EPT[NASL] Season 2 Qualifier - Page 3
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StyLeD
United States2965 Posts
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MechKing
United States3004 Posts
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dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
What's the prize pool for Season 2? If I had to pay an entry fee (yeah $5 is nothing but still), I would like to know how much I can win. | ||
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CeriseCherries
6170 Posts
On June 22 2011 04:51 dani` wrote: Excellent, many SlayerS players have signed up:
What's the prize pool for Season 2? If I had to pay an entry fee (yeah $5 is nothing but still), I would like to know how much I can win. Yea! Go CELLA! and the rest of Slayers too -.- But this is great- I have no problem with Koreans as long as the league becomes more competitive- and just adding on of Alicia/MMA/Ryung would increase the stature of NASl | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
It might just be the opportunity for some yet unknown player to shine. :o | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
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Talkerst
124 Posts
Thinking a lot of people who signed up for the Open may be waiting to see where they place before registering for the Qualifier thus giving us the small number that are there now. | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On June 22 2011 03:57 Xeris wrote: A) I've already commented on scheduling flexibility. If your opponent agrees to a reschedule (NOTE: this means, playing later in the day, not moving it to a different day) that's fine with me. However, you must note that there are two days where multiple rounds are being played. So obviously you can't postpone your Ro256 game by several hours because that will delay the Ro128 game. Makes sense? B) I'm kinda confused as to what you mean "update the site with rules/dates/times"? The Open is listed on the front page, starting Wednesday at 1pm EDT.... which is when the tournament starts. The (Open) tournament on BinaryBeast shows as starting Wednesday June 22nd, the rules say that the Ro256 (of the Open Tournament) is played Wednesday June 22nd @ 1pm EDT. Can you elaborate on where the dates are wrong? C) Top players won't play each other in the beginning rounds of the tournament. I'll probably use TLPD ELO, but it's not 100%. I'm not really sure how this concerns you or anyone else. The important concern is: top players knocking each other out in Round 1-2... I've stated that this won't happen. Explaining how exactly the players are seeded doesn't really seem to be relevant. But, when possible, I'll use TLPD ELO to help. Overall, I'm not entirely sure what your criticisms are... because I feel like everything has been answered before. But of course, if you have any questions you can always email me at xeris@nasl.tv . I answer questions practically 24/7 on my email. A) I don't want to have to hunt through every one of your posts to find an answer to an important question. Can you put important tournament rules on your site, or at least update the OP as you answer them? B) I see that you've finally updated the NASL site to reflect accurate dates and times. Thanks for updating it before the tournament actually began this time. There's still a typo on the site though. C) The concern is, who is considered a "top player?" I can't believe you're trying to argue that the method of seeding is irrelevant. The seeding of this tournament will have a huge impact on who qualifies. Essentially this tournament is 8 separate single elimination tournaments where the top player in each bracket qualifies. And seeding decides who ends up in each of those separate brackets. If you seed by TLPD ELO, that's fine. If you seed by ladder rank, that's fine too. If you seed by results in major tournaments, ok whatever. Anything concrete is fine. But what you're saying makes it seem like you're going to personally assign seeds to people who you think are good, which is completely unfair to lesser known players. Overall, I have 3 main criticisms: 1. Unreasonable tournament schedule dates and times. You are not allowing many North American players a chance to play in this tournament. Why is this thing lasting for an entire week? Why can't it just be a 1 weekend tournament? 2. Unclear rules and tournament structure. You mention that players can try to reschedule with their opponents, but this is not in the rules anywhere and is just hidden in some post that you made somewhere. And seeding? 3. Hard to find accurate information in 1 place. There were disparities in tournament details between TL, the NASL site, etc. And when information changes, you need to update those places with the new information. Not just comment on it somewhere. The reason why I'm posting here instead of emailing you is because I'm sure other people will find some of this information useful. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
