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Stop being so silly over women in esports. Rude comments will be banned for! (from page 78). Be sure to keep the topic excellent, please! |
On July 10 2011 13:25 Coutcha wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:24 Cryhavoc wrote:On July 10 2011 13:23 BryanSC wrote:On July 10 2011 13:21 Cryhavoc wrote:On July 10 2011 13:19 KimJongChill wrote:On July 10 2011 13:18 Cryhavoc wrote:On July 10 2011 13:18 openbox1 wrote:
well at least the final isn't a pvp or tvt. Thank god for that. or zvz It will never be ZvZ. Zergs aren't consistent enough yet to have two get that far in one tournament. Zerg isn't supposed to beat Protoss right I don't know let me call up Gregory. What the fuck is Gregory Idra xD
Grackory.
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On July 10 2011 13:23 ZergBonjwa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:19 Medrea wrote:On July 10 2011 13:16 ZergBonjwa wrote:On July 10 2011 13:12 Medrea wrote:On July 10 2011 13:10 deadjawa wrote:On July 10 2011 13:08 Ocedic wrote:On July 10 2011 13:06 Euronyme wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 Moonwrath wrote:On July 10 2011 13:02 Shellshock1122 wrote:On July 10 2011 13:01 Medrea wrote:
I understood every word MC said and every point he was trying to get across.
I can't even say that for a LOT of inner city Americans. His english is really improving. I like that he is making the effort to do it on his own, just like how Jinro learned Korean. I guess Huk said he is trying to learn Korean too, but he's not very good at it or something It's an incredibly difficult language for native English speakers. It's SO different. Wouldn't it be just as hard for Swedish people? Asian languages are not as hard as people make them out to be. The truth is that ALL languages are hard to learn. Asian languages might be slightly different, but like all other languages it's a matter of practice and application. Category III: Languages which are quite difficult for native English speakers88 weeks (2200 class hours)(about half that time preferably spent studying in-country)Arabic Cantonese Japanese KoreanMandarin Mongolian Taiwanese (Hokkien Min Nan) Wu You know Ive seen this elsewhere but I know Japanese is not very hard to learn. The entire language rests on what? 43 syllables was it? English alphabet alone is 26. Im told once all 43 syllables are learned its just a memory game. Writing it though? Forget it, Asian literacy for there own languages is terrible so I have no chance on earth. yea and about 2000 modern kanji GL. Fuck Kanji. That's written form. Not even the natives use Kanji outside of fairly formal writing. The literacy rates of Kanji is awful and if you watch any anime they poke fun at how not understandable it is all the time. I dont know outside of Japan but inside of it Hirigana and Katakana I think are like the only two written forms that are particularly used. Furigana is a new form which I think is Kanji with those small Hirigana characters describing the ambiguities between the Kanji. I should prob double check on wiki though. Thank god we live in this time. Yea it's true but when you are learning in school and university you must learn the kanji. Also to read newspaper and stuff. Japanese is actually quite easy though, maybe 2 years of studying and you can go to Japan and be 90% fluent.
2 years huh? Hmmm thats not so bad. For 90 percent fluency? I could totally see myself doing that.
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On July 10 2011 13:25 AxionSteel wrote:10 Protoss Canada HuK Liquid $30,799.00 20 Zerg USA IdrA EG $20,801.00 At the end of the day, HuK laughs all the way to the bank 
Still nothing compared to Makes Cash.
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On July 10 2011 13:20 Sideburn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:12 Medrea wrote:On July 10 2011 13:10 deadjawa wrote:On July 10 2011 13:08 Ocedic wrote:On July 10 2011 13:06 Euronyme wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 Moonwrath wrote:On July 10 2011 13:02 Shellshock1122 wrote:On July 10 2011 13:01 Medrea wrote:
I understood every word MC said and every point he was trying to get across.
