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On September 26 2011 22:30 Fig wrote:
What people focused on with MC were his timing attacks off of two base, but what they didn't notice was that MC was expanding behind those attacks most games, especially vs Zerg. It wasn't his fault that July could never hold his timings for long enough so that the observer would go back to MC's side and see him with his 3 bases. He played the game the way he thought was his best chance to win, and win he did.
Yeah, when he did those Nexus cancel, ramp forcefield all-ins, he was taking bases behind it right? :p
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okay, the GSL is unforgiving, you can get eliminated in two days. (one day for up/down, and the other on the first day of your code A matches.) Pro players aren't perfect, they will have down days.
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On September 27 2011 00:16 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 22:30 Fig wrote:
What people focused on with MC were his timing attacks off of two base, but what they didn't notice was that MC was expanding behind those attacks most games, especially vs Zerg. It wasn't his fault that July could never hold his timings for long enough so that the observer would go back to MC's side and see him with his 3 bases. He played the game the way he thought was his best chance to win, and win he did.
Yeah, when he did those Nexus cancel, ramp forcefield all-ins, he was taking bases behind it right? :p
Didn't you see all these Nexi MC build in July's base :D
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On September 27 2011 00:16 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 22:30 Fig wrote:
What people focused on with MC were his timing attacks off of two base, but what they didn't notice was that MC was expanding behind those attacks most games, especially vs Zerg. It wasn't his fault that July could never hold his timings for long enough so that the observer would go back to MC's side and see him with his 3 bases. He played the game the way he thought was his best chance to win, and win he did.
Yeah, when he did those Nexus cancel, ramp forcefield all-ins, he was taking bases behind it right? :p
That nexus cancel build hardly counts as a two base timing attack like I was talking about, but kudos for finding a loophole  . Also, he only did that strat once in the GSL and it was a best of 7 no less. (most people cheese at least once in those. The only game July won was a cheese of his own.)
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On September 26 2011 23:42 Czarnodziej wrote:
I have never seen Protoss playing so aggresive before as Sage did. Dem nerdchillz.
It's due to the patch duh.. you'll see protoss using drops and immortal-based timings a lot more often
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I don't even understand how his fans can be so proud of MC's wins against July. At a time when Protoss was absolutely dominating everyone, especially Zerg, every other Zerg was eliminated on ro16, with 3 Protoss in the semi finals, MC won with a bunch of all-ins against the only Zerg still standing. Kudos, great accomplishment!!
July's winning build was actually the only interesting thing about those finals, it was a beautiful multi-pronged attack and it was the first ever Hydra drop in the GSL, and so many players copied that build after that.
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 sC vs.  Sage finals :D Protoss hwaiting!
Hope to also see  YuGiOh make it to Code S so more SlayerS will be in Code S.
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On September 27 2011 00:28 Fig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 00:16 sitromit wrote:On September 26 2011 22:30 Fig wrote:
What people focused on with MC were his timing attacks off of two base, but what they didn't notice was that MC was expanding behind those attacks most games, especially vs Zerg. It wasn't his fault that July could never hold his timings for long enough so that the observer would go back to MC's side and see him with his 3 bases. He played the game the way he thought was his best chance to win, and win he did.
Yeah, when he did those Nexus cancel, ramp forcefield all-ins, he was taking bases behind it right? :p That nexus cancel build hardly counts as a two base timing attack like I was talking about, but kudos for finding a loophole . Also, he only did that strat once in the GSL and it was a best of 7 no less. (most people cheese at least once in those. The only game July won was a cheese of his own.)
Not quite sure if a hydra drop counts as cheese, but your point is valid, it was just a one-time trick that he had come up with just for 1 set in that series.
