So we really have no idea who won or what happened in Haypro vs Strelock Its really crazy but they just ended the show without showing this match
mod edit --
On May 28 2011 13:10 Xeris wrote: Hey guys -- the match vs Haypro was not aired because he was bedridden with a fever. It will be broadcast along with next week's match for Division 3.
I apologize for us not making an announcement of it in today's show, it won't happen again. Thanks all for your patience and understanding, hope you enjoyed the games today!
A bit late I know, I'll try to LR if nobody else does it.
NaDa 2 rax bunker rushing but it gets held off easily with little damage by SLush. NaDa expanding behind it.
10:00
Slush making a lot of units, grabbing a third. Spire and Centrifugal Hooks just finished.
NaDa is making a CC as well.
12:00
Failed drop by NaDa in the main, meanwhile pushing out and walking over burrowed banelings that do... nothing. Slush tries to break the push but NaDa saves a lot of his marines.
16:00
Slush cleans up the tanks of the push with mutas but loses all his banelings, zerglings and his third hatch.
NaDa retreats his marines over burrowed banelings and 2 unburrow for TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE DAMAGE.
20:00
Slush invests a lot of gas into mutas, snipes a lot of siege tanks but the marine counter snipes Slush his 4th. Slush slightly behind on workers as well as supply, but more importantly 3 bases against 4.
Slush sacs a lot of banelings to get the 4th PF.
22:00
Mutas harass the 5th of NaDa, NaDa counters and runs into Slush his 3rd and destroys it, as well as all of Slush' banelings which fail to do enough damage. Slush GGs.
Both of the Naniwa vs Axslav games where quick and dirty with blink stalkers in the first game and a 4 gate in the second don't worry you didn't miss much
On May 28 2011 09:55 Ocedic wrote: Can someone post the results thus far?
games starting in 4 or 5 minnutes, if you mean of all games this season, go to nasl.tv and look at standings, or you can go to players for individual results
On May 28 2011 09:50 XiaoJoyce- wrote: I saw marauder taking Building easy, Marauder deal 20 dmg to building or 10?
8-10 stimmed marauder 2-2 upgrade, what do u expect ?
Meaning marines actually better at sniping building? Because medivac drop can carry total 8 marines, compare to 4 marauder.
8x 2/2 marines fighting buildings with 1armor will do 7dmg/shot = 56dmg/round of attack 4x 2/2 marauders fighting buildings with 1armor will do 23dmg/shot = 92dmg/round of attack
Marines do actually fire faster - but it doesn't really cover the difference.
So in short. Yeah, marauders slaughter buildings... big surprise, huh?
On May 28 2011 09:50 XiaoJoyce- wrote: I saw marauder taking Building easy, Marauder deal 20 dmg to building or 10?
8-10 stimmed marauder 2-2 upgrade, what do u expect ?
Meaning marines actually better at sniping building? Because medivac drop can carry total 8 marines, compare to 4 marauder.
8x 2/2 marines fighting buildings with 1armor will do 7dmg/shot = 56dmg/round of attack 4x 2/2 marauders fighting buildings with 1armor will do 23dmg/shot = 92dmg/round of attack
Marines do actually fire faster - but it doesn't really cover the difference.
So in short. Yeah, marauders slaughter buildings... big surprise, huh?
marines of CD of .86 and marauder of 1.5, so its actually really close.
wait just checker your math, marauders do 19.1 per hit, which is 76.4.
then DPS added in, marines do 48/second
Maruader do50.9333333
With stim:
marauders do 76.4/second (CD of 1 with stim)
Marines do 96/second with stim, so Marines do more dmg to buildings than marauders
On May 28 2011 09:50 XiaoJoyce- wrote: I saw marauder taking Building easy, Marauder deal 20 dmg to building or 10?
8-10 stimmed marauder 2-2 upgrade, what do u expect ?
Meaning marines actually better at sniping building? Because medivac drop can carry total 8 marines, compare to 4 marauder.
8x 2/2 marines fighting buildings with 1armor will do 7dmg/shot = 56dmg/round of attack 4x 2/2 marauders fighting buildings with 1armor will do 23dmg/shot = 92dmg/round of attack
Marines do actually fire faster - but it doesn't really cover the difference.
So in short. Yeah, marauders slaughter buildings... big surprise, huh?
marines of CD of .86 and marauder of 1.5, so its actually really close.
wait just checker your math, marauders do 19.1 per hit, which is 76.4.
then DPS added in, marines do 48/second
Maruader do50.9333333
With stim:
marauders do 76.4/second (CD of 1 with stim)
Marines do 96/second with stim, so Marines do more dmg to buildings than marauders
you forgot about bonus to armored for marauders? ~~
On May 28 2011 09:50 XiaoJoyce- wrote: I saw marauder taking Building easy, Marauder deal 20 dmg to building or 10?
8-10 stimmed marauder 2-2 upgrade, what do u expect ?
Meaning marines actually better at sniping building? Because medivac drop can carry total 8 marines, compare to 4 marauder.
8x 2/2 marines fighting buildings with 1armor will do 7dmg/shot = 56dmg/round of attack 4x 2/2 marauders fighting buildings with 1armor will do 23dmg/shot = 92dmg/round of attack
Marines do actually fire faster - but it doesn't really cover the difference.
So in short. Yeah, marauders slaughter buildings... big surprise, huh?
marines of CD of .86 and marauder of 1.5, so its actually really close.
wait just checker your math, marauders do 19.1 per hit, which is 76.4.
then DPS added in, marines do 48/second
Maruader do50.9333333
With stim:
marauders do 76.4/second (CD of 1 with stim)
Marines do 96/second with stim, so Marines do more dmg to buildings than marauders
you forgot about bonus to armored for marauders? ~~
no, just cant do math.
okay well it is 23dmg with marauder.
but even so, 2 attack upgrades while stimming vs a building with 1 armour, 4 marauders do 92 dps, and 8 marines do 96dps
On May 28 2011 09:55 Ocedic wrote: Can someone post the results thus far?
games have not started yet.
Ah, my mistake. For some reason when I tuned in, I thought some games already passed. Maybe it was pre-game commentary that I mistook as post-game commentary, or the production was messed up.
A bit late I know, I'll try to LR if nobody else does it.
NaDa 2 rax bunker rushing but it gets held off easily with little damage by SLush. NaDa expanding behind it.
10:00
Slush making a lot of units, grabbing a third. Spire and Centrifugal Hooks just finished.
NaDa is making a CC as well.
12:00
Failed drop by NaDa in the main, meanwhile pushing out and walking over burrowed banelings that do... nothing. Slush tries to break the push but NaDa saves a lot of his marines.
On May 28 2011 09:50 XiaoJoyce- wrote: I saw marauder taking Building easy, Marauder deal 20 dmg to building or 10?
8-10 stimmed marauder 2-2 upgrade, what do u expect ?
Meaning marines actually better at sniping building? Because medivac drop can carry total 8 marines, compare to 4 marauder.
8x 2/2 marines fighting buildings with 1armor will do 7dmg/shot = 56dmg/round of attack 4x 2/2 marauders fighting buildings with 1armor will do 23dmg/shot = 92dmg/round of attack
Marines do actually fire faster - but it doesn't really cover the difference.
So in short. Yeah, marauders slaughter buildings... big surprise, huh?
marines of CD of .86 and marauder of 1.5, so its actually really close.
wait just checker your math, marauders do 19.1 per hit, which is 76.4.
then DPS added in, marines do 48/second
Maruader do50.9333333
With stim:
marauders do 76.4/second (CD of 1 with stim)
Marines do 96/second with stim, so Marines do more dmg to buildings than marauders
you forgot about bonus to armored for marauders? ~~
no, just cant do math.
okay well it is 23dmg with marauder.
but even so, 2 attack upgrades while stimming vs a building with 1 armour, 4 marauders do 92 dps, and 8 marines do 96dps
oh and marines >>>> workers more than marauders do, so drop marines everyone!
Use some common sense. Burrowed banelings have very limited vision, so he couldn't have known there was an army passing by in time. Plus, you saw him finishing off that medivac with the mutas.
A bit late I know, I'll try to LR if nobody else does it.
NaDa 2 rax bunker rushing but it gets held off easily with little damage by SLush. NaDa expanding behind it.
10:00
Slush making a lot of units, grabbing a third. Spire and Centrifugal Hooks just finished.
NaDa is making a CC as well.
12:00
Failed drop by NaDa in the main, meanwhile pushing out and walking over burrowed banelings that do... nothing. Slush tries to break the push but NaDa saves a lot of his marines.
16:00
Slush cleans up the tanks of the push with mutas but loses all his banelings, zerglings and his third hatch.
NaDa retreats his marines over burrowed banelings and 2 unburrow for TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE DAMAGE.
On May 28 2011 09:50 XiaoJoyce- wrote: I saw marauder taking Building easy, Marauder deal 20 dmg to building or 10?
8-10 stimmed marauder 2-2 upgrade, what do u expect ?
Meaning marines actually better at sniping building? Because medivac drop can carry total 8 marines, compare to 4 marauder.
8x 2/2 marines fighting buildings with 1armor will do 7dmg/shot = 56dmg/round of attack 4x 2/2 marauders fighting buildings with 1armor will do 23dmg/shot = 92dmg/round of attack
Marines do actually fire faster - but it doesn't really cover the difference.
So in short. Yeah, marauders slaughter buildings... big surprise, huh?
marines of CD of .86 and marauder of 1.5, so its actually really close.
wait just checker your math, marauders do 19.1 per hit, which is 76.4.
then DPS added in, marines do 48/second
Maruader do50.9333333
With stim:
marauders do 76.4/second (CD of 1 with stim)
Marines do 96/second with stim, so Marines do more dmg to buildings than marauders
Why are you counting stim as a 100% attack speed increase for marines? It's a 50% increase for both units.