I can't even say that for a LOT of inner city Americans. His english is really improving. I like that he is making the effort to do it on his own, just like how Jinro learned Korean. I guess Huk said he is trying to learn Korean too, but he's not very good at it or something It's an incredibly difficult language for native English speakers. It's SO different. Wouldn't it be just as hard for Swedish people? Asian languages are not as hard as people make them out to be. The truth is that ALL languages are hard to learn. Asian languages might be slightly different, but like all other languages it's a matter of practice and application. Category III: Languages which are quite difficult for native English speakers88 weeks (2200 class hours)(about half that time preferably spent studying in-country)Arabic Cantonese Japanese KoreanMandarin Mongolian Taiwanese (Hokkien Min Nan) Wu You know Ive seen this elsewhere but I know Japanese is not very hard to learn. The entire language rests on what? 43 syllables was it? English alphabet alone is 26. Im told once all 43 syllables are learned its just a memory game. Writing it though? Forget it, Asian literacy for there own languages is terrible so I have no chance on earth. Jesus. It has nothing to do with knowing syllables or memorizing vocabulary but everything with how the language is constructed in an entirely different manner from western languages. Grammar is entirely different.
Okay, let me spell it out for you, since you people clearly don't have a clue. If you were to study from a book, you could probably rate the hardest languages to learn, and the Asian languages would probably be at the top. Korean would be one of the hardest for sure in that regard. However, languages aren't learned by reading a textbook.
Go to a country for a few months or years, converse with people and immerse yourself in the culture. That's how you learn ANY language to a proficient level. And it's the same for EVERY language.
If you want to talk about grammar and shit, there's lots of technicalities in English grammar that 95% of English speakers fail to obey.
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On July 10 2011 13:21 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:19 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 10 2011 13:16 Serpico wrote:On July 10 2011 13:15 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 10 2011 13:10 Serpico wrote:On July 10 2011 13:08 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 10 2011 13:06 Serpico wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 InvalidID wrote:On July 10 2011 13:00 eYeball wrote:On July 10 2011 12:58 KimJongChill wrote:
Sen is clearly the best foreigner, and would probably be in the top 5 zergs in Korea as well. I really only see Nestea better than him, and maybe Losira and DRG. Wow, I'm a Sen fan now @_@"" I can see that. But Losira, DRG and Nestea are all better than sen. Clearly the best foreigner? Maybe the best foreign Zerg, but Huk has clearly established himself as the top foreigner at the moment. No, huk isn't the best foreigner at all. I'd take dimaga/throzain/sen/naniwa/idra before huk because they've been much more consistent. Really? How so? Because results over a long period of time is what separates you in starcraft....it's a marathon not a sprint. It's more like tennis or golf because there's so many events and few players can win consistently. He just isn't in as many as those guys. Thorzain won TSL but hasn't made much noise in anything else. What the hell has Dimaga done lately? Idra hasn't been tearing it up much either. He's posted decent results, but DH and HSC3 weren't too good. Sen does always do well, but so does Huk. Naniwa seems more consistent because he is in more events, but I don't think he is better than Huk considering Huk just won two tournaments Naniwa was in. Huk just won two rather large tournaments. Thats more than what those guys can say. Huk just doesn't play in as many as them so he seems like he isn't as consistent. If you dont play in more and he's only now won games in code S how are people supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt before he started winning? But we are talking about Code S. Something none of those guys are in. One game in code S is harder than the finals in MLG before Koreans were invited. And he did fight his way up from Code A too. Thats not easy. He did decent at assembly, decent at MLG Dallas, was advancing up in GSL and then won DH, HSC3 and now in round of 16 in Code S. He has done far more than Dimaga/Idra/Naniwa/Thorzain/Sen this year. But it's not, because you're using code S an excuse to not even evaluate how good the players are, just that they're in it and that's good enough. Some people have easy paths, others not. It's not black and white, just like it's not fair to say MLG never had competitive high level matches before Koreans came over. Huk is also the one that had to be seeded into code A in the first place.
But it is. Look at who Huk has lost to in GSL. Inca, July, Losira, and Polt. Is Kiwikaki better than them? Hell no. Code S is by far the hardest league in the world. Code A is the next closest.
If the level of play was so high at MLG Dallas, then why did Koreans take the top 3? Why have Koreans pretty much dominated every tournament they have entered? Because they are on another level.
