On June 28 2011 16:25 WindCalibur wrote: MMA overrated. Can't believe he lost to dts twice. A turret isn't just for DTs you know. It can be used to deny the ob seeing your army size.
How is runner up in the ST, winner of MLG, and MVP of the past two GSTLs overrated...
Because, MLG is just a competition of which Korean wins now. He only beat Losira and July (only in the sense of only 2 players), two Zergs, yes his TvZ is quite awesome. In the Super Tournament he got to the finals on all TvT. Bullshit. MVP of the past two GSTLs great. That's Team Leagues. Not Individual Leagues. They do not correlate.
He's overrated because blind people expected him just roll over this Protoss. But non fan boys would have actually predicted this win, just like b_unnies did.
So by that logic, IMMvp is overrated too. Thanks for clearing that up. Does anyone even remember MMA 2-0'd some protoss called TopClass last season's code A, and Kiwikaki at MLG for that matter? Before MLG Columbus, most people would have said Kiwi>>>Sheth so that Koreans>foreigners doesn't really cut it for me in this instance. Or did anyone see the sick factory wall off he used in game 1 tonight which allowed him to win a fight he shouldn't have (although he was still way behind afterward).
In short, MMA needs to play a little less risky still and he can dominate players like Puzzle. Coming behind 0-2 to MKP to win a bo5 is not a fluke, plus all of those other achievements. Now, I'm done defending MMA for a month, since I won't see him play for that long /cry.
On June 28 2011 16:30 HolyArrow wrote: Does Puzzle have any other results?
He was the best player in the Zotac regular season going 13-4 with all kills over both oGs (Ensnare, Hyperdub, MC, Cezanne) and IM (MVP, Losira, Yonghwa, Yoda).
More recently was runner up in iCCup's last korean weekly.
He's been a beast forever, just has nerve issues. Much like TSL's Puma actually, the latter is playing amazingly lately in online events but still isn't in the GSL
I'll just quote this to educate people on Puzzle.
Also, this means that Sheth can get to the Semi's on solely ZvP, his best match up. Puzzle will be hard, but the winner of Tails Vanvans won't be as much.
Come on, drop the fanboyism, both games were brilliantly played by puzzle, and both were fantastic games why do they have so many No votes ;>
IM should steal this guy, he's not zenex material.
I was just wondering why the games have so many yes votes. DT's killing scv's and securing a huge lead isn't very exciting. All of the hair raising stuff in game 1 was done by MMA. I voted no simply to offset all the MMA haters. What has the guy ever done to deserve hate? Get fans? Beat MKP? That's MKP's problem, just as not having turrets was MMA's problem.
Because fanboys hype MMA as a master of the universe after winning MLG and beating 5 terrans in ST. Yes I got a problem with that. TvT godlike not, 0-4 Polt, plz beat mvp and Bomber . TvZ awesome not, have fun beating LosirA. TvP bad, sure, but I'd say disastrous. What else does he got ? Sure I love his multitasking, multiprongs drop, clutch plays but that do not save the day. Some may say even DRG or StC arent in Code A, but once they are in code A, I can only see them go straight for the championship (see Bomber), not dropping out like this
On June 28 2011 16:27 TERRANLOL wrote: I don't feel like puzzle was that good. He just opened DTs and won.
?? He dealt with MMA's cheesy rush then counter pressured, and beautifully transitioned to DTs. I was amazed at his Macro. Remember these games move a lot faster than your average ladder games. I still have no idea how Puzzle had spent so much money and time pressuring with sentries/stalkers yet could afford the council and dark shrine off of two base. With just 3 gates. (I could be wrong on that) Oh and Colossus and support bay as well. All the while MMA couldn't multitask a d*ck (see all those pointless/clueless medivacs and utter lack of map control/scouting) and couldn't find a time to build a turret. Instead he panicked and got totally lost on the map.
If anything Puzzle played safe probably expecting MMA's rush/cheese, and won with superior macro and strategy.
On June 28 2011 16:25 WindCalibur wrote: MMA overrated. Can't believe he lost to dts twice. A turret isn't just for DTs you know. It can be used to deny the ob seeing your army size.
