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On September 26 2011 20:57 Benzzro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 20:48 Probe1 wrote:
When jumping to defend MC consider the tense you are writing in. Sure I completely agree with every compliment there is about MC back in the day. Well people are being hypocritical, they're saying Sage is the next Protoss hero and results don't matter, when everyone is calling MC shit just because he hasn't been posting results lately, pretty sure Sage hasn't even qualified for the GSL yet? Didn't he get a free spot in Code A or something? Not saying he doesn't deserve, he's easily one of the best Protoss in the world. MC still holds one of the highest win/loss ratio for a Protoss on the KR ladder, I'm sure we'll be seeing him again soon enough
I'm calling MC shit because his games are no longer impressive. He innovated a lot of new timings, and that was good enough to make Toss look OP for a couple months, but now that everyone's figured out his 4/6/8 gate timings he has nothing to fall back on. His style was impressive while it lasted but it wasn't going to last for long or be that impressive. I think MC will continue to look bad until he figures out how to win based on strats that aren't timings.
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On September 26 2011 21:58 Soleron wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 21:43 -y0shi- wrote:On September 26 2011 20:40 HaruRH wrote:On September 26 2011 20:36 -y0shi- wrote:
Sage played nice, yes, but cant people stop hyping these games soo much? THeyy were good games but e.g. if the zegr gets one overseer instead of relying on spores for detection all of this wont work anymore. So its nothing that will really see a ton of play in the future IMO.
The only really inspriing thing for me were those pylon forcefields xD No, you got it wrong. He did some sort of build that Zerg usually faces as 6gate pressure, 7 gate all-in etc. Unless scouted, the Zerg would almost most likely not bet on a DT attack as DT attacks are usually built on 1 base. Zerg did get overseers bro. However, his tactics made sure that 1 overseer was never enough. The beauty of the DT attack. Most of the decisions made by Sage in these games were carefully calculated, such as the immediate mass immortal production upon scouting out the roach warren even when the Zerg did not build a single roach yet. He anticipated those attacks coming rather than reacting to those attacks. Not saying I know better, just wondering. Im talking about game 1 especially. Lucky HAD his lair up, the problem was that he had no overseers and relied on spores for detection. Then Sage hit him with mass dts and killed his lair. But what if Lucky wouldve gotten a single overseer instead of that sporoe? Idk, seemed gimicky, mass dts, hope your opponent doesnt have an overseer out and snipe his lair. If things like this force Zergs to have an overseer per base every single game, that's a huge metagame win for Protoss. It shows up that Zergs were playing risky before by not getting it, and gaining an advantage they shouldn't have if P plays correctly.
Yeah, well remember brood war? Protoss uses DTs like mad in bw, and there every overlord is a detector. I think it's only a matter of time before every protoss starts to use a lot of DTs vs Zerg, and just uses blink stalkers/phoenix to pick of the overseers.
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Finally I had time to read the TL Midway and the Wolf interview, good job here ! Good questions to Wolf, in fact I would have liked a longer interview as his answers were interesting.
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These guys insulting MC are fair weather fans AKA bandwagonners.
A true Protoss fan would cheer for the new champion, while acknowledging the giants whose shoulders they stand on. I mean, what would have been iloveoov without Boxer? or Fantasy without these two?
MC did so much for his race, and so much more for the foreign community its a shame he's been getting so much shit when he needs support the most.
Go Sage btw!
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On September 26 2011 20:57 Benzzro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 20:48 Probe1 wrote:
When jumping to defend MC consider the tense you are writing in. Sure I completely agree with every compliment there is about MC back in the day. Well people are being hypocritical, they're saying Sage is the next Protoss hero and results don't matter, when everyone is calling MC shit just because he hasn't been posting results lately, pretty sure Sage hasn't even qualified for the GSL yet? Didn't he get a free spot in Code A or something? Not saying he doesn't deserve, he's easily one of the best Protoss in the world. MC still holds one of the highest win/loss ratio for a Protoss on the KR ladder, I'm sure we'll be seeing him again soon enough
Oh my god nothing angers me more than this.
Artosis didn't know what the fuck he was talking about on State of the Game and gave out this piece of nonsense, now everyone is believing it. He didn't even know Sage had qualified, and he thinks he is in touch with the Korean scene.
Sage qualified from Code B fair and square, beating ST_Ace to get in. Look it up.
