a one-dimensional player. The reason he hit a slump a few months back is because people started figuring out his gimmicks. He tried to play a bit more standard, but that wasn't working out too well for him. Then he switched back to his usual style and it's been paying off lately. You have to give him some props for coming up with new timings, but that still doesn't mean he's not a one-trick pony. I guess I'm just disappointed that someone like MKP can have that kind of success in the game, playing the same way again and again for almost a year. That or I'm just disappointed with Blizzard for making a game that makes it possible.
On October 02 2011 19:19 Telcontar wrote: MKP won? Meh, this tournament isn't prestigious enough to make a dent in his kong status. So I assume MKP hit timings to kill DRG? Fair enough. Why play straightup when you know you have the weaker macro game?
Hold on a second. Did you just mock MKP based on games you didn't see? Impressive.
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
HAHAHAHA saying that MLG is on the level of GSL code S is a bit ridiculous. MLG is not even close to the level of GSL level play. A lot of the MLG pool wouldn't even qualify for Code A.
Learn to read, I'm talking about how the Koreans play while at MLG. MVP, Bomber, DRG, MMA, Losira. They play up to their level, of course it's usually only seen when they go up against each other as the foreigners can't push them to their limits. In some cases the games are better from them. Coca was thought to suck terribly at Zvt back then...owned puma and played good against bomber until the later stages of their games. Boxer did very nicely at Anaheim. Nada looked awesome as well, especially the win against Puma. Rain actually looked good for once at Anaheim.
The Koreans are forced to play better consistently in GSL than they do at MLG to win. They also have to refine their play MUCH MUCH more in GSL (which means a higher level of play if you don't follow that logic). No, CoCa was considered amazing at TvZ ever since he switched to SlayerS. It wasn't because of the big crowd lmfao. You should think before you post things like that.
Why is this so hard for you to understand. The play demonstrated at MLG, and the play demonstrated in the GSL from the koreans (at least against each other) is of similar caliber. You know what they've practiced for in the gsl, the skills they've gained may have, I don't know, come with them to MLG...?
I believe coca actually had just joined slayers around the time he went to MLG, prior to this he didn't show much of his zvt off and it was regarded as quite bad. So no.
Also, who's to say the audience didn't play a factor in their performance. Maybe, just maybe, the incentive from the fans carries more weight than the same amount of money they'd get by advancing to the ro16 by winning this small tournament.
No it's not. The same Korean players demonstrate better play at GSL. They have time to prepare / refine their play, and are not suffering from jet lag or lag (which has been a huge problem at every single MLG at one point or another). This makes the level of play higher. Seriously, are you even reading my posts? So you're basically saying - hey they have been practicing so the level of play must be similar... then right after you shit all over AoL because it's not a legit tournament? Forget reading my posts - are you even reading your own posts before you post them?? Doesn't sound like it.
Also, CoCa was considered quite a good ZvT player even when he was on Zenex. In fact him and Puzzle usually alternated as the ACE for their team, because both of them showed well rounded play against terran. His ZvT obviously got better once he switched to SlayerS, but I don't know what you're talking about when you said his ZvT was bad before. Anyways, I suggest you read what you actually write. Even if they only cared about pleasing the fans (and.... not playing... well?), then AoL would still provide a proper incentive. It's a public tournament that thousands of people around the world watch. Hell, the VoDs are up on GOM just like any GSL match.
Aside from Columbus I don't recall anyone pulling the jet lag card. You need to work on your reading comprehension. I'm saying what is actually displayed when these competitors compete at MLG and at the GSL is similar. What was witnessed in the AoL is not, so much so that it's rather unusual. Of course the practice could have carried over into the AoL, but did the players actually follow through with play that reflects this? Ask yourself. At MLG, do the players show macro, micro, decision making and general style that matches up with their GSL counterparts? Yes. Did they really do that here in AoL? Not really. It's really as simple as that.
Boxer played better than I've seen him in a long time at the gsl while at Anaheim. People questioned Bomber's zvt? He 2-0'd Drg convincingly and I believe he 4-0'd coca while at Raleigh. Moon actually played better than he ever did in the gsl. Again, Rain, some of the best I've seen from him.
Coca's ZvT win rate is currently less than 50% including his recent turnaround games. Explain how his ZvT was considered good. Many people thought he wouldn't get out of his recent gsl group.
