On June 22 2011 08:14 Kyamo wrote: I assumed the reason for the daytime weekday schedule was because the NASL casters and staff work daytime weekday hours. If that's true, its a decent reason even if it sucks for many players. You gotta do what you gotta do to get it organised.
If that isn't true, and you're going with this reason:
On June 22 2011 06:00 Xeris wrote: Also, you say that the times are "unreasonable," but I'd argue that it's the most reasonable for the most amount of people. Any time later would be unreasonable for Europeans and Koreans. This time is pretty decent for Europeans, not too early/late for USA, and still bad for Koreans.
In that case I completely disagree with you. Obviously there is no time that can work for everyone all over the world, so some groups have to be prioritised. I would argue that this is the NASL and you should be picking a time which works for the majority of NA people. IMO, 1pm is not such a time. Almost everyone who is not already supporting themselves off of SC2 is either working or in school. And most people who are working or in school are busy at 1 pm. Evenings or weekends is when most people can play.
If you guys are serious about wanting a serious league of really skilled players, you are going to need good quality players in your qualifying tournament, so you should make efforts to make sure that good quality players who want to play can play. Nobody wants to see someone qualify who doesn't have the skill to compete with the other NASL players. Watching matches where one player is way better than the other is boring and isn't going to attract viewers.
a) "Most people who are working or in school are busy at 1pm" -- most pro players don't work or go to school. Therefore, if your argument is that the best players should play, then the 1pm start time won't affect anything at all.
b) If we're serious about getting the best players, then we need a time that's good for Europeans and not too bad for Koreans. 1pm is a perfect slot for that.
Everything you said in your post contradicts itself.
Aren't open tourneys supposed to attract amateurs, not pros? -________________-
Your attitude here disturbs me, Xeris. The idea that you won't acknowledge criticism unless we also offer a solution is so weird. People criticize ----> NASL takes criticism and fixes problem. It's up to NASL to be a good tourney in people's eyes, and figure out how to do that. I'd argue if people are having problems with your tourney it's up to you to figure out how to make it better, not call troll or "fire-starter" everyone offers a critique of the scheduling (which I find very valid in this case).
I acknowledge all the criticism, but I won't really do anything about it unless I get constructive criticism, which very few people do.
On June 22 2011 08:14 Kyamo wrote: I assumed the reason for the daytime weekday schedule was because the NASL casters and staff work daytime weekday hours. If that's true, its a decent reason even if it sucks for many players. You gotta do what you gotta do to get it organised.
If that isn't true, and you're going with this reason:
On June 22 2011 06:00 Xeris wrote: Also, you say that the times are "unreasonable," but I'd argue that it's the most reasonable for the most amount of people. Any time later would be unreasonable for Europeans and Koreans. This time is pretty decent for Europeans, not too early/late for USA, and still bad for Koreans.
In that case I completely disagree with you. Obviously there is no time that can work for everyone all over the world, so some groups have to be prioritised. I would argue that this is the NASL and you should be picking a time which works for the majority of NA people. IMO, 1pm is not such a time. Almost everyone who is not already supporting themselves off of SC2 is either working or in school. And most people who are working or in school are busy at 1 pm. Evenings or weekends is when most people can play.
If you guys are serious about wanting a serious league of really skilled players, you are going to need good quality players in your qualifying tournament, so you should make efforts to make sure that good quality players who want to play can play. Nobody wants to see someone qualify who doesn't have the skill to compete with the other NASL players. Watching matches where one player is way better than the other is boring and isn't going to attract viewers.
a) "Most people who are working or in school are busy at 1pm" -- most pro players don't work or go to school. Therefore, if your argument is that the best players should play, then the 1pm start time won't affect anything at all.
b) If we're serious about getting the best players, then we need a time that's good for Europeans and not too bad for Koreans. 1pm is a perfect slot for that.
Everything you said in your post contradicts itself.
Aren't open tourneys supposed to attract amateurs, not pros? -________________-
Your attitude here disturbs me, Xeris. The idea that you won't acknowledge criticism unless we also offer a solution is so weird. People criticize ----> NASL takes criticism and fixes problem. It's up to NASL to be a good tourney in people's eyes, and figure out how to do that. I'd argue if people are having problems with your tourney it's up to you to figure out how to make it better, not call troll or "fire-starter" everyone offers a critique of the scheduling (which I find very valid in this case).
