On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
This format is the same as MLG. People didn't get time to prepare for their opponents, therefore they didn't play as well as they would usually. They still played standard.
That's not quite it either. I've seen better in the gstl (no prep either), especially from Drg (he's king there). It obviously isn't live, but was it even confirmed as to what the time span for this tournament was, or are you assuming they didn't have much prep? As for standard...
Nestea playing aggressive instead of defensive as usual and quite sloppily? Losira doing half-assed baneling busts against MKP instead of getting further ahead when he had the clear upper-hand then dying to simple bunker pressure in the next game? DRG rolls MVP rather easily, but can't seem to stand up to a few hellions to the point that he gets 3-1'd? I don't think so.
Bro, ever thought about getting a job at FBI? They need you, and you can do it.
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
This format is the same as MLG. People didn't get time to prepare for their opponents, therefore they didn't play as well as they would usually. They still played standard.
That's not quite it either. I've seen better in the gstl (no prep either), especially from Drg (he's king there). It obviously isn't live, but was it even confirmed as to what the time span for this tournament was, or are you assuming they didn't have much prep? As for standard...
Nestea playing aggressive instead of defensive as usual and quite sloppily? Losira doing half-assed baneling busts against MKP instead of getting further ahead when he had the clear upper-hand then dying to simple bunker pressure in the next game? DRG rolls MVP rather easily, but can't seem to stand up to a few hellions to the point that he gets 3-1'd? I don't think so.
Nestea plays aggressive in Code S games as well? Not all of them, but he does. Losira is awful at ZvT, he always wastes like 200 lings on nothing so it's not that surprising.
Honestly, they might nothave played their best but they didn't go into a tournament with prize money to show their fans that they are awful, unmotivated players.
They can, they have GSL to prepare for
MMA's next match is TvT so he has been practicing TvT. DRG's next match is ZvT, so he has been practicing ZvT.
The fact that people are even suggesting that this tournament didn't count somehow is absolutely saddening. It's one thing to suggest that some players were not playing their best (this happens in code S GSL all the time -_- ) but to say that the players were not trying their best is idiotic.
You can hate on the builds all you want, or the players themselves, but don't call this tournament or the players out because you have this twisted perception that they don't care about the results.
Think we guys should just accept that mkp was the better player today. MKP likes to use many different strategies but all of them are very unique and it did show that he prepared for the match while DRG just kept to his same old build. MKP prepared better so he deserved the win.
I don't think Arena of Legends matters that much to any of the players, they're just playing for fun. They want to save all their strategies for GSL, where the real money is.
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
This format is the same as MLG. People didn't get time to prepare for their opponents, therefore they didn't play as well as they would usually. They still played standard.
That's not quite it either. I've seen better in the gstl (no prep either), especially from Drg (he's king there). It obviously isn't live, but was it even confirmed as to what the time span for this tournament was, or are you assuming they didn't have much prep? As for standard...
Nestea playing aggressive instead of defensive as usual and quite sloppily? Losira doing half-assed baneling busts against MKP instead of getting further ahead when he had the clear upper-hand then dying to simple bunker pressure in the next game? DRG rolls MVP rather easily, but can't seem to stand up to a few hellions to the point that he gets 3-1'd? I don't think so.
Nestea plays aggressive in Code S games as well? Not all of them, but he does. Losira is awful at ZvT, he always wastes like 200 lings on nothing so it's not that surprising.
Honestly, they might nothave played their best but they didn't go into a tournament with prize money to show their fans that they are awful, unmotivated players.
They can, they have GSL to prepare for
MMA's next match is TvT so he has been practicing TvT. DRG's next match is ZvT, so he has been practicing ZvT.
and they don''t want to show their cards yes?
DRG does the exact same thing.. every single game. He has no cards to hide. He just does it extremely well. MMA just showed his early game is beyond bad which everyone knew already.
On October 02 2011 18:36 noddy wrote: Maghetti cries about MarineKing in every thread he plays in by the way, just look at the GSTL semi final thread. Not sure why people still bother.
I do because I am still not satisfied with the answers of his fans. I want to understand what people see in his play that makes them enjoy his games. I literally do not get it at all. It is either pointing to stuff he did many many GSLs ago or trying to deny that he does a lot of 1 basing, a lot of gimmicky attacks, etc.
