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On October 29 2011 16:56 IMRandom wrote:
MVP > MMA. The GSL Oct final was result of MMA's superior planning and practise. While tastosis were favouring MVP for the win, the korean casters were favouring MMA, because they've seen how much MMA practised while MVP was busy playing/preparing for blizzcon.
Also, MVP's superb in all matchups. MMA isn't
Saying that MVP is superb at TvP is a little sketch.
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On October 29 2011 16:56 IMRandom wrote:
MVP > MMA. The GSL Oct final was result of MMA's superior planning and practise. While tastosis were favouring MVP for the win, the korean casters were favouring MMA, because they've seen how much MMA practised while MVP was busy playing/preparing for blizzcon.
Also, MVP's superb in all matchups. MMA isn't
Indeed, in those GSL Final matches, almost all 5 games started with an advantage for MMA. Practice and strategy preparation definitely paid off there.
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On October 29 2011 16:59 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 16:56 IMRandom wrote:
MVP > MMA. The GSL Oct final was result of MMA's superior planning and practise. While tastosis were favouring MVP for the win, the korean casters were favouring MMA, because they've seen how much MMA practised while MVP was busy playing/preparing for blizzcon.
Also, MVP's superb in all matchups. MMA isn't Saying that MVP is superb at TvP is a little sketch.
That was way back before GSL World chapionships. He's now rock solid in all matchups. He hasn't lost to anyone except MVPTails in gstl since APRIL.
MMA's tvp's winrate in gsl is barely 50% and his wins mostly come from bo1 gstl against lesser known players
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On October 29 2011 17:07 IMRandom wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 16:59 babylon wrote:On October 29 2011 16:56 IMRandom wrote:
MVP > MMA. The GSL Oct final was result of MMA's superior planning and practise. While tastosis were favouring MVP for the win, the korean casters were favouring MMA, because they've seen how much MMA practised while MVP was busy playing/preparing for blizzcon.
Also, MVP's superb in all matchups. MMA isn't Saying that MVP is superb at TvP is a little sketch. That was way back before GSL World chapionships. He's now rock solid in all matchups. He hasn't lost to anyone except MVPTails in gstl since APRIL. MMA's tvp's winrate in gsl is barely 50% and his wins mostly come from bo1 gstl against lesser known players
MMA's TvP is horrible, but MVP's isn't notable either; he became "rock-solid" at TvP when Protoss started getting shit on by almost every Terran out there. The only TvPs that were any good at all before the Sad Zealot era were Polt's, Bomber's, and Puma's, and they're still the only ones I'd consider "good" at the match-up (though I guess Puma's has evolved into a more "abusive" style, so you may/may not want to omit him now). Taeja's TvP is good as well, but he hasn't quite proven himself yet.
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On October 29 2011 17:14 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 17:07 IMRandom wrote:On October 29 2011 16:59 babylon wrote:On October 29 2011 16:56 IMRandom wrote:
MVP > MMA. The GSL Oct final was result of MMA's superior planning and practise. While tastosis were favouring MVP for the win, the korean casters were favouring MMA, because they've seen how much MMA practised while MVP was busy playing/preparing for blizzcon.
Also, MVP's superb in all matchups. MMA isn't Saying that MVP is superb at TvP is a little sketch. That was way back before GSL World chapionships. He's now rock solid in all matchups. He hasn't lost to anyone except MVPTails in gstl since APRIL. MMA's tvp's winrate in gsl is barely 50% and his wins mostly come from bo1 gstl against lesser known players MMA's TvP is horrible, but MVP's isn't notable either; he became "rock-solid" at TvP when Protoss started getting shit on by almost every Terran out there. The only TvPs that were any good at all before the Sad Zealot era were Polt's, Bomber's, and Puma's, and they're still the only ones I'd consider "good" at the match-up (though I guess Puma's has evolved into a more "abusive" style, so you may/may not want to omit him now). Taeja's TvP is good as well, but he hasn't quite proven himself yet.
Puma sucks, Taeja says Protoss is his worst MU and the race is OP, and Polt's TvP is godly, but he hasn't played a TvP for a while now.
People can actually improve their weak MU. Just because his TvP cause him to drop to code a 8 MONTHS ago doesn't mean he's not rock solid now.
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On October 29 2011 17:32 IMRandom wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 17:14 babylon wrote:On October 29 2011 17:07 IMRandom wrote:On October 29 2011 16:59 babylon wrote:On October 29 2011 16:56 IMRandom wrote:
MVP > MMA. The GSL Oct final was result of MMA's superior planning and practise. While tastosis were favouring MVP for the win, the korean casters were favouring MMA, because they've seen how much MMA practised while MVP was busy playing/preparing for blizzcon.
