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On June 26 2011 03:39 MonsieurGrimm wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 03:35 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On June 26 2011 03:32 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 26 2011 03:31 R3N wrote:On June 26 2011 03:30 hi_0 wrote:
IdrA needed hydras against all of those stalkers. Roaches just don't cut it. yep. also don't like the infestor in this situation. costs way too much. lol, whenever he goes hydras against blink stalkers people say he needs infestors. whenever he goes infestors, people say he needs hydras. it came down to the upgrades, the late roach speed, no burrow, shit like that. not just what units he did/didn't get Or for this specific time dropping a couple spine crawlers would have almost completely denied that push by HuK and giving him time to get his extra base up and infestors to RoflStomp through HuKs army. Sloppy decision making cost Idra that game had nothing to do with balance... eh, he was on even bases with protoss, dunno if spine crawlers would have been that good an idea. his roach speed finished at like 12:00 though, which is really damn late.. it's hard to keep up with protoss on upgrades because of chrono, but he could have done better there... huk had no obs, burrow means that toss has to invest in robo or else zerg can do his own micro. also, infestors were a bit late and creep spread could have been far better blink stalkers are really fucking strong though. completely aside from balance, more protoss need to use that shit it's so good.
Actually HuK did have an obvs so Burrow wouldn't have helped that much in this game. And the spine crawlers would have down wonders, place them down around the gas and just gather your army around them and block the ramp from a run by. The range+Dmg of spinecrawlers instantly deny HuK's harras IMO
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Huk's build is very common on the Korean server (5-7gate, blink, start third base). Its a new build that Idra definitely would not have that much experience against its not like there was nothing he could've done better a few adjustments and its easily holdable.
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On June 26 2011 03:39 Sawofhackness wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 03:33 Denzil wrote:On June 26 2011 03:31 navara wrote:On June 26 2011 03:30 hi_0 wrote:
IdrA needed hydras against all of those stalkers. Roaches just don't cut it. lol What the hell are you on about? You clearly haven't watched Idra v Protoss for the past 20 times. V MC Hydra Infestor doesn't work VMC Roach Ling doesn't work V Huk Roach Ling Infestor doesn't work. All I remember is Idra saying protoss are unbeatable v zerg, then Losira beating MC right after And now Stephano just beats White-RA and I'm a zerg player Sorry I never partake in these balance discussions, but whats to discuss really
It is more about specific builds/players. HuK is a very very abusive player. If protoss used Blink Stalker every game, they would win majority of them, but not every protoss goes Blink Stalker like HuK did. HuK isn't scared to 4 gate if he thinks it'll get him a win, White-Ra for example I don't see 4 gate very much period.
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On June 26 2011 03:32 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 03:31 Coulthard wrote:On June 26 2011 03:30 youngminii wrote:huk using chinese pvz blink stalkers  gg chinese? it's apparently the chinese pvz style mid game nonstop stalker aggression with 5~ sentries rushing +1/+2 attack with blink huk extended it to 3 base and +3 but still, the general concept is there oh yeah, even the more than normal number of zealots is part of it
gonna quote this one more time
the general consensus is that there is no real HARD counter, but just roach hydra with good upgrades will do well assuming good positioning/micro/balance of army and workers etc.
i don't believe in discussing balance, it's a great build that requires actual skill to use and similarly it requires skill to beat, if you've never seen it though you'll be in a tough spot
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On June 26 2011 03:32 imPERSONater wrote:
Anyone know how IdrA could have done better? Seemed like he was in a good position, but blink stalkers are just so cost effective.
I am not 100% sure and have huge issues myself against blink.
The solutions I have found though always involve a huge mass of lings (gogo macro hatches). Hydra or spines do well to keep them out of your base for a bit (just like spines vs a tank push, it won't do damage but slows the push down).
You usually want mutalisk (can catch stalkers, just make sure not to lose them if ling count gets low) or infestor support for those lings and absolutely need ling attack upgrades. The ling attack greatly increases their dps making it a low harder to blink micro effectively.
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On June 26 2011 03:40 landmarktiger wrote:
gotta love the 30 page nerd war in forums after every idra game btw idra haters and idra fanboys
This :D
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I think Nani was just waiting for chilkl to get out of the room.