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On September 26 2011 22:10 BigKahunaBurger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 20:57 Benzzro wrote:On September 26 2011 20:48 Probe1 wrote:
When jumping to defend MC consider the tense you are writing in. Sure I completely agree with every compliment there is about MC back in the day. Well people are being hypocritical, they're saying Sage is the next Protoss hero and results don't matter, when everyone is calling MC shit just because he hasn't been posting results lately, pretty sure Sage hasn't even qualified for the GSL yet? Didn't he get a free spot in Code A or something? Not saying he doesn't deserve, he's easily one of the best Protoss in the world. MC still holds one of the highest win/loss ratio for a Protoss on the KR ladder, I'm sure we'll be seeing him again soon enough Oh my god nothing angers me more than this. Artosis didn't know what the fuck he was talking about on State of the Game and gave out this piece of nonsense, now everyone is believing it. He didn't even know Sage had qualified, and he thinks he is in touch with the Korean scene. Sage qualified from Code B fair and square, beating ST_Ace to get in. Look it up.
This is reason 1 why I stopped watching SotG (after only a few episodes, granted).
Reason 2? I didn't have 4 hours to watch people talk.
Edit: To make it clear, I didn't see this episode but from what I watched it was like theorycrafting with the pros. I liked Tyler. Inc was on and off. The rest were.. meh. Not my cup of tea.
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On September 26 2011 22:10 BigKahunaBurger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 20:57 Benzzro wrote:On September 26 2011 20:48 Probe1 wrote:
When jumping to defend MC consider the tense you are writing in. Sure I completely agree with every compliment there is about MC back in the day. Well people are being hypocritical, they're saying Sage is the next Protoss hero and results don't matter, when everyone is calling MC shit just because he hasn't been posting results lately, pretty sure Sage hasn't even qualified for the GSL yet? Didn't he get a free spot in Code A or something? Not saying he doesn't deserve, he's easily one of the best Protoss in the world. MC still holds one of the highest win/loss ratio for a Protoss on the KR ladder, I'm sure we'll be seeing him again soon enough Oh my god nothing angers me more than this. Artosis didn't know what the fuck he was talking about on State of the Game and gave out this piece of nonsense, now everyone is believing it. He didn't even know Sage had qualified, and he thinks he is in touch with the Korean scene. Sage qualified from Code B fair and square, beating ST_Ace to get in. Look it up.
There seriously needs to be a fucking spotlighted post about this or something.
I can't believe Artosis said "IM CERTAIN SAGE GOT KNOCKED OUT OF THE QUALIFIERS"
Probably vacationing too hard. It would take less than 3 seconds to look at the qualifiers and see Sage qualified fair and square...
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On September 26 2011 22:10 BigKahunaBurger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 20:57 Benzzro wrote:On September 26 2011 20:48 Probe1 wrote:
When jumping to defend MC consider the tense you are writing in. Sure I completely agree with every compliment there is about MC back in the day. Well people are being hypocritical, they're saying Sage is the next Protoss hero and results don't matter, when everyone is calling MC shit just because he hasn't been posting results lately, pretty sure Sage hasn't even qualified for the GSL yet? Didn't he get a free spot in Code A or something? Not saying he doesn't deserve, he's easily one of the best Protoss in the world. MC still holds one of the highest win/loss ratio for a Protoss on the KR ladder, I'm sure we'll be seeing him again soon enough Oh my god nothing angers me more than this. Artosis didn't know what the fuck he was talking about on State of the Game and gave out this piece of nonsense, now everyone is believing it. He didn't even know Sage had qualified, and he thinks he is in touch with the Korean scene. Sage qualified from Code B fair and square, beating ST_Ace to get in. Look it up.
yeah thats pretty BS, one should just check liquipedia or stuff before one utters facts on a public show. Regardless, 1 SOTG is 4 hours long? Omg, who has the amount of time to watch that?
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One thing that confuses me though is Sages overall record. He has played pretty much nothing but great opponents but he has more losses then you would expect from the level of play he has shown in both the team league and now code A. Is it the format? Has he gotten better? Luck in code a and team league or bad luck in the online tournaments? I don't get it. I even watched some of those games vs puma where he looked amazing then too.
