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Stop being so silly over women in esports. Rude comments will be banned for! (from page 78). Be sure to keep the topic excellent, please! |
On July 10 2011 13:27 Ocedic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:20 Sideburn wrote:On July 10 2011 13:12 Medrea wrote:On July 10 2011 13:10 deadjawa wrote:On July 10 2011 13:08 Ocedic wrote:On July 10 2011 13:06 Euronyme wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 Moonwrath wrote:On July 10 2011 13:02 Shellshock1122 wrote:On July 10 2011 13:01 Medrea wrote:
I understood every word MC said and every point he was trying to get across.
I can't even say that for a LOT of inner city Americans. His english is really improving. I like that he is making the effort to do it on his own, just like how Jinro learned Korean. I guess Huk said he is trying to learn Korean too, but he's not very good at it or something It's an incredibly difficult language for native English speakers. It's SO different. Wouldn't it be just as hard for Swedish people? Asian languages are not as hard as people make them out to be. The truth is that ALL languages are hard to learn. Asian languages might be slightly different, but like all other languages it's a matter of practice and application. Category III: Languages which are quite difficult for native English speakers88 weeks (2200 class hours)(about half that time preferably spent studying in-country)Arabic Cantonese Japanese KoreanMandarin Mongolian Taiwanese (Hokkien Min Nan) Wu You know Ive seen this elsewhere but I know Japanese is not very hard to learn. The entire language rests on what? 43 syllables was it? English alphabet alone is 26. Im told once all 43 syllables are learned its just a memory game. Writing it though? Forget it, Asian literacy for there own languages is terrible so I have no chance on earth. Jesus. It has nothing to do with knowing syllables or memorizing vocabulary but everything with how the language is constructed in an entirely different manner from western languages. Grammar is entirely different. Okay, let me spell it out for you, since you people clearly don't have a clue. If you were to study from a book, you could probably rate the hardest languages to learn, and the Asian languages would probably be at the top. Korean would be one of the hardest for sure in that regard. However, languages aren't learned by reading a textbook. Go to a country for a few months or years, converse with people and immerse yourself in the culture. That's how you learn ANY language to a proficient level. And it's the same for EVERY language. If you want to talk about grammar and shit, there's lots of technicalities in English grammar that 95% of English speakers fail to obey.
I'm sorry. I was just going by studies done by linguists and the time allotment of time that various bodies give their members to learn a language EVEN WHEN IMMERSED IN IT. But I'm quite certain now they're all wrong. You are clearly the authority. Someone should tell the poor linguists that the millions of dollars they've spent on research is all pointless. They could have just asked you.
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On July 10 2011 13:29 Indrium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:28 yoshi245 wrote:Let's just ignore the heated debate for a few seconds here and let me ask a relevant question. I don't want to go looking through several hundred pages to find out so if anyone knows. What time will the grand finals start tomorrow? I woke up late today and missed Puma vs. Squirtle  They said noon, but there's also going to be music performances. So the actual games will be later.
Thanks. Wait which timezone? I am guessing PST.
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On July 10 2011 13:28 yoshi245 wrote:Let's just ignore the heated debate for a few seconds here and let me ask a relevant question. I don't want to go looking through several hundred pages to find out so if anyone knows. What time will the grand finals start tomorrow? I woke up late today and missed Puma vs. Squirtle
Noon pst
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On July 10 2011 13:28 flowSthead wrote:
I don't understand at all why anyone is having a discussion about best foreigners. The entire idea of a best player in SC2 right now is ridiculous. There are a lot of amazing players at the top, both from the Korean scene and from the foreigners. And due to the current, volatile nature of SC2, no one player can be said to just easily roll over everyone the way it happens in SC1. There is no best foreigner. There is just "one of the best" foreigners. I see no problem saying Sen is one of the best foreigners, along with players like Huk and Naniwa.
You make way too much sense for this thread. Why are you posting here?
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Yep, i am pretty sure it is PST.
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On July 10 2011 13:28 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
I don't IdrA is a top player anymore even amongst Korean. His nerve issue aside, he hasn't been practicing as hard as other players do anymore and seems to be behind in the metagame.