Having fans in front of your cheering, and chanting your name, watching you outside the booth, has got to be different than not seeing them at all. Hell, I recall numerous Koreans saying they wanted to return to MLG because of the crowds. That they didn't have this sort of recognition in Korea. The recognition they might get from a few vids in a small online(?) tournament that may never get back to them and what they might get from a large crowd of hundreds at a lan after walking out victorious from a booth to a roar of cheers and people chanting your name has got to be more incentive. Think a little.
It's hard for me to take your response seriously when you think that nobody showed good decision making, macro micro, or general style.
On October 02 2011 19:19 Telcontar wrote: MKP won? Meh, this tournament isn't prestigious enough to make a dent in his kong status. So I assume MKP hit timings to kill DRG? Fair enough. Why play straightup when you know you have the weaker macro game?
Another tool.
MarineKing's macro is perfectly fine.
He raped DRG in a macro game in the second game by the way.
I guess it's hard to gauge someone's ability in an area when you see so little of it. Most of MKP's 'macro game' wins have been because he crippled his opponents with timings and couldn't finish things then and there. I'm not saying that kind of playstyle is particularly bad or illegitimate, but it does make him a one-dimensional player. The reason he hit a slump a few months back is because people started figuring out his gimmicks. He tried to play a bit more standard, but that wasn't working out too well for him. Then he switched back to his usual style and it's been paying off lately. You have to give him some props for coming up with new timings, but that still doesn't mean he's not a one-trick pony. I guess I'm just disappointed that someone like MKP can have that kind of success in the game, playing the same way again and again for almost a year. That or I'm just disappointed with Blizzard for making a game that makes it possible.
Those kind of players should always play a role in RTS games. It's not as though he's skilless, he is just stylistic.
On October 02 2011 19:19 Telcontar wrote: MKP won? Meh, this tournament isn't prestigious enough to make a dent in his kong status. So I assume MKP hit timings to kill DRG? Fair enough. Why play straightup when you know you have the weaker macro game?
Another tool.
MarineKing's macro is perfectly fine.
He raped DRG in a macro game in the second game by the way.
I guess it's hard to gauge someone's ability in an area when you see so little of it. Most of MKP's 'macro game' wins have been because he crippled his opponents with timings and couldn't finish things then and there. I'm not saying that kind of playstyle is particularly bad or illegitimate, but it does make him a one-dimensional player. The reason he hit a slump a few months back is because people started figuring out his gimmicks. He tried to play a bit more standard, but that wasn't working out too well for him. Then he switched back to his usual style and it's been paying off lately. You have to give him some props for coming up with new timings, but that still doesn't mean he's not a one-trick pony. I guess I'm just disappointed that someone like MKP can have that kind of success in the game, playing the same way again and again for almost a year. That or I'm just disappointed with Blizzard for making a game that makes it possible.
It's hard to address just how many logical fallacies are in this post.
Lol I clicked the individual spoilers, and not the overall ones. After the 2nd, I was expecting DRG's name to be bolded, same for 3rd... then 4th... then just wtf'd at 5 LOL. Congratulations on MKP for winning. Can't really say anything about improving, or degrading his win since I didn't get to watch it. And I sure as hell don't want anyone to GET@ME for making such comments. ;<
First prize here is 1500$ right? Right, MKPs winnings hover around the 80k$ mark, but DRG has hardly won much money at all. Now I don't know anything about the salary rate in MVP, but I'm gonna assume he isnt getting rich. This is money, and it'd probably be quite welcome. Along with that comes pride, and the inherent will to win all progamers should have. I don't buy that he didn't try because it wasn't important enough to him, to be honest.
On October 02 2011 18:56 KimJongChill wrote: Wow, I did not expect these results at all. This is like the universe is folding in on itself. MKP to win GSL code S ???
20 Terrans are in Code S, He has no chance of winning one
Lol hes already knocked out of this seasons code S. To be fair, i think the level in code S is so high, any player can go on to the semi finals. Everyone in code S is so good and i think the only difference is their preparation and such.
though he is lucky that Puzzle fumbled a 4 gate or he would be in up/downs right now.
Or he would've beat Puzzle in a straight up game since his TvP his fine.
Hypothetical situations are great.
Not in that game. MKP was essentially dead in a BO loss but Puzzle decided to go afk for a drink or something, allowing MKP to get bunkers up in his main and build up an army and finish stim.