Mauraders with 2+ attack do 23 damage per shot against buildings. 23*4/1.5 ~= 61 dps Marines with 2+ attack deal 6 damage per shot against buildings. 6*8/0.86 ~= 56 dps.
Stim increases both units dps with 50%, so it's pretty much the same with stim.
So, Marauders deal more damage and drops faster. I'd say marauder drops are slightly better.
A bit late I know, I'll try to LR if nobody else does it.
NaDa 2 rax bunker rushing but it gets held off easily with little damage by SLush. NaDa expanding behind it.
10:00
Slush making a lot of units, grabbing a third. Spire and Centrifugal Hooks just finished.
NaDa is making a CC as well.
12:00
Failed drop by NaDa in the main, meanwhile pushing out and walking over burrowed banelings that do... nothing. Slush tries to break the push but NaDa saves a lot of his marines.
16:00
Slush cleans up the tanks of the push with mutas but loses all his banelings, zerglings and his third hatch.
NaDa retreats his marines over burrowed banelings and 2 unburrow for TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE DAMAGE.
20:00
Slush invests a lot of gas into mutas, snipes a lot of siege tanks but the marine counter snipes Slush his 4th. Slush slightly behind on workers as well as supply, but more importantly 3 bases against 4.
On May 28 2011 10:17 1Eris1 wrote: Burrowed banelings are so overrated. You honestly can't keep an eye on them, so theres like a 10% chance they'll work
On May 28 2011 10:17 1Eris1 wrote: Burrowed banelings are so overrated. You honestly can't keep an eye on them, so theres like a 10% chance they'll work
Just because it's hard doesn't mean you don't try to do it IMO.
A bit late I know, I'll try to LR if nobody else does it.
NaDa 2 rax bunker rushing but it gets held off easily with little damage by SLush. NaDa expanding behind it.
10:00
Slush making a lot of units, grabbing a third. Spire and Centrifugal Hooks just finished.
NaDa is making a CC as well.
12:00
Failed drop by NaDa in the main, meanwhile pushing out and walking over burrowed banelings that do... nothing. Slush tries to break the push but NaDa saves a lot of his marines.
16:00
Slush cleans up the tanks of the push with mutas but loses all his banelings, zerglings and his third hatch.
NaDa retreats his marines over burrowed banelings and 2 unburrow for TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE DAMAGE.
20:00
Slush invests a lot of gas into mutas, snipes a lot of siege tanks but the marine counter snipes Slush his 4th. Slush slightly behind on workers as well as supply, but more importantly 3 bases against 4.
Slush sacs a lot of banelings to get the 4th PF.
22:00
Mutas harass the 5th of NaDa, NaDa counters and runs into Slush his 3rd and destroys it, as well as all of Slush' banelings which fail to do enough damage. Slush GGs.
On May 28 2011 10:17 1Eris1 wrote: Burrowed banelings are so overrated. You honestly can't keep an eye on them, so theres like a 10% chance they'll work
YOU can't keep an eye on them. There's plenty of room for a skilled player to use them.
On May 28 2011 10:17 1Eris1 wrote: Burrowed banelings are so overrated. You honestly can't keep an eye on them, so theres like a 10% chance they'll work
Good players that that watch minimap all the time would have noticed, or they tap their control group
On May 28 2011 10:17 1Eris1 wrote: Burrowed banelings are so overrated. You honestly can't keep an eye on them, so theres like a 10% chance they'll work
you can set them on auto-unburrow you know. would have worked wonders at the end right before slush gg'd
Slush had the right ideas, just couldn't execute. I feel like when marines get to that size with tanks. Infesters are a better choice, banelings rarely connect at that point against a good terran. Just my personal preference though.
On May 28 2011 10:17 1Eris1 wrote: Burrowed banelings are so overrated. You honestly can't keep an eye on them, so theres like a 10% chance they'll work
YOU can't keep an eye on them. There's plenty of room for a skilled player to use them.
Then why do they never work 90% of the time pro players do it? Exactly. Maybe if your sitting at 200/200, but when he's pushing and your constantly macroing, no they aren't worth it
On May 28 2011 09:50 XiaoJoyce- wrote: I saw marauder taking Building easy, Marauder deal 20 dmg to building or 10?
8-10 stimmed marauder 2-2 upgrade, what do u expect ?
Meaning marines actually better at sniping building? Because medivac drop can carry total 8 marines, compare to 4 marauder.
8x 2/2 marines fighting buildings with 1armor will do 7dmg/shot = 56dmg/round of attack 4x 2/2 marauders fighting buildings with 1armor will do 23dmg/shot = 92dmg/round of attack
Marines do actually fire faster - but it doesn't really cover the difference.
So in short. Yeah, marauders slaughter buildings... big surprise, huh?
marines of CD of .86 and marauder of 1.5, so its actually really close.
wait just checker your math, marauders do 19.1 per hit, which is 76.4.
then DPS added in, marines do 48/second
Maruader do50.9333333
With stim:
marauders do 76.4/second (CD of 1 with stim)
Marines do 96/second with stim, so Marines do more dmg to buildings than marauders
Why are you counting stim as a 100% attack speed increase for marines? It's a 50% increase for both units.
Mauraders with 2+ attack do 23 damage per shot against buildings. 23*4/1.5 ~= 61 dps Marines with 2+ attack deal 6 damage per shot against buildings. 6*8/0.86 ~= 56 dps.
Stim increases both units dps with 50%, so it's pretty much the same with stim.
So, Marauders deal more damage and drops faster. I'd say marauder drops are slightly better.
I just want to find out if Marauder +10 dmg against armored apply to building. I guess it does. Thank.
He missed 3 or 4 opportunities to take out large groups of marines. You guys may not have noticed but toward the end, you could see on the minimap his giant marine army walked right over 2 burrowed banelings.
really impressed by slush. unfortunately not quite enough.
Unburrow on the first push = win. Even if he misses the first push and unburrows on the first batch of reinforcements, he'd still easily hold his 3rd and may still pull off a win.
On May 28 2011 10:19 Serelitz wrote: If anyone has any comments on my LR btw, feel free. First time I'm trying this but I figure it's always good if at least someone does it.
On May 28 2011 10:17 1Eris1 wrote: Burrowed banelings are so overrated. You honestly can't keep an eye on them, so theres like a 10% chance they'll work
If you arent good enough to always have an eye on them (and slush clearly isnt good enough, as he missed the opportunity everytime, except when the units he was moving were closeby), then atleast show some good decision making and turn them to auto-unburrow. That way you will atleast guarantee to hit something (if the terran just move commanded his units, they will die to them). He didnt even manage to make that decision. Slush is terrible.
On May 28 2011 09:50 XiaoJoyce- wrote: I saw marauder taking Building easy, Marauder deal 20 dmg to building or 10?
8-10 stimmed marauder 2-2 upgrade, what do u expect ?
Meaning marines actually better at sniping building? Because medivac drop can carry total 8 marines, compare to 4 marauder.
8x 2/2 marines fighting buildings with 1armor will do 7dmg/shot = 56dmg/round of attack 4x 2/2 marauders fighting buildings with 1armor will do 23dmg/shot = 92dmg/round of attack
Marines do actually fire faster - but it doesn't really cover the difference.
So in short. Yeah, marauders slaughter buildings... big surprise, huh?
marines of CD of .86 and marauder of 1.5, so its actually really close.
wait just checker your math, marauders do 19.1 per hit, which is 76.4.
then DPS added in, marines do 48/second
Maruader do50.9333333
With stim:
marauders do 76.4/second (CD of 1 with stim)
Marines do 96/second with stim, so Marines do more dmg to buildings than marauders
Why are you counting stim as a 100% attack speed increase for marines? It's a 50% increase for both units.
Mauraders with 2+ attack do 23 damage per shot against buildings. 23*4/1.5 ~= 61 dps Marines with 2+ attack deal 6 damage per shot against buildings. 6*8/0.86 ~= 56 dps.
Stim increases both units dps with 50%, so it's pretty much the same with stim.
So, Marauders deal more damage and drops faster. I'd say marauder drops are slightly better.
On May 28 2011 10:17 1Eris1 wrote: Burrowed banelings are so overrated. You honestly can't keep an eye on them, so theres like a 10% chance they'll work
YOU can't keep an eye on them. There's plenty of room for a skilled player to use them.
Then why do they never work 90% of the time pro players do it? Exactly. Maybe if your sitting at 200/200, but when he's pushing and your constantly macroing, no they aren't worth it
Where the hell do you get 90%? This is the first game I've ever seen that a player could have used them but didn't explode them.
On May 28 2011 10:19 Serelitz wrote: If anyone has any comments on my LR btw, feel free. First time I'm trying this but I figure it's always good if at least someone does it.
You have JulyZerg portrait for Strelok, otherwise looks good.
On May 28 2011 10:17 1Eris1 wrote: Burrowed banelings are so overrated. You honestly can't keep an eye on them, so theres like a 10% chance they'll work
YOU can't keep an eye on them. There's plenty of room for a skilled player to use them.
Then why do they never work 90% of the time pro players do it? Exactly. Maybe if your sitting at 200/200, but when he's pushing and your constantly macroing, no they aren't worth it
On May 28 2011 10:19 Serelitz wrote: If anyone has any comments on my LR btw, feel free. First time I'm trying this but I figure it's always good if at least someone does it.
thx a lot, i missed that first game, nice work anyways
On May 28 2011 09:50 XiaoJoyce- wrote: I saw marauder taking Building easy, Marauder deal 20 dmg to building or 10?