Don't feed the troll. The only 1 base marineking does is against protoss (1/1/1). If I recall correctly, players like Bomber, Puma, MvP also are quite keen on doing 1 base attacks against protoss. Basically every code S terran has a variation of that 1 base build in their arsenal against protoss. Otherwise 1 base builds are basically giving the other player a free win in TvT and TvZ. Marineking popularized 1 rax expand in TvP and 2 rax into Expo in TvZ. Not sure how those are cheesy 1 base builds.
Yeah. As much as I do not like Terrans, you can't deny the MKP's footprint in modern TvZ. 1 rax expand and 2 rax is de facto standard TvZ build to date, ever since showcased by MKP in GSL 2. If anything watch TvZ in Season 1 and Season 2. Way more "gimicky" plays that involved reapers, banshes, thors, etc. (mostly 1 base, mind you) There was some uneasy period where everyone did marine/scv all-in's in GSL3, but since then the TvZ has settled to the current style and it's the most "standard" match up compared to TvP or PvZ. MKP single handedly established modern TvZ style.
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
This format is the same as MLG. People didn't get time to prepare for their opponents, therefore they didn't play as well as they would usually. They still played standard.
That's not quite it either. I've seen better in the gstl (no prep either), especially from Drg (he's king there). It obviously isn't live, but was it even confirmed as to what the time span for this tournament was, or are you assuming they didn't have much prep? As for standard...
Nestea playing aggressive instead of defensive as usual and quite sloppily? Losira doing half-assed baneling busts against MKP instead of getting further ahead when he had the clear upper-hand then dying to simple bunker pressure in the next game? DRG rolls MVP rather easily, but can't seem to stand up to a few hellions to the point that he gets 3-1'd? I don't think so.
Nestea plays aggressive in Code S games as well? Not all of them, but he does. Losira is awful at ZvT, he always wastes like 200 lings on nothing so it's not that surprising.
Honestly, they might nothave played their best but they didn't go into a tournament with prize money to show their fans that they are awful, unmotivated players.
They can, they have GSL to prepare for
MMA's next match is TvT so he has been practicing TvT. DRG's next match is ZvT, so he has been practicing ZvT.
and they don''t want to show their cards yes?
DRG does the exact same thing.. every single game. He has no cards to hide. He just does it extremely well. MMA just showed his early game is beyond bad which everyone knew already.
he has already mentioned in one of his interview that he has other strategies that has not yet shown because he's afraid terran will figure his old style one day, unless he's lying, but i doubt it
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
This format is the same as MLG. People didn't get time to prepare for their opponents, therefore they didn't play as well as they would usually. They still played standard.
That's not quite it either. I've seen better in the gstl (no prep either), especially from Drg (he's king there). It obviously isn't live, but was it even confirmed as to what the time span for this tournament was, or are you assuming they didn't have much prep? As for standard...
Nestea playing aggressive instead of defensive as usual and quite sloppily? Losira doing half-assed baneling busts against MKP instead of getting further ahead when he had the clear upper-hand then dying to simple bunker pressure in the next game? DRG rolls MVP rather easily, but can't seem to stand up to a few hellions to the point that he gets 3-1'd? I don't think so.
Nestea plays aggressive in Code S games as well? Not all of them, but he does. Losira is awful at ZvT, he always wastes like 200 lings on nothing so it's not that surprising.
Honestly, they might nothave played their best but they didn't go into a tournament with prize money to show their fans that they are awful, unmotivated players.
They can, they have GSL to prepare for
MMA's next match is TvT so he has been practicing TvT. DRG's next match is ZvT, so he has been practicing ZvT.
and they don''t want to show their cards yes?
DRG does the exact same thing.. every single game. He has no cards to hide. He just does it extremely well. MMA just showed his early game is beyond bad which everyone knew already.
Yeah DRG is extremely predictable and with the exception of a few games, he almost always goes early lair into mutas every game. MKP exposed the weakness in his build and beat him this way. I don't see why people should think its gimmicky, you obviously play to your opponents weaknesses. I'm not a MKP fan and i sort of dislike him but i think he deserves credit for finding a hole in DRGs play that all the other terrans that have fallen to DRG couldn't. DRG may not have prepared for this match so much and just went with his standard build but that didn't mean MKP played badly. MKP still had to play smart to beat DRG. Don't see anyone hating TLOs gimmick strats as well.