On October 02 2011 20:35 VirGin wrote: First prize here is 1500$ right? Right, MKPs winnings hover around the 80k$ mark, but DRG has hardly won much money at all. Now I don't know anything about the salary rate in MVP, but I'm gonna assume he isnt getting rich. This is money, and it'd probably be quite welcome. Along with that comes pride, and the inherent will to win all progamers should have. I don't buy that he didn't try because it wasn't important enough to him, to be honest.
I agree with you completely. There is no reason for the players to not play their best.
Summary: MKP won 4 games by using mass helion, and DRG didnt build a single roach, right so MKP dominated DRG all the time ? and those game ended in mid-game ? If true -> another Korean's sc2 final boring !!!!!!!!!
On October 02 2011 20:35 VirGin wrote: First prize here is 1500$ right? Right, MKPs winnings hover around the 80k$ mark, but DRG has hardly won much money at all. Now I don't know anything about the salary rate in MVP, but I'm gonna assume he isnt getting rich. This is money, and it'd probably be quite welcome. Along with that comes pride, and the inherent will to win all progamers should have. I don't buy that he didn't try because it wasn't important enough to him, to be honest.
I agree with you completely. There is no reason for the players to not play their best.
there isn't if there's no parallel tounament that is happening at the same time. Especially when it is the GSL, koreans's top priority
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
This format is the same as MLG. People didn't get time to prepare for their opponents, therefore they didn't play as well as they would usually. They still played standard.
Good points,
Also just like to point out that the prize money is approx 1800 $AUD (I'm Aussie). That is nothing compared to the $87000 which is GSL. (I think some seasons are $50,000? the one MVP won anyway).
On October 02 2011 19:19 Telcontar wrote: MKP won? Meh, this tournament isn't prestigious enough to make a dent in his kong status. So I assume MKP hit timings to kill DRG? Fair enough. Why play straightup when you know you have the weaker macro game?
he won in macro games and with pressure, but only one win was even anything close to all-in. but go ahead and assume whenever a zerg loses its to cheese. DRG is a one-trick pony that overdrones behind a few spines into mass muta and he got utterly solved today.
I have to say i kinda saw this coming. DRG usually prefers to skip roachs all together vs Terran in I would say 80% of all matches he has played. I am actually surprised that MKP realized this and said "Hey, i think hellions counter lings. I should make lots of them since DRG doesnt like roachs!". In most games DRG loses anyways he mainly loses to miscontrol against early hellion pushes or early hellion marine drop play. I am sad that DRG didnt cuz im a fan of his but atleast MKP finally got a gold.
Alot of players are now gonna go for early cheeses and hellion harass against him now that theyre seeing his weakness in zvt. Just like when players learned they needed to bunker rush Losira or do some cheese to slow him down before his unbelievable macro kicks in.
On October 02 2011 19:19 Telcontar wrote: MKP won? Meh, this tournament isn't prestigious enough to make a dent in his kong status. So I assume MKP hit timings to kill DRG? Fair enough. Why play straightup when you know you have the weaker macro game?
Another tool.
MarineKing's macro is perfectly fine.
He raped DRG in a macro game in the second game by the way.
I guess it's hard to gauge someone's ability in an area when you see so little of it. Most of MKP's 'macro game' wins have been because he crippled his opponents with timings and couldn't finish things then and there. I'm not saying that kind of playstyle is particularly bad or illegitimate, but it does make him a one-dimensional player. The reason he hit a slump a few months back is because people started figuring out his gimmicks. He tried to play a bit more standard, but that wasn't working out too well for him. Then he switched back to his usual style and it's been paying off lately. You have to give him some props for coming up with new timings, but that still doesn't mean he's not a one-trick pony. I guess I'm just disappointed that someone like MKP can have that kind of success in the game, playing the same way again and again for almost a year. That or I'm just disappointed with Blizzard for making a game that makes it possible.
Man you're gonna looooooooove when fOrGG starts playing.
On October 02 2011 21:42 covetousrat wrote: MKP finally broke his curse!! Guess its good bye to Mini Yellow
Nope, this win actually reinforces his position as SC2's Yellow. This was a special event, not a Starleague final. Yellow was notorious for winning special events in BW while coming up short in the big tourneys. MKP remains the Kong of SC2.