8-10 stimmed marauder 2-2 upgrade, what do u expect ?
Meaning marines actually better at sniping building? Because medivac drop can carry total 8 marines, compare to 4 marauder.
8x 2/2 marines fighting buildings with 1armor will do 7dmg/shot = 56dmg/round of attack 4x 2/2 marauders fighting buildings with 1armor will do 23dmg/shot = 92dmg/round of attack
Marines do actually fire faster - but it doesn't really cover the difference.
So in short. Yeah, marauders slaughter buildings... big surprise, huh?
marines of CD of .86 and marauder of 1.5, so its actually really close.
wait just checker your math, marauders do 19.1 per hit, which is 76.4.
then DPS added in, marines do 48/second
Maruader do50.9333333
With stim:
marauders do 76.4/second (CD of 1 with stim)
Marines do 96/second with stim, so Marines do more dmg to buildings than marauders
Why are you counting stim as a 100% attack speed increase for marines? It's a 50% increase for both units.
Mauraders with 2+ attack do 23 damage per shot against buildings. 23*4/1.5 ~= 61 dps Marines with 2+ attack deal 6 damage per shot against buildings. 6*8/0.86 ~= 56 dps.
Stim increases both units dps with 50%, so it's pretty much the same with stim.
So, Marauders deal more damage and drops faster. I'd say marauder drops are slightly better.
Marine DPS with stimpack is 10.5+1.7 per attack upgrade. thats 13.9 - 1 for armour is 12.9.
12.9*8 = 103.2
My math was a little off cos i was getting to it using these numbers
Cooldown: .8608 (-0.28693)
wait but now ive fucked up my armour cos its not /second its per attack. fml.
also, marine Damage us 7 v building not 6. 7*8 = 56. With stim, the cooldown is .58, meaning they attack almost twice per second. to get DPS, 56/.58 which is 96.
On May 28 2011 10:17 1Eris1 wrote: Burrowed banelings are so overrated. You honestly can't keep an eye on them, so theres like a 10% chance they'll work
YOU can't keep an eye on them. There's plenty of room for a skilled player to use them.
Then why do they never work 90% of the time pro players do it? Exactly. Maybe if your sitting at 200/200, but when he's pushing and your constantly macroing, no they aren't worth it
It's the same tactic as hold position lurkers, which BW players do with success all the time. If you aren't able to do it successfully it isn't because it's not worth it (2 banelings for 20 marines?) but because you don't have the mechanics/focus to pull it off.
On May 28 2011 10:19 Serelitz wrote: If anyone has any comments on my LR btw, feel free. First time I'm trying this but I figure it's always good if at least someone does it.
You have JulyZerg portrait for Strelok, otherwise looks good.
It's not my OP, I mean the actual live reporting :p
Can i say with all due respect and without being labeled an unconstructive internet tough guy hater that i really feel gretorp is a nice guy and all but i dont feel like his casting is very good. I am not enjoying it very much.
On May 28 2011 10:19 Serelitz wrote: If anyone has any comments on my LR btw, feel free. First time I'm trying this but I figure it's always good if at least someone does it.
You have JulyZerg portrait for Strelok, otherwise looks good.
He reported on the game I made the thread tell me these problems
On May 28 2011 10:17 1Eris1 wrote: Burrowed banelings are so overrated. You honestly can't keep an eye on them, so theres like a 10% chance they'll work
YOU can't keep an eye on them. There's plenty of room for a skilled player to use them.
Then why do they never work 90% of the time pro players do it? Exactly. Maybe if your sitting at 200/200, but when he's pushing and your constantly macroing, no they aren't worth it
Where the hell do you get 90%? This is the first game I've ever seen that a player could have used them but didn't explode them.
If you haven't watched any games with them then don't question the number. Watch some GSL games, they almost never work. Maybe no 10%, but it's hardly a 50/50 viable.
And to the person that said put it on auto-unburrow, thats a terrible idea, because you can easily lose 4 banelings just to damage a tank or something.
On May 28 2011 10:19 Serelitz wrote: If anyone has any comments on my LR btw, feel free. First time I'm trying this but I figure it's always good if at least someone does it.
You have JulyZerg portrait for Strelok, otherwise looks good.
It's not my OP, I mean the actual live reporting :p
On May 28 2011 10:17 1Eris1 wrote: Burrowed banelings are so overrated. You honestly can't keep an eye on them, so theres like a 10% chance they'll work
YOU can't keep an eye on them. There's plenty of room for a skilled player to use them.
Then why do they never work 90% of the time pro players do it? Exactly. Maybe if your sitting at 200/200, but when he's pushing and your constantly macroing, no they aren't worth it
It's the same tactic as hold position lurkers, which BW players do with success all the time. If you aren't able to do it successfully it isn't because it's not worth it (2 banelings for 20 marines?) but because you don't have the mechanics/focus to pull it off.
Yes, and thats my point. 90% of zerg pros aren't good enough to use them correctly.
In the 5 times I've seen slush do this, it's worked once.
And to the person that said put it on auto-unburrow, thats a terrible idea, because you can easily lose 4 banelings just to damage a tank or something.
Read properly. If you are a terrible player, DO IT. Slush is a terrible player. He should do it. A player like slush will never manage to catch any signifcant amount of units if he cant focus at them while doing other stuff. Therefore he is better off not doing it at all, or atleast setting them to auto-unburrow.
On May 28 2011 10:23 Serelitz wrote: Game 2 of NaDa vs SLush
Typhon Peaks
0:00
Slush spawning @ 2, NaDa spawning @ 7.
NaDa opening 2rax pressure again, Slush opening hatch first 15 pool, scouts the 2rax and lays down a fast spine crawler.
7:00
Slush finally gets his 4 gas. Spanishiwa build!
NaDa pressuring with some marines but gets held off with a few spine crawlers. Evo chamber and Lair going down for Slush, Factory for NaDa.
10:00
Slush getting a 3rd, +1 melee, burrow and Centrifugal Hooks. Getting a LOT of lings / banelings. He burrows some banelings in the path from NaDa's natural to the middle.
NaDa is ahead by 10 supply and is getting a medivac and siege mode.
On May 28 2011 10:17 1Eris1 wrote: Burrowed banelings are so overrated. You honestly can't keep an eye on them, so theres like a 10% chance they'll work
YOU can't keep an eye on them. There's plenty of room for a skilled player to use them.
Then why do they never work 90% of the time pro players do it? Exactly. Maybe if your sitting at 200/200, but when he's pushing and your constantly macroing, no they aren't worth it
Where the hell do you get 90%? This is the first game I've ever seen that a player could have used them but didn't explode them.
If you haven't watched any games with them then don't question the number. Watch some GSL games, they almost never work. Maybe no 10%, but it's hardly a 50/50 viable.
And to the person that said put it on auto-unburrow, thats a terrible idea, because you can easily lose 4 banelings just to damage a tank or something.
I have watched a TON of games with them used effectively. Nestea vs sc, specifically game 5. Zenio vs Boxer in nasl, game 3, were the most recent. You're making up the numbers to try to make bad players with not enough multitasking skills feel better.
On May 28 2011 10:23 Serelitz wrote: Game 2 of NaDa vs SLush
Typhon Peaks
0:00
Slush spawning @ 2, NaDa spawning @ 7.
NaDa opening 2rax pressure again, Slush opening hatch first 15 pool, scouts the 2rax and lays down a fast spine crawler.
7:00
Slush finally gets his 4 gas. Spanishiwa build!
NaDa pressuring with some marines but gets held off with a few spine crawlers. Evo chamber and Lair going down for Slush, Factory for NaDa.
10:00
Slush getting a 3rd, +1 melee, burrow and Centrifugal Hooks. Getting a LOT of lings / banelings. He burrows some banelings in the path from NaDa's natural to the middle.
NaDa is ahead by 10 supply and is getting a medivac and siege mode.
12:00
Slush getting an infestation pit, NaDa makes missile turrets in anticipation of the mutas that are coming. NaDa getting a 3rd and +1 armor, Slush gets fast +2 melee. NaDa pushes out and starsenses almost all burrowed banelings.
On May 28 2011 09:50 XiaoJoyce- wrote: I saw marauder taking Building easy, Marauder deal 20 dmg to building or 10?
8-10 stimmed marauder 2-2 upgrade, what do u expect ?
Meaning marines actually better at sniping building? Because medivac drop can carry total 8 marines, compare to 4 marauder.
8x 2/2 marines fighting buildings with 1armor will do 7dmg/shot = 56dmg/round of attack 4x 2/2 marauders fighting buildings with 1armor will do 23dmg/shot = 92dmg/round of attack
Marines do actually fire faster - but it doesn't really cover the difference.
So in short. Yeah, marauders slaughter buildings... big surprise, huh?
marines of CD of .86 and marauder of 1.5, so its actually really close.
wait just checker your math, marauders do 19.1 per hit, which is 76.4.
then DPS added in, marines do 48/second
Maruader do50.9333333
With stim:
marauders do 76.4/second (CD of 1 with stim)
Marines do 96/second with stim, so Marines do more dmg to buildings than marauders
Why are you counting stim as a 100% attack speed increase for marines? It's a 50% increase for both units.
Mauraders with 2+ attack do 23 damage per shot against buildings. 23*4/1.5 ~= 61 dps Marines with 2+ attack deal 6 damage per shot against buildings. 6*8/0.86 ~= 56 dps.
Stim increases both units dps with 50%, so it's pretty much the same with stim.
So, Marauders deal more damage and drops faster. I'd say marauder drops are slightly better.