On June 22 2011 05:45 Anihc wrote: + Show Spoiler + A) I don't want to have to hunt through every one of your posts to find an answer to an important question. Can you put important tournament rules on your site, or at least update the OP as you answer them? B) I see that you've finally updated the NASL site to reflect accurate dates and times. Thanks for updating it before the tournament actually began this time. There's still a typo on the site though. C) The concern is, who is considered a "top player?" I can't believe you're trying to argue that the method of seeding is irrelevant. The seeding of this tournament will have a huge impact on who qualifies. Essentially this tournament is 8 separate single elimination tournaments where the top player in each bracket qualifies. And seeding decides who ends up in each of those separate brackets. If you seed by TLPD ELO, that's fine. If you seed by ladder rank, that's fine too. If you seed by results in major tournaments, ok whatever. Anything concrete is fine. But what you're saying makes it seem like you're going to personally assign seeds to people who you think are good, which is completely unfair to lesser known players. Overall, I have 3 main criticisms: 1. Unreasonable tournament schedule dates and times. You are not allowing many North American players a chance to play in this tournament. Why is this thing lasting for an entire week? Why can't it just be a 1 weekend tournament? 2. Unclear rules and tournament structure. You mention that players can try to reschedule with their opponents, but this is not in the rules anywhere and is just hidden in some post that you made somewhere. And seeding? 3. Hard to find accurate information in 1 place. There were disparities in tournament details between TL, the NASL site, etc. And when information changes, you need to update those places with the new information. Not just comment on it somewhere. The reason why I'm posting here instead of emailing you is because I'm sure other people will find some of this information useful. - You're just trying to be a fire-starter. You criticize and offer no solutions. You say "there's still a typo" but don't say what. You say "there were disparities" but don't say what they were. - What about the rules and tournament structure are unclear? Seeding? There's no clear way to seed the tournament. There's no definite answer of who "top players" are. I'm really confused as to what you want. And if you can't actually explain what you want, then how do you expect me to help you? When you talk about seeding. You say that a slightly arbitrary seeding of players based on my conception of who top players are is unfair to lesser known players: despite the fact that I've stated (the first time seeding was asked about) that I'd use TLPD to seed known players. I've added that to the rules and said it many times in thread. Lesser known players are very unlikely to have TLPD entries anyways, so they will be randomly seeded most likely. Again, I'm really not sure what you're criticizing. Again... if you can't actually clearly explain what you want, and all you do is say "here's what sucks about your tournament," then I can't help you. If you dislike my tournament so much, then you don't have to play in it. There are many people who want to play, and are excited for the tournament to start. The tournament is a week-long event because running those large scale tournaments in 1-2 days is more annoying. Also, you say that the times are "unreasonable," but I'd argue that it's the most reasonable for the most amount of people. Any time later would be unreasonable for Europeans and Koreans. This time is pretty decent for Europeans, not too early/late for USA, and still bad for Koreans. Koreans are very excited to participate despite the tournament being at 2am for them every day. | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
But seriously people need to quit nit-picking NASL. | ||
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Samhax
1054 Posts
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Jyten
United States2 Posts
Also, random note but I can't use my HD season pass. I'm praying that someone fixes it, responds to my emails or fixes it for next season...NASL is really the only tournament I watch. But between losing my account and not responding to emails. This makes NASL look pretty bad. Sorry didn't mean to add that...but it's really starting to annoy me. It's been two weeks now and no responses.... | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On June 22 2011 06:00 Xeris wrote: - You're just trying to be a fire-starter. You criticize and offer no solutions. You say "there's still a typo" but don't say what. You say "there were disparities" but don't say what they were. - What about the rules and tournament structure are unclear? Seeding? There's no clear way to seed the tournament. There's no definite answer of who "top players" are. I'm really confused as to what you want. And if you can't actually explain what you want, then how do you expect me to help you? When you talk about seeding. You say that a slightly arbitrary seeding of players based on my conception of who top players are is unfair to lesser known players: despite the fact that I've stated (the first time seeding was asked about) that I'd use TLPD to seed known players. I've added that to the rules and said it many times in thread. Lesser known players are very unlikely to have TLPD entries anyways, so they will be randomly seeded most likely. Again, I'm really not sure what you're criticizing. Again... if you can't actually clearly explain what you want, and all you do is say "here's what sucks about your tournament," then I can't help you. If you dislike my tournament so much, then you don't have to play in it. There are many people who want to play, and are excited for the tournament to start. The tournament is a week-long event because running those large scale tournaments in 1-2 days is more annoying. Also, you say that the times are "unreasonable," but I'd argue that it's the most reasonable for the most amount of people. Any time later would be unreasonable for Europeans and Koreans. This time is pretty decent for Europeans, not too early/late for USA, and still bad for Koreans. Koreans are very excited to participate