On October 02 2011 21:42 covetousrat wrote: MKP finally broke his curse!! Guess its good bye to Mini Yellow
Why are people saying this lol? MKP is the korean with the most golds I think (2 FXOpen Invitational, some FXO korean koth, champion trophy, CPL China, Gview Thailand and I am probably forgetting some), the problem is that none of them are GSL Main Event, it's only "small" tournaments, and that's exactly what the kong line is : fail in the biggest event but do wonders in small tourneys/special events. The more tournaments like this he wins, the more he is in the "kong line/yellow curse"
On October 02 2011 19:19 Telcontar wrote: MKP won? Meh, this tournament isn't prestigious enough to make a dent in his kong status. So I assume MKP hit timings to kill DRG? Fair enough. Why play straightup when you know you have the weaker macro game?
he won in macro games and with pressure, but only one win was even anything close to all-in. but go ahead and assume whenever a zerg loses its to cheese. DRG is a one-trick pony that overdrones behind a few spines into mass muta and he got utterly solved today.
The terminus game was some ridiculous macro, but you're an idiot if you think DRG overdrones every game. He's actually one of the LEAST drone-heavy Zergs (of world class caliber) out there. He stays on 2 bases much longer than anyone else that's any good.
Going mass marine/hellion is not "pressure", if you get denied you are massively behind because you don't have a tank backbone.
I love your awful memory. See DRG make 20 drones at once in ONE GAME, TODAY, and suddenly he's a "one-trick pony that overdrones." The only reason you think that is because you can only remember one game at a time.
It's insulting to DRG to call him "tricky." He has some of the most solid ZvT in the world, and you know nothing about high level play if you think STANDARD zerg play is "tricky." Assuming a normal macro style, his method of playing (standard) is the only way to keep up with the Terran. If MKP had been playing standard instead of going all in, DRG would have been put MASSIVELY far behind by your armchair counter "strategy." It would essentially be a build order loss.
I'm sorry he doesn't play a race that can respond to anything with a huge defender's advantage, deny any meaningful scouting, AND have many radically different openings (leading into a myriad of mid to late game compositions) that require entirely different responses all at the same time.
On October 02 2011 09:08 Telcontar wrote: Looking at the DRG vs Thorzain finals in Valencia, DRG looked surprisingly susceptible to timings. If MKP catches him off guard with some funky and well timed attacks, he can probably take it. If not, he'll get absolutely murdered.
This prediction was so right. It really looked like MKP had figured DRG out.
Somehow I don't feel like this tournament was taken seriously by the players. The low prize money (1st place: 1800$) wasn't enough for them to expose new strategies. I believe this was partially why we saw so many similar games from DRG.
On October 02 2011 23:00 blackbrrd wrote: Somehow I don't feel like this tournament was taken seriously by the players. The low prize money (1st place: 1800$) wasn't enough for them to expose new strategies. I believe this was partially why we saw so many similar games from DRG.
"DRG used similar strats because they always worked against MKP before" would be more correct.
Money coming in and winning a tourney like that would still be top priority for them I think.
Holy crap MKP raped shit tonight with fxo Koth and owning drg like a noob 4-1. Only one all in too, never would have expected it. Figures that only mvp/mma/mkp can take on the worlds best ZvT'er. I understand why people say he's undefeatable on ladder/online now haha.
In this case, MKP was dammed if he did, and damned if he didn't. If he came second, well that would have played to form, but by winning it, well he STILL represented the Kong line. His only option would have been to crash out at group stages, to save some respect
On October 02 2011 23:57 EcstatiC wrote: lol this is exactly what MKP did to fruitdealer in GSL2, he just stomped him out with early timings before the zerg could go into macro mode.
Well, DRG showed a weakness in game 3 and Marineking exploited it in all the other games - just smart play.
On October 03 2011 00:32 zestzorb wrote: So is he Optimus now? Or does he have to win a "real" GSL?
He needs a real GSL. MKP already won tons of side events like this. (by "tons" I mean at least 4 on top of my head). Kong liners are famous for winning a lot of side events, but never the main event, so his win today is in the logic of the universe.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
No one said marines were OP before he made them OP. Most people were complaining about marauders.
He changed the TvZ matchup completely.
He popularized the 2 rax build.
He got 2nd place 4 times in GSL.
A lot of people said marines were good before him, they have insane dps and efficency, and how did he change TvZ ? Dont terran do marine/tank/medivacs anymore ?