I acknowledge all the criticism, but I won't really do anything about it unless I get constructive criticism, which very few people do.
I see an Open tournament as giving a chance to anybody who has the time for participate, not necessarily cater to amateurs. This is a professional league and the chances of an amateur qualifying are like 0.000001% (random number). The Open tournament is for players to showcase their ability and demonstrate that they are capable of participating on what will be an even harder league in season 2.
On a side note, I feel that all this NASL criticism is due to people just following the crowd. Yes the NASL might have had some bumps along the way, but to me a lot of this "criticism" is just people hating on the league.
On June 22 2011 08:14 Kyamo wrote: I assumed the reason for the daytime weekday schedule was because the NASL casters and staff work daytime weekday hours. If that's true, its a decent reason even if it sucks for many players. You gotta do what you gotta do to get it organised.
If that isn't true, and you're going with this reason:
On June 22 2011 06:00 Xeris wrote: Also, you say that the times are "unreasonable," but I'd argue that it's the most reasonable for the most amount of people. Any time later would be unreasonable for Europeans and Koreans. This time is pretty decent for Europeans, not too early/late for USA, and still bad for Koreans.
In that case I completely disagree with you. Obviously there is no time that can work for everyone all over the world, so some groups have to be prioritised. I would argue that this is the NASL and you should be picking a time which works for the majority of NA people. IMO, 1pm is not such a time. Almost everyone who is not already supporting themselves off of SC2 is either working or in school. And most people who are working or in school are busy at 1 pm. Evenings or weekends is when most people can play.
If you guys are serious about wanting a serious league of really skilled players, you are going to need good quality players in your qualifying tournament, so you should make efforts to make sure that good quality players who want to play can play. Nobody wants to see someone qualify who doesn't have the skill to compete with the other NASL players. Watching matches where one player is way better than the other is boring and isn't going to attract viewers.
a) "Most people who are working or in school are busy at 1pm" -- most pro players don't work or go to school. Therefore, if your argument is that the best players should play, then the 1pm start time won't affect anything at all.
b) If we're serious about getting the best players, then we need a time that's good for Europeans and not too bad for Koreans. 1pm is a perfect slot for that.
Everything you said in your post contradicts itself.
Aren't open tourneys supposed to attract amateurs, not pros? -________________-
Your attitude here disturbs me, Xeris. The idea that you won't acknowledge criticism unless we also offer a solution is so weird. People criticize ----> NASL takes criticism and fixes problem. It's up to NASL to be a good tourney in people's eyes, and figure out how to do that. I'd argue if people are having problems with your tourney it's up to you to figure out how to make it better, not call troll or "fire-starter" everyone offers a critique of the scheduling (which I find very valid in this case).
I acknowledge all the criticism, but I won't really do anything about it unless I get constructive criticism, which very few people do.
I see an Open tournament as giving a chance to anybody who has the time for participate, not necessarily cater to amateurs. This is a professional league and the chances of an amateur qualifying are like 0.000001% (random number). The Open tournament is for players to showcase their ability and demonstrate that they are capable of participating on what will be an even harder league in season 2.
On a side note, I feel that all this NASL criticism is due to people just following the crowd. Yes the NASL might have had some bumps along the way, but to me a lot of this "criticism" is just people hating on the league.
I feel like a lot of people, for whatever reason, want NASL to fail. No clue why. Personally I've enjoyed watching the NASL regular season and am looking forward to the Grand Finals.
Regardless, Xeris needs to do a better job addressing criticism. Sure, a lot of it is unfounded. That doesn't mean you can brush it off and make the individual look like an idiot. If an individual asks why they're using the ladder version of Metalopolis, explain why it's the most used version. Don't provide a one-liner with an emoticon that is sure to turn off some people.
I think Xeris is doing a great job with the organizing and connecting with Korean teams and whatnot - he should probably stick to more of a background role in that sense and let someone else deal with a lot of the PR in regards to these forums and whatnot. As someone who has been watching from Day 1 I can't blame him for his frustrations, especially when people want to just complain. But to express it in such a manner... if I didn't know what NASL was and just heard about the league today (and read these posts), I would be a little peeved too.
On June 22 2011 08:14 Kyamo wrote: I assumed the reason for the daytime weekday schedule was because the NASL casters and staff work daytime weekday hours. If that's true, its a decent reason even if it sucks for many players. You gotta do what you gotta do to get it organised.