despite the tournament being at 2am for them every day. Let me be perfectly honest here. I know I'm coming off as very rude, and I apologize. I'm upset because I really want a chance to participate in this tournament, but I cannot due to the current tournament times and schedule. I know I'm not the only one either. To make it worse, you have to admit that the organization of the NASL has not been the best. And I have given concrete suggestions among my criticisms on how to improve, such as keeping your site updated, keeping the OP in this thread updated, answering questions on the OP, etc. Sorry for being a bitch about the typo, that is my fault. The typo isn't a big deal, but it's here if you want to correct it: Ro64 + Ro32 : Friday : Thursday June 30th But as for the disparities, I had pointed out specific ones earlier (dates/times wrong for the open tournament, no mention of dates for the open tournament). You have since then updated the site and corrected these. There's no perfect way to seed, but I think it would be nice if you could just figure out one way to seed and then do it. Don't be wishywashy. Even in your 2nd to last post, you said "I'll probably use TLPD ELO, but it's not 100%" My problem with this is that it's less than a day away from the tournament start, and you still don't know for sure how aspects of the tournament will be run. Just say that you will seed by TLPD ELO (which I see is now reflected on the NASL site), and then stick with it. This is another concrete criticism with a suggestion. If indeed that is your plan, then I am perfectly happy with seeding. But don't act like it had been like this all along, this is a new development as of like an hour ago. Running those large-scale tournaments in 1-2 days is more annoying? What is that suppose to mean? Can you give specifics? 154 players is not a large scale tournament. People have run much larger tournaments in 1 day, extremely smoothly and successfully. Any weekly cups can do this. The TL Open does this. IPL ran awesome qualifiers for their season 2 which lasted 2 days. You can argue that there are tournaments that run much longer than a week - for example, the Tt eSports challenge and the upcoming GeForce Pro/Am tournaments. Well those are certainly much, MUCH larger than your tournament (players numbering in thousands, not 100 something). While those schedules also have 1 or 2 matches a day, their system works better because like in the case of Tt eSports, they have a good system in place for communicating with your opponent, setting up a new match time, and checking-in on the site with the new match times. Then like the case of the GeForce, their matches are twice a week, not every single day of a week. So here's another concrete criticism and suggestion: make this a 2 day tournament. As for the actual 1 PM NA/EU/KR time, trust me I would be very excited to play if it was at 2 AM. Most likely any NA players who can play at 1 PM can also play at 2 AM. The reverse is not true due to jobs/school. If I was in Europe the time would be perfect. If I was in Korea NASL would easily already have another $15 of my money. But because I live in NA and have job/school, I can't. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
I don't think I've ever claimed that the NASL's organization has been the best. Despite the fact that I've been running tournaments for 6 years, I've obviously never run a $100,000 one before  I know that there are a lot of things the NASL needs to improve on, and everyone here works very hard every day to do that. We're always taking feedback and looking to make the league better. I made the format based on 1,024 players. Since I didn't get that, then yes, a 256 man bracket is very do-able in a 1 day format. However, I'm not going to change the format that drastically this time around, especially because its very likely the players who have signed up already freed their schedules and made arrangements for the dates/times listed. It would be unfair to people already registered to change it last minute. It is something I might take into consideration next season, however. I do appreciate your criticisms, and anyone's -- as long as it is presented in a way that promotes dialogue and discussion. I want to see the NASL be as good as it can be, and I'm working at it all the time =D | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On June 22 2011 06:40 Xeris wrote: If you read the Open Tournament thread, in the first few pages I said that it would be seeded by TLPD ELO. It was my fault not updating the rules immediately to reflect that. This is an example of what I mean by disparities between what you say and the different websites. I don't know when you updated the NASL site to say that it will be seeded by ELO, but it was definitely a recent update, and even as of an hour or 2 ago your comment to me in this thread said that you'd "probably" seed by TLPD ELO but it "wasn't 100%" On June 22 2011 06:40 Xeris wrote: Running these in 1-2 more days is more annoying. I've hosted 1,000 man, 500 man, 256 player, 128 player tournaments by myself for 6 years now. Duran, I've known you for more than 6 years (not really personally, but aware of what you've been doing around here). You're a great guy and I know you've done a lot for the community. But you're still not explaining why exactly running these in 1-2 days is "more annoying." Why can other organizations and people do it? Why can't NASL do it? Doesn't NASL want to do it's best in every way possible, even if it means a little more work? On June 22 2011 06:40 Xeris wrote: I made the format based on 1,024 players. Since I didn't get that, then yes, a 256 man bracket is very do-able in a 1 day format. However, I'm not going to change the format that drastically this time around, especially because its very likely the players who have signed up already freed their schedules and made arrangements for the dates/times listed. It would be unfair to people already registered to change it last minute. You changed the dates/format of the open tournament at a very short notice due to Dreamhack. Making the tournament take a shorter amount of time is not a huge inconvenience to most people. If you can't shorten it to 2 days, even shortening it by 1 day, or doing something like moving it from Fri-Tues instead of the current Wed-Sun would be great (then the majority of rounds are played from Fri-Sun instead of Wed-Fri). | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