How is runner up in the ST, winner of MLG, and MVP of the past two GSTLs, where he beat the likes of MVP, MC, July, Squirtle, sC, and DRG, considered overrated...
Lets see.
Shall we start with MLG? First of all, if you watched his replays, you notice two important things. 1. He likes to do risky openings. 2. His mechanics are not so great.
He may not be aware of the first point, which is understandable since if you watched his old games before MLG, his openings are somewhat risky but his opponent never truly took advantage of that. I will emphasize on this point later.
His mechanics are weak. Don't believe me? Watch his games on MLG (use the replays) and just see how frequent he forgets supplies, sometimes forgetting to make scvs, and also mis-control his multi-prong attacks. I know it is hard to multitask that well and many people can't, but he supply blocks himself even when the opponents do not pressure him. If Bomber can not get supply blocked, then I expect MMA to not to especially after all the praise he gets.
So we have a player who does risky things where sometimes it pays off. Now lets get to the super tournament.
It is true that he got into the grand finals, but he was unbelievably shaky in the games he played. There are many games where if you watched the games, you would not think it is MMA playing (if you rate him that high). Also, the super tournament exposed his weaknesses. Polt analyzed and abused MMA's style and roflstomped him.
And now, lets go with drop play.
There are a lot of games where MMA's drops could be easily intercepted and killed. There are also many times where the drops do not do enough damage. Most of the time, it is not because of MMA that this is happening, but rather it depends on how his opponent respond. His drop style, though tasks the multitasking abilities of his opponent, rely on his opponent to make mistakes. Again, this goes back to his risky playstyle.
And now we see that his adaptability is horrible and he seems to have trouble playing outside his usual style. He lost to DTs twice. I know the second game was understandable because he thought it was a 6 gate but still, if he is good as everyone says he is, then dts should not kill him.
Get over it. MMA is overrated. It does not mean that he won't become powerful later on but it's sickening on how high people rate MMA.
On June 28 2011 16:25 WindCalibur wrote: MMA overrated. Can't believe he lost to dts twice. A turret isn't just for DTs you know. It can be used to deny the ob seeing your army size.
How is runner up in the ST, winner of MLG, and MVP of the past two GSTLs overrated...
Because, MLG is just a competition of which Korean wins now. He only beat Losira and July (only in the sense of only 2 players), two Zergs, yes his TvZ is quite awesome. In the Super Tournament he got to the finals on all TvT. Bullshit. MVP of the past two GSTLs great. That's Team Leagues. Not Individual Leagues. They do not correlate.
He's overrated because blind people expected him just roll over this Protoss. But non fan boys would have actually predicted this win, just like b_unnies did.
So by that logic, IMMvp is overrated too. Thanks for clearing that up. Does anyone even remember MMA 2-0'd some protoss called TopClass last season's code A, and Kiwikaki at MLG for that matter? Before MLG Columbus, most people would have said Kiwi>>>Sheth so that Koreans>foreigners doesn't really cut it for me in this instance. Or did anyone see the sick factory wall off he used in game 1 tonight which allowed him to win a fight he shouldn't have (although he was still way behind afterward).
In short, MMA needs to play a little less risky still and he can dominate players like Puzzle. Coming behind 0-2 to MKP to win a bo5 is not a fluke, plus all of those other achievements. Now, I'm done defending MMA for a month, since I won't see him play for that long /cry.
No by that Logic Mvp is not overrated. He's two GSLs by defeating equal assortments of Terrans, Zergs, and Protosses. His TvP is his weakest yes.
Regarding MMA beating Kiwi and Topclass, so? And how is Sheth brought into all of this, I didn't say Sheth would be MMA. I actually think MMA would roll Sheth.
About the factory wall, he won that because of the EMP, not because of the wall. 0-2 back from MKP? Great, but not only is that TvT, not TvP, but he went on to get 4-0'd by Polt.
probably already said, but QXC did a fantastic job casting. A few little bumps that were expected with the new gig, but he had good chemistry and fantastic game knowledge. really impressed.
Sheth played well, but San did the same build three straight times for some reason.