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On July 10 2011 13:20 Utinni wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:14 oriox wrote:On July 10 2011 13:12 Sc2Null wrote:On July 10 2011 13:10 Crisco wrote:On July 10 2011 13:07 Utinni wrote:
Why do people say Huk is Korean. He is a foreigner who trains with Koreans... What is not to understand. If you are in the same environment you will adapt. He trains as hard as they do... that is why he can compete. foreigners are people who train outside of korea. and "Koreans" are people who train in Korea. Therefore, select is a "foreigner" and Huk is a "korean" Koreans are people who are born in Korea..sorry to burst your flawed logic lol. it's quite obvious he is referring to a term "Korean" as used in Starcraft to associate skill and experience levels, not national origin. The term is silly. You can say he is Korean trained... It still doesn't change the fact he is a foreigner. Like someone was saying earlier. You have soccer players playing in different countries... are they spanish since they play in barcelona? No they are a foreigner to that country no matter what. Calling them a term they are not does not make it so. Huk is American/Canadian starcraft 2 player training in Korea.
this discussion has never been about nationality or genetics. its about korean scene and the foreigner scene. huk participates significantly less frequently in foreigner tournaments. MC participates in more foreigner tournaments than huk actually.
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On July 10 2011 13:25 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:24 Cryhavoc wrote:On July 10 2011 13:23 BryanSC wrote:On July 10 2011 13:21 Cryhavoc wrote:On July 10 2011 13:19 KimJongChill wrote:On July 10 2011 13:18 Cryhavoc wrote:On July 10 2011 13:18 openbox1 wrote:
well at least the final isn't a pvp or tvt. Thank god for that. or zvz It will never be ZvZ. Zergs aren't consistent enough yet to have two get that far in one tournament. Zerg isn't supposed to beat Protoss right I don't know let me call up Gregory. What the fuck is Gregory That is Idras first name
thank for the information i didnt know
rofl
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On July 10 2011 13:23 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:20 Sideburn wrote:On July 10 2011 13:12 Medrea wrote:On July 10 2011 13:10 deadjawa wrote:On July 10 2011 13:08 Ocedic wrote:On July 10 2011 13:06 Euronyme wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 Moonwrath wrote:On July 10 2011 13:02 Shellshock1122 wrote:On July 10 2011 13:01 Medrea wrote:
I understood every word MC said and every point he was trying to get across.
I can't even say that for a LOT of inner city Americans. His english is really improving. I like that he is making the effort to do it on his own, just like how Jinro learned Korean. I guess Huk said he is trying to learn Korean too, but he's not very good at it or something It's an incredibly difficult language for native English speakers. It's SO different. Wouldn't it be just as hard for Swedish people? Asian languages are not as hard as people make them out to be. The truth is that ALL languages are hard to learn. Asian languages might be slightly different, but like all other languages it's a matter of practice and application. Category III: Languages which are quite difficult for native English speakers88 weeks (2200 class hours)(about half that time preferably spent studying in-country)Arabic Cantonese Japanese KoreanMandarin Mongolian Taiwanese (Hokkien Min Nan) Wu You know Ive seen this elsewhere but I know Japanese is not very hard to learn. The entire language rests on what? 43 syllables was it? English alphabet alone is 26. Im told once all 43 syllables are learned its just a memory game. Writing it though? Forget it, Asian literacy for there own languages is terrible so I have no chance on earth. Jesus. It has nothing to do with knowing syllables or memorizing vocabulary but everything with how the language is constructed in an entirely different manner from western languages. Grammar is entirely different. You can chop shop the grammar, theyll get it. Same thing happens going to english remember?
What? Isn't the point of the discussion which languages are harder to learn coming from different language backgrounds? Where Korean is DEMONSTRABLY a harder language to learn, even for koreans?
Yeah, you can chop shop the grammar. If your point is that any language is easy to speak poorly, I would agree. Sure.
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Can someone explain what's going on? is the stream done for tonight? I figure from this thread that MC just beat sen, but that should be the semi-finals, right? Is the finals tomorrow?
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
On July 10 2011 13:17 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:16 InvalidID wrote:On July 10 2011 13:14 stork4ever wrote:
Not at all now, HuK just won two very big events. But before that all he had to his name was MLG.