MC 2-0'd sen at Dreamhack with blink timing attacks
The same thing IdrA lost to against MC before macro games pan out
If making infestors because MC turtles means Sen is "ahead in the metagame".... -.-
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MC has had an amazing comeback run through NASL, started off 0-3 and hasn't lost a single series since, he will decimate puma and keep his streak into next season!!!
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On July 10 2011 13:27 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:21 Serpico wrote:On July 10 2011 13:19 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 10 2011 13:16 Serpico wrote:On July 10 2011 13:15 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 10 2011 13:10 Serpico wrote:On July 10 2011 13:08 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 10 2011 13:06 Serpico wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 InvalidID wrote:On July 10 2011 13:00 eYeball wrote:
[quote]
I can see that. But Losira, DRG and Nestea are all better than sen. Clearly the best foreigner? Maybe the best foreign Zerg, but Huk has clearly established himself as the top foreigner at the moment. No, huk isn't the best foreigner at all. I'd take dimaga/throzain/sen/naniwa/idra before huk because they've been much more consistent. Really? How so? Because results over a long period of time is what separates you in starcraft....it's a marathon not a sprint. It's more like tennis or golf because there's so many events and few players can win consistently. He just isn't in as many as those guys. Thorzain won TSL but hasn't made much noise in anything else. What the hell has Dimaga done lately? Idra hasn't been tearing it up much either. He's posted decent results, but DH and HSC3 weren't too good. Sen does always do well, but so does Huk. Naniwa seems more consistent because he is in more events, but I don't think he is better than Huk considering Huk just won two tournaments Naniwa was in. Huk just won two rather large tournaments. Thats more than what those guys can say. Huk just doesn't play in as many as them so he seems like he isn't as consistent. If you dont play in more and he's only now won games in code S how are people supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt before he started winning? But we are talking about Code S. Something none of those guys are in. One game in code S is harder than the finals in MLG before Koreans were invited. And he did fight his way up from Code A too. Thats not easy. He did decent at assembly, decent at MLG Dallas, was advancing up in GSL and then won DH, HSC3 and now in round of 16 in Code S. He has done far more than Dimaga/Idra/Naniwa/Thorzain/Sen this year. But it's not, because you're using code S an excuse to not even evaluate how good the players are, just that they're in it and that's good enough. Some people have easy paths, others not. It's not black and white, just like it's not fair to say MLG never had competitive high level matches before Koreans came over. Huk is also the one that had to be seeded into code A in the first place. But it is. Look at who Huk has lost to in GSL. Inca, July, Losira, and Polt. Are they better then Kiwikaki? Hell no. Code S is by far the hardest league in the world. Code A is the next closest. If the level of play was so high at MLG Dallas, then why did Koreans take the top 3? Why have Koreans pretty much dominated every tournament they have entered? Because they are on another level.
And even Huk admitted on his stream that he is so scared of dropping to Code B because there so many good players that he might not qualify for Code A again. If a Code S player is so scared of not qualifying for Code A, it just shows how intense the competition is. In comparison, Huk tore through the Open Bracket in MLG using joke builds that let him win as fast as possible.
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Awesome, thanks for the replies.
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WHO IS IN THE FINAL? MC and who?
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On July 10 2011 13:24 openbox1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:17 Callosum wrote:On July 10 2011 13:16 ZergBonjwa wrote:On July 10 2011 13:12 Medrea wrote:On July 10 2011 13:10 deadjawa wrote:On July 10 2011 13:08 Ocedic wrote:On July 10 2011 13:06 Euronyme wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 Moonwrath wrote:On July 10 2011 13:02 Shellshock1122 wrote:On July 10 2011 13:01 Medrea wrote:
I understood every word MC said and every point he was trying to get across.