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mc losing on purpose to kick out Idra? 8D
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Nightend is the one making the robotic(voice), not Naniva
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On June 26 2011 03:40 Piski wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 03:39 Legend` wrote:On June 26 2011 03:37 Rayansaki wrote:On June 26 2011 03:31 Exarl25 wrote:
If I massed Stalkers against Marauders and got destroyed then no one would cry imbalance.
But Stalkers versus Roaches and it's a completely different story. This is so true :[] Well its a well known fact that zerg players complain the most lol. For some reason they think amoving with roaches takes more skill than going blink stalkers and actually have to -gasp- MICRO Logic usually helps but I think most of them just watch idra everyday and believes everything he says. How zerg should be microing their roaches against blink stalkers? :o He had obs there so no burrow play and he were backing away quite well. I'm seriously curious. I dont think blink stalkers are imba or anything but I just want to know how to micro roaches against blink stalkers?
I'd love to burrow micro. But Burrow micro is shit. I burrow the unit still takes damage even through the animation. The blink is instant and negates damage that comes in.
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On June 26 2011 03:39 Sawofhackness wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 03:33 Denzil wrote:On June 26 2011 03:31 navara wrote:On June 26 2011 03:30 hi_0 wrote:
IdrA needed hydras against all of those stalkers. Roaches just don't cut it. lol What the hell are you on about? You clearly haven't watched Idra v Protoss for the past 20 times. V MC Hydra Infestor doesn't work VMC Roach Ling doesn't work V Huk Roach Ling Infestor doesn't work. All I remember is Idra saying protoss are unbeatable v zerg, then Losira beating MC right after And now Stephano just beats White-RA and I'm a zerg player Sorry I never partake in these balance discussions, but whats to discuss really
Agreed, Just because Idra can't beat protoss in a real game all the Idra fans have something to whine about.
+ Show Spoiler +Sorry, I dont mean all Idra fans are whiners. But whenever Idra looses to a race its imbalanced.
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Nightend should do some voice acting.
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It's getting preeeetty annoying that no matter what unit composition zerg uses, the people in this thread will pick the one unit they didn't use and claim that would've been the magic bullet... How about just be quiet when you have no idea what's going on, the game isn't all about fucking unit composition.
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On June 26 2011 03:39 Legend` wrote:
Well its a well known fact that zerg players complain the most lol. For some reason they think amoving with roaches takes more skill than going blink stalkers and actually have to -gasp- MICRO
Logic usually helps but I think most of them just watch idra everyday and believes everything he says.
On June 26 2011 03:40 mholden02 wrote:
Are u serious? Blink micro is the easiest micro in the game. Im terrible, but i can blink micro and rape zerg.
All righty then. :D
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Most of those complaints should be directed at the map. Free nat plus easy 3rd and hard 4th favors P while Z looks to secure a 4th before ramping up agression.
That said IdrA almost held without spines so it's not like a catastrophe. He lost to the Dreamhack winner and isn't out of the tournament, you're supposed to cheer him up.
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On June 26 2011 03:39 Sawofhackness wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 03:33 Denzil wrote:On June 26 2011 03:31 navara wrote:On June 26 2011 03:30 hi_0 wrote:
IdrA needed hydras against all of those stalkers. Roaches just don't cut it. lol What the hell are you on about? You clearly haven't watched Idra v Protoss for the past 20 times. V MC Hydra Infestor doesn't work VMC Roach Ling doesn't work V Huk Roach Ling Infestor doesn't work. All I remember is Idra saying protoss are unbeatable v zerg, then Losira beating MC right after And now Stephano just beats White-RA and I'm a zerg player Sorry I never partake in these balance discussions, but whats to discuss really
IdrA could have taken game 3, and it was close. The key was he needed a few sunkens to stall for infestors. he had to continually produce units which meant he couldn't produce enough tech (though he had pathogen glands), and he couldnt drone. With sunkens, he could have produced 3 infestors and kept his army alive better.
It was a nice play by Huk though surroundign his sentries with force fields when idrA flanked with lings.
IdrA had a few bits of sloppiness- misplaced rally points lost him ~6 roaches and he lost a few lings unecessarily. Huk was just meticilous with his early on blink- and protoss units scale well together.
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naNi not wearing noise canceling headphones
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Idra haters underrate idra. Idra fanboys overrate him. I think he is one of the best foreigners outside the korean system. There is no way he is THE best definitively.
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It's always the same people who cry in LR threads when Idra loses and I'm getting fucking tired of it.
Also, Nightend you are awesome.
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EPT