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On September 26 2011 07:43 danzhang wrote:sc vs JYP finals please 
nice guess:d
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On September 26 2011 22:21 poorcloud wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 22:10 BigKahunaBurger wrote:On September 26 2011 20:57 Benzzro wrote:On September 26 2011 20:48 Probe1 wrote:
When jumping to defend MC consider the tense you are writing in. Sure I completely agree with every compliment there is about MC back in the day. Well people are being hypocritical, they're saying Sage is the next Protoss hero and results don't matter, when everyone is calling MC shit just because he hasn't been posting results lately, pretty sure Sage hasn't even qualified for the GSL yet? Didn't he get a free spot in Code A or something? Not saying he doesn't deserve, he's easily one of the best Protoss in the world. MC still holds one of the highest win/loss ratio for a Protoss on the KR ladder, I'm sure we'll be seeing him again soon enough Oh my god nothing angers me more than this. Artosis didn't know what the fuck he was talking about on State of the Game and gave out this piece of nonsense, now everyone is believing it. He didn't even know Sage had qualified, and he thinks he is in touch with the Korean scene. Sage qualified from Code B fair and square, beating ST_Ace to get in. Look it up. yeah thats pretty BS, one should just check liquipedia or stuff before one utters facts on a public show. Regardless, 1 SOTG is 4 hours long? Omg, who has the amount of time to watch that?
No episode of SoTG has been 4 hours, most are about half of that.
And wow Sage is quite sick.
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On September 26 2011 22:10 BigKahunaBurger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 20:57 Benzzro wrote:On September 26 2011 20:48 Probe1 wrote:
When jumping to defend MC consider the tense you are writing in. Sure I completely agree with every compliment there is about MC back in the day. Well people are being hypocritical, they're saying Sage is the next Protoss hero and results don't matter, when everyone is calling MC shit just because he hasn't been posting results lately, pretty sure Sage hasn't even qualified for the GSL yet? Didn't he get a free spot in Code A or something? Not saying he doesn't deserve, he's easily one of the best Protoss in the world. MC still holds one of the highest win/loss ratio for a Protoss on the KR ladder, I'm sure we'll be seeing him again soon enough Oh my god nothing angers me more than this. Artosis didn't know what the fuck he was talking about on State of the Game and gave out this piece of nonsense, now everyone is believing it. He didn't even know Sage had qualified, and he thinks he is in touch with the Korean scene. Sage qualified from Code B fair and square, beating ST_Ace to get in. Look it up.
yeah~ I really don't know how to phrase this without sounding sarcastic, but is there a possibility that tastosis might be losing a bit of their passion for SC2 (or GSL)? I mean, they still sound enthusiastic and such casting code S games, but its clear they don't follow GSL as closely as they once did, and that makes me a bit sad =(
I realize they don't cast even half of the GSL games now, still, I feel like they could spend more time following the scene closer - its quite obvious that they don't pay much attention to code A/up&down matches. I liked it more back when Tastosis knew pretty much all the players in GSL, they would be able to talk about different players play styles, the up & comers and such; which they don't/can't anymore for some of the lesser known players.
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I feel the need to defend MC against some people. You seem to forget that people everywhere were complaining about the Protoss race being OP solely because of MC. Zergs and terrans (and protosses) were scared to play against him. Those were the days. During that time he was so far ahead of everyone else playing the game. What people focused on with MC were his timing attacks off of two base, but what they didn't notice was that MC was expanding behind those attacks most games, especially vs Zerg. It wasn't his fault that July could never hold his timings for long enough so that the observer would go back to MC's side and see him with his 3 bases. He played the game the way he thought was his best chance to win, and win he did.
But for all he did to advance the protoss race, he helped zergs and terrans just as much, if not more! By showcasing just how powerful Toss timings could be at such an early stage in the game, he put pressure on the other races to develop ways to stop them. Compare it to the discovery of muta micro in BroodWar TvZ. That made terrans so much better at controlling their marines to defend against such a potent threat. MCs imba forcefields and blink stalkers forced the other races to evolve much more quickly than if MC was not around. He singlehandedly advanced the game much farther than I bet even Blizzard expected in the first year. He may be doing poorly at the moment, but that doesn't mean he's a one trick pony. He will be back, and he will show us all more amazing things.
That said I am really enjoying watching Sage, HerO, and JYP innovate. They are making toss fun to watch again!
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United Kingdom38256 Posts
On September 26 2011 22:21 Maghetti wrote:
One thing that confuses me though is Sages overall record. He has played pretty much nothing but great opponents but he has more losses then you would expect from the level of play he has shown in both the team league and now code A. Is it the format? Has he gotten better? Luck in code a and team league or bad luck in the online tournaments? I don't get it. I even watched some of those games vs puma where he looked amazing then too.
His KR weeklies have been characterised by a lot of funky play (an almost religious devotion to trying to make a FE work in PvP for instance). It's my uninformed opinion that he experiments a lot, but that in serious tournament play he breaks out the things that he's got tried and tested properly.
