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On October 29 2011 11:21 Razuik wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 11:16 woobsauce wrote:On October 29 2011 11:15 Razuik wrote:
I think we can all agree that MVP is now the confirmed best terran in the world. :D Given that MVP essentially 1base allin'd the first two games and they double counted towards MMA due to the extended series, I think this statement is closer to trolling than fact. He punished MMA's greedy expands. Would you consider someone bad for not taking an easy win? That's strange logic. Also, are you suggesting that MVP's macro not better or on par with MMA's?
His macro is spectacular, but no more spectacular than MMA's. That comparison is not what is at stake. What is clear is that his (MVP's) builds were also very clearly geared toward 1base allins/aggression without plans of bothering to expand (or if so, expanding at like the 14 minute mark, woo). Game 4 pretty much showcased this, and it is indeed frustrating that the first two games were also in this fashion and double counted due to the extended Bo7.
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On October 29 2011 11:25 Thorn Raven wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 11:16 woobsauce wrote:On October 29 2011 11:15 Razuik wrote:
I think we can all agree that MVP is now the confirmed best terran in the world. :D Given that MVP essentially 1base allin'd the first two games and they double counted towards MMA due to the extended series, I think this statement is closer to trolling than fact. MVP has won 3 GSLs. And he just came out of a straight 4 game win streak against Bomber. Going for two quick wins is a very efficient way to manage one's constitution. Very intelligent and well played by MVP. Then when MMA tries to play a straight macro game agianst MVP, he loses the series. MVP is superior to MMA ( and arguably every other Terran existing) in every single aspect of TvT: macro, micro, game sense, decision making and comprehensive timing knowledge.
MVP tends to lose macro games vs MMA. The games they played in GSTL, the GeForce Pro/AM, and the GSL finals showcase this. Perhaps its a question of preparation, but their mechanics, decision making, micro/macro, etc. are not far off from one another.
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I wonder how they're going to do the Global Final + scheduling.
Apparently it'll be on Friday. Since at least 2 of the 4 players (Idra is seeded, don't know Euro winner yet) have to play through the whole open bracket, are they going to ensure they get Byes in the first round? They could actually setup Byes for the first 2 rounds for them (you'd have to take off 3 "Open Bracket" spots per person you do this for), so they could play that day. Obviously, the point of this is to have some awesome games to stream Friday night. (MLG is really good at thinking through this problem, btw!)
The other thing is how they're going to setup the tournament. Are they just going to have a drawing to see who plays who? Or, better phrased, are they planning to pay team IM 4k or 3k?
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I love seeing the mech player win in TvT, so congrats to MVP
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On October 29 2011 11:25 Stanlot wrote:
Is it over already? D:
already? Two series took 3.5 hours.
MVP showed some amazing play today. Can't believe he came back against Bomber after being down 0-3. I don't know if there is another player in the world that can do that.
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On October 29 2011 11:27 justsayinbro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 11:25 Thorn Raven wrote:On October 29 2011 11:16 woobsauce wrote:On October 29 2011 11:15 Razuik wrote:
I think we can all agree that MVP is now the confirmed best terran in the world. :D Given that MVP essentially 1base allin'd the first two games and they double counted towards MMA due to the extended series, I think this statement is closer to trolling than fact. MVP has won 3 GSLs. And he just came out of a straight 4 game win streak against Bomber. Going for two quick wins is a very efficient way to manage one's constitution. Very intelligent and well played by MVP. Then when MMA tries to play a straight macro game agianst MVP, he loses the series. MVP is superior to MMA ( and arguably every other Terran existing) in every single aspect of TvT: macro, micro, game sense, decision making and comprehensive timing knowledge. who won the last gsl? there is no way you can say MVP is superior to MMA after seeing that series... i even agree with you that mvp > mma but you can't say superior when mma has taken out mvp just recently
True true. But here we are: MVP has just 4-2ed MMA.
I guess they are overall pretty even head-to-head. Time will tell us who has the upper hand in this rivalry. They need to play more so we can settle this debate!
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On October 29 2011 11:31 jmbthirteen wrote:already? Two series took 3.5 hours. MVP showed some amazing play today. Can't believe he came back against Bomber after being down 0-3. I don't know if there is another player in the world that can do that.