It wasn't the same build each time, I don't understand why the commentators kept saying that... it was a similar composition each game with the stargate + gateway army but it wasn't the same build. It isn't like he went 4 gate every game.
On June 28 2011 16:25 WindCalibur wrote: MMA overrated. Can't believe he lost to dts twice. A turret isn't just for DTs you know. It can be used to deny the ob seeing your army size.
How is runner up in the ST, winner of MLG, and MVP of the past two GSTLs overrated...
Because, MLG is just a competition of which Korean wins now. He only beat Losira and July (only in the sense of only 2 players), two Zergs, yes his TvZ is quite awesome. In the Super Tournament he got to the finals on all TvT. Bullshit. MVP of the past two GSTLs great. That's Team Leagues. Not Individual Leagues. They do not correlate.
He's overrated because blind people expected him just roll over this Protoss. But non fan boys would have actually predicted this win, just like b_unnies did.
This argument is flawed. Just because you have one bad matchup and gets unlucky at times, it doesn't necessarily make you not a good player.
Do you not remember IMMvp? He was EXACTLY like MMA. Godly TvT and very good TvZ, but had terrible TvP. Even getting knocked down to Code A because of it. Did people start saying he was not a good player or overrated because of that? nope.
The fact that MMA beat July and Losira straight up, and beat every other terrans out there (aside from Polt) proves that he is just that good. And MVP of team leagues is an individual achievement. He literally carried his team to two victories. This isn't something to look over.
Yes, non-fanboys of MMA would be able to see that he definitely has a good chance of losing today. But non-fanboys of MMA wouldn't be calling him overrated either. You sound more like a anti-MMA fanboy to me
bad play in one matchup shouldn't mean you automatically hate a player. even if other people become fanboys so what im sure you are a fan of someone too?
the way the game works right now no one has mastered all 3 matchups, there are very few players who simply cannot be beaten, its just how the game works untill someone steps up and starts playing like a bonjwa, like some BW players do. if you don't know what i mean go watch any game with flash or Jeadong in it, they knows exactly what to do in almost every situation, it takes years to figure this out and make your play nearly flawless. we can't expect players to be that good right now, all we have to go on is a players potential, and there are heaps of players who have that potential, they just need to figure everything out.
On June 28 2011 16:25 WindCalibur wrote: MMA overrated. Can't believe he lost to dts twice. A turret isn't just for DTs you know. It can be used to deny the ob seeing your army size.
How is runner up in the ST, winner of MLG, and MVP of the past two GSTLs overrated...
Because, MLG is just a competition of which Korean wins now. He only beat Losira and July (only in the sense of only 2 players), two Zergs, yes his TvZ is quite awesome. In the Super Tournament he got to the finals on all TvT. Bullshit. MVP of the past two GSTLs great. That's Team Leagues. Not Individual Leagues. They do not correlate.
He's overrated because blind people expected him just roll over this Protoss. But non fan boys would have actually predicted this win, just like b_unnies did.
Please, enlighten me how MMA was not the favourite?
because his TvP is bad and he got knocked down to code A by huk (0-2) when being considered a big favourite in that Matchup aswell?
Come on, drop the fanboyism, both games were brilliantly played by puzzle, and both were fantastic games why do they have so many No votes ;>
IM should steal this guy, he's not zenex material.
I was just wondering why the games have so many yes votes. DT's killing scv's and securing a huge lead isn't very exciting. All of the hair raising stuff in game 1 was done by MMA. I voted no simply to offset all the MMA haters. What has the guy ever done to deserve hate? Get fans? Beat MKP? That's MKP's problem, just as not having turrets was MMA's problem.
Because fanboys hype MMA as a master of the universe after winning MLG and beating 5 terrans in ST. Yes I got a problem with that. TvT godlike not, 0-4 Polt, plz beat mvp and Bomber . TvZ awesome not, have fun beating LosirA. TvP bad, sure, but I'd say disastrous. What else does he got ? Sure I love his multitasking, multiprongs drop, clutch plays but that do not save the day. Some may say even DRG or StC arent in Code A, but once they are in code A, I can only see them go straight for the championship (see Bomber), not dropping out like this
To be fair, MMA's play is often very dominant to a point where you see him as a master of the universe. It's just that his early game is really bad, which made polt's win not be much of a surprise. But when he survives long enough to have medivacs going everywhere, and have multiple pronged attacks and really brutal emp's, he's really unbelievably good.