Also, MVP's superb in all matchups. MMA isn't Saying that MVP is superb at TvP is a little sketch. That was way back before GSL World chapionships. He's now rock solid in all matchups. He hasn't lost to anyone except MVPTails in gstl since APRIL. MMA's tvp's winrate in gsl is barely 50% and his wins mostly come from bo1 gstl against lesser known players MMA's TvP is horrible, but MVP's isn't notable either; he became "rock-solid" at TvP when Protoss started getting shit on by almost every Terran out there. The only TvPs that were any good at all before the Sad Zealot era were Polt's, Bomber's, and Puma's, and they're still the only ones I'd consider "good" at the match-up (though I guess Puma's has evolved into a more "abusive" style, so you may/may not want to omit him now). Taeja's TvP is good as well, but he hasn't quite proven himself yet. Puma sucks, Taeja says Protoss is his worst MU and the race is OP, and Polt's TvP is godly, but he hasn't played a TvP for a while now. People can actually improve their weak MU. Just because his TvP cause him to drop to code a 8 MONTHS ago doesn't mean he's not rock solid now.
Taeja whines about TvP constantly, but if you've watched any of his TvP games in the Korean Weekly, he's ridiculous at the match-up. I'd actually say his TvZ is worse than his TvP, but he's one of the few Terrans solid against all races.
MVP's TvP has improved from when he was in Code A, but there's not much evidence to suggest it's at all "rock-solid," especially seeing as how all he's done is play TvT day-in and day-out. The last TvP we saw was vs. Tails, which he lost. Before that, he won against a jetlagged and worn-down HuK (who played like shit) and a slumping MC. And before that, he dropped a game to Kiwi at MLG. That isn't "rock-solid." If you're going to drop a game to a Protoss, you'd better drop it to one who's superb at PvT at the very least.
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guys, can i rewatch yesterdays korean blizzard invitational matches anywhere? if yes please give me link.
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On October 29 2011 17:41 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 17:32 IMRandom wrote:On October 29 2011 17:14 babylon wrote:On October 29 2011 17:07 IMRandom wrote:On October 29 2011 16:59 babylon wrote:On October 29 2011 16:56 IMRandom wrote:
MVP > MMA. The GSL Oct final was result of MMA's superior planning and practise. While tastosis were favouring MVP for the win, the korean casters were favouring MMA, because they've seen how much MMA practised while MVP was busy playing/preparing for blizzcon.
Also, MVP's superb in all matchups. MMA isn't Saying that MVP is superb at TvP is a little sketch. That was way back before GSL World chapionships. He's now rock solid in all matchups. He hasn't lost to anyone except MVPTails in gstl since APRIL. MMA's tvp's winrate in gsl is barely 50% and his wins mostly come from bo1 gstl against lesser known players MMA's TvP is horrible, but MVP's isn't notable either; he became "rock-solid" at TvP when Protoss started getting shit on by almost every Terran out there. The only TvPs that were any good at all before the Sad Zealot era were Polt's, Bomber's, and Puma's, and they're still the only ones I'd consider "good" at the match-up (though I guess Puma's has evolved into a more "abusive" style, so you may/may not want to omit him now). Taeja's TvP is good as well, but he hasn't quite proven himself yet. Puma sucks, Taeja says Protoss is his worst MU and the race is OP, and Polt's TvP is godly, but he hasn't played a TvP for a while now. People can actually improve their weak MU. Just because his TvP cause him to drop to code a 8 MONTHS ago doesn't mean he's not rock solid now. Taeja whines about TvP constantly, but if you've watched any of his TvP games in the Korean Weekly, he's ridiculous at the match-up. I'd actually say his TvZ is worse than his TvP, but he's one of the few Terrans solid against all races. MVP's TvP has improved from when he was in Code A, but there's not much evidence to suggest it's at all "rock-solid," especially seeing as how all he's done is play TvT day-in and day-out. The last TvP we saw was vs. Tails, which he lost. Before that, he won against a jetlagged and worn-down HuK (who played like shit) and a slumping MC. And before that, he dropped a game to Kiwi at MLG. That isn't "rock-solid." If you're going to drop a game to a Protoss, you'd better drop it to one who's superb at PvT at the very least.
