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On August 12 2011 20:47 HolyArrow wrote: Coca? I don't agree with that at all. Byun has shown excellent TvT results, while Coca's vT winrate is 35%. I guess Coca has been owning it up vT lately in practice, or something. Coca took 1 game from Keen recently but lost another game to him, so he cant advance
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On August 12 2011 20:48 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 20:45 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On August 12 2011 20:42 HolyArrow wrote:On August 12 2011 20:39 bbQ4Aiur wrote:On August 12 2011 20:37 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 12 2011 20:33 ktgster wrote: Doesn't anyone find that the standard for TvP is doing a 1 base all in on every map that permits it is fundamentally wrong? You can claim it's perfectly holdable given perfect execution, but when players have the confidence to do it every single game, don't you think something is wrong?
my 2 cents Yep, I agree that something is wrong~_~ I do think Ps should do more builds that counter it blindly, but I dont think they should HAVE to do that. which means u also agree 1-1-1 is a problem I don't think Jinro's original post that included telling people to jump in a lake was saying that 1-1-1 isn't a problem - he was saying that people who think it's literally impossible to hold off are lacking in intelligence, and I agree with that. Unfortunately, many people seem to have bandwagoned on it and turned it into a huge strawman, which is probably not what Jinro wanted  Even though it might not seem that way because the build makes me irate some times, I completely agree. It can be defended, its just very hard. I just so bored with that build that I want it to be solved or fixed or something (which is easier said than done without breaking something else). I was telling people to jump in a lake because yesterday they whine about Thorzain not using his banshee to scout, and today they whine about the banshee dying to phoenixes because asd used it to scout. There needs to be consistency, you cant go "OMG HE FAILED THE BUILD BECAUSE HE DIDNT SCOUT WITH BANSHEE" then next day go "OMG HE FAILED THE BUILD BECAUSE HE SCOUTED WITH BANSHEE". I get it . I really enjoy when you post in these threads because your input is fantastic. Don't let whinny P players like I can sometimes be scare you away.
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On August 12 2011 20:48 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 20:45 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On August 12 2011 20:42 HolyArrow wrote:On August 12 2011 20:39 bbQ4Aiur wrote:On August 12 2011 20:37 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 12 2011 20:33 ktgster wrote: Doesn't anyone find that the standard for TvP is doing a 1 base all in on every map that permits it is fundamentally wrong? You can claim it's perfectly holdable given perfect execution, but when players have the confidence to do it every single game, don't you think something is wrong?
my 2 cents Yep, I agree that something is wrong~_~ I do think Ps should do more builds that counter it blindly, but I dont think they should HAVE to do that. which means u also agree 1-1-1 is a problem I don't think Jinro's original post that included telling people to jump in a lake was saying that 1-1-1 isn't a problem - he was saying that people who think it's literally impossible to hold off are lacking in intelligence, and I agree with that. Unfortunately, many people seem to have bandwagoned on it and turned it into a huge strawman, which is probably not what Jinro wanted  Even though it might not seem that way because the build makes me irate some times, I completely agree. It can be defended, its just very hard. I just so bored with that build that I want it to be solved or fixed or something (which is easier said than done without breaking something else). I was telling people to jump in a lake because yesterday they whine about Thorzain not using his banshee to scout, and today they whine about the banshee dying to phoenixes because asd used it to scout. There needs to be consistency, you cant go "OMG HE FAILED THE BUILD BECAUSE HE DIDNT SCOUT WITH BANSHEE" then next day go "OMG HE FAILED THE BUILD BECAUSE HE SCOUTED WITH BANSHEE". Thing is that 1-1-1 isn't identical every time. There is a lot of deviation with it, so you can't blind counter all the possible variations in the same way. This might also mean that scouting or not scouting with a banshee might be right or wrong depending on which version the Terran is doing.
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Im losing everysingle ZvT when going roach after hellion blue flame, havnt really found a good way to handle the siegetank/thors
and like 4 out of 5 terrans goes with that build
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On August 12 2011 20:49 Emporio wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 20:48 MrCon wrote:On August 12 2011 20:47 Tachion wrote: Remember when GSTL teams wouldn't dare send out a Zerg? I do <3 haha yeah, they were throwing terrans at each other non stop :D Then there was the GSTL when only Protoss would win. now we just need only zergs winning. too bad there's like 5 zergs in korea. lol jp :p
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Why does the observer never get any love? I demand camera time for the observer!
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On August 12 2011 20:49 Logros wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 20:47 s3183529 wrote:Just quote myself so y'all can see. Those who think u're better than MVP are probably delusional. How ironic when he did the exact same thing but off of 2 bases against MC. What?