I dunno, I just noticed that it was on the side bar but I couldn't find the stream and the bracket doesn't look updated.
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On October 29 2011 11:29 woobsauce wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 11:25 Thorn Raven wrote:On October 29 2011 11:16 woobsauce wrote:On October 29 2011 11:15 Razuik wrote:
I think we can all agree that MVP is now the confirmed best terran in the world. :D Given that MVP essentially 1base allin'd the first two games and they double counted towards MMA due to the extended series, I think this statement is closer to trolling than fact. MVP has won 3 GSLs. And he just came out of a straight 4 game win streak against Bomber. Going for two quick wins is a very efficient way to manage one's constitution. Very intelligent and well played by MVP. Then when MMA tries to play a straight macro game agianst MVP, he loses the series. MVP is superior to MMA ( and arguably every other Terran existing) in every single aspect of TvT: macro, micro, game sense, decision making and comprehensive timing knowledge. MVP tends to lose macro games vs MMA. The games they played in GSTL, the GeForce Pro/AM, and the GSL finals showcase this. Perhaps its a question of preparation, but their mechanics, decision making, micro/macro, etc. are not far off from one another.
MVP won some pretty convincing macro games right there man, I dunno.
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On October 29 2011 11:29 woobsauce wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 11:25 Thorn Raven wrote:On October 29 2011 11:16 woobsauce wrote:On October 29 2011 11:15 Razuik wrote:
I think we can all agree that MVP is now the confirmed best terran in the world. :D Given that MVP essentially 1base allin'd the first two games and they double counted towards MMA due to the extended series, I think this statement is closer to trolling than fact. MVP has won 3 GSLs. And he just came out of a straight 4 game win streak against Bomber. Going for two quick wins is a very efficient way to manage one's constitution. Very intelligent and well played by MVP. Then when MMA tries to play a straight macro game agianst MVP, he loses the series. MVP is superior to MMA ( and arguably every other Terran existing) in every single aspect of TvT: macro, micro, game sense, decision making and comprehensive timing knowledge. MVP tends to lose macro games vs MMA. The games they played in GSTL, the GeForce Pro/AM, and the GSL finals showcase this. Perhaps its a question of preparation, but their mechanics, decision making, micro/macro, etc. are not far off from one another.
I suggest you rewatch those games and take notice of how the 'macro games' MVP loses are a result of advantages MMA got in the early game.
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MVP = MMA
Nothing more; nothing less.
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On October 29 2011 11:36 Dragonmaster26 wrote:
MVP = MMA
Nothing more; nothing less.
Don't disrespect MVP like that
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On October 29 2011 11:35 red4ce wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 11:29 woobsauce wrote:On October 29 2011 11:25 Thorn Raven wrote:On October 29 2011 11:16 woobsauce wrote:On October 29 2011 11:15 Razuik wrote:
I think we can all agree that MVP is now the confirmed best terran in the world. :D Given that MVP essentially 1base allin'd the first two games and they double counted towards MMA due to the extended series, I think this statement is closer to trolling than fact. MVP has won 3 GSLs. And he just came out of a straight 4 game win streak against Bomber. Going for two quick wins is a very efficient way to manage one's constitution. Very intelligent and well played by MVP. Then when MMA tries to play a straight macro game agianst MVP, he loses the series. MVP is superior to MMA ( and arguably every other Terran existing) in every single aspect of TvT: macro, micro, game sense, decision making and comprehensive timing knowledge. MVP tends to lose macro games vs MMA. The games they played in GSTL, the GeForce Pro/AM, and the GSL finals showcase this. Perhaps its a question of preparation, but their mechanics, decision making, micro/macro, etc. are not far off from one another. I suggest you rewatch those games and take notice of how the 'macro games' MVP loses are a result of advantages MMA got in the early game.
It has been far, far too long to go back and recant the games from memory, but certainly half the the games from the GeForce Pro/AM were straight up macro game victories for MMA (the first series was 5 macro games and MMA came out ahead 3-2, and the finals were at least half macro games, but ill have to go back..), the GSTL match was yet another straight up marine/tank v marine/tank victory for MMA, and in games 2 and 4 for blizzcon (two of the only three 'macro' games) MMA out macro'd using bio vs mech.