And what to thier names do the other people have??? I'm sorry I'm love Idra and Sen but Huk just won tournaments that featured the very best players in the foreign and arguably the world. He is training with the top players in the world. More importantly due to his skill, he no longer has to carry MC's bags. Lol "all he had to his name was MLG", what about the big fat "Code S". Until another foreigner can prove that they can compete on the GSL Code S level, then Huk will remain, in my eyes at least, the top foreign player. Jinro was for awhile, but he has since sadly fallen off. If just being good enough for code S means you're the best foreigner...I think you simply overestimate code S by leap and bounds or think huk is superman. I wouldn't take him in a bo7 against sen/dimaga/naniwa/thorzain.
I would say huk/sen/naniwa/thorzain are about the same but definitely not dimaga
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On July 10 2011 13:27 rolled64 wrote:
can someone explain what's going on? is the stream done for tonight? is the tournament over? I figure from this thread that MC just beat sen, but that should be the semi-finals, right? Is the finals tomorrow?
NASL's done for the night, finals are tomorrow 
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I don't IdrA is a top player anymore even amongst Korean. His nerve issue aside, he hasn't been practicing as hard as other players do anymore and seems to be behind in the metagame.
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That is Idras first name
I thought he changed his name to Grack.
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On July 10 2011 13:24 happyness wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:13 Turbo.Tactics wrote:On July 10 2011 13:10 flowSthead wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 Turbo.Tactics wrote:On July 10 2011 13:01 Condor Hero wrote:On July 10 2011 13:00 Turbo.Tactics wrote:
Can't believe I actually rely on a Terran whiping MC's butt... sad day for Zerg -.- dude if anyone can take out mc there its a korean terran. korean terrans are just scary as shit in general. Yeah sure but the fact that I have to trust on Koriterrans because Zergs aren't able to handle it is a disgrace... So Losira at MLG doesn't count for anything? Or the fact that MC is actually really good and the majority of the 16 spots were Zergs? Makes it even worst tbh. The Zergs that know lategame compositions get cheesed early, the ones that know macro style multiple harrass midgame antics get to lategame and throw it away. It's just frustrating to watch and read about how great MC plays... I am not saying he is getting free wins...all I'm saying is he shouldn't win 3 v 5 base against any Zerg that knows how to play lategame Zerg. Your understanding of the game is shallow. 3v5 bases does not and should not equal auto win for any zerg. The last game Sen lost because MC's control was much better and his DT harass was brilliant. The game before that sen made like 12+ broodlords and no anti air. Sen probably would have beat any other protoss in those late game situations, but he's playing against MC, the best player in the world right now
I usually don't argue semantics, but the guy did say any Zerg that knows how to play lategame Zerg, and you kind of ignored that... (somewhat important detail)
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Let's just ignore the heated debate for a few seconds here and let me ask a relevant question. I don't want to go looking through several hundred pages to find out so if anyone knows. What time will the grand finals start tomorrow? I woke up late today and missed Puma vs. Squirtle 
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I don't understand at all why anyone is having a discussion about best foreigners. The entire idea of a best player in SC2 right now is ridiculous. There are a lot of amazing players at the top, both from the Korean scene and from the foreigners. And due to the current, volatile nature of SC2, no one player can be said to just easily roll over everyone the way it happens in SC1. There is no best foreigner. There is just "one of the best" foreigners. I see no problem saying Sen is one of the best foreigners, along with players like Huk and Naniwa.
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On July 10 2011 13:24 openbox1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:17 Callosum wrote:On July 10 2011 13:16 ZergBonjwa wrote:On July 10 2011 13:12 Medrea wrote:On July 10 2011 13:10 deadjawa wrote:On July 10 2011 13:08 Ocedic wrote:On July 10 2011 13:06 Euronyme wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 Moonwrath wrote:On July 10 2011 13:02 Shellshock1122 wrote:On July 10 2011 13:01 Medrea wrote:
I understood every word MC said and every point he was trying to get across.