MKP won? Meh, this tournament isn't prestigious enough to make a dent in his kong status. So I assume MKP hit timings to kill DRG? Fair enough. Why play straightup when you know you have the weaker macro game?
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
HAHAHAHA saying that MLG is on the level of GSL code S is a bit ridiculous. MLG is not even close to the level of GSL level play. A lot of the MLG pool wouldn't even qualify for Code A.
Learn to read, I'm talking about how the Koreans play while at MLG. MVP, Bomber, DRG, MMA, Losira. They play up to their level, of course it's usually only seen when they go up against each other as the foreigners can't push them to their limits. In some cases the games are better from them. Coca was thought to suck terribly at Zvt back then...owned puma and played good against bomber until the later stages of their games. Boxer did very nicely at Anaheim. Nada looked awesome as well, especially the win against Puma. Rain actually looked good for once at Anaheim.
The Koreans are forced to play better consistently in GSL than they do at MLG to win. They also have to refine their play MUCH MUCH more in GSL (which means a higher level of play if you don't follow that logic). No, CoCa was considered amazing at TvZ ever since he switched to SlayerS. It wasn't because of the big crowd lmfao. You should think before you post things like that.
Why is this so hard for you to understand. The play demonstrated at MLG, and the play demonstrated in the GSL from the koreans (at least against each other) is of similar caliber. You know what they've practiced for in the gsl, the skills they've gained may have, I don't know, come with them to MLG...?
I believe coca actually had just joined slayers around the time he went to MLG, prior to this he didn't show much of his zvt off and it was regarded as quite bad. So no.
Also, who's to say the audience didn't play a factor in their performance. Maybe, just maybe, the incentive from the fans carries more weight than the same amount of money they'd get by advancing to the ro16 by winning this small tournament.
On October 02 2011 19:19 Telcontar wrote: MKP won? Meh, this tournament isn't prestigious enough to make a dent in his kong status. So I assume MKP hit timings to kill DRG? Fair enough. Why play straightup when you know you have the weaker macro game?
Another tool.
MarineKing's macro is perfectly fine.
He raped DRG in a macro game in the second game by the way.
On October 02 2011 18:02 Eishi_Ki wrote: I still dont get why people like MKP, what has he actually done to inspire people so? Is it the mass marines thing? Does no one else think marines are one of the most boring units in the game?
Or do people just feel sorry for him?
I dont get it
I agree completely. I feel like I'm in bizarro world where this boring gimmicky abusive 1 baser has a huge fan base. I feel confident in saying if mkp played the way he plays now(now being since the earl seasons where he got popular with marine splits) people would hate him.
Watch this,
Your world wont be as bizzare.
you should not even reply to some of these people.
a dude claiming that MKP is a "gimmicky abusive 1 baser" when he basically popularized the 1 rax expand and was ALREADY expanding in season2/3 where all the other terrans were 1 basing...
this guy obviously does not watch the GSL or he's seriously uninformed
I have seen almost the entirely of GSL. I have missed a few games here and there but 99% of GSL I have seen. I call him a gimmicky abusive 1 baser not because everything he does is a gimmicky abusive 1 base play but because he does many gimmicky strategies, many abusive strategies, and many 1 base strategies. He can play a straight up game just fine, that just makes it more annoying when he does such a high rate of really lame builds.
He is famous for mass marine vs banes. This is the definition of a gimmicky play. He is famous for base trades. For MMM vs zerg and vs terran(both gimmicky). He does stuff like double reactored hellions, or 2port banshee a lot. He was very well known for 2 rax with scv pull. He does the 1/1/1 quite a lot. I can go on all day with this.
ummm i dont get what you mean by gimmicky.... srsly. are you trolling? o.O
Gimmicky is hard to define. Basically, something that relys of your opponent to make a mistake but isn't always cheese. Like 2 port banshee would be gimmicky because if it is scouted it losses. Building a army of all marines vs banes would be gimmicky. Basically stuff that isn't reliable over many games. You could win a game with a endless rally of marines, but no meta game will ever develop with that being standard because it doesn't work if they see it coming. You get me?
