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On July 28 2011 18:42 Kilby wrote:
I think it's weird how little credit Destiny gets.
Just as an example, if some imaginary player (not Destiny) figures out a new strategy that is extremely difficult to beat even for the best players but he never wins any tournament himself nor reaches much personal success as a player, he would still have contributed much to the community. I would say at least as much as a pro player who spends 14 hours a day practicing standard strategies that someone else figured out.
Didn't you basically just describe Spanishiwa, who got way more credit than he ever really deserved
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On July 28 2011 19:58 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 19:49 AnalThermometer wrote:
From a Protoss perspective I don't understand why players think ghosts are going to be so amazing vs Zerg in the long run, feels a lot like HT vs Ghosts which was so difficult until recently. Myself and plenty of korean protoss I watch now go HT/Archons even if they see ghosts coming since the EMP changes, as all you need to do is keep half your HT/Infestors behind your army and bring them in once the ghosts have been baited into using all their energy. Thats with the whole Protoss army suffering hard from EMP, it doesn't even affect most of the Zerg army. Terrans will then need to learn to use Ghosts better. It is as easy as that. But I don't see a point in this discussion. Destiny has not won anything of importance with this infestor use, and no top Zerg in the world has won anything with mass infestor use. Complaining about balance until a bunch of Zergs start doing that is pointless. As far as we know, any better player with some experience would rape Destiny (or Idra) if they tried mass infestors at a tournament, like Socke did (and Minigun in one game)
He didn't rape destiny, it went 2-1 and all the games were very close. Socke come on top which was well deserved, but you can't say he raped destiny because it's just not true.
Destiny played a game vs minigun where he made Collosus......one game doesnt really explain much.
And the game destiny played in losers bracket.......he lost to a cannon rush, sigh, someone really learnt well from being in the same team with incontrol.
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So much rage in this thread. Destiny's style is a suprise to people - no one can deny this. Rain went the standard marine/tank, his micro was really good in a lot of cases and got caught out becuase he wasn't prepared for the infestor rushes Destiny uses. End of story.
We'll see how good Destiny really is at MLG.
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On July 28 2011 21:44 Trowa127 wrote:
So much rage in this thread. Destiny's style is a suprise to people - no one can deny this. Rain went the standard marine/tank, his micro was really good in a lot of cases and got caught out becuase he wasn't prepared for the infestor rushes Destiny uses. End of story.
We'll see how good Destiny really is at MLG. Hopefully it won't be like Rets 15minutes at NASL. And Ret is surely not a bad player.
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This the best example Why infestors are OP, zerg is broken and terran are realy UP atm.
:D :D :D epic troll post!!
User was warned for this post
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On July 28 2011 21:44 Trowa127 wrote:
So much rage in this thread. Destiny's style is a suprise to people - no one can deny this. Rain went the standard marine/tank, his micro was really good in a lot of cases and got caught out becuase he wasn't prepared for the infestor rushes Destiny uses. End of story.
We'll see how good Destiny really is at MLG.
Lets guess why so many people are raging when it comes to Destiny in this thread? Well can it be jealousy? or because 90% of the people raging are either bronze->diamond players which most of the people recalls as newbies. I stopped bother a long time ago. Except when it comes to people like "Bagi".
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Vatican City State334 Posts
On July 28 2011 19:58 -Archangel- wrote:
Terrans will then need to learn to use Ghosts better. It is as easy as that.
But I don't see a point in this discussion. Destiny has not won anything of importance with this infestor use, and no top Zerg in the world has won anything with mass infestor use.
Complaining about balance until a bunch of Zergs start doing that is pointless. As far as we know, any better player with some experience would rape Destiny (or Idra) if they tried mass infestors at a tournament, like Socke did (and Minigun in one game)
Its not quite as simple as that, because zerg also have room for infestor micro improvements as well. Protoss were saying the same things about terrans not using ghosts well enough before the amulet was removed, which seems funny now. Ghosts have always been hyped up by the other races.
I don't think its just balance whining either as Blizzard are on their side, they themselves said Infestors and Broodlords were being looked in to before many of the complaints.
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Ghosts have 2 great anti-caster abilities that outrange their targets, invisibility, faster move speed and scan to help spot enemy casters and (extremely vulnerable) mobile observers.
You're getting outclassed in the micro war if you can't use ghosts to shut down larger numbers of infestors or ht's. Ghosts simply have stronger caster v caster tools.
ofc it's more complicated than "lol go ghosts" but ghosts are phenomenal (and rarely correctly used) anti-casters.
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On July 28 2011 22:09 PiQLiQ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 21:44 Trowa127 wrote:
So much rage in this thread. Destiny's style is a suprise to people - no one can deny this. Rain went the standard marine/tank, his micro was really good in a lot of cases and got caught out becuase he wasn't prepared for the infestor rushes Destiny uses. End of story.
We'll see how good Destiny really is at MLG. Lets guess why so many people are raging when it comes to Destiny in this thread? Well can it be jealousy? or because 90% of the people raging are either bronze->diamond players which most of the people recalls as newbies. I stopped bother a long time ago. Except when it comes to people like "Bagi".
People are angry becuase Destiny is a figure that divides the community, so its not suprising. You can't gauge his skill on his recent success though - especially when hes playing koreans, who have never seen this style before. Give it a few weeks (or even days, as I'm sure people at MLG will be looking to snipe him) for someone to develop a counter build and then we'll see how good Destiny is.
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Bomber pretty obviously told his teammate Ace "hey this Destiny guy loves mass infestor/ling, hit him with a bunch of upgraded zealot/templar/archon."
Destiny simply out-played the guy and won any ways.