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On August 12 2011 20:48 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 20:45 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On August 12 2011 20:42 HolyArrow wrote:On August 12 2011 20:39 bbQ4Aiur wrote:On August 12 2011 20:37 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 12 2011 20:33 ktgster wrote: Doesn't anyone find that the standard for TvP is doing a 1 base all in on every map that permits it is fundamentally wrong? You can claim it's perfectly holdable given perfect execution, but when players have the confidence to do it every single game, don't you think something is wrong?
my 2 cents Yep, I agree that something is wrong~_~ I do think Ps should do more builds that counter it blindly, but I dont think they should HAVE to do that. which means u also agree 1-1-1 is a problem I don't think Jinro's original post that included telling people to jump in a lake was saying that 1-1-1 isn't a problem - he was saying that people who think it's literally impossible to hold off are lacking in intelligence, and I agree with that. Unfortunately, many people seem to have bandwagoned on it and turned it into a huge strawman, which is probably not what Jinro wanted  Even though it might not seem that way because the build makes me irate some times, I completely agree. It can be defended, its just very hard. I just so bored with that build that I want it to be solved or fixed or something (which is easier said than done without breaking something else). I was telling people to jump in a lake because yesterday they whine about Thorzain not using his banshee to scout, and today they whine about the banshee dying to phoenixes because asd used it to scout. There needs to be consistency, you cant go "OMG HE FAILED THE BUILD BECAUSE HE DIDNT SCOUT WITH BANSHEE" then next day go "OMG HE FAILED THE BUILD BECAUSE HE SCOUTED WITH BANSHEE".
Weeeellll ... you can't expect consistency from a random group of LR posters. You can pick and choose all you want and come up with similar examples for any situation.
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On August 12 2011 20:49 Qaatar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 20:47 JKira wrote:On August 12 2011 20:42 Caesarion wrote:Woah, even MVP. That's pretty huge That's funny because MVP often uses a 2base variation of the 1-1-1 to set up contains. I appreciate that he has the...iunno what the word is, dignity (?) to not do the allin version. Uh, he's done it once in the GSL. Wtf...
Huh? He did it vs Sangho in the Teamleague, vs HuK in the World Championships, and once more I believe that I'm not remembering the name of, and of course to MC recently.
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OOOHHHH TASTELESS
EDIT: Also, are you guys done complaining about 1/1/1?
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On August 12 2011 20:48 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 20:45 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On August 12 2011 20:42 HolyArrow wrote:On August 12 2011 20:39 bbQ4Aiur wrote:On August 12 2011 20:37 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 12 2011 20:33 ktgster wrote: Doesn't anyone find that the standard for TvP is doing a 1 base all in on every map that permits it is fundamentally wrong? You can claim it's perfectly holdable given perfect execution, but when players have the confidence to do it every single game, don't you think something is wrong?
my 2 cents Yep, I agree that something is wrong~_~ I do think Ps should do more builds that counter it blindly, but I dont think they should HAVE to do that. which means u also agree 1-1-1 is a problem I don't think Jinro's original post that included telling people to jump in a lake was saying that 1-1-1 isn't a problem - he was saying that people who think it's literally impossible to hold off are lacking in intelligence, and I agree with that. Unfortunately, many people seem to have bandwagoned on it and turned it into a huge strawman, which is probably not what Jinro wanted  Even though it might not seem that way because the build makes me irate some times, I completely agree. It can be defended, its just very hard. I just so bored with that build that I want it to be solved or fixed or something (which is easier said than done without breaking something else). I was telling people to jump in a lake because yesterday they whine about Thorzain not using his banshee to scout, and today they whine about the banshee dying to phoenixes because asd used it to scout. There needs to be consistency, you cant go "OMG HE FAILED THE BUILD BECAUSE HE DIDNT SCOUT WITH BANSHEE" then next day go "OMG HE FAILED THE BUILD BECAUSE HE SCOUTED WITH BANSHEE".
I wasn't aware that people were saying that yesterday about Thorzain's game, but I agree that consistency is important so I can see why you're annoyed. What I gleaned from Thorzain's game though was that he just engaged pretty badly, didn't micro his Banshees well when the engagement began, didn't siege his tanks in time, and let his marines stray way too far from the one tank that he sieged in the back. Am I wrong in my interpretation?
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On August 12 2011 20:49 Logros wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 20:47 s3183529 wrote:Just quote myself so y'all can see. Those who think u're better than MVP are probably delusional. How ironic when he did the exact same thing but off of 2 bases against MC.
Which he proceeded to expand after the contain? No one will care about 111 if the T just stays passive and expands, because the P will eventually mass up enough to break the contain. Unfortunately, the one-base 111 only aims to kill the P off ASAP. Let's not confuse the fundamental difference here.
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On August 12 2011 20:51 KiNGxXx wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 20:49 Logros wrote:On August 12 2011 20:47 s3183529 wrote:Just quote myself so y'all can see. Those who think u're better than MVP are probably delusional. How ironic when he did the exact same thing but off of 2 bases against MC. What? That was so not the same build...
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On August 12 2011 20:49 Logros wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 20:47 s3183529 wrote:Just quote myself so y'all can see. Those who think u're better than MVP are probably delusional. How ironic when he did the exact same thing but off of 2 bases against MC. It was the exact same thing only of 2 bases. Lolwut?
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On August 12 2011 20:51 Nastiness wrote: Im losing everysingle ZvT when going roach after hellion blue flame, havnt really found a good way to handle the siegetank/thors get burrow and tech to infestors to buy time for your broodlords. leave roaches at your expansions or burrow your drones when bflame hellions come in
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