Marine DPS with stimpack is 10.5+1.7 per attack upgrade. thats 13.9 - 1 for armour is 12.9.
12.9*8 = 103.2
My math was a little off cos i was getting to it using these numbers
Cooldown: .8608 (-0.28693)
wait but now ive fucked up my armour cos its not /second its per attack. fml.
also, marine Damage us 7 v building not 6. 7*8 = 56. With stim, the cooldown is .58, meaning they attack almost twice per second. to get DPS, 56/.58 which is 96.
Ye, my fault there. Marauders do 92 DPS with stim (4*23*1.5/1.5), which means it's quite even.
This is getting kinda offtopic though, so let's leave it there.
On May 28 2011 10:23 Serelitz wrote: Game 2 of NaDa vs SLush
Typhon Peaks
0:00
Slush spawning @ 2, NaDa spawning @ 7.
NaDa opening 2rax pressure again, Slush opening hatch first 15 pool, scouts the 2rax and lays down a fast spine crawler.
7:00
Slush finally gets his 4 gas. Spanishiwa build!
NaDa pressuring with some marines but gets held off with a few spine crawlers. Evo chamber and Lair going down for Slush, Factory for NaDa.
10:00
Slush getting a 3rd, +1 melee, burrow and Centrifugal Hooks. Getting a LOT of lings / banelings. He burrows some banelings in the path from NaDa's natural to the middle.
NaDa is ahead by 10 supply and is getting a medivac and siege mode.
12:00
Slush getting an infestation pit, NaDa makes missile turrets in anticipation of the mutas that are coming. NaDa getting a 3rd and +1 armor, Slush gets fast +2 melee. NaDa pushes out and starsenses almost all burrowed banelings.
14:00
Ling/baneling force doesn't connect, NaDa's marines clean up the 3rd while mutas snipe a few tanks. NaDa retreats his army but surprisingly isn't in a supply lead. NaDa does have a base up over Slush and is making a 4th, with all 3 bases being orbitals so far.
On May 28 2011 10:17 1Eris1 wrote: Burrowed banelings are so overrated. You honestly can't keep an eye on them, so theres like a 10% chance they'll work
YOU can't keep an eye on them. There's plenty of room for a skilled player to use them.
Then why do they never work 90% of the time pro players do it? Exactly. Maybe if your sitting at 200/200, but when he's pushing and your constantly macroing, no they aren't worth it
It's the same tactic as hold position lurkers, which BW players do with success all the time. If you aren't able to do it successfully it isn't because it's not worth it (2 banelings for 20 marines?) but because you don't have the mechanics/focus to pull it off.
Yes, and thats my point. 90% of zerg pros aren't good enough to use them correctly.
In the 5 times I've seen slush do this, it's worked once.
I've seen other pros succeed amazingly with baneling mines; Slush is pretty low tier as far as sc2 zerg progamers.
On May 28 2011 10:23 Serelitz wrote: Game 2 of NaDa vs SLush
Typhon Peaks
0:00
Slush spawning @ 2, NaDa spawning @ 7.
NaDa opening 2rax pressure again, Slush opening hatch first 15 pool, scouts the 2rax and lays down a fast spine crawler.
7:00
Slush finally gets his 4 gas. Spanishiwa build!
NaDa pressuring with some marines but gets held off with a few spine crawlers. Evo chamber and Lair going down for Slush, Factory for NaDa.
10:00
Slush getting a 3rd, +1 melee, burrow and Centrifugal Hooks. Getting a LOT of lings / banelings. He burrows some banelings in the path from NaDa's natural to the middle.
NaDa is ahead by 10 supply and is getting a medivac and siege mode.
12:00
Slush getting an infestation pit, NaDa makes missile turrets in anticipation of the mutas that are coming. NaDa getting a 3rd and +1 armor, Slush gets fast +2 melee. NaDa pushes out and starsenses almost all burrowed banelings.
14:00
Ling/baneling force doesn't connect, NaDa's marines clean up the 3rd while mutas snipe a few tanks. NaDa retreats his army but surprisingly isn't in a supply lead. NaDa does have a base up over Slush and is making a 4th, with all 3 bases being orbitals so far.
18:00
Slush' 3rd finished again, Slush double expanding @ northern 4th + the 11 o'clock 3rd and attacks NaDa's forces while his tanks aren't sieged. Doesn't kill the force but deals a TON of damage with good fungals and dead tanks.
On May 28 2011 10:23 Serelitz wrote: Game 2 of NaDa vs SLush
Typhon Peaks
0:00
Slush spawning @ 2, NaDa spawning @ 7.
NaDa opening 2rax pressure again, Slush opening hatch first 15 pool, scouts the 2rax and lays down a fast spine crawler.
7:00
Slush finally gets his 4 gas. Spanishiwa build!
NaDa pressuring with some marines but gets held off with a few spine crawlers. Evo chamber and Lair going down for Slush, Factory for NaDa.
10:00
Slush getting a 3rd, +1 melee, burrow and Centrifugal Hooks. Getting a LOT of lings / banelings. He burrows some banelings in the path from NaDa's natural to the middle.
NaDa is ahead by 10 supply and is getting a medivac and siege mode.
12:00
Slush getting an infestation pit, NaDa makes missile turrets in anticipation of the mutas that are coming. NaDa getting a 3rd and +1 armor, Slush gets fast +2 melee. NaDa pushes out and starsenses almost all burrowed banelings.
14:00
Ling/baneling force doesn't connect, NaDa's marines clean up the 3rd while mutas snipe a few tanks. NaDa retreats his army but surprisingly isn't in a supply lead. NaDa does have a base up over Slush and is making a 4th, with all 3 bases being orbitals so far.
18:00
Slush' 3rd finished again, Slush double expanding @ northern 4th + the 11 o'clock 3rd and attacks NaDa's forces while his tanks aren't sieged. Doesn't kill the force but deals a TON of damage with good fungals and dead tanks.
NaDa's CC landing at the southern 4th.
21:00
Slush making a greater spire. NaDa has a TON of siege tanks but not that many marines.
Slush attacks into sieged tanks with lings and doesn't do enough damage. Slush is 30 supply behind and NaDa takes out the 3rd again.
On May 28 2011 10:23 Serelitz wrote: Game 2 of NaDa vs SLush
Typhon Peaks
0:00
Slush spawning @ 2, NaDa spawning @ 7.
NaDa opening 2rax pressure again, Slush opening hatch first 15 pool, scouts the 2rax and lays down a fast spine crawler.
7:00
Slush finally gets his 4 gas. Spanishiwa build!
NaDa pressuring with some marines but gets held off with a few spine crawlers. Evo chamber and Lair going down for Slush, Factory for NaDa.
10:00
Slush getting a 3rd, +1 melee, burrow and Centrifugal Hooks. Getting a LOT of lings / banelings. He burrows some banelings in the path from NaDa's natural to the middle.
NaDa is ahead by 10 supply and is getting a medivac and siege mode.
12:00
Slush getting an infestation pit, NaDa makes missile turrets in anticipation of the mutas that are coming. NaDa getting a 3rd and +1 armor, Slush gets fast +2 melee. NaDa pushes out and starsenses almost all burrowed banelings.
14:00
Ling/baneling force doesn't connect, NaDa's marines clean up the 3rd while mutas snipe a few tanks. NaDa retreats his army but surprisingly isn't in a supply lead. NaDa does have a base up over Slush and is making a 4th, with all 3 bases being orbitals so far.
18:00
Slush' 3rd finished again, Slush double expanding @ northern 4th + the 11 o'clock 3rd and attacks NaDa's forces while his tanks aren't sieged. Doesn't kill the force but deals a TON of damage with good fungals and dead tanks.
NaDa's CC landing at the southern 4th.
21:00
Slush making a greater spire. NaDa has a TON of siege tanks but not that many marines.
Slush attacks into sieged tanks with lings and doesn't do enough damage. Slush is 30 supply behind and NaDa takes out the 3rd again.
Slush making 3 brood lords.
24:00 NaDa discovers Slush' 5th and snipes it while grabbing his own 5th. Engagement at the 4th of Slush, NaDa's forces get demolished. He's behind on bases still though.
On May 28 2011 10:23 Serelitz wrote: Game 2 of NaDa vs SLush
Typhon Peaks
0:00
Slush spawning @ 2, NaDa spawning @ 7.
NaDa opening 2rax pressure again, Slush opening hatch first 15 pool, scouts the 2rax and lays down a fast spine crawler.
7:00
Slush finally gets his 4 gas. Spanishiwa build!
NaDa pressuring with some marines but gets held off with a few spine crawlers. Evo chamber and Lair going down for Slush, Factory for NaDa.
10:00
Slush getting a 3rd, +1 melee, burrow and Centrifugal Hooks. Getting a LOT of lings / banelings. He burrows some banelings in the path from NaDa's natural to the middle.
NaDa is ahead by 10 supply and is getting a medivac and siege mode.
12:00
Slush getting an infestation pit, NaDa makes missile turrets in anticipation of the mutas that are coming. NaDa getting a 3rd and +1 armor, Slush gets fast +2 melee. NaDa pushes out and starsenses almost all burrowed banelings.
14:00
Ling/baneling force doesn't connect, NaDa's marines clean up the 3rd while mutas snipe a few tanks. NaDa retreats his army but surprisingly isn't in a supply lead. NaDa does have a base up over Slush and is making a 4th, with all 3 bases being orbitals so far.
18:00
Slush' 3rd finished again, Slush double expanding @ northern 4th + the 11 o'clock 3rd and attacks NaDa's forces while his tanks aren't sieged. Doesn't kill the force but deals a TON of damage with good fungals and dead tanks.