I can't even say that for a LOT of inner city Americans. His english is really improving. I like that he is making the effort to do it on his own, just like how Jinro learned Korean. I guess Huk said he is trying to learn Korean too, but he's not very good at it or something It's an incredibly difficult language for native English speakers. It's SO different. Wouldn't it be just as hard for Swedish people? Asian languages are not as hard as people make them out to be. The truth is that ALL languages are hard to learn. Asian languages might be slightly different, but like all other languages it's a matter of practice and application. Category III: Languages which are quite difficult for native English speakers88 weeks (2200 class hours)(about half that time preferably spent studying in-country)Arabic Cantonese Japanese KoreanMandarin Mongolian Taiwanese (Hokkien Min Nan) Wu You know Ive seen this elsewhere but I know Japanese is not very hard to learn. The entire language rests on what? 43 syllables was it? English alphabet alone is 26. Im told once all 43 syllables are learned its just a memory game. Writing it though? Forget it, Asian literacy for there own languages is terrible so I have no chance on earth. yea and about 2000 modern kanji GL. Heh, Kanji aren't so bad if you keep gan-ba-re'ing. When you look at the three major East-Asian languages: Korean, Japanese, and Chinese, Korean is actually the easiest to pick-up. Japanese is based on a three-alphabet system (their kids have to go through an extra year at the kindergarten/elementary level to pick up the basics). In order to even go through basic sentence construction in Chinese, you have to memorize at least a few hundred ideograms because there isn't a phonetic alphabet system. Modern Korean is actually a relatively new language (introduced circa 15th century) and was developed with ease of learning in mind.
The korean alphabet/spelling structure is considered to the be (one of the) most sophisticatedly- designed in the world in how simple yet elegant it is. It was a written language designed singlehandedly by an enlightened emperor to make the language accessible to the lower classes as the original borrowed written language (chinese) was far too complex. It's an interesting thing to read up on because the written language itself is heavily studied by many scholars.
actualy using the language? I don't know. It's not as hard as chinese, but i've heard it is still hard, especially for non-asians.
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On July 10 2011 13:31 Effen wrote:
WHO IS IN THE FINAL? MC and who?
puma
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On July 10 2011 13:11 Utinni wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:10 Crisco wrote:On July 10 2011 13:07 Utinni wrote:
Why do people say Huk is Korean. He is a foreigner who trains with Koreans... What is not to understand. If you are in the same environment you will adapt. He trains as hard as they do... that is why he can compete. foreigners are people who train outside of korea. and "Koreans" are people who train in Korea. Therefore, select is a "foreigner" and Huk is a "korean" Wrong.
Dude, don't you get it. All foreigners suck. They suck because they don't practice as much as Koreans. They need to practice more for the foreigners to get as good as the Koreans. But if one practices as much as a Korean, he doesn't become good, he morphs into a Korean. Don't you get it bro?
lol yeah it's a joke, but that's the logic.
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On July 10 2011 13:21 Legend` wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:19 Turbo.Tactics wrote:On July 10 2011 13:16 Dommk wrote:On July 10 2011 13:13 Turbo.Tactics wrote:On July 10 2011 13:10 flowSthead wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 Turbo.Tactics wrote:On July 10 2011 13:01 Condor Hero wrote:On July 10 2011 13:00 Turbo.Tactics wrote:
Can't believe I actually rely on a Terran whiping MC's butt... sad day for Zerg -.- dude if anyone can take out mc there its a korean terran. korean terrans are just scary as shit in general. Yeah sure but the fact that I have to trust on Koriterrans because Zergs aren't able to handle it is a disgrace... So Losira at MLG doesn't count for anything? Or the fact that MC is actually really good and the majority of the 16 spots were Zergs? Makes it even worst tbh. The Zergs that know lategame compositions get cheesed early, the ones that know macro style multiple harrass midgame antics get to lategame and throw it away. It's just frustrating to watch and read about how great MC plays... I am not saying he is getting free wins...all I'm saying is he shouldn't win 3 v 5 base against any Zerg that knows how to play lategame Zerg. God, you are arrogant. He is the _best_ Protoss int he world right now. It is ridiculous that you are stipulating that Zerg should just get an auto win because they manage to get 5bases. And you are a fanboy if you say MC should've won it because he is the best Tosser. He was behind tremendously and got a freewin because Sen didn't care about his armycomp. It was his game to lose and he did. Game 4 - Sen gave that game away. Game 5 - MC outplayed Sen.