Before MKP vs Kyrix, NO ONE knew that splitting marines against Banelings was effective.
No, MVP was the first to split marines, but MKP just made it really famous through that series and being only marine heavy.
17 minutes on creep without combat shields, that's probably why he's the marine King.
2-rax aggression came from Maka, hence the term "Maka-build" (in Korea).
The suggestion, that mma hid some special builds is some reasonable, because TvT is a very gimmicky matchup, where you can put on a lot of trickery on your opponent. BUT to say, that this is the case for DRG is just stupid. ZvT is all about standard solid reactionary play. Does anyone here really think, that DRG ist not known for his Muta harassment, or Muta/(Bane)Ling mapcontrol? and would it be really suprising to see DRG pull off some infestor play? NO damn! ZvT is a really standard matchup, solid play with 2 possible standard all ins (roach or baneling/speedling allin). Perhaps he has some special build hold back. But that doesn't explain why he shouldn't be playing his very strong standard play, he uses to all the time! This suggestion is only some shit by stupid haters, trying to troll MKP's success. He played very well today. None of his builds was all in, he got an expansion and tech behind all of them! Saying that he can't win a straight up macro game is shit too, just watch game 2 stupid haters. Grats, well deserved and well played MKP!
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
No one said marines were OP before he made them OP. Most people were complaining about marauders.
He changed the TvZ matchup completely.
He popularized the 2 rax build.
He got 2nd place 4 times in GSL.
A lot of people said marines were good before him, they have insane dps and efficency, and how did he change TvZ ? Dont terran do marine/tank/medivacs anymore ?
Before MKP vs Kyrix, NO ONE knew that splitting marines against Banelings was effective.
No, MVP was the first to split marines, but MKP just made it really famous through that series and being only marine heavy.
17 minutes on creep without combat shields, that's probably why he's the marine King.
2-rax aggression came from Maka, hence the term "Maka-build" (in Korea).
Maka rax was not really the 2rax 12 14, it was a rax visible by the standart scout pattern. MKP used 2 rax with an hidden rax (thus not really a maka rax) and popularized the various 2rax openers, the original maka rax didn't won Maka broadcasted games I think. Anyways a lot of terrans splitted their marines a bit (Mvp did it against Zenio) but not in the early game or not a lot. Plus the fact that Mvp lost to Zenio didn't help, whereas MarineKing crushed through his opponents more or less with marines+micro tricks only.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
No one said marines were OP before he made them OP. Most people were complaining about marauders.
He changed the TvZ matchup completely.
He popularized the 2 rax build.
He got 2nd place 4 times in GSL.
A lot of people said marines were good before him, they have insane dps and efficency, and how did he change TvZ ? Dont terran do marine/tank/medivacs anymore ?
Before MKP vs Kyrix, NO ONE knew that splitting marines against Banelings was effective.
No, MVP was the first to split marines, but MKP just made it really famous through that series and being only marine heavy.
17 minutes on creep without combat shields, that's probably why he's the marine King.
2-rax aggression came from Maka, hence the term "Maka-build" (in Korea).
Maka rax was not really the 2rax 12 14, it was a rax visible by the standart scout pattern. MKP used 2 rax with an hidden rax (thus not really a maka rax) and popularized the various 2rax openers, the original maka rax didn't won Maka broadcasted games I think. Anyways a lot of terrans splitted their marines a bit (Mvp did it against Zenio) but not in the early game or not a lot. Plus the fact that Mvp lost to Zenio didn't help, whereas MarineKing crushed through his opponents more or less with marines+micro tricks only.
Maka rax is a completely foreign term, in Korea 2-rax early aggression play is called the Maka-build. I believe Wolf (or Moletrap, crc) mentioned this fact in one of their recent casts after having spoken to Maka himself about the "Maka rax".
Edit: I think they mentioned it in Maka's most recent GSL match.
On October 02 2011 19:19 Telcontar wrote: MKP won? Meh, this tournament isn't prestigious enough to make a dent in his kong status. So I assume MKP hit timings to kill DRG? Fair enough. Why play straightup when you know you have the weaker macro game?
Timings have been described as both cheesy and abusive. I don't understand what's wrong with them. You attack when your opponent is weak and you are strong, to the best of your scouting. I think that to not take advantage of timings is actually doing the game a disservice, since Blizzard has tried to make a game of great variety: 3 iconic races with characteristics so definite that each race actually attracts particular types of players and fans. The race loyalty is also something I enjoy, but I digress.