I can't even say that for a LOT of inner city Americans. His english is really improving. I like that he is making the effort to do it on his own, just like how Jinro learned Korean. I guess Huk said he is trying to learn Korean too, but he's not very good at it or something It's an incredibly difficult language for native English speakers. It's SO different. Wouldn't it be just as hard for Swedish people? Asian languages are not as hard as people make them out to be. The truth is that ALL languages are hard to learn. Asian languages might be slightly different, but like all other languages it's a matter of practice and application. Category III: Languages which are quite difficult for native English speakers88 weeks (2200 class hours)(about half that time preferably spent studying in-country)Arabic Cantonese Japanese KoreanMandarin Mongolian Taiwanese (Hokkien Min Nan) Wu You know Ive seen this elsewhere but I know Japanese is not very hard to learn. The entire language rests on what? 43 syllables was it? English alphabet alone is 26. Im told once all 43 syllables are learned its just a memory game. Writing it though? Forget it, Asian literacy for there own languages is terrible so I have no chance on earth. yea and about 2000 modern kanji GL. Heh, Kanji aren't so bad if you keep gan-ba-re'ing. When you look at the three major East-Asian languages: Korean, Japanese, and Chinese, Korean is actually the easiest to pick-up. Japanese is based on a three-alphabet system (their kids have to go through an extra year at the kindergarten/elementary level to pick up the basics). In order to even go through basic sentence construction in Chinese, you have to memorize at least a few hundred ideograms because there isn't a phonetic alphabet system. Modern Korean is actually a relatively new language (introduced circa 15th century) and was developed with ease of learning in mind.
wow you know what you are talking about actually.
I learned how to read Japanese and koreans pretty easily. Japanese.. it just memorization of letters. Korean.. logic based system. (btw grammar in both language are incredibly hard for english speaking person)
chinese though.. I gave up. This isn't something you just pick it up on your free time.
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On July 10 2011 13:28 yoshi245 wrote:Let's just ignore the heated debate for a few seconds here and let me ask a relevant question. I don't want to go looking through several hundred pages to find out so if anyone knows. What time will the grand finals start tomorrow? I woke up late today and missed Puma vs. Squirtle
They said noon, but there's also going to be music performances. So the actual games will be later.
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On July 10 2011 13:14 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 13:12 Dommk wrote:On July 10 2011 13:04 Turbo.Tactics wrote:On July 10 2011 13:01 Condor Hero wrote:On July 10 2011 13:00 Turbo.Tactics wrote:
Can't believe I actually rely on a Terran whiping MC's butt... sad day for Zerg -.- dude if anyone can take out mc there its a korean terran. korean terrans are just scary as shit in general. Yeah sure but the fact that I have to trust on Koriterrans because Zergs aren't able to handle it is a disgrace... You have the best Protoss in the world arguable facing a good Zerg but who isn't the same skill level as him, but MC still had some tough games and should have lost if Sen didn't make so many Broods, yet you passively cry about balance? Imagine if that was NesTea or DRG playing, MC would have got rolled. ZvP feels like its favored towards Zerg, the best Toss right now shouldn't be sweating it against anyone other than the best Zergs really Can you seriously say that the level of SEn play today wasn't in the same boat than Losira or Nestea ZvP ? These games were insane.
Sen played very well in many aspects, and no doubt he deserved to be in the top few for NASL... but mainly he studied and countered MC's builds that have been very well known lately. 1 Gate fast expand stargate. Hmmm, make spore crawlers and lots of queens, maybe fast hydras or muta/corruptor. If he goes for a dark templar rush, your spores cover you. Yep, that sums up the opening pretty well I'd say.
The thing I admired Sen for doing well was countering smoothly and not being too greedy early on (waiting till last minute to build a spore... or only one spore for 3 bases, etc.). That got him into the late game sitting pretty. Stargate is a risky tech if Zerg desides to plan for it, because late game infestors/banes/broodlords are hard to deal with. Vs Fungal, blink becomes semi-useless and air becomes semi-useless. What then? Bane drops vs. forcefields and fungals are rough. Forcefields counter banelings only early on... later baneling drops counter sentries unless the Protoss has breathing room to FF retreat and the Zerg doesn't smartly back off to allow wasted sentry energy.
Protoss needs perfect psi storms, instant reaction time against bane drops on probes, and a little luck with dark templars or something. Sums up the end of the last couple of games pretty well I'd say.
So it's no wonder so many Protoss are going for 2 base all-ins vs Zerg most of the time. MC probably should have tried it at least one game.
But Sen's big battle micro was lacking... his engagements were often not carefully done and it along with other mistakes cost him. NesTea would have had better engagements and wouldn't lose to dark templars, especially once he saw the tech out.
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On July 10 2011 13:28 stork4ever wrote:I thought he changed his name to Grack.
its the GvG guy
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EPT