Mass marines vs banelings is gimmicky? If you split perfect, and do perfect scoot and shoot micro you won't even lose a single marine! So the only restriction is the Terran players apm, a quite big one. Still if you feel confident enough to get at least in the costefficient zone with marines vs banes, I don't see why someone like marineking shouldn't counter banes with marines.
On October 02 2011 18:16 Kogutz wrote: mkp fanboys gonna explode from insane amount of love. Not even close to entretained with those matches. The same stuff, over and over, since the 3rd game.
why would he change when its working? Why didnt DRG make roches? We will never know.
I really don't understand it. DRG has been having tons of success in TvZ with his early roach pressure builds, yet he chooses not to do a single one against MKP despite his obvious predeliction towards hellions. Just a weird, weird game.
Congrats to MKP, but this final was pretty silly in typical GSL fashion.
Yeah, everyone who watches DRG lately knows that he is going roach early a lot against terran... these games were weird from him :/
On October 02 2011 18:14 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: So yeah....anyone still putting much stock in AoL lol? MKP 4-1 arguably the strongest zvt in the world. 3-0 MMA. DRG easily 2-0s MVP. Something is fishy
Yeah, its about as credible as MLG.
Comments like this are dumb. Progamers dont play to lose.
Well apparently they aren't playing very hard to win. Nearly all of these games are oddly below expectation of the player. Why is that? Comparing this to MLG is foolish, they play standard there, sometimes better than at the gsl (probably because of the large audience). This just feels like a practice code-S. Fucking lame.
HAHAHAHA saying that MLG is on the level of GSL code S is a bit ridiculous. MLG is not even close to the level of GSL level play. A lot of the MLG pool wouldn't even qualify for Code A.
Learn to read, I'm talking about how the Koreans play while at MLG. MVP, Bomber, DRG, MMA, Losira. They play up to their level, of course it's usually only seen when they go up against each other as the foreigners can't push them to their limits. In some cases the games are better from them. Coca was thought to suck terribly at Zvt back then...owned puma and played good against bomber until the later stages of their games. Boxer did very nicely at Anaheim. Nada looked awesome as well, especially the win against Puma. Rain actually looked good for once at Anaheim.
The Koreans are forced to play better consistently in GSL than they do at MLG to win. They also have to refine their play MUCH MUCH more in GSL (which means a higher level of play if you don't follow that logic). No, CoCa was considered amazing at TvZ ever since he switched to SlayerS. It wasn't because of the big crowd lmfao. You should think before you post things like that.
Why is this so hard for you to understand. The play demonstrated at MLG, and the play demonstrated in the GSL from the koreans (at least against each other) is of similar caliber. You know what they've practiced for in the gsl, the skills they've gained may have, I don't know, come with them to MLG...?
I believe coca actually had just joined slayers around the time he went to MLG, prior to this he didn't show much of his zvt off and it was regarded as quite bad. So no.
Also, who's to say the audience didn't play a factor in their performance. Maybe, just maybe, the incentive from the fans carries more weight than the same amount of money they'd get by advancing to the ro16 by winning this small tournament.
No it's not. The same Korean players demonstrate better play at GSL. They have time to prepare / refine their play, and are not suffering from jet lag or lag (which has been a huge problem at every single MLG at one point or another). This makes the level of play higher. Seriously, are you even reading my posts? So you're basically saying - hey they have been practicing so the level of play must be similar... then right after you shit all over AoL because it's not a legit tournament? Forget reading my posts - are you even reading your own posts before you post them?? Doesn't sound like it.
Also, CoCa was considered quite a good ZvT player even when he was on Zenex. In fact him and Puzzle usually alternated as the ACE for their team, because both of them showed well rounded play against terran. His ZvT obviously got better once he switched to SlayerS, but I don't know what you're talking about when you said his ZvT was bad before. Anyways, I suggest you read what you actually write. Even if they only cared about pleasing the fans (and.... not playing... well?), then AoL would still provide a proper incentive. It's a public tournament that thousands of people around the world watch. Hell, the VoDs are up on GOM just like any GSL match.
EPT