I think what MrCon mentioned last page is a pretty accurate description of what MC's problem is right now, sure he invented(which also meant he partially relied on) new 2 base timings, but that was almost a year ago, his playstyle changed a lot after his failed run in GSL January against jinro. He focused more on a style with the same kind of pressure and clean timings, but instead making sure that he always had a backup plan, he took a third as he was doing these timings, now sure we ususally never got to see the follow up as his opponents died eighter way. But then after that, when people were figuring out how to play the newer and bigger maps, so did he, he was probably the most macro oriented protoss player, with a tendency to get somewhat greedy.
He definately has shown throughout this year that he dosnt rely on the same timings he did last year, and thats why i think that the point wolf tried to make in the tl interview is inaccurate.
I dont feel that its a matter of playstyle, its just that MC has been playing REALLY sloppy lately, making stupid mistakes, even in terms of control. Which has always been his strongest ability, you just didnt see mistakes like that if you watch some of his GSL march games, hell even the games in open season 3 you would be hard-pressed to find micro mistakes. His playstyle evolved with the rest of the races and players, and i dont think there is anything wrong with it, he is just completely out of shape right now. In the meantime i will just sit here with my sc2 copy signed by Jinro and MC in anticipation for their return.
TLDR: MC's playstyle evolved, and its not the reason why he is irrelevant right now, he just makes silly mistakes that he wouldnt ever do during his peak.
also sage fucking rocks<3
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On September 27 2011 00:28 4of8 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 00:16 sitromit wrote:On September 26 2011 22:30 Fig wrote:
What people focused on with MC were his timing attacks off of two base, but what they didn't notice was that MC was expanding behind those attacks most games, especially vs Zerg. It wasn't his fault that July could never hold his timings for long enough so that the observer would go back to MC's side and see him with his 3 bases. He played the game the way he thought was his best chance to win, and win he did.
Yeah, when he did those Nexus cancel, ramp forcefield all-ins, he was taking bases behind it right? :p Didn't you see all these Nexi MC build in July's base :D
bahahaha. but srsly, what's a "ramp forcefield all-in?"
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On September 27 2011 00:48 j3i wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 00:28 4of8 wrote:On September 27 2011 00:16 sitromit wrote:On September 26 2011 22:30 Fig wrote:
What people focused on with MC were his timing attacks off of two base, but what they didn't notice was that MC was expanding behind those attacks most games, especially vs Zerg. It wasn't his fault that July could never hold his timings for long enough so that the observer would go back to MC's side and see him with his 3 bases. He played the game the way he thought was his best chance to win, and win he did.
Yeah, when he did those Nexus cancel, ramp forcefield all-ins, he was taking bases behind it right? :p Didn't you see all these Nexi MC build in July's base :D bahahaha. but srsly, what's a "ramp forcefield all-in?"
It's the kind of Protoss "skill" where they cancel their nexus and 4 gate while forcefielding the ramp of the Zerg, so he can't even reinforce, while the Toss keeps warping in units at their heart's content from their conveniently placed nearby pylons. It takes an extreme amount of skill. You have to keep pressing "F"!
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On September 27 2011 00:41 devPLEASE wrote:sC vs. Sage finals :D Protoss hwaiting! Hope to also see YuGiOh make it to Code S so more SlayerS will be in Code S.
sC kind of lost 0:2 to gumiho...
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On September 27 2011 00:48 j3i wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 00:28 4of8 wrote:On September 27 2011 00:16 sitromit wrote:On September 26 2011 22:30 Fig wrote:
What people focused on with MC were his timing attacks off of two base, but what they didn't notice was that MC was expanding behind those attacks most games, especially vs Zerg. It wasn't his fault that July could never hold his timings for long enough so that the observer would go back to MC's side and see him with his 3 bases. He played the game the way he thought was his best chance to win, and win he did.
Yeah, when he did those Nexus cancel, ramp forcefield all-ins, he was taking bases behind it right? :p Didn't you see all these Nexi MC build in July's base :D bahahaha. but srsly, what's a "ramp forcefield all-in?"
Probably one where you go to the enemy's main with a warp prism containing sentries with enough energy to forcefield the ramp to the main from the inside while zealots and/or DTs wreak havoc.