Simply, not hitting when your opponent is weak is silly. It is especially silly when you consider that DRG is widely reputed to be the better player and a TvZ monster. It would have been idiotic for MKP to play to DRG's strengths. [I thus quote the above]
Yet people tend to say that the games were bad because of this.
The truth is I think DRG underperformed, and MKP really did his homework. The reason, not the excuse, may be that DRG has too much to prepare for: GSL, that Valencia thing, GSTL, this.
I also posit that DRG may be MKP's opposite in one way. MKP wilts in the limelight, DRG shines when there's a crowd.
This is not a big surprise for me though. The only Zerg who's beaten MKP in a series so far is Nestea, back in their finals match up. It may have been DRG's best match up, but it's also MKP's.
It could have gone either way I guess. I suppose I prefer this result though, go MKP!
Yay MKP!! He won a tournament with many good players, but now it is confirmed that this isn't a major tournament simply because he didn't take second place. :D
Some of you are so naive. Good players don't "rise above" the need for timings. This game is timings. Figure out when your opponent is weakest relative to you through preparation or scouting and go fucking kill him.
On October 02 2011 19:19 Telcontar wrote: MKP won? Meh, this tournament isn't prestigious enough to make a dent in his kong status. So I assume MKP hit timings to kill DRG? Fair enough. Why play straightup when you know you have the weaker macro game?
It is especially silly when you consider that DRG is widely reputed to be the better player and a TvZ monster. It would have been idiotic for MKP to play to DRG's strengths. [I thus quote the above]
On October 03 2011 00:32 zestzorb wrote: So is he Optimus now? Or does he have to win a "real" GSL?
how can u compare this to a real GSL?
maybe due to the fact that combined gsl finals appearances from these players is 16
That is true, but there was only 1,800$ on the line here, unlike the 50,000$ in the GSL. The preparations done before each match looked much worse than it does in the GSL.
On October 02 2011 18:14 JohnnyBlaze420 wrote: marine king too scared to play macro games against drg....
DRG not good enough to get past the midgame against MKP.
On October 02 2011 19:19 Telcontar wrote: MKP won? Meh, this tournament isn't prestigious enough to make a dent in his kong status. So I assume MKP hit timings to kill DRG? Fair enough. Why play straightup when you know you have the weaker macro game?
DRG played greedy? Fair enough. Why play straightup when you know you have the weaker macro game? Oh, right, because someone good will just come kill you.
On October 02 2011 19:19 Telcontar wrote: MKP won? Meh, this tournament isn't prestigious enough to make a dent in his kong status. So I assume MKP hit timings to kill DRG? Fair enough. Why play straightup when you know you have the weaker macro game?
Another tool.
MarineKing's macro is perfectly fine.
He raped DRG in a macro game in the second game by the way.
I guess it's hard to gauge someone's ability in an area when you see so little of it. Most of MKP's 'macro game' wins have been because he crippled his opponents with timings and couldn't finish things then and there. I'm not saying that kind of playstyle is particularly bad or illegitimate, but it does make him a one-dimensional player. The reason he hit a slump a few months back is because people started figuring out his gimmicks. He tried to play a bit more standard, but that wasn't working out too well for him. Then he switched back to his usual style and it's been paying off lately. You have to give him some props for coming up with new timings, but that still doesn't mean he's not a one-trick pony. I guess I'm just disappointed that someone like MKP can have that kind of success in the game, playing the same way again and again for almost a year. That or I'm just disappointed with Blizzard for making a game that makes it possible.
His recent slump was basically just mech in TvT. The Up and Down group that sent him to Code A was Ryung, Happy, Dream and Fruitdealer. MKP went 1-3...guess who he beat? His Code S group that kept him from advancing was Bomber, Ryung and Puzzle. He went 2-1...guess who he beat? The guy just doesn't seem to have the skills he needs to tank battle, right now. I'm guessing it is because he played Protoss in Brood War; so, he has less history with tanks. Hopefully he will figure it out soon. The popularity of mech and the prevalence of Terrans in the GSL does not bode well for his future, right now.
"Someone like MKP"? You mean a player with phenomenal control and excellent mechanics? Yeah, it is a real shame that skilled players are successful in SC2.
...