Agreed! I am just disaappointed about game 4 since Sen was so far ahead and threw it away. Which is something that I see a lot of with all my Zerg heroes. This has nothing to do with balance but with MC beeing mentally stronger than his opponent. He is one of the best if not the best player right now. It's just frustrating to see for someone who is immune to MC's "smugness" >.<
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On July 10 2011 13:30 Olinim wrote:
MC has had an amazing comeback run through NASL, started off 0-3 and hasn't lost a single series since, he will decimate puma and keep his streak into next season!!!
Don't forget that his first game was only a walkover too.
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On July 10 2011 13:12 Ocedic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:10 deadjawa wrote:On July 10 2011 13:08 Ocedic wrote:On July 10 2011 13:06 Euronyme wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 Moonwrath wrote:On July 10 2011 13:02 Shellshock1122 wrote:On July 10 2011 13:01 Medrea wrote:
I understood every word MC said and every point he was trying to get across.
I can't even say that for a LOT of inner city Americans. His english is really improving. I like that he is making the effort to do it on his own, just like how Jinro learned Korean. I guess Huk said he is trying to learn Korean too, but he's not very good at it or something It's an incredibly difficult language for native English speakers. It's SO different. Wouldn't it be just as hard for Swedish people? Asian languages are not as hard as people make them out to be. The truth is that ALL languages are hard to learn. Asian languages might be slightly different, but like all other languages it's a matter of practice and application. Category III: Languages which are quite difficult for native English speakers88 weeks (2200 class hours)(about half that time preferably spent studying in-country)Arabic Cantonese Japanese KoreanMandarin Mongolian Taiwanese (Hokkien Min Nan) Wu Did I say it was easy? If you think learning any foreign language you have zero exposure to is easy, then by all means go pick up German, Italian, Latin, whatever and see how 'easy' it is. I said all languages are tough and take time.
People mean that those languages are hard relative to Westerners. Languages like Portugese, Italian, French, Spanish, etc have many similar words or root words that make them easier to pick up on for English speakers. They also have much more similar grammar structure, which is a huge factor.
For people from Asia, it would be much easier to learn other Asian languages than Romance languages or Germanic langauges because of the exact same reasons as above.
On July 10 2011 13:12 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:10 deadjawa wrote:On July 10 2011 13:08 Ocedic wrote:On July 10 2011 13:06 Euronyme wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 Moonwrath wrote:On July 10 2011 13:02 Shellshock1122 wrote:On July 10 2011 13:01 Medrea wrote:
I understood every word MC said and every point he was trying to get across.
I can't even say that for a LOT of inner city Americans. His english is really improving. I like that he is making the effort to do it on his own, just like how Jinro learned Korean. I guess Huk said he is trying to learn Korean too, but he's not very good at it or something It's an incredibly difficult language for native English speakers. It's SO different. Wouldn't it be just as hard for Swedish people? Asian languages are not as hard as people make them out to be. The truth is that ALL languages are hard to learn. Asian languages might be slightly different, but like all other languages it's a matter of practice and application. Category III: Languages which are quite difficult for native English speakers88 weeks (2200 class hours)(about half that time preferably spent studying in-country)Arabic Cantonese Japanese KoreanMandarin Mongolian Taiwanese (Hokkien Min Nan) Wu You know Ive seen this elsewhere but I know Japanese is not very hard to learn. The entire language rests on what? 43 syllables was it? English alphabet alone is 26. Im told once all 43 syllables are learned its just a memory game. Writing it though? Forget it, Asian literacy for there own languages is terrible so I have no chance on earth.
Uh, you can only "know" that Japanese is not very hard to learn if you have already learned it yourself. And even then, that would only be relative to you.
Also, the difficulty in Japanese isnt on the syllables. The grammar structure is what makes it more difficult imo (Ive taken 4 years worth of college level Japanese and have been to Japan several times). If you want to say, "I thought he was going to the bathroom" in Japanese, the structure would be "He was bathroom going to I thought." Sure even this seems just like a "memory game" in the classroom, but once you go to Japan and you gotta think on your feet while people are speaking to you, treating it like a memory game rather than understanding the grammatical structure is going to make you take like 30 seconds to respond in even relatively simple conversation.