There's no evidence to suggest it isn't "rock-solid", either. Hardly any data to go on, he's mostly played TvT and TvZ lately. Even MMA who historically is bad against protoss, may be good at the matchup too, now. Even if Mvp loses his next game against protoss, there's still not enough data, so much stuff can change. You make it sound like Terran is so imbalanced that if you have a good TvP you should never lose, which isn't the case.
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On October 29 2011 18:07 AxionSteel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 17:41 babylon wrote:On October 29 2011 17:32 IMRandom wrote:On October 29 2011 17:14 babylon wrote:On October 29 2011 17:07 IMRandom wrote:On October 29 2011 16:59 babylon wrote:On October 29 2011 16:56 IMRandom wrote:
MVP > MMA. The GSL Oct final was result of MMA's superior planning and practise. While tastosis were favouring MVP for the win, the korean casters were favouring MMA, because they've seen how much MMA practised while MVP was busy playing/preparing for blizzcon.
Also, MVP's superb in all matchups. MMA isn't Saying that MVP is superb at TvP is a little sketch. That was way back before GSL World chapionships. He's now rock solid in all matchups. He hasn't lost to anyone except MVPTails in gstl since APRIL. MMA's tvp's winrate in gsl is barely 50% and his wins mostly come from bo1 gstl against lesser known players MMA's TvP is horrible, but MVP's isn't notable either; he became "rock-solid" at TvP when Protoss started getting shit on by almost every Terran out there. The only TvPs that were any good at all before the Sad Zealot era were Polt's, Bomber's, and Puma's, and they're still the only ones I'd consider "good" at the match-up (though I guess Puma's has evolved into a more "abusive" style, so you may/may not want to omit him now). Taeja's TvP is good as well, but he hasn't quite proven himself yet. Puma sucks, Taeja says Protoss is his worst MU and the race is OP, and Polt's TvP is godly, but he hasn't played a TvP for a while now. People can actually improve their weak MU. Just because his TvP cause him to drop to code a 8 MONTHS ago doesn't mean he's not rock solid now. Taeja whines about TvP constantly, but if you've watched any of his TvP games in the Korean Weekly, he's ridiculous at the match-up. I'd actually say his TvZ is worse than his TvP, but he's one of the few Terrans solid against all races. MVP's TvP has improved from when he was in Code A, but there's not much evidence to suggest it's at all "rock-solid," especially seeing as how all he's done is play TvT day-in and day-out. The last TvP we saw was vs. Tails, which he lost. Before that, he won against a jetlagged and worn-down HuK (who played like shit) and a slumping MC. And before that, he dropped a game to Kiwi at MLG. That isn't "rock-solid." If you're going to drop a game to a Protoss, you'd better drop it to one who's superb at PvT at the very least. There's no evidence to suggest it isn't "rock-solid", either. Hardly any data to go on, he's mostly played TvT and TvZ lately. Even MMA who historically is bad against protoss, may be good at the matchup too, now. Even if Mvp loses his next game against protoss, there's still not enough data, so much stuff can change.
I would think it's much more logical to extrapolate from past results in the face of little evidence than to say that a player is suddenly good at a match-up in the face of little evidence.
Guess we'll see soon though. MVP vs. MC at WCG, and MMA vs. MC in GSL. Not that MC represents a good sample either, but should be fun.
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IMMvp pwned oGsMC in September 9 and EGHuk in September 24 (less than 2 month before)
and also beat LiquidHero in October 7 in less than 1 month before.
His TvP was proven super-solid long time ago and his recent skill level is almost highest with Bomber and MKP.
At least you guys can't compare him to MMA....It's shameful for MVP.
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On October 29 2011 13:34 RaiKageRyu wrote:
I can't believe extended series takes place in finals as well. In a normal double-elimination, MMA would have won, as he won the next two games consecutively.
Its not extended series tho cause they hadn't met before....
So did they extend it to a Bo7? Cause normaly MLG goes double Elim when someone comes from the loser brackets...
So was the Score 2-1 then 2-1 again in the favour of MVP :S?
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btw guys MVP just pwned MMA with his astonishingly perfect macro management in MLG Anaheim final game 1. I highly recommend the game in Testbug.
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On October 29 2011 13:34 RaiKageRyu wrote:
I can't believe extended series takes place in finals as well. In a normal double-elimination, MMA would have won, as he won the next two games consecutively.
Exactly, but unfortunately that wasn't the case. 
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MVP beating the 2nd and 3rd best terrans in the world while being down on extended series to both of them. When that man is on a run he is unstoppable.
Bomber could be on par with MVP if he wasnt so damn volatile in his performance and MMA is just overall one level under MVP. They are both amazing players but MVP is just so overall solid in all aspects of the game.