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On October 29 2011 11:29 woobsauce wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 11:25 Thorn Raven wrote:On October 29 2011 11:16 woobsauce wrote:On October 29 2011 11:15 Razuik wrote:
I think we can all agree that MVP is now the confirmed best terran in the world. :D Given that MVP essentially 1base allin'd the first two games and they double counted towards MMA due to the extended series, I think this statement is closer to trolling than fact. MVP has won 3 GSLs. And he just came out of a straight 4 game win streak against Bomber. Going for two quick wins is a very efficient way to manage one's constitution. Very intelligent and well played by MVP. Then when MMA tries to play a straight macro game agianst MVP, he loses the series. MVP is superior to MMA ( and arguably every other Terran existing) in every single aspect of TvT: macro, micro, game sense, decision making and comprehensive timing knowledge. MVP tends to lose macro games vs MMA. The games they played in GSTL, the GeForce Pro/AM, and the GSL finals showcase this. Perhaps its a question of preparation, but their mechanics, decision making, micro/macro, etc. are not far off from one another.
its not that he loses macro games, its just that when mech'ing vs MMA, the longer the game goes on, the more likely MVP will make the smallest of positioning mistakes which leads to MMA roflstomping MVP's mech army, like in game 2 in the gsl finals. I think it was game 2 at least.
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On October 29 2011 11:39 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 11:29 woobsauce wrote:On October 29 2011 11:25 Thorn Raven wrote:On October 29 2011 11:16 woobsauce wrote:On October 29 2011 11:15 Razuik wrote:
I think we can all agree that MVP is now the confirmed best terran in the world. :D Given that MVP essentially 1base allin'd the first two games and they double counted towards MMA due to the extended series, I think this statement is closer to trolling than fact. MVP has won 3 GSLs. And he just came out of a straight 4 game win streak against Bomber. Going for two quick wins is a very efficient way to manage one's constitution. Very intelligent and well played by MVP. Then when MMA tries to play a straight macro game agianst MVP, he loses the series. MVP is superior to MMA ( and arguably every other Terran existing) in every single aspect of TvT: macro, micro, game sense, decision making and comprehensive timing knowledge. MVP tends to lose macro games vs MMA. The games they played in GSTL, the GeForce Pro/AM, and the GSL finals showcase this. Perhaps its a question of preparation, but their mechanics, decision making, micro/macro, etc. are not far off from one another. its not that he loses macro games, its just that when mech'ing vs MMA, the longer the game goes on, the more likely MVP will make the smallest of positioning mistakes which leads to MMA roflstomping MVP's mech army, like in game 2 in the gsl finals. I think it was game 2 at least.
I suppose I need to clarify. By macro games I mean games which they don't one base each other to death. In which case, he tends to lose more games than win vs MMA.
A big part of game two at blizzcon is that MMA -created- opportunities to catch MVP out of position by being the aggressor while MVP tried to turtle and max. Even using a style considered to be inferior/dated (by some) he found ways to win by taking full advantage of his mobility, etc. in order to actually create the openings needed to win (as well as continue expanding).
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well. to be fair. MVP generally is quite watertight against the kind of aggression when meching. for example in many of the games in the GSL finals he had a whole bunch of vikings but kept getting stretched by drops. he usually manages to keep those out with a combination of vikings/turrets and wicked game sense.
mma outplayed him during that finals. but well. i still think mvp is a superior player. his builds are ridiculous.
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I can't believe extended series takes place in finals as well. In a normal double-elimination, MMA would have won, as he won the next two games consecutively.
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On October 29 2011 11:31 jmbthirteen wrote:already? Two series took 3.5 hours. MVP showed some amazing play today. Can't believe he came back against Bomber after being down 0-3. I don't know if there is another player in the world that can do that.
It was a case of Bomber being Bomber again. Sigh. Watching him play is infuriating. His play is genius! It's brilliant! And then ... and then ...
Yeah.
._.
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is there anywhere I can watch the vods for these games? Seems like I missed some great games 
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I hope these two become the greatest rivals in all of SC2. At least until the BW A-Teamers switch over.
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MVP > MMA. The GSL Oct final was result of MMA's superior planning and practise. While tastosis were favouring MVP for the win, the korean casters were favouring MMA, because they've seen how much MMA practised while MVP was busy playing/preparing for blizzcon.
Also, MVP's superb in all matchups. MMA isn't
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EPT