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On July 10 2011 13:25 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:20 Utinni wrote:On July 10 2011 13:14 oriox wrote:On July 10 2011 13:12 Sc2Null wrote:On July 10 2011 13:10 Crisco wrote:On July 10 2011 13:07 Utinni wrote:
Why do people say Huk is Korean. He is a foreigner who trains with Koreans... What is not to understand. If you are in the same environment you will adapt. He trains as hard as they do... that is why he can compete. foreigners are people who train outside of korea. and "Koreans" are people who train in Korea. Therefore, select is a "foreigner" and Huk is a "korean" Koreans are people who are born in Korea..sorry to burst your flawed logic lol. it's quite obvious he is referring to a term "Korean" as used in Starcraft to associate skill and experience levels, not national origin. The term is silly. You can say he is Korean trained... It still doesn't change the fact he is a foreigner. Like someone was saying earlier. You have soccer players playing in different countries... are they spanish since they play in barcelona? No they are a foreigner to that country no matter what. Calling them a term they are not does not make it so. Huk is American/Canadian starcraft 2 player training in Korea. For the last time. IT'S A STARCRAFT TERM. (Sorry for the caps lock) There are other terms you could say the same thing about. Cheese for instance. "Derp derp derp cheese is what you eat. What do they mean they "cheese" someone? Bah it doesn't matter that it means something else in this game, it's still a dairy product." It's not unimaginably complicated.
I never said it wasn't a starcraft term. I said it was silly. It's what YOU classify him as. Ask Huk, if he thinks he's korean. I doubt he will say, "yes I am korean". He might say he is a foreigner with korean training though.
and I still think the term is silly.
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On July 10 2011 13:24 happyness wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:13 Turbo.Tactics wrote:On July 10 2011 13:10 flowSthead wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 Turbo.Tactics wrote:On July 10 2011 13:01 Condor Hero wrote:On July 10 2011 13:00 Turbo.Tactics wrote:
Can't believe I actually rely on a Terran whiping MC's butt... sad day for Zerg -.- dude if anyone can take out mc there its a korean terran. korean terrans are just scary as shit in general. Yeah sure but the fact that I have to trust on Koriterrans because Zergs aren't able to handle it is a disgrace... So Losira at MLG doesn't count for anything? Or the fact that MC is actually really good and the majority of the 16 spots were Zergs? Makes it even worst tbh. The Zergs that know lategame compositions get cheesed early, the ones that know macro style multiple harrass midgame antics get to lategame and throw it away. It's just frustrating to watch and read about how great MC plays... I am not saying he is getting free wins...all I'm saying is he shouldn't win 3 v 5 base against any Zerg that knows how to play lategame Zerg. Your understanding of the game is shallow. 3v5 bases does not and should not equal auto win for any zerg. The last game Sen lost because MC's control was much better and his DT harass was brilliant. The game before that sen made like 12+ broodlords and no anti air. Sen probably would have beat any other protoss in those late game situations, but he's playing against MC, the best player in the world right now
I totally agree with you because even if you have all 5 bases lets look at the facts, one base is mined out 2-3 is actually mining and the rest are just there used as macro hatches they are just there in case Sen mines out in his other bases or one actually dies. So it was good of MC to actually expose those defenseless expos of Sen and made sure that those Hatcheries would come to haunt him if he didnt kill them. Both players made huge mistakes at the wrong times.
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On July 10 2011 13:22 Yemack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:21 AsianEcksDragon wrote:On July 10 2011 13:13 Crisco wrote:On July 10 2011 13:08 Ocedic wrote:On July 10 2011 13:06 Euronyme wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 Moonwrath wrote:On July 10 2011 13:02 Shellshock1122 wrote:On July 10 2011 13:01 Medrea wrote:
I understood every word MC said and every point he was trying to get across.