Anyway, anyone who watched the SK Gaming Asians Champion Trophy saw this style from MKP before. That is how he beat Cezanne. In fact, he did that exact double reactor hellion build in one of the games.
Also, anyone remember Boxer's last matches in Code A against Leenock? He tried a similar hellion/marine build as MKP did in game 4, only he did not quite control his units well enough against Leenock's banelings. People were saying how it would probably take someone like MKP to make that style work. I hope too see more of that from MKP in the future - I like it. Despite the absolutely tragic loss of lurkers, bio without tanks versus Zerg still has a feel similar to SK Terran and that is something everyone can enjoy.
I wouldn't really consider DRG to be a strong "macro Zerg", to be honest. He gets an advantage on two bases and rides it out for a win a lot of the time. He's not like NesTea. I don't think many players are afraid of DRG's macro. They're afraid of his unit control.
On October 02 2011 19:19 Telcontar wrote: MKP won? Meh, this tournament isn't prestigious enough to make a dent in his kong status. So I assume MKP hit timings to kill DRG? Fair enough. Why play straightup when you know you have the weaker macro game?
DRG played greedy? Fair enough. Why play straightup when you know you have the weaker macro game? Oh, right, because someone good will just come kill you.
On October 02 2011 19:19 Telcontar wrote: MKP won? Meh, this tournament isn't prestigious enough to make a dent in his kong status. So I assume MKP hit timings to kill DRG? Fair enough. Why play straightup when you know you have the weaker macro game?
Another tool.
MarineKing's macro is perfectly fine.
He raped DRG in a macro game in the second game by the way.
I guess it's hard to gauge someone's ability in an area when you see so little of it. Most of MKP's 'macro game' wins have been because he crippled his opponents with timings and couldn't finish things then and there. I'm not saying that kind of playstyle is particularly bad or illegitimate, but it does make him a one-dimensional player. The reason he hit a slump a few months back is because people started figuring out his gimmicks. He tried to play a bit more standard, but that wasn't working out too well for him. Then he switched back to his usual style and it's been paying off lately. You have to give him some props for coming up with new timings, but that still doesn't mean he's not a one-trick pony. I guess I'm just disappointed that someone like MKP can have that kind of success in the game, playing the same way again and again for almost a year. That or I'm just disappointed with Blizzard for making a game that makes it possible.
His recent slump was basically just mech in TvT. The Up and Down group that sent him to Code A was Ryung, Happy, Dream and Fruitdealer. MKP went 1-3...guess who he beat? His Code S group that kept him from advancing was Bomber, Ryung and Puzzle. He went 2-1...guess who he beat? The guy just doesn't seem to have the skills he needs to tank battle, right now. I'm guessing it is because he played Protoss in Brood War; so, he has less history with tanks. Hopefully he will figure it out soon. The popularity of mech and the prevalence of Terrans in the GSL does not bode well for his future, right now.
"Someone like MKP"? You mean a player with phenomenal control and excellent mechanics? Yeah, it is a real shame that skilled players are successful in SC2.
...
Anyway, anyone who watched the SK Gaming Asians Champion Trophy saw this style from MKP before. That is how he beat Cezanne. In fact, he did that exact double reactor hellion build in one of the games.
Also, anyone remember Boxer's last matches in Code A against Leenock? He tried a similar hellion/marine build as MKP did in game 4, only he did not quite control his units well enough against Leenock's banelings. People were saying how it would probably take someone like MKP to make that style work. I hope too see more of that from MKP in the future - I like it. Despite the absolutely tragic loss of lurkers, bio without tanks versus Zerg still has a feel similar to SK Terran and that is something everyone can enjoy.
these post probably just shut up all the DRG fanboys
gratz for MKP though, next stop, MLG then..... GSL!
On October 03 2011 03:21 koppik wrote: I wouldn't really consider DRG to be a strong "macro Zerg", to be honest. He gets an advantage on two bases and rides it out for a win a lot of the time. He's not like NesTea. I don't think many players are afraid of DRG's macro. They're afraid of his unit control.
I find in confusing as to why people think Nestea is god ZvT. His ZvT win ratio is only 57 percent. Drg is 73%. Macro zerg is not a superior style.
On October 02 2011 23:59 MCDayC wrote: In this case, MKP was dammed if he did, and damned if he didn't. If he came second, well that would have played to form, but by winning it, well he STILL represented the Kong line. His only option would have been to crash out at group stages, to save some respect
Totally true lol. Looking at the vast majority of prediction posts on this thread proves that
I like DRG more than MKP anyway though, so I was hoping DRG would have won.