NaDa's CC landing at the southern 4th.
21:00
Slush making a greater spire. NaDa has a TON of siege tanks but not that many marines.
Slush attacks into sieged tanks with lings and doesn't do enough damage. Slush is 30 supply behind and NaDa takes out the 3rd again.
Slush making 3 brood lords.
24:00 NaDa discovers Slush' 5th and snipes it while grabbing his own 5th. Engagement at the 4th of Slush, NaDa's forces get demolished. He's behind on bases still though.
26:00
Engagement in the middle without the brood lords. 2 thors, a few marines and vikings and 2 medivacs survive, as well as Slush' infestors.
NaDa pushing out again with more thors and marines and Slush doesn't have the economy to produce enough forces. NaDa walks into Slush' natural as Slush GGs.
NaDa's god damn macro mechanics are just insane, 3 and a half mining bases, on 5 base while maintaining that army, while slush only had 1 and a half mining bases, how on earth does he do it.
Very nice series. Pity that Slush didn't have patience for the first big battles; always engaging right BEFORE the next important thing comes out for him. what could have been...
On May 28 2011 10:40 Headnoob wrote: All those engagements aside
NaDa's god damn macro mechanics are just insane, 3 and a half mining bases, on 5 base while maintaining that army, while slush only had 1 and a half mining bases, how on earth does he do it.
400+ APM is OP.
He lost half a dozen tanks at one point and was still up ~40 supply... lol
On May 28 2011 10:40 Scila wrote: Slush got outplayed really hard. I feel that these 2 games should've been even more decisive in favor of Nada, seeing how well he played.
I think NaDa was so focused on out-macroing Slush he didn't really worry too much
On May 28 2011 10:40 Mailing wrote: I don't understand these terrans...
Well, I got 3/3 marines and tanks.
My enemy has 10 infestors.
Should I
A. Make thors that can be NP
B. Make Ghosts that can make the infestors useless and let me a-move the zerg
They never make ghosts -_-
What do you mean a-move the Zerg with ghosts? By definition you CAN'T a-move with ghosts. You're acting as if NP has no counter, when you could just, idk, kill the infestor?
On May 28 2011 10:40 Mailing wrote: I don't understand these terrans...
Well, I got 3/3 marines and tanks.
My enemy has 10 infestors.
Should I
A. Make thors that can be NP
B. Make Ghosts that can make the infestors useless and let me a-move the zerg
They never make ghosts -_-
Nada had a ghost academy making but he won b4 he made any ghosts. But i think ghosts will start to be used more once terrans figure out the proper timings for them.
I made an effort to watch NaDa's minerals the whole time. Rarely saw either gas/minerals top 200-300. Seems like when he's in practice-form he really is the best mechanics guy out there in SC2 right now... 3-4 mining bases and still no resource pile up, while microing everywhere? sheesh
Slush makes units way to early. He manages to stay alive due to those units, but he is basically already dead.. Nada has more supply and can resupply faster because he has a good economy. Slush doesnt have any economy but a good army -> he defends a few pushes, just to notice that he has absolutely no money and cant remake anything. Or actually, he doesnt notice and stays in the game for another 10 minutes....
Mr Bitter really is amazing. Think Gretorp+Bitter are probably the best combo of NASL, not because Bitter is better than Incontrol, but because I feel Gretorp is better with Bitter than Incontrol(for whatever reason...)
anyone else really impressed with Mr. Bitter? He makes NASL infinitely more enjoyable on my end. His knowledge far surpasses Gretorp and speaks concisely without any real hiccups.
On May 28 2011 10:44 Sooji wrote: anyone else really impressed with Mr. Bitter? He makes NASL infinitely more enjoyable on my end. His knowledge far surpasses Gretorp and speaks concisely without any real hiccups.
Why do u think his knowledge is better than gretorp ? bitter is asking gretorp about some insight all the time...
On May 28 2011 10:40 Mailing wrote: I don't understand these terrans...
Well, I got 3/3 marines and tanks.
My enemy has 10 infestors.
Should I
A. Make thors that can be NP
B. Make Ghosts that can make the infestors useless and let me a-move the zerg
They never make ghosts -_-
What do you mean a-move the Zerg with ghosts? By definition you CAN'T a-move with ghosts. You're acting as if NP has no counter, when you could just, idk, kill the infestor?
Yes, a terran can a-move zerg without infestors. He spent so much on infestors he didn't have enough banes to be too scary.
And no, you can't kill the infestors if they NP thors, since there will be a wall of broodlings and fungals to keep you out of range.
That's why you make 5 ghosts when you are ahead, spam EMP, stim and go go go and win.
I don't remember that last god damn time I saw EMP hit an infestor.
On May 28 2011 10:40 Mailing wrote: I don't understand these terrans...
Well, I got 3/3 marines and tanks.
My enemy has 10 infestors.
Should I
A. Make thors that can be NP
B. Make Ghosts that can make the infestors useless and let me a-move the zerg
They never make ghosts -_-
Thors were in response to the broods since tanks are more trouble than help once they are out and he needs to keep building stuff to keep his army count ticking he didn't have the Tlabed raxes to pump mass ghost i dont think, its easier to just go viking. He was also so far ahead I dont think it really matters what he builds there
On May 28 2011 10:17 1Eris1 wrote: Burrowed banelings are so overrated. You honestly can't keep an eye on them, so theres like a 10% chance they'll work
YOU can't keep an eye on them. There's plenty of room for a skilled player to use them.
Then why do they never work 90% of the time pro players do it? Exactly. Maybe if your sitting at 200/200, but when he's pushing and your constantly macroing, no they aren't worth it
Where the hell do you get 90%? This is the first game I've ever seen that a player could have used them but didn't explode them.
If you haven't watched any games with them then don't question the number. Watch some GSL games, they almost never work. Maybe no 10%, but it's hardly a 50/50 viable.
And to the person that said put it on auto-unburrow, thats a terrible idea, because you can easily lose 4 banelings just to damage a tank or something.
Youre funny. Baneling mines are such a little invesment for the possibilty to take out entire army of marines and love how you just pull statistics out of your ass
On May 28 2011 10:40 Mailing wrote: I don't understand these terrans...
Well, I got 3/3 marines and tanks.
My enemy has 10 infestors.
Should I
A. Make thors that can be NP
B. Make Ghosts that can make the infestors useless and let me a-move the zerg
They never make ghosts -_-
What do you mean a-move the Zerg with ghosts? By definition you CAN'T a-move with ghosts. You're acting as if NP has no counter, when you could just, idk, kill the infestor?
Yes, a terran can a-move zerg without infestors. He spent so much on infestors he didn't have enough banes to be too scary.
And no, you can't kill the infestors if they NP thors, since there will be a wall of broodlings and fungals to keep you out of range.
That's why you make 5 ghosts when you are ahead, spam EMP, stim and go go go and win.
I don't remember that last god damn time I saw EMP hit an infestor.
It's like countering HT tech with thors.
A terran can a-move zerg ? really? speedlings/banelings rolling in and ur dead
On May 28 2011 10:40 Headnoob wrote: All those engagements aside
NaDa's god damn macro mechanics are just insane, 3 and a half mining bases, on 5 base while maintaining that army, while slush only had 1 and a half mining bases, how on earth does he do it.
this is why Nada is a god in korean esport history. He has always done things like that that should be impossible.
On May 28 2011 10:40 Mailing wrote: I don't understand these terrans...
Well, I got 3/3 marines and tanks.
My enemy has 10 infestors.
Should I
A. Make thors that can be NP
B. Make Ghosts that can make the infestors useless and let me a-move the zerg
They never make ghosts -_-
What do you mean a-move the Zerg with ghosts? By definition you CAN'T a-move with ghosts. You're acting as if NP has no counter, when you could just, idk, kill the infestor?
Yes, a terran can a-move zerg without infestors. He spent so much on infestors he didn't have enough banes to be too scary.
And no, you can't kill the infestors if they NP thors, since there will be a wall of broodlings and fungals to keep you out of range.
That's why you make 5 ghosts when you are ahead, spam EMP, stim and go go go and win.
I don't remember that last god damn time I saw EMP hit an infestor.
It's like countering HT tech with thors.
You act as if building ghosts has zero repercussions for the Terran. Notice how Slush had a very small army? Because Infestors took up a **** ton of resources. Those fungals were annoying, but without a backbone army to back them up, they were pointless.
Same thing with ghosts. They cut into your marine/tank/viking production: backbone units that win the game.
Ultimately, Nada won the game so I don't see what point you're trying to make at all. That he would've won the game also if he had gone Ghosts?
On May 28 2011 10:44 Sooji wrote: anyone else really impressed with Mr. Bitter? He makes NASL infinitely more enjoyable on my end. His knowledge far surpasses Gretorp and speaks concisely without any real hiccups.
Why do u think his knowledge is better than gretorp ? bitter is asking gretorp about some insight all the time...
Well thats what you do as a caster to keep the conversation going, but imo i would have to agree bitter is more knowledgeable or at the very least is able to communicate his thoughts more clearly. When gretorp trys to go into detail about zerg strategy most of the time it makes me cringe
On May 28 2011 10:40 Headnoob wrote: All those engagements aside
NaDa's god damn macro mechanics are just insane, 3 and a half mining bases, on 5 base while maintaining that army, while slush only had 1 and a half mining bases, how on earth does he do it.
this is why Nada is a god in korean esport history. He has always done things like that that should be impossible.
Yeah even top terran pros from eu/na can't macro well while they're microing and doing multiple harass. This kind of skill to be able to macro/micro so well only comes from years of work.