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On September 26 2011 22:32 Asha` wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 22:21 Maghetti wrote:
One thing that confuses me though is Sages overall record. He has played pretty much nothing but great opponents but he has more losses then you would expect from the level of play he has shown in both the team league and now code A. Is it the format? Has he gotten better? Luck in code a and team league or bad luck in the online tournaments? I don't get it. I even watched some of those games vs puma where he looked amazing then too. His KR weeklies have been characterised by a lot of funky play (an almost religious devotion to trying to make a FE work in PvP for instance). It's my uninformed opinion that he experiments a lot, but that in serious tournament play he breaks out the things that he's got tried and tested properly.
Yeah I kept facepalming whenever I saw him 1 gate FE in PvP ><, he also likes to cheese in PvP a lot too.
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On September 26 2011 22:24 Valikyr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 22:21 poorcloud wrote:On September 26 2011 22:10 BigKahunaBurger wrote:On September 26 2011 20:57 Benzzro wrote:On September 26 2011 20:48 Probe1 wrote:
When jumping to defend MC consider the tense you are writing in. Sure I completely agree with every compliment there is about MC back in the day. Well people are being hypocritical, they're saying Sage is the next Protoss hero and results don't matter, when everyone is calling MC shit just because he hasn't been posting results lately, pretty sure Sage hasn't even qualified for the GSL yet? Didn't he get a free spot in Code A or something? Not saying he doesn't deserve, he's easily one of the best Protoss in the world. MC still holds one of the highest win/loss ratio for a Protoss on the KR ladder, I'm sure we'll be seeing him again soon enough Oh my god nothing angers me more than this. Artosis didn't know what the fuck he was talking about on State of the Game and gave out this piece of nonsense, now everyone is believing it. He didn't even know Sage had qualified, and he thinks he is in touch with the Korean scene. Sage qualified from Code B fair and square, beating ST_Ace to get in. Look it up. yeah thats pretty BS, one should just check liquipedia or stuff before one utters facts on a public show. Regardless, 1 SOTG is 4 hours long? Omg, who has the amount of time to watch that? No episode of SoTG has been 4 hours, most are about half of that. And wow Sage is quite sick.
To be honest, with the little break in the middle and the pregame, it isn't that far off 3 hours, which is still a very long time to be sitting at your computer or listening to your iPod if it's just people laughing at Incontrol zooming in his camera for the 4th time or whatnot.
On September 26 2011 22:29 Zealot Lord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 22:10 BigKahunaBurger wrote:On September 26 2011 20:57 Benzzro wrote:On September 26 2011 20:48 Probe1 wrote:
When jumping to defend MC consider the tense you are writing in. Sure I completely agree with every compliment there is about MC back in the day. Well people are being hypocritical, they're saying Sage is the next Protoss hero and results don't matter, when everyone is calling MC shit just because he hasn't been posting results lately, pretty sure Sage hasn't even qualified for the GSL yet? Didn't he get a free spot in Code A or something? Not saying he doesn't deserve, he's easily one of the best Protoss in the world. MC still holds one of the highest win/loss ratio for a Protoss on the KR ladder, I'm sure we'll be seeing him again soon enough Oh my god nothing angers me more than this. Artosis didn't know what the fuck he was talking about on State of the Game and gave out this piece of nonsense, now everyone is believing it. He didn't even know Sage had qualified, and he thinks he is in touch with the Korean scene. Sage qualified from Code B fair and square, beating ST_Ace to get in. Look it up. yeah~ I really don't know how to phrase this without sounding sarcastic, but is there a possibility that tastosis might be losing a bit of their passion for SC2? I mean, they still sound enthusiastic and such casting code S games, but its clear they don't follow GSL as closely as they once did, and that makes me a bit sad =( I realize they don't cast even half of the GSL games now, still, I feel like they could spend more time following the scene closer - its quite obvious that they don't pay much attention to code A/up&down matches. I liked it more back when Tastosis knew pretty much all the players in GSL, they would be able to talk about different players play styles and such; which they don't/can't anymore for some of the lesser known players.
I understand exactly where you're coming from, but whenever someone seems to mention Tastosis losing their passion, the bandwagoners come from all over jumping to defend them. Oh no! You're hurting e-sports by criticizing these casters! Who ever said they were the golden standard of casting? If they aren't performing, they should be subject to scrutiny. And it is exactly as you say, they simply dont seem as passionate about the game or the korean scene in general. Obviously it's hard to get invested into lots of TvT's, but you can at least stay on subject without having to divert to a niche SNES game you both used to play.