He's top 3 control *trollface* but really bad game sense and build refinement.
Come on, drop the fanboyism, both games were brilliantly played by puzzle, and both were fantastic games why do they have so many No votes ;>
IM should steal this guy, he's not zenex material.
I was just wondering why the games have so many yes votes. DT's killing scv's and securing a huge lead isn't very exciting. All of the hair raising stuff in game 1 was done by MMA. I voted no simply to offset all the MMA haters. What has the guy ever done to deserve hate? Get fans? Beat MKP? That's MKP's problem, just as not having turrets was MMA's problem.
Because fanboys hype MMA as a master of the universe after winning MLG and beating 5 terrans in ST. Yes I got a problem with that. TvT godlike not, 0-4 Polt, plz beat mvp and Bomber . TvZ awesome not, have fun beating LosirA. TvP bad, sure, but I'd say disastrous. What else does he got ? Sure I love his multitasking, multiprongs drop, clutch plays but that do not save the day. Some may say even DRG or StC arent in Code A, but once they are in code A, I can only see them go straight for the championship (see Bomber), not dropping out like this
On June 28 2011 16:25 WindCalibur wrote: MMA overrated. Can't believe he lost to dts twice. A turret isn't just for DTs you know. It can be used to deny the ob seeing your army size.
How is runner up in the ST, winner of MLG, and MVP of the past two GSTLs, where he beat the likes of MVP, MC, July, Squirtle, sC, and DRG, considered overrated...
Lets see.
Shall we start with MLG? First of all, if you watched his replays, you notice two important things. 1. He likes to do risky openings. 2. His mechanics are not so great.
He may not be aware of the first point, which is understandable since if you watched his old games before MLG, his openings are somewhat risky but his opponent never truly took advantage of that. I will emphasize on this point later.
His mechanics are weak. Don't believe me? Watch his games on MLG (use the replays) and just see how frequent he forgets supplies, sometimes forgetting to make scvs, and also mis-control his multi-prong attacks. I know it is hard to multitask that well and many people can't, but he supply blocks himself even when the opponents do not pressure him. If Bomber can not get supply blocked, then I expect MMA to not to especially after all the praise he gets.
So we have a player who does risky things where sometimes it pays off. Now lets get to the super tournament.
It is true that he got into the grand finals, but he was unbelievably shaky in the games he played. There are many games where if you watched the games, you would not think it is MMA playing (if you rate him that high). Also, the super tournament exposed his weaknesses. Polt analyzed and abused MMA's style and roflstomped him.
And now, lets go with drop play.
There are a lot of games where MMA's drops could be easily intercepted and killed. There are also many times where the drops do not do enough damage. Most of the time, it is not because of MMA that this is happening, but rather it depends on how his opponent respond. His drop style, though tasks the multitasking abilities of his opponent, rely on his opponent to make mistakes. Again, this goes back to his risky playstyle.
And now we see that his adaptability is horrible and he seems to have trouble playing outside his usual style. He lost to DTs twice. I know the second game was understandable because he thought it was a 6 gate but still, if he is good as everyone says he is, then dts should not kill him.
Get over it. MMA is overrated. It does not mean that he won't become powerful later on but it's sickening on how high people rate MMA.
And this is true. MMA opens risky. His dropships NEED to do damage. MMA throws away so many drops. MMA relies on oppenents to MAKE MISTAKES. MMA has horrible early game. He is overrated and I am done being a fan of his until he is better.
Its absurd arguing MMA is over-rated. Totally absurd.
He put Slayers on his back to win two GSTL titles, under tremendous pressure always being the last man Slayers put in. He won MLG convincingly. He came second place in the ST.
The only players in the world who have accomplished more than this are MC, MVP, Nestea, and maybe MKP. Thats it. Thats the list.
EPT