On May 28 2011 10:43 FallDownMarigold wrote: I made an effort to watch NaDa's minerals the whole time. Rarely saw either gas/minerals top 200-300. Seems like when he's in practice-form he really is the best mechanics guy out there in SC2 right now... 3-4 mining bases and still no resource pile up, while microing everywhere? sheesh
Or he queues up stuff because he is out of form and therefore, in actuality, has terrible macro. You cant really tell anything from watching the minerals if we are talking about terran, as they can queue up stuff. The only race you can apply that to (looking at minerals in order to evaluate how good the players macro is) is zerg, as they cant queue up anything besides Queens.
Im not saying that nada did that, but you cant be sure, therefore you shouldnt make such bold statements.
Even with zerg, having low resources can be deceiving, as people sometimes do stuff like building 10 spinecrawlers, which does make it look like he had good macro because his minerals stayed low, but actually he wasted 1000 minerals for static defense, that mightve been better off spent into units.
Having a high amount of unspent resources does imply bad macro. Having a low amount of unspent resources DOESNT necessarily imply anything. The implication only works one way, not both.
On May 28 2011 10:44 Drazerk wrote: Match 2 starting soon on Crevasse
Naniwa vs Axslav
Axslav is located at the Top right
While Naniwa is located in the Bottom right
4:30
Twilight council For Naniwa
Expansion on the way for Axslav
5:30
Forge going down for Axslav
Blink started for Naniwa
7:20
Naniwa tries to run up the base of Axslav but is caught with good force fields losing some stalkers before he escapes with blink further into the base of Axslav
On May 28 2011 10:40 Headnoob wrote: All those engagements aside
NaDa's god damn macro mechanics are just insane, 3 and a half mining bases, on 5 base while maintaining that army, while slush only had 1 and a half mining bases, how on earth does he do it.
this is why Nada is a god in korean esport history. He has always done things like that that should be impossible.
Yeah even top terran pros from eu/na can't macro well while they're microing and doing multiple harass. This kind of skill to be able to macro/micro so well only comes from years of work.
On May 28 2011 10:44 Drazerk wrote: Match 2 starting soon on Crevasse
Naniwa vs Axslav
Axslav is located at the Top right
While Naniwa is located in the Bottom right
4:30
Twilight council For Naniwa
Expansion on the way for Axslav
5:30
Forge going down for Axslav
Blink started for Naniwa
7:20
Naniwa tries to run up the base of Axslav but is caught with good force fields losing some stalkers before he escapes with blink further into the base of Axslav
9:00
The blink stalkers run into the probe line and starts to kill probes
On May 28 2011 10:46 Serelitz wrote: NaNiwa vs Axslav Game 1 on Crevasse
0:00
Naniwa spawning @ 2 Axslav spawning @ 7
4:00
Naniwa gets a zealot.
Axslav is getting an earlier 2nd gas, but only 1 probe on it. Axslav takes a Nexus and Naniwa is making a Twilight Council.
7:00
Naniwa with blinkstalkers at Axslav's ramp. Axslav making cannons at his ramp. Naniwa blinks past and kills a LOT of probes, and is almost thwarted due to good forcefields by Axslav. 3 stalkers vs 1 sentry and 1 stalker + 3 cannons.
Naniwa's reinforcements blink up as well and he runs behind the main's mineral line. Axslav GGs.
On May 28 2011 10:40 Headnoob wrote: All those engagements aside
NaDa's god damn macro mechanics are just insane, 3 and a half mining bases, on 5 base while maintaining that army, while slush only had 1 and a half mining bases, how on earth does he do it.
this is why Nada is a god in korean esport history. He has always done things like that that should be impossible.
Yeah even top terran pros from eu/na can't macro well while they're microing and doing multiple harass. This kind of skill to be able to macro/micro so well only comes from years of work.
i usually dont watch any PvP, but out of all the PvP ive watched, it seems the game is always decided on the first engagement, was same with alicia vs MC
On May 28 2011 10:40 Headnoob wrote: All those engagements aside
NaDa's god damn macro mechanics are just insane, 3 and a half mining bases, on 5 base while maintaining that army, while slush only had 1 and a half mining bases, how on earth does he do it.
this is why Nada is a god in korean esport history. He has always done things like that that should be impossible.
Yeah even top terran pros from eu/na can't macro well while they're microing and doing multiple harass. This kind of skill to be able to macro/micro so well only comes from years of work.
Have you ever seen SeleCT play? o_O
I thought Select is Korean.
EDIT: Not that I necessarily agree with the statement. I think there are definitely good macro'ers from Europe.
On May 28 2011 10:40 Headnoob wrote: All those engagements aside
NaDa's god damn macro mechanics are just insane, 3 and a half mining bases, on 5 base while maintaining that army, while slush only had 1 and a half mining bases, how on earth does he do it.
this is why Nada is a god in korean esport history. He has always done things like that that should be impossible.
Yeah even top terran pros from eu/na can't macro well while they're microing and doing multiple harass. This kind of skill to be able to macro/micro so well only comes from years of work.
On May 28 2011 10:40 Headnoob wrote: All those engagements aside
NaDa's god damn macro mechanics are just insane, 3 and a half mining bases, on 5 base while maintaining that army, while slush only had 1 and a half mining bases, how on earth does he do it.
this is why Nada is a god in korean esport history. He has always done things like that that should be impossible.
Yeah even top terran pros from eu/na can't macro well while they're microing and doing multiple harass. This kind of skill to be able to macro/micro so well only comes from years of work.
Have you ever seen SeleCT play? o_O
pretty sure TLO can do it too, if u watch his stream.
On May 28 2011 10:40 Headnoob wrote: All those engagements aside
NaDa's god damn macro mechanics are just insane, 3 and a half mining bases, on 5 base while maintaining that army, while slush only had 1 and a half mining bases, how on earth does he do it.
this is why Nada is a god in korean esport history. He has always done things like that that should be impossible.
Yeah even top terran pros from eu/na can't macro well while they're microing and doing multiple harass. This kind of skill to be able to macro/micro so well only comes from years of work.
Have you ever seen SeleCT play? o_O
I thought Select is Korean.
He lives in the States...
Shrug, only thing I know is that I see him with the Korean flag next to his name when he's listed in tourney threads and whatnot. Not like Idra was considered Korean even while living in Korea and being there for so long.
On May 28 2011 10:40 Headnoob wrote: All those engagements aside
NaDa's god damn macro mechanics are just insane, 3 and a half mining bases, on 5 base while maintaining that army, while slush only had 1 and a half mining bases, how on earth does he do it.
this is why Nada is a god in korean esport history. He has always done things like that that should be impossible.
Yeah even top terran pros from eu/na can't macro well while they're microing and doing multiple harass. This kind of skill to be able to macro/micro so well only comes from years of work.
Have you ever seen SeleCT play? o_O
pretty sure TLO can do it too, if u watch his stream.
On May 28 2011 10:40 Headnoob wrote: All those engagements aside
NaDa's god damn macro mechanics are just insane, 3 and a half mining bases, on 5 base while maintaining that army, while slush only had 1 and a half mining bases, how on earth does he do it.
this is why Nada is a god in korean esport history. He has always done things like that that should be impossible.
Yeah even top terran pros from eu/na can't macro well while they're microing and doing multiple harass. This kind of skill to be able to macro/micro so well only comes from years of work.
Have you ever seen SeleCT play? o_O
I thought Select is Korean.
He lives in the States...
Shrug, only thing I know is that I see him with the Korean flag next to his name when he's listed in tourney threads and whatnot. Not like Idra was considered Korean even while living in Korea and being there for so long.
Well, SeleCT has been in the States for awhile; for college, and I'm sure when they ask what flag he wants to represent, I'm sure he chose KR. Oh well, it doesn't matter, I kind of get what you're saying.. but I just wanted to throw in my two cents.
On May 28 2011 10:55 Ocedic wrote: Shrug, only thing I know is that I see him with the Korean flag next to his name when he's listed in tourney threads and whatnot. Not like Idra was considered Korean even while living in Korea and being there for so long.
Actually a lot of people did consider Idra a Korean while he was living in Korea. Korean as it applies to Starcraft is more about the environment than one's nationality. If you think about it, it makes sense since nationality by itself has nothing to do with your skill in Starcraft.
On May 28 2011 10:40 Headnoob wrote: All those engagements aside
NaDa's god damn macro mechanics are just insane, 3 and a half mining bases, on 5 base while maintaining that army, while slush only had 1 and a half mining bases, how on earth does he do it.
this is why Nada is a god in korean esport history. He has always done things like that that should be impossible.
Yeah even top terran pros from eu/na can't macro well while they're microing and doing multiple harass. This kind of skill to be able to macro/micro so well only comes from years of work.
Have you ever seen SeleCT play? o_O
I thought Select is Korean.
He lives in the States...
Shrug, only thing I know is that I see him with the Korean flag next to his name when he's listed in tourney threads and whatnot. Not like Idra was considered Korean even while living in Korea and being there for so long.
Yeah really good example cuz Select clearly only lives in USA to play SC ..... so what if hes born in Korea, in SC terms hes American.
Naniwa and MC have been greatly benefiting from 4 gate I feel. What will happen when they will be forced to play macro games more often? That's the question I wonder about these days.
On May 28 2011 11:00 Xxavi wrote: Terrible yet again.
Naniwa and MC have been greatly benefiting from 4 gate I feel. What will happen when they will be forced to play macro games more often? That's the question I wonder about these days.
They'll win with different builds. Or did you forget that Naniwa invented the anti-4gate 3gate? :/
On May 28 2011 11:00 Xxavi wrote: Terrible yet again.