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On July 28 2011 22:28 kedinik wrote:
Bomber pretty obviously told his teammate Ace "hey this Destiny guy loves mass infestor/ling, hit him with a bunch of upgraded zealot/templar/archon."
Destiny simply out-played the guy and won any ways.
This is a smart man^^, Destiny fighting at mlg. : )
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On July 28 2011 22:24 Trowa127 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 22:09 PiQLiQ wrote:On July 28 2011 21:44 Trowa127 wrote:
So much rage in this thread. Destiny's style is a suprise to people - no one can deny this. Rain went the standard marine/tank, his micro was really good in a lot of cases and got caught out becuase he wasn't prepared for the infestor rushes Destiny uses. End of story.
We'll see how good Destiny really is at MLG. Lets guess why so many people are raging when it comes to Destiny in this thread? Well can it be jealousy? or because 90% of the people raging are either bronze->diamond players which most of the people recalls as newbies. I stopped bother a long time ago. Except when it comes to people like "Bagi". People are angry becuase Destiny is a figure that divides the community, so its not suprising. You can't gauge his skill on his recent success though - especially when hes playing koreans, who have never seen this style before. Give it a few weeks (or even days, as I'm sure people at MLG will be looking to snipe him) for someone to develop a counter build and then we'll see how good Destiny is.
yea, he made his infestor play a real secret. its not like he streamed it for 10h each day for the last weeks
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Sorry to interject, but how many of the people going "omg just make ghosts and win" are grandmaster terran players?
Just wondering.
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Isn't it true that if an infestor/HT walks towards a ghost in a 1-on-1 to see who can nullify the other first (supposing they both have full vision), the infestor/HT will always win due to instant cast?
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On July 29 2011 00:39 Doodsmack wrote:
Isn't it true that if an infestor/HT walks towards a ghost in a 1-on-1 to see who can nullify the other first (supposing they both have full vision), the infestor/HT will always win due to instant cast?
I'm fairly sure EMP has a longer range as well as a AOE effect from where you aim it. You just need to fire it earlier compared to when the infestor/HT casts their respective spells. FG also has AOE but the radius isn't as large and using it on a single ghost would be incredibly stupid.
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That's true but not really relevant doodsmack, since terran has good tools for wiping out protoss and zerg detectors and cloak + scan + range advantage gives a micro edge to ghosts.
It's not an auto-win button ofc but it's a bit easier to wipe observers/overseers and spot for emp's with scan than it is to fight against that.
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Yes, ideally ghosts would be able to counter the composition, but in an actual game it's much harder. If your ghosts emp the infestors, they're out of energy, but they're still alive and they can back off. If your ghosts get caught in a fungal they'll die straight up. That's the trade off. Infestors are just easier to keep alive because of zerglings taking damage, and when broodlords come out then it's ridiculously hard to even get close to the infestors to emp before fungals can get off when you engage.
And even if you do emp every single one you can't force a good engagement because of the time it takes to move your siege tanks.
Also, the mass infested terran engagement is a joke and I believe that seriously needs to be reworked. They don't have to be in EMP range to do this and engage your army, and it is ridiculously effective. The only counter to this is to "not let this point in the game ever occur where their infestors get that much energy" which is hard when they turtle up. You just can't willy nilly go in and cloak and try to get lucky emps off because even if you do it's guaranteed that all your ghosts will die for it. I just don't think infestors should be able to cast this spell while burrowed.
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On July 29 2011 01:26 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Also, the mass infested terran engagement is a joke and I believe that seriously needs to be reworked. They don't have to be in EMP range to do this and engage your army, and it is ridiculously effective. The only counter to this is to "not let this point in the game ever occur where their infestors get that much energy" which is hard when they turtle up. You just can't willy nilly go in and cloak and try to get lucky emps off because even if you do it's guaranteed that all your ghosts will die for it. I just don't think infestors should be able to cast this spell while burrowed.
I'm pretty sure that they have to be within siege tank range to launch the infested terrans... so it's possible to look for the burrowed infestors (yes, like cloaked units, they can be 'seen') and use a scan... or perhaps building a raven to detect the burrowed infestors could be useful?
I'm sorry that infestor/ling smashes the basic terran army, but that doesn't mean there is 'no counter'.
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I was excited to watch these VODs. Then I heard the British toddler doing the cast, and went and watched Dexter.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On July 28 2011 22:50 Enox wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 22:24 Trowa127 wrote:On July 28 2011 22:09 PiQLiQ wrote:On July 28 2011 21:44 Trowa127 wrote:
So much rage in this thread. Destiny's style is a suprise to people - no one can deny this. Rain went the standard marine/tank, his micro was really good in a lot of cases and got caught out becuase he wasn't prepared for the infestor rushes Destiny uses. End of story.
We'll see how good Destiny really is at MLG. Lets guess why so many people are raging when it comes to Destiny in this thread? Well can it be jealousy? or because 90% of the people raging are either bronze->diamond players which most of the people recalls as newbies. I stopped bother a long time ago. Except when it comes to people like "Bagi". People are angry becuase Destiny is a figure that divides the community, so its not suprising. You can't gauge his skill on his recent success though - especially when hes playing koreans, who have never seen this style before. Give it a few weeks (or even days, as I'm sure people at MLG will be looking to snipe him) for someone to develop a counter build and then we'll see how good Destiny is. yea, he made his infestor play a real secret. its not like he streamed it for 10h each day for the last weeks
Do you honestly think pro players are going to watch someone like Destiny stream? You have to remember he hasn't won *anything* ever. People don't see him as a threat, so they get caught off guard. We'll see what happenes at MLG as I said.
As a side note -
'UHH OHHH BOOBLORDSS!'
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EPT