If that isn't true, and you're going with this reason:
On June 22 2011 06:00 Xeris wrote: Also, you say that the times are "unreasonable," but I'd argue that it's the most reasonable for the most amount of people. Any time later would be unreasonable for Europeans and Koreans. This time is pretty decent for Europeans, not too early/late for USA, and still bad for Koreans.
In that case I completely disagree with you. Obviously there is no time that can work for everyone all over the world, so some groups have to be prioritised. I would argue that this is the NASL and you should be picking a time which works for the majority of NA people. IMO, 1pm is not such a time. Almost everyone who is not already supporting themselves off of SC2 is either working or in school. And most people who are working or in school are busy at 1 pm. Evenings or weekends is when most people can play.
If you guys are serious about wanting a serious league of really skilled players, you are going to need good quality players in your qualifying tournament, so you should make efforts to make sure that good quality players who want to play can play. Nobody wants to see someone qualify who doesn't have the skill to compete with the other NASL players. Watching matches where one player is way better than the other is boring and isn't going to attract viewers.
a) "Most people who are working or in school are busy at 1pm" -- most pro players don't work or go to school. Therefore, if your argument is that the best players should play, then the 1pm start time won't affect anything at all.
b) If we're serious about getting the best players, then we need a time that's good for Europeans and not too bad for Koreans. 1pm is a perfect slot for that.
Everything you said in your post contradicts itself.
Aren't open tourneys supposed to attract amateurs, not pros? -________________-
Your attitude here disturbs me, Xeris. The idea that you won't acknowledge criticism unless we also offer a solution is so weird. People criticize ----> NASL takes criticism and fixes problem. It's up to NASL to be a good tourney in people's eyes, and figure out how to do that. I'd argue if people are having problems with your tourney it's up to you to figure out how to make it better, not call troll or "fire-starter" everyone offers a critique of the scheduling (which I find very valid in this case).
I acknowledge all the criticism, but I won't really do anything about it unless I get constructive criticism, which very few people do.
I see an Open tournament as giving a chance to anybody who has the time for participate, not necessarily cater to amateurs. This is a professional league and the chances of an amateur qualifying are like 0.000001% (random number). The Open tournament is for players to showcase their ability and demonstrate that they are capable of participating on what will be an even harder league in season 2.
On a side note, I feel that all this NASL criticism is due to people just following the crowd. Yes the NASL might have had some bumps along the way, but to me a lot of this "criticism" is just people hating on the league.
I feel like a lot of people, for whatever reason, want NASL to fail. No clue why. Personally I've enjoyed watching the NASL regular season and am looking forward to the Grand Finals.
Regardless, Xeris needs to do a better job addressing criticism. Sure, a lot of it is unfounded. That doesn't mean you can brush it off and make the individual look like an idiot. If an individual asks why they're using the ladder version of Metalopolis, explain why it's the most used version. Don't provide a one-liner with an emoticon that is sure to turn off some people.
I think Xeris is doing a great job with the organizing and connecting with Korean teams and whatnot - he should probably stick to more of a background role in that sense and let someone else deal with a lot of the PR in regards to these forums and whatnot. As someone who has been watching from Day 1 I can't blame him for his frustrations, especially when people want to just complain. But to express it in such a manner... if I didn't know what NASL was and just heard about the league today (and read these posts), I would be a little peeved too.
I will try to do a better job of responding to critics!
Wow BBoongBBoongPrime, MarineKingPrime, PoltPrime, oGsCezanne, oGsEnsanre, oGsHero, oGsInCa, oGsjookTo, oGsluvsic, oGsSuperNova, oGsTheStC, oGsTOP, oGsVINES, and oGsZenio apparently have all signed up now too.
You want amateurs to be able to participate? Imagine 512 amateurs (i. e. one half of the bracket) signed up, then you'd complain that there's a noob in the top 16.
Otherwise, amateurs won't make it into the league anyways, so don't cry about Xeris not taking your flawed perception of what an open tournament should look like as law.
You get free content, stop scrutinizing any little decision you don't agree with.
On June 22 2011 08:14 Kyamo wrote: I assumed the reason for the daytime weekday schedule was because the NASL casters and staff work daytime weekday hours. If that's true, its a decent reason even if it sucks for many players. You gotta do what you gotta do to get it organised.