Naniwa and MC have been greatly benefiting from 4 gate I feel. What will happen when they will be forced to play macro games more often? That's the question I wonder about these days.
Well PvP is also their best MU, and if you watched his stream recently you knew Axlasv didnt have much chance from the start.
On May 28 2011 11:00 Xxavi wrote: Terrible yet again.
Naniwa and MC have been greatly benefiting from 4 gate I feel. What will happen when they will be forced to play macro games more often? That's the question I wonder about these days.
Are u kidding me ? Naniwa is the BEST macro protoss by far, hes known for going nexus first in any match up other than PvP, and lately hes even going nexus first in PvP... not that it ever works in PvP.
On May 28 2011 11:00 Xxavi wrote: Terrible yet again.
Naniwa and MC have been greatly benefiting from 4 gate I feel. What will happen when they will be forced to play macro games more often? That's the question I wonder about these days.
On May 28 2011 11:01 cuppatea wrote: Axslav played risky because he was up against a superior player and knew he needed some sort of build order advantage to win
Why go with a build that's countered by your opponent's favorite PvP build though?
On May 28 2011 11:00 Xxavi wrote: Terrible yet again.
Naniwa and MC have been greatly benefiting from 4 gate I feel. What will happen when they will be forced to play macro games more often? That's the question I wonder about these days.
On May 28 2011 11:01 cuppatea wrote: Axslav played risky because he was up against a superior player and knew he needed some sort of build order advantage to win
Why go with a build that's countered by your opponent's favorite PvP build though?
Because he knew that Naniwa would beat him in for example 4gate vs 4gate.
On May 28 2011 11:00 Xxavi wrote: Terrible yet again.
Naniwa and MC have been greatly benefiting from 4 gate I feel. What will happen when they will be forced to play macro games more often? That's the question I wonder about these days.
Are u kidding me ? Naniwa is the BEST macro protoss by far, hes known for going nexus first in any match up other than PvP, and lately hes even going nexus first in PvP... not that it ever works in PvP.
On May 28 2011 11:01 cuppatea wrote: Axslav played risky because he was up against a superior player and knew he needed some sort of build order advantage to win
Why go with a build that's countered by your opponent's favorite PvP build though?
If Naniwa went blink stalkers Axlsav would have had enough sentries and immortals to stop it. Unfortunately he just assumed that Naniwa would be going blink stalker again.
I get that the match-up just got changed significantly, but it's still PvP and you have to be able to defend yourself in the early game. Axslav just seemed completely unprepared.
On May 28 2011 11:00 Xxavi wrote: Terrible yet again.
Naniwa and MC have been greatly benefiting from 4 gate I feel. What will happen when they will be forced to play macro games more often? That's the question I wonder about these days.
Are u kidding me ? Naniwa is the BEST macro protoss by far, hes known for going nexus first in any match up other than PvP, and lately hes even going nexus first in PvP... not that it ever works in PvP.
On May 28 2011 11:00 Xxavi wrote: Terrible yet again.
Naniwa and MC have been greatly benefiting from 4 gate I feel. What will happen when they will be forced to play macro games more often? That's the question I wonder about these days.
r u rly this stupid?
Let's not compare our capabilities. It might be better off for you
On May 28 2011 11:00 Xxavi wrote: Terrible yet again.
Naniwa and MC have been greatly benefiting from 4 gate I feel. What will happen when they will be forced to play macro games more often? That's the question I wonder about these days.
Are u kidding me ? Naniwa is the BEST macro protoss by far, hes known for going nexus first in any match up other than PvP, and lately hes even going nexus first in PvP... not that it ever works in PvP.
On May 28 2011 11:01 cuppatea wrote: Axslav played risky because he was up against a superior player and knew he needed some sort of build order advantage to win
Why go with a build that's countered by your opponent's favorite PvP build though?
If Naniwa went blink stalkers Axlsav would have had enough sentries and immortals to stop it. Unfortunately he just assumed that Naniwa would be going blink stalker again.
On May 28 2011 11:00 Xxavi wrote: Terrible yet again.
Naniwa and MC have been greatly benefiting from 4 gate I feel. What will happen when they will be forced to play macro games more often? That's the question I wonder about these days.
Are u kidding me ? Naniwa is the BEST macro protoss by far, hes known for going nexus first in any match up other than PvP, and lately hes even going nexus first in PvP... not that it ever works in PvP.
Wait what Nexus first in PvP.. i need reps.
learn to read, he said any matchup other than PvP
"and lately hes even going nexus first in PvP." How are you interpreting that?
On May 28 2011 11:00 Xxavi wrote: Terrible yet again.
Naniwa and MC have been greatly benefiting from 4 gate I feel. What will happen when they will be forced to play macro games more often? That's the question I wonder about these days.
Are u kidding me ? Naniwa is the BEST macro protoss by far, hes known for going nexus first in any match up other than PvP, and lately hes even going nexus first in PvP... not that it ever works in PvP.
Wait what Nexus first in PvP.. i need reps.
Yea, he did it on his stream, against Sase whos a beast in PvP, didnt go very well
On May 28 2011 11:00 Xxavi wrote: Terrible yet again.
Naniwa and MC have been greatly benefiting from 4 gate I feel. What will happen when they will be forced to play macro games more often? That's the question I wonder about these days.
r u rly this stupid?
Let's not compare our capabilities. It might be better off for you
Stop talking, both of you. There will be no flame wars in a LR thread.
On May 28 2011 11:00 Xxavi wrote: Terrible yet again.
Naniwa and MC have been greatly benefiting from 4 gate I feel. What will happen when they will be forced to play macro games more often? That's the question I wonder about these days.
Is that what keeps you up at night?
Well they both have good micro, which 4 gate rewards. They can both play a macro game when required but it makes sense they tend to play towards their superior micro.
If you understand how Protoss works it will make sense...
On May 28 2011 11:00 Xxavi wrote: Terrible yet again.
Naniwa and MC have been greatly benefiting from 4 gate I feel. What will happen when they will be forced to play macro games more often? That's the question I wonder about these days.
r u rly this stupid?
Let's not compare our capabilities. It might be better off for you
I'd take my chances judging by your retarded statement ;D;D;D
When squirtle was in that little nook, it would be cool if DDE floated his barracks over and landed it, blocking all of squirtle's units in. It probably wouldn't work, though.
That seemed totally unfair, he had like 3 bunkers, a ton of units and scv repairing, good play by squirtle anyways, not a lot of P players could have made that work.
On May 28 2011 11:14 DeltruS wrote: When squirtle was in that little nook, it would be cool if DDE floated his barracks over and landed it, blocking all of squirtle's units in. It probably wouldn't work, though.
lol it would be cool but pretty much impossible with the slow building speed and squirtle would never sit and wait
On May 28 2011 11:14 DeltruS wrote: When squirtle was in that little nook, it would be cool if DDE floated his barracks over and landed it, blocking all of squirtle's units in. It probably wouldn't work, though.
I don't think he could afford to lose the production
On May 28 2011 11:15 Battle wrote: That seemed totally unfair, he had like 3 bunkers, a ton of units and scv repairing, good play by squirtle anyways, not a lot of P players could have made that work.
there's a reason why a lot of people who fe get mass rax instead of teching really quickly
I love that play from Squirtle. So many terrans like to FE and tech simultaneously, leaving them a bit more open to early aggression. This also should slow DDE's tech or expos down next match in favor of a more cautious build I would think.
On May 28 2011 11:15 Battle wrote: That seemed totally unfair, he had like 3 bunkers, a ton of units and scv repairing, good play by squirtle anyways, not a lot of P players could have made that work.
Any protoss player with a pulse could make that work, there was no scv repair due to force fields.
On May 28 2011 11:15 Battle wrote: That seemed totally unfair, he had like 3 bunkers, a ton of units and scv repairing, good play by squirtle anyways, not a lot of P players could have made that work.
DDE actually had very few units. He FE and he teched up to fact and starport, but did not use either.
He should have skipped the tech when scouting the all in.
Mr. Bitter is f*cking amasing! NASL has never been better, he delivers good ingame action and also after game comments! Let Mr.Bitter comment and I can garantee over 1000+ viewers!!! Fantastic real-live commentator!!! Love u Mr. Bitter!
What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
You still need units to hold an all-in. Bunkers don't attack on their own
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
He built a factory and a starport, but didn't make anything with them.
Alicia is definitely really good, but MC def made some mistakes. Not an MC fanboy, just noting that Artosis nerdgasmed so hard that Alicia's play might be mega super epic overhyped. It will be interesting to see hoe Alicia does in the rest of the tourney since his PvT is just ridiculous and he has byun and then possibly clide coming up in the next rounds.
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
You still need units to hold an all-in. Bunkers don't attack on their own
Are you trying to say that he had no units? All his bunkers were full and he even had spare units. Even a third bunker was on its way. If you want to counter argue something, atleast try properly.
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
You still need units to hold an all-in. Bunkers don't attack on their own
Are you trying to say that he had no units? All his bunkers were full and he even had spare units. Even a third bunker was on its way. If you want to counter argue something, atleast try properly.
You must be new here, so here's a tip; refrain from arguing and complaining about balance in LR threads.
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
You still need units to hold an all-in. Bunkers don't attack on their own
Are you trying to say that he had no units? All his bunkers were full and he even had spare units. Even a third bunker was on its way. If you want to counter argue something, atleast try properly.
He didn't have enough units due his decision to make an idle factory/starport. I wasn't saying that he literally had no units, but clearly not enough to hold that attack.
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
You still need units to hold an all-in. Bunkers don't attack on their own
Are you trying to say that he had no units? All his bunkers were full and he even had spare units. Even a third bunker was on its way. If you want to counter argue something, atleast try properly.