Having every round be BO3 will make the tournament last even longer if it's a 1-2 day affair. This way, splitting it up over the week allows players to not have to spend an entire day sitting around, but they can play 1 bo3 series, then go about their day. At this point it becomes a matter of preference whether you prefer: playing 1 bo3 per day for 5-6 days, or playing 5-6 bo3's in one day... I chose to do the former. I hope this is a satisfactory explanation of why the format is the way it is. Next, I didn't change the format to accommodate Dreamhack players. The dates/formats didn't change at all. The Ro256 was always to be Wednesday. Since there is no Ro1,024 and no Ro512 (because fewer players signed up), it doesn't necessarily follow that the subsequent rounds are moved up to Day 1. Obviously my fault was only updating that in a few places and not on the tournament page itself, but that's been discussed for. Therefore, you can see that I actually didn't change the format at all. If we had 1,024 players for example... the tournament would have started on Monday, and players at Dreamhack probably wouldn't have been able to play I guess. It ended up working out that the tournament does not conflict with Dreamhack, but that's because of a lack of signups. | ||
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Sumwar
Canada199 Posts
Either way I look forward to seeing the second season of nasl. | ||
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Kyamo
Canada129 Posts
If that isn't true, and you're going with this reason: On June 22 2011 06:00 Xeris wrote: Also, you say that the times are "unreasonable," but I'd argue that it's the most reasonable for the most amount of people. Any time later would be unreasonable for Europeans and Koreans. This time is pretty decent for Europeans, not too early/late for USA, and still bad for Koreans. In that case I completely disagree with you. Obviously there is no time that can work for everyone all over the world, so some groups have to be prioritised. I would argue that this is the NASL and you should be picking a time which works for the majority of NA people. IMO, 1pm is not such a time. Almost everyone who is not already supporting themselves off of SC2 is either working or in school. And most people who are working or in school are busy at 1 pm. Evenings or weekends is when most people can play. If you guys are serious about wanting a serious league of really skilled players, you are going to need good quality players in your qualifying tournament, so you should make efforts to make sure that good quality players who want to play can play. Nobody wants to see someone qualify who doesn't have the skill to compete with the other NASL players. Watching matches where one player is way better than the other is boring and isn't going to attract viewers. | ||
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Ansalem
564 Posts
On June 22 2011 08:14 Kyamo wrote: I assumed the reason for the daytime weekday schedule was because the NASL casters and staff work daytime weekday hours. If that's true, its a decent reason even if it sucks for many players. You gotta do what you gotta do to get it organised. If that isn't true, and you're going with this reason: In that case I completely disagree with you. Obviously there is no time that can work for everyone all over the world, so some groups have to be prioritised. I would argue that this is the NASL and you should be picking a time which works for the majority of NA people. IMO, 1pm is not such a time. Almost everyone who is not already supporting themselves off of SC2 is either working or in school. And most people who are working or in school are busy at 1 pm. Evenings or weekends is when most people can play. If you guys are serious about wanting a serious league of really skilled players, you are going to need good quality players in your qualifying tournament, so you should make efforts to make sure that good quality players who want to play can play. Nobody wants to see someone qualify who doesn't have the skill to compete with the other NASL players. Watching matches where one player is way better than the other is boring and isn't going to attract viewers. Do you seriously think that there will be issues with who qualifies because it's during the afternoon on weekdays? For the open tournament (where there are 8 slots for next season) there are 40ish big name players and there are 7-8 big names already for the second qualifier (8 slots). There's another week for sign ups and I imagine a lot of the people from the first qualifier are waiting for the results of the first one before paying to sign up for a second. From the player pool, the quality of players definitely looks like it will be higher than the first season invites. | ||
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