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Guys, now that Mvp has won both BlizzCon and the Korean Invitational, how will the Global Invitational work? Mvp is occupying two of the four spots.
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On October 29 2011 22:29 Benjef wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 13:34 RaiKageRyu wrote:
I can't believe extended series takes place in finals as well. In a normal double-elimination, MMA would have won, as he won the next two games consecutively. Its not extended series tho cause they hadn't met before.... So did they extend it to a Bo7? Cause normaly MLG goes double Elim when someone comes from the loser brackets... So was the Score 2-1 then 2-1 again in the favour of MVP :S?
The extended series rule goes for the finals as well. If whoever comes from the lower bracket (Mvp in this case) wins the bo3, it's extended to a bo7. It has worked that way for MLG from the start afaik, we just haven't seen the WB champion lose the first bo3 yet this year (I think?)
On October 29 2011 23:06 GrungyMunchy wrote:
Guys, now that Mvp has won both BlizzCon and the Korean Invitational, how will the Global Invitational work? Mvp is occupying two of the four spots.
Either Nestea replaces him as the BlizzCon invite, or MMA replaces him as the Korean representative. No official announcement on this yet I think.
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On October 29 2011 11:35 red4ce wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 11:29 woobsauce wrote:On October 29 2011 11:25 Thorn Raven wrote:On October 29 2011 11:16 woobsauce wrote:On October 29 2011 11:15 Razuik wrote:
I think we can all agree that MVP is now the confirmed best terran in the world. :D Given that MVP essentially 1base allin'd the first two games and they double counted towards MMA due to the extended series, I think this statement is closer to trolling than fact. MVP has won 3 GSLs. And he just came out of a straight 4 game win streak against Bomber. Going for two quick wins is a very efficient way to manage one's constitution. Very intelligent and well played by MVP. Then when MMA tries to play a straight macro game agianst MVP, he loses the series. MVP is superior to MMA ( and arguably every other Terran existing) in every single aspect of TvT: macro, micro, game sense, decision making and comprehensive timing knowledge. MVP tends to lose macro games vs MMA. The games they played in GSTL, the GeForce Pro/AM, and the GSL finals showcase this. Perhaps its a question of preparation, but their mechanics, decision making, micro/macro, etc. are not far off from one another. I suggest you rewatch those games and take notice of how the 'macro games' MVP loses are a result of advantages MMA got in the early game.
Exactly. MMA plays really greedy early on, and usually counters MVP safe methodical style. He is 1-6 vs Polt, who is a timing person and he is 4-7 vs MKP, who was another reason Polt 4-0d MMA. MMA beat Bomber with greedy openings too. Look at the game MVP won today. They were either awesome comebacks (vs bomber taldarim), 1/1/1 all in after scouting gas less expand and late factory, mech roflstomp on daybreak (vs bomber and mma) or simple defends of difficult to handle attacks. Let's look at the games he lost. He goes cloaked banshee vs gas first banshee and suffers a build order loss (twice). He loses after a failed 1 base attack after nearly coming back anyway.
The fact that he was way up in supply against MMA on Daybreak whilst going mech should tell you their respective macro skills. The fact is, he 4-1d Bomber and 4-2d MMA, with losses coming from build order alone. He is the best Terran (unless his vP is still awful)
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On October 29 2011 23:09 Siphyo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 22:29 Benjef wrote:On October 29 2011 13:34 RaiKageRyu wrote:
I can't believe extended series takes place in finals as well. In a normal double-elimination, MMA would have won, as he won the next two games consecutively. Its not extended series tho cause they hadn't met before.... So did they extend it to a Bo7? Cause normaly MLG goes double Elim when someone comes from the loser brackets... So was the Score 2-1 then 2-1 again in the favour of MVP :S? The extended series rule goes for the finals as well. If whoever comes from the lower bracket (Mvp in this case) wins the bo3, it's extended to a bo7. It has worked that way for MLG from the start afaik, we just haven't seen the WB champion lose the first bo3 yet this year (I think?) Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 23:06 GrungyMunchy wrote:
Guys, now that Mvp has won both BlizzCon and the Korean Invitational, how will the Global Invitational work? Mvp is occupying two of the four spots. Either Nestea replaces him as the BlizzCon invite, or MMA replaces him as the Korean representative. No official announcement on this yet I think.
2nd place from blizzcon gets to go. MVP, Nestea together with probably Idra and White-Ra in a bracket. Should be good fun.
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EPT