Wolf and Doa seem to be on point most of the time and seem to know the players at a more in-depth level. I understand Tastosis need a break (although WolfDoaTrap's schedule dwarfs theirs these days) from time to time, but when they used to cast Code S AND Code A, you got a sense that they were able to comment on all the players and all the rising stars. But now it seems like they only concern themselves with their job, which is Code S. This doesn't seem passionate at all.
I'll be derided for this, and Tasteless will even make jokes about it "Those internet nerds say we're losing our passion". To be honest, I'll just cringe each time he says it, because there's a lot of truth to it unfortunately.
If you want us to stop calling you passionless, start showing some enthusiasm in your jobs.
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On September 26 2011 22:29 Zealot Lord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 22:10 BigKahunaBurger wrote:On September 26 2011 20:57 Benzzro wrote:On September 26 2011 20:48 Probe1 wrote:
When jumping to defend MC consider the tense you are writing in. Sure I completely agree with every compliment there is about MC back in the day. Well people are being hypocritical, they're saying Sage is the next Protoss hero and results don't matter, when everyone is calling MC shit just because he hasn't been posting results lately, pretty sure Sage hasn't even qualified for the GSL yet? Didn't he get a free spot in Code A or something? Not saying he doesn't deserve, he's easily one of the best Protoss in the world. MC still holds one of the highest win/loss ratio for a Protoss on the KR ladder, I'm sure we'll be seeing him again soon enough Oh my god nothing angers me more than this. Artosis didn't know what the fuck he was talking about on State of the Game and gave out this piece of nonsense, now everyone is believing it. He didn't even know Sage had qualified, and he thinks he is in touch with the Korean scene. Sage qualified from Code B fair and square, beating ST_Ace to get in. Look it up. yeah~ I really don't know how to phrase this without sounding sarcastic, but is there a possibility that tastosis might be losing a bit of their passion for SC2 (or GSL)? I mean, they still sound enthusiastic and such casting code S games, but its clear they don't follow GSL as closely as they once did, and that makes me a bit sad =( I realize they don't cast even half of the GSL games now, still, I feel like they could spend more time following the scene closer - its quite obvious that they don't pay much attention to code A/up&down matches. I liked it more back when Tastosis knew pretty much all the players in GSL, they would be able to talk about different players play styles, the up & comers and such; which they don't/can't anymore for some of the lesser known players.
Well to be honest i agree. I find wolf or maybe even doatrap (shockingly i know) knows more about all the new korean up & comers compared to tastosis.
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I'll never forgive moletrap for writing off seal one time. Of course I don't care since that one time seal pulled an all kill.
I <3 Seal.
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On September 26 2011 22:40 Probe1 wrote:
I'll never forgive moletrap for writing off seal one time. Of course I don't care since that one time seal pulled an all kill.
I <3 Seal.
DAT creep spread.
Here's to Seal qualifying for GSL Dec.
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On September 26 2011 22:14 Probe1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 22:10 BigKahunaBurger wrote:On September 26 2011 20:57 Benzzro wrote:On September 26 2011 20:48 Probe1 wrote:
When jumping to defend MC consider the tense you are writing in. Sure I completely agree with every compliment there is about MC back in the day. Well people are being hypocritical, they're saying Sage is the next Protoss hero and results don't matter, when everyone is calling MC shit just because he hasn't been posting results lately, pretty sure Sage hasn't even qualified for the GSL yet? Didn't he get a free spot in Code A or something? Not saying he doesn't deserve, he's easily one of the best Protoss in the world. MC still holds one of the highest win/loss ratio for a Protoss on the KR ladder, I'm sure we'll be seeing him again soon enough Oh my god nothing angers me more than this. Artosis didn't know what the fuck he was talking about on State of the Game and gave out this piece of nonsense, now everyone is believing it. He didn't even know Sage had qualified, and he thinks he is in touch with the Korean scene. Sage qualified from Code B fair and square, beating ST_Ace to get in. Look it up. This is reason 1 why I stopped watching SotG (after only a few episodes, granted). Reason 2? I didn't have 4 hours to watch people talk. Edit: To make it clear, I didn't see this episode but from what I watched it was like theorycrafting with the pros. I liked Tyler. Inc was on and off. The rest were.. meh. Not my cup of tea.
I still like STOG, but since MLG is running the show I don't like it as much as I liked it before.
It's hard to listen to sotg while being an european AND a GSL fan xD
You'll never hear anything even slightly positive about the GSL in sotg, which could be ok, but the worst is that their opinions are usually based on wrong facts, even with Artosis being here. Which accredit the "passion" thesis by the way xD
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EPT
