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On June 26 2011 03:36 Vapaach wrote:
Ling + (hydra) + infestor > gateway units.
Idra just made roach ling, which is quite ineffective against well microed stalkers. No wonder he lost.
On another note, I think Naniwa will win 2-1. I just have this gut feeling.
You do have seen the game right? Infestors take quite some time to build and idra assumed Huk would attack him earlier so he HAD to make roaches. Once the blink stalker pressure begins the zerg has to constantly remake roach/ling or die. It's not his chois.. sigh
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No matter how awesome this tournament is I'm not watching PvPs...
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On June 26 2011 03:39 Legend` wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 03:37 Rayansaki wrote:On June 26 2011 03:31 Exarl25 wrote:
If I massed Stalkers against Marauders and got destroyed then no one would cry imbalance.
But Stalkers versus Roaches and it's a completely different story. This is so true :[] Well its a well known fact that zerg players complain the most lol. For some reason they think amoving with roaches takes more skill than going blink stalkers and actually have to -gasp- MICRO Logic usually helps but I think most of them just watch idra everyday and believes everything he says.
How zerg should be microing their roaches against blink stalkers? :o He had obs there so no burrow play and he were backing away quite well. I'm seriously curious. I dont think blink stalkers are imba or anything but I just want to know how to micro roaches against blink stalkers?
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On June 26 2011 03:37 Rayansaki wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 03:31 Exarl25 wrote:
If I massed Stalkers against Marauders and got destroyed then no one would cry imbalance.
But Stalkers versus Roaches and it's a completely different story. This is so true :[]
people are complaining about PvZ and P going mass blink stalkers while zerg can't seem to do anything about it.
I am glad that TvP is different.
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On June 26 2011 03:39 Slardar wrote:
Who's the guy on the left commentating? I see ToD + Take + ?
NightEnd!
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nani with the gameface on!
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On June 26 2011 03:35 RealQ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 03:32 imPERSONater wrote:
Anyone know how IdrA could have done better? Seemed like he was in a good position, but blink stalkers are just so cost effective. He overreacted to huk's 6gate which just put him behind and huk exploited it by expanding and going blinkstalkers
If he doesn't react he dies to the first timing, ffs these silver leaguers are giving me migraine.
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interesting that they both took the gases farther away from there minerals. Is that to stop a gas steal if needed?
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On June 26 2011 03:39 Slardar wrote:
Who's the guy on the left commentating? I see ToD + Take + ?
Best caster in next 10 years, Nightend.
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On June 26 2011 03:39 Legend` wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 03:37 Rayansaki wrote:On June 26 2011 03:31 Exarl25 wrote:
If I massed Stalkers against Marauders and got destroyed then no one would cry imbalance.
But Stalkers versus Roaches and it's a completely different story. This is so true :[] Well its a well known fact that zerg players complain the most lol. For some reason they think amoving with roaches takes more skill than going blink stalkers and actually have to -gasp- MICRO Logic usually helps but I think most of them just watch idra everyday and believes everything he says.
# of people complaining about balance whine > balance whine
also generalizations are cool
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Nightend is such a good caster. He's practiced with so many top players, so he knows them so well.
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Haha naniwa looks like an eagle
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blink stalkers are really hard to hold off especially when they can abuse terrain.
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Huk played those last 2 games so perfectly, the forcefields and blink micro were amazing
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Thorzain vs Tarson is curently playing?
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On June 26 2011 03:39 Sawofhackness wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 03:33 Denzil wrote:On June 26 2011 03:31 navara wrote:On June 26 2011 03:30 hi_0 wrote:
IdrA needed hydras against all of those stalkers. Roaches just don't cut it. lol What the hell are you on about? You clearly haven't watched Idra v Protoss for the past 20 times. V MC Hydra Infestor doesn't work VMC Roach Ling doesn't work V Huk Roach Ling Infestor doesn't work. All I remember is Idra saying protoss are unbeatable v zerg, then Losira beating MC right after And now Stephano just beats White-RA and I'm a zerg player Sorry I never partake in these balance discussions, but whats to discuss really
Stephano is really a baller vs. Protoss.
The way he destroyed HUK yesterday was more than just impressive.
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On June 26 2011 03:39 dmnum wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 03:38 dmnum wrote:On June 26 2011 03:33 Legend` wrote:
Not sure why people complain so much about blink stalkers. Try actually doing it and see how hard it is vs decent zergs to pull off. A lot harder than zergs just amoving with roach/lings lol... Cause there's so much we can do with roaches and lings besides attack. The thing about blink is what some people already said in this thread. There's a huge timing window where zerg is: -teching to infestors, in which case he dies for not having enough units -massing roaches, which is pretty bad against decent microed stalkers(and huk control was amazing that game) The problem is that people will just blame everything with no apparent counter to imbalace, instead of trying to find the weak points of the build and exploiting it. 
I agree with you. There is a good timing window where protoss can abuse zerg teching and absolutely ruthlessly punish them for it. However, past that point, it is essentially back to sq.1 for protoss where we have to run around in circles and try not to get overwhelmed by armies being thrown at us over and over again by zergs on 4-5+bases
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I really really hope MC loses this time. A dampener frome time to time would be good.
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On June 26 2011 03:30 zul wrote:zerg needs fungal to counter this style, but it takes soo long
This game is the icing on the cake to a myriad of games i've been experiencing in tournaments/ladder. I really have no idea how to approach this problem if anyone has any advice that would be swelll.
You can't get fungal while making enough units to stop the blink stalkers. Perhaps if Idra knew huk would push when he did he could have had time to reach fungal but as it was I just don't see what you do against that.
Huk goes nexus first into a probe cutting 6gate blink stalker allin. The nature of blink stalker allins is that you can't sustain a defence for it over a long period of time, the protoss wears you down regardless of an economical advantage (as you saw in that game). As such you have to crush the first attack all at once and therefore need to cut workers and begin unit production asap.
In this game Idra managed to sneak a scout in and saw the gateway timing and the twilight, so he knew that huk was cutting probes to allin. Due to the super fortunate timing of idra's ling scout he managed to be able to cut drones at essentially the same level that huk cut probes which is roughly ideal for blink stalker defense ZvP. As Huk knew his strat was given away, he threw down a nexus and resumed probe production while finishing off his tech, denying scouting and faking pressure with his first group of blink stalkers. After a short period of time Idra became aware of the third and redroned, making up the 3 base saturation before huk came back oncreep with his blink stalkers.
From here it's just a tale of super cost efficiency, Idra was ahead economically (up over 10 workers mining at essentially optimal saturation) was up a significant amount of supply (a given with a roach defense i guess) and his composition was the best considering the previous situation. he didn't have time to get a significant amount of infestors and Hydras are a non option after that earlygame. Huk's blink micro was very far from perfect but he stilll ran idra over with ease. This was not an engagement that was remotely close. If you gave idra 10 more roaches Huk would just wear him down longer.
TL: DR ; What DO YOU DO in Idra's situation?! I don't see how those blink stalkers are stoppable. Any kind of allin answer or completely commit and flank gets nullified by huk's sentry count and leaves you kind of helpless.
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EPT