If that isn't true, and you're going with this reason:
On June 22 2011 06:00 Xeris wrote: Also, you say that the times are "unreasonable," but I'd argue that it's the most reasonable for the most amount of people. Any time later would be unreasonable for Europeans and Koreans. This time is pretty decent for Europeans, not too early/late for USA, and still bad for Koreans.
In that case I completely disagree with you. Obviously there is no time that can work for everyone all over the world, so some groups have to be prioritised. I would argue that this is the NASL and you should be picking a time which works for the majority of NA people. IMO, 1pm is not such a time. Almost everyone who is not already supporting themselves off of SC2 is either working or in school. And most people who are working or in school are busy at 1 pm. Evenings or weekends is when most people can play.
If you guys are serious about wanting a serious league of really skilled players, you are going to need good quality players in your qualifying tournament, so you should make efforts to make sure that good quality players who want to play can play. Nobody wants to see someone qualify who doesn't have the skill to compete with the other NASL players. Watching matches where one player is way better than the other is boring and isn't going to attract viewers.
a) "Most people who are working or in school are busy at 1pm" -- most pro players don't work or go to school. Therefore, if your argument is that the best players should play, then the 1pm start time won't affect anything at all.
b) If we're serious about getting the best players, then we need a time that's good for Europeans and not too bad for Koreans. 1pm is a perfect slot for that.
Everything you said in your post contradicts itself.
Aren't open tourneys supposed to attract amateurs, not pros? -________________-
No. Why would a business want to be showcasing a bunch of amateurs? It doesn't attract viewers nearly as well as the "top tier" tournaments. Just look at the numbers. Sure, amateurs may want to have a bit of glory, but it doesn't matter. Just look at the IPL. They have top tier production, advertising, financial backing, and even have a lot of good players, but not in nearly the density as GSL/NASL/TSL. They get soooo many less viewers. I know that personally, its just not that interesting watching sloppy play. If the NASL has 2 Koreans playing, then IPL has 2 bottom of GM or high master NA players playing, there's no way I am going to watch IPL.
There are plenty of amateur tournaments/leagues. They have terrible prize pools, but that's because so few people care enough to tune in. If it wasn't so, you'd see way a way higher average viewer count in IPL.
Why did Zenio sign up? He's going to the LAN finals as well as already being qualified for season 2. Other than that, the list of players applying looks incredibly strong. I have no problem with having a lot of Koreans in the tournament as long as there are entertaining games (which should be the case with a stronger lineup.) The Koreans are already at a huge disadvantage, if they're willing to play at unconventional hours than more power to them. This is good for the NASL, since I believe season two will be really close and we wont see as many games thrown near the end of the season. With a few more GSL stars (Polt, MKP, Alicia) it will be great seeing them more often.
Wonder if anyone is going to let the ogs players know they all signed up wrong by not putting their bnet name and character ID. They will all get DQ like st virus did for improper signup.
It seems like people who are already in Season Two are going to be allowed to compete. This is weird, and while I have no experience organizing events like this, I have a sense that it shouldn't be allowed. What happens if one of them takes one of the top 8 spots in the Open Qualifier? How are you going to fill out the remainder of the 50 places in Season Two? E.g., say Zenio finishes in the top 8 of the Open Qualifier; you're then only getting 7 new players from the Open Qualifier, and you're left with 49 players in Season Two. From where are you going to draw replacements? If you're going to draw them from the players participating in the Open Qualifier or Open Tournaments, how do you plan to "rank" the players who finished 9-16 in one or more single-elimination brackets?
(What's more, how are you going to fill in the spots from players who were in guaranteed Season Two slots going into the playoffs but who have now decided not to play in Season Two? E.g., Naniwa? If you're only drawing 16 new players from the Open Tournament and Open Qualifier, where will Naniwa's replacement come from?)
To be honest, you don't have to answer these questions now; I certainly don't have suggestions on how to solve these problems if they arise. And you might have considered them already and have solutions on hand. I just wanted to throw some things out there that you might have to address in the future.
On June 26 2011 13:34 JimLloyd wrote: NASL People:
It seems like people who are already in Season Two are going to be allowed to compete.
They aren't. They'll get big "BANNED" in the list like Ace got here: http://binarybeast.com/xSC21105303/participants in the open tourney, and they won't be included in the bracket. At least that's what I'm assuming based off the open tournament.
EPT