I can't even say that for a LOT of inner city Americans. His english is really improving. I like that he is making the effort to do it on his own, just like how Jinro learned Korean. I guess Huk said he is trying to learn Korean too, but he's not very good at it or something It's an incredibly difficult language for native English speakers. It's SO different. Wouldn't it be just as hard for Swedish people? Asian languages are not as hard as people make them out to be. The truth is that ALL languages are hard to learn. Asian languages might be slightly different, but like all other languages it's a matter of practice and application. The entire grammar structure is different and that takes getting used to. If you were to say "I ate Dinner" in Korean, it is structured "I the dinner ate." I think mandarin is the easiest to learn by far. For the other languages, It's not that hard to be able to learn enough for everyday conversation but being proficient is tough. Chinese is like the latin of East Asian languages so knowing chinese would help. lol no chinese I think is the hardest language to learn in entire world.
Well judging from that poster's handle he's probably Asian-American (as am I in case you were wondering from my handle).
Both Chinese and Japanese have grammatical structures that don't exist in English, which makes it very difficult to learn.
Chinese is also a tonal language, which is complicated by the fact that the tones for words aren't fixed, but can change for context (no one could pronounce it if you managed to have a sentence with say... 8 of the same tone in a row for example).
Japanese isn't tonal,and I believe it's considered a pretty easy language when it comes to pronunciation and does have a phoenetic alphabet (along with other writing systems, that I don't actually know how they all interact).
But Japanese is a very unique language so has a lot of quirks that you won't find in other languages (see, constant linguistic debates on classifying which family of languages it belongs to).
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On July 10 2011 13:27 Ocedic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:20 Sideburn wrote:On July 10 2011 13:12 Medrea wrote:On July 10 2011 13:10 deadjawa wrote:On July 10 2011 13:08 Ocedic wrote:On July 10 2011 13:06 Euronyme wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 Moonwrath wrote:On July 10 2011 13:02 Shellshock1122 wrote:On July 10 2011 13:01 Medrea wrote:
I understood every word MC said and every point he was trying to get across.
I can't even say that for a LOT of inner city Americans. His english is really improving. I like that he is making the effort to do it on his own, just like how Jinro learned Korean. I guess Huk said he is trying to learn Korean too, but he's not very good at it or something It's an incredibly difficult language for native English speakers. It's SO different. Wouldn't it be just as hard for Swedish people? Asian languages are not as hard as people make them out to be. The truth is that ALL languages are hard to learn. Asian languages might be slightly different, but like all other languages it's a matter of practice and application. Category III: Languages which are quite difficult for native English speakers88 weeks (2200 class hours)(about half that time preferably spent studying in-country)Arabic Cantonese Japanese KoreanMandarin Mongolian Taiwanese (Hokkien Min Nan) Wu You know Ive seen this elsewhere but I know Japanese is not very hard to learn. The entire language rests on what? 43 syllables was it? English alphabet alone is 26. Im told once all 43 syllables are learned its just a memory game. Writing it though? Forget it, Asian literacy for there own languages is terrible so I have no chance on earth. Jesus. It has nothing to do with knowing syllables or memorizing vocabulary but everything with how the language is constructed in an entirely different manner from western languages. Grammar is entirely different. Okay, let me spell it out for you, since you people clearly don't have a clue. If you were to study from a book, you could probably rate the hardest languages to learn, and the Asian languages would probably be at the top. Korean would be one of the hardest for sure in that regard. However, languages aren't learned by reading a textbook. Go to a country for a few months or years, converse with people and immerse yourself in the culture. That's how you learn ANY language to a proficient level. And it's the same for EVERY language. If you want to talk about grammar and shit, there's lots of technicalities in English grammar that 95% of English speakers fail to obey.
I was actually told by my language teacher that English is a very hard language to learn in general as it has so many exceptions to its rules. German for instance has almost no exceptions, which makes it alot easier to learn, as once you learn to basics you can apply it to almost everything.
Who came up with the pronounciation of the city Slough for instance. A German / Swedish person would want to pronounce that as Slo-ugh (sounds like a neanderthal lol).. Instead it's something like Slao.
Appearantly Danish children learn to speak last in the entire world, so maybe Danish is the hardest language, objectively speaking.
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EPT