That being said, I'm going to give credit where credit is due, and congratulate MKP on his win ^^
Another thing to consider is that MKP probably would have played worse if it was like a GSL setting on stage.
When you watch him play you can feel (throughout many matches/tournaments) him choking up or looking like a noob sometimes, even though he plays really really well and is a very strong player (remember how a few months back it was MKP, MVP, Nestea, MC as the best players?).
I'm guessing it's because of nerves and stuff like that. Hopefully this special tournament online win will give him more confidence next time he is in the finals of an onstage tournament (MLG? which will be a good stepping stone to win a GSL)
I wish DRG had made one freaking Roach during all these games...I wonder if he was saving up his real builds for code S? That's the only reason I can fathom.
On October 03 2011 09:05 mierin wrote: I wish DRG had made one freaking Roach during all these games...I wonder if he was saving up his real builds for code S? That's the only reason I can fathom.
he does the same exact build every single ZvT. it was only a matter of time before someone exploited it.
On October 03 2011 05:41 Pyo wrote: Wait, MKP didn't finish second? Did hell just freeze over?
I'm so happy for him – hopefully this means he'll win the next MLG.
he's won minor online tournaments before (which is what AoL was) just nothing major. Doubt he'll win MLG.
This is better known as "MKP is significantly funded by FXO and viewers like you". (FXO has paid him like 3.5k USD in prize money over the course of the last 6 months)
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
No one said marines were OP before he made them OP. Most people were complaining about marauders.
He changed the TvZ matchup completely.
He popularized the 2 rax build.
He got 2nd place 4 times in GSL.
A lot of people said marines were good before him, they have insane dps and efficency, and how did he change TvZ ? Dont terran do marine/tank/medivacs anymore ?
Before MKP vs Kyrix, NO ONE knew that splitting marines against Banelings was effective.
No, MVP was the first to split marines, but MKP just made it really famous through that series and being only marine heavy.
17 minutes on creep without combat shields, that's probably why he's the marine King.
2-rax aggression came from Maka, hence the term "Maka-build" (in Korea).
there was never a phrase "maka-build"
it was "maka rax" because of the odd placement. Saying that 2 rax aggression comes from anyone but slayersboxer is pretty much blasphemy.
On October 03 2011 09:05 mierin wrote: I wish DRG had made one freaking Roach during all these games...I wonder if he was saving up his real builds for code S? That's the only reason I can fathom.
He basically raped all of his opponents in the tournament (with all GSL champs except Polt) and made them look like noobs, only losing one game in the final. Too bad he didn't get to face any of the GSL champs. I really wanted to see him rape Nestea but a better ZvT win ratio player like DRG will do...
DRG getting raped by hellions every game and not adapting at all is beyond me, especially after the hellion nerf.
On October 04 2011 03:03 Hakkesshu wrote: Congrats to MKP!
He basically raped all of his opponents in the tournament (with all GSL champs except Polt) and made them look like noobs, only losing one game in the final. Too bad he didn't get to face any of the GSL champs. I really wanted to see him rape Nestea but a better ZvT win ratio player like DRG will do...
DRG getting raped by hellions every game and not adapting at all is beyond me, especially after the hellion nerf.
On October 04 2011 03:03 Hakkesshu wrote: Congrats to MKP!
He basically raped all of his opponents in the tournament (with all GSL champs except Polt) and made them look like noobs, only losing one game in the final. Too bad he didn't get to face any of the GSL champs. I really wanted to see him rape Nestea but a better ZvT win ratio player like DRG will do...
DRG getting raped by hellions every game and not adapting at all is beyond me, especially after the hellion nerf.
On October 05 2011 19:12 MrMercuG wrote: MKP finally broke his 2nd place curse, that's great!
Also 5-1 was very unexpecting! :D
Ya after the first game it wasn't looking like MKP was gonna clean house, especially when he picked Terminus RE for game 2.
Hopefully Prime takes down the GSTL championship too and MKP finally conquers his stage fright (He's won plenty of online tournaments and even took a small-ish lan in China)!
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wzZzK.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/2627.jpg)
VS ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/959.jpg)
DRG < Daybreak > 
MKP
![[image loading]](http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/2869/d2spr.jpg)