I've seen a lot of Protoss do that before, not so much now (Choya did one on his last Code A run).
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On September 27 2011 00:37 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 23:42 Czarnodziej wrote:
I have never seen Protoss playing so aggresive before as Sage did. Dem nerdchillz. It's due to the patch duh.. you'll see protoss using drops and immortal-based timings a lot more often
Which of course is great because these styles are both harder to execute and more enjoyable to watch than the passive deathball styles.
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I'm pretty sure the ramp forcefield all-in that he's referring to is when he would 4-gate with loads of sentries, attack the natural and forcefield the ramp over and over again to prevent both escape into and reinforcements from the main.
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wow so many surprises today!
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On September 27 2011 00:58 KanoCoke wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 00:48 j3i wrote:On September 27 2011 00:28 4of8 wrote:On September 27 2011 00:16 sitromit wrote:On September 26 2011 22:30 Fig wrote:
What people focused on with MC were his timing attacks off of two base, but what they didn't notice was that MC was expanding behind those attacks most games, especially vs Zerg. It wasn't his fault that July could never hold his timings for long enough so that the observer would go back to MC's side and see him with his 3 bases. He played the game the way he thought was his best chance to win, and win he did.
Yeah, when he did those Nexus cancel, ramp forcefield all-ins, he was taking bases behind it right? :p Didn't you see all these Nexi MC build in July's base :D bahahaha. but srsly, what's a "ramp forcefield all-in?" Probably one where you go to the enemy's main with a warp prism containing sentries with enough energy to forcefield the ramp to the main from the inside while zealots and/or DTs wreak havoc. I've seen a lot of Protoss do that before, not so much now (Choya did one on his last Code A run).
Now most zerg builds involve a quick 3rd, so it's not effective anymore.
Anyway, Azuroz has explained well what I think about MC currently 
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On September 27 2011 01:03 MrSalamandra wrote:
I'm pretty sure the ramp forcefield all-in that he's referring to is when he would 4-gate with loads of sentries, attack the natural and forcefield the ramp over and over again to prevent both escape into and reinforcements from the main.
Oh, I believe I've seen a refined version of that with a robo and stargate against Terran by Sage where he has sentries, stalkers, zealots, observers,and immortals guarding the ramp while phoenixes or void rays pick off any drop attempts, effectively hard-containing the Terran player while he expands freely. I believe he used it against MVPsC in the team league once (and against PuMa in the iCCup weeklies back then).
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On September 27 2011 01:12 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 00:58 KanoCoke wrote:On September 27 2011 00:48 j3i wrote:On September 27 2011 00:28 4of8 wrote:On September 27 2011 00:16 sitromit wrote:On September 26 2011 22:30 Fig wrote:
What people focused on with MC were his timing attacks off of two base, but what they didn't notice was that MC was expanding behind those attacks most games, especially vs Zerg. It wasn't his fault that July could never hold his timings for long enough so that the observer would go back to MC's side and see him with his 3 bases. He played the game the way he thought was his best chance to win, and win he did.
Yeah, when he did those Nexus cancel, ramp forcefield all-ins, he was taking bases behind it right? :p Didn't you see all these Nexi MC build in July's base :D bahahaha. but srsly, what's a "ramp forcefield all-in?" Probably one where you go to the enemy's main with a warp prism containing sentries with enough energy to forcefield the ramp to the main from the inside while zealots and/or DTs wreak havoc. I've seen a lot of Protoss do that before, not so much now (Choya did one on his last Code A run). Now most zerg builds involve a quick 3rd, so it's not effective anymore. Anyway, Azuroz has explained well what I think about MC currently
Well, it's been converted into the very effective warp prism charge zealot/HT storm harass by HerO though, so it lives on I guess.
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i really liked sage vs lucky but i find it so difficult to open DTs, it seems very fragile
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Sage is a freaking boss.
I want to see him vZ against a good Zerg though.
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EPT