4 gates > 2 rax
if you watch any pro terran, they make like 5 rax if they fe
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
You still need units to hold an all-in. Bunkers don't attack on their own
Are you trying to say that he had no units? All his bunkers were full and he even had spare units. Even a third bunker was on its way. If you want to counter argue something, atleast try properly.
oh boohoo, clearly his FE into 2rax should have held a 4gate no expansion allin. the game is imbalanced! it's impossible to survive against protoss allin!
Squirtle skipping colossus and going to high temps. DDE has 3 ghosts with moebius reactor, though. He should be prepared if he controls his units correctly.
Those were some of the most brutal psi storms I've ever seen. No emps on the high templars. FFs hold units in place and they all just basically stand there and die.
On May 28 2011 11:16 Drazerk wrote: Game Two is about to Begin on Typhon peaks
DDE vs Squirtle
Squirtle is 1-0 up in the series
Game two is now starting
DDE is positioned in the bottom right
While Squirtle is located at the Top right corner
3:00
Expansion is starting for Squirtle Followed by a gateway
4:30
Expansion is going up for DDE while pushing across the map with 1 marauder with concussive shells, 1 marine and one scv
Squirtle is up to 3 gates
5:30
DDE kills 5 probes with his push only losing the marauder and scv
Squirtle is getting his Robo while DDE is getting stim and landing his Command centre
9:00
Squirtle is getting a forge
stim and combat shield just are about to finish for DDE
10:00
DDE tries to push up the natural of Squirtle but sees a high sentry count and retreats starting his ghost academy
13:00
Charge is starting now for Squirtle as his third base and Storm finish
Ghosts are being produced for DDE
14:30
DDE engages getting some good EMPs but sentries and HTs are uneffected with a good wall off with forcefields he storms the army of DDE which evaporates
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
You still need units to hold an all-in. Bunkers don't attack on their own
Are you trying to say that he had no units? All his bunkers were full and he even had spare units. Even a third bunker was on its way. If you want to counter argue something, atleast try properly.
4 gates > 2 rax
if you watch any pro terran, they make like 5 rax if they fe
so you are saying dde is not pro ? and not all pro terran go 5 rax after FE, for example we saw MKP go 3rax ghost academy vs squirtle in GSL
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
You still need units to hold an all-in. Bunkers don't attack on their own
Are you trying to say that he had no units? All his bunkers were full and he even had spare units. Even a third bunker was on its way. If you want to counter argue something, atleast try properly.
You must be new here, so here's a tip; refrain from arguing and complaining about balance in LR threads.
What does this even have to do with balance. Some people here really have problems comprehending other people´s posts. Here´s a tip: if you didnt understand what you just read, dont bother.
On May 28 2011 11:16 Drazerk wrote: Game Two is about to Begin on Typhon peaks
DDE vs Squirtle
Squirtle is 1-0 up in the series
Game two is now starting
DDE is positioned in the bottom right
While Squirtle is located at the Top right corner
3:00
Expansion is starting for Squirtle Followed by a gateway
4:30
Expansion is going up for DDE while pushing across the map with 1 marauder with concussive shells, 1 marine and one scv
Squirtle is up to 3 gates
5:30
DDE kills 5 probes with his push only losing the marauder and scv
Squirtle is getting his Robo while DDE is getting stim and landing his Command centre
9:00
Squirtle is getting a forge
stim and combat shield just are about to finish for DDE
10:00
DDE tries to push up the natural of Squirtle but sees a high sentry count and retreats starting his ghost academy
13:00
Charge is starting now for Squirtle as his third base and Storm finish
Ghosts are being produced for DDE
14:30
DDE engages getting some good EMPs but sentries and HTs are uneffected with a good wall off with forcefields he storms the army of DDE which evaporates
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
You still need units to hold an all-in. Bunkers don't attack on their own
Are you trying to say that he had no units? All his bunkers were full and he even had spare units. Even a third bunker was on its way. If you want to counter argue something, atleast try properly.
4 gates > 2 rax
if you watch any pro terran, they make like 5 rax if they fe
so you are saying dde is not pro ? and not all pro terran go 5 rax after FE, for example we saw MKP go 3rax ghost academy vs squirtle in GSL
he could be "pro" (makes money), but i only consider him a high level player, not a top player (which is what i meant).
3 rax ghost academy is like an absolute counter lol, i was just giving an example. that game showed what happens if you tech too fast and get greedy. imagine if it was 4 rax stim vs 2 gates, it would be a rollover
On May 28 2011 11:16 Drazerk wrote: Game Two is about to Begin on Typhon peaks
DDE vs Squirtle
Squirtle is 1-0 up in the series
Game two is now starting
DDE is positioned in the bottom right
While Squirtle is located at the Top right corner
3:00
Expansion is starting for Squirtle Followed by a gateway
4:30
Expansion is going up for DDE while pushing across the map with 1 marauder with concussive shells, 1 marine and one scv
Squirtle is up to 3 gates
5:30
DDE kills 5 probes with his push only losing the marauder and scv
Squirtle is getting his Robo while DDE is getting stim and landing his Command centre
9:00
Squirtle is getting a forge
stim and combat shield just are about to finish for DDE
10:00
DDE tries to push up the natural of Squirtle but sees a high sentry count and retreats starting his ghost academy
13:00
Charge is starting now for Squirtle as his third base and Storm finish
Ghosts are being produced for DDE
14:30
DDE engages getting some good EMPs but sentries and HTs are uneffected with a good wall off with forcefields he storms the army of DDE which evaporates
16:00
Colossus is now starting for Squirtle
Nuke in production for DDE
18:00
Squirtle looks to move out as a planetary fortress is made at the Third of DDE
Good EMPs force squirtle to move back but thermal lance is finishing
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
You still need units to hold an all-in. Bunkers don't attack on their own
Are you trying to say that he had no units? All his bunkers were full and he even had spare units. Even a third bunker was on its way. If you want to counter argue something, atleast try properly.
You must be new here, so here's a tip; refrain from arguing and complaining about balance in LR threads.
What does this even have to do with balance. Some people here really have problems comprehending other people´s posts. Here´s a tip: if you didnt understand what you just read, dont bother.
You said "forcefields make no sense". I'm done talking to you.
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
You still need units to hold an all-in. Bunkers don't attack on their own
Are you trying to say that he had no units? All his bunkers were full and he even had spare units. Even a third bunker was on its way. If you want to counter argue something, atleast try properly.
He didn't have enough units due his decision to make an idle factory/starport. I wasn't saying that he literally had no units, but clearly not enough to hold that attack.
If you were trying to say that, why do you bring up that bunkers dont shoot by themselves? Id really like to hear an answer to that.
Expansion is starting for Squirtle Followed by a gateway
4:30
Expansion is going up for DDE while pushing across the map with 1 marauder with concussive shells, 1 marine and one scv
Squirtle is up to 3 gates
5:30
DDE kills 5 probes with his push only losing the marauder and scv
Squirtle is getting his Robo while DDE is getting stim and landing his Command centre
9:00
Squirtle is getting a forge
stim and combat shield just are about to finish for DDE
10:00
DDE tries to push up the natural of Squirtle but sees a high sentry count and retreats starting his ghost academy
13:00
Charge is starting now for Squirtle as his third base and Storm finish
Ghosts are being produced for DDE
14:30
DDE engages getting some good EMPs but sentries and HTs are uneffected with a good wall off with forcefields he storms the army of DDE which evaporates
16:00
Colossus is now starting for Squirtle
Nuke in production for DDE
18:00
Squirtle looks to move out as a planetary fortress is made at the Third of DDE
Good EMPs force squirtle to move back but thermal lance is finishing
19:30
Squirtle attacks the natural of DDE killing his forces
Is it just me or does it seem like mr. bitter has a little deep hatred for protoss It honestly all came down to that initial storm. If the EMPS went off on the templars and not the sentries, that battle and game would've looked waaaaaay different
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
You still need units to hold an all-in. Bunkers don't attack on their own
Are you trying to say that he had no units? All his bunkers were full and he even had spare units. Even a third bunker was on its way. If you want to counter argue something, atleast try properly.
4 gates > 2 rax
if you watch any pro terran, they make like 5 rax if they fe
so you are saying dde is not pro ? and not all pro terran go 5 rax after FE, for example we saw MKP go 3rax ghost academy vs squirtle in GSL
And MKP was doing a completely different build for a completely different reason on a different map.
On May 28 2011 11:30 Eternalmisfit wrote: That is some smart play from Squirtle: baiting those EMPs on his sentries and rest of the army and then bringing the HTs from behind.
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
You still need units to hold an all-in. Bunkers don't attack on their own
Are you trying to say that he had no units? All his bunkers were full and he even had spare units. Even a third bunker was on its way. If you want to counter argue something, atleast try properly.
He didn't have enough units due his decision to make an idle factory/starport. I wasn't saying that he literally had no units, but clearly not enough to hold that attack.
If you were trying to say that, why do you bring up that bunkers dont shoot by themselves? Id really like to hear an answer to that.
He lost that game when he went for such a greedy play, should really be as simple as that...
On May 28 2011 11:30 ffadicted wrote: Is it just me or does it seem like mr. bitter has a little deep hatred for protoss It honestly all came down to that initial storm. If the EMPS went off on the templars and not the sentries, that battle and game would've looked waaaaaay different
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
You still need units to hold an all-in. Bunkers don't attack on their own
Are you trying to say that he had no units? All his bunkers were full and he even had spare units. Even a third bunker was on its way. If you want to counter argue something, atleast try properly.
You must be new here, so here's a tip; refrain from arguing and complaining about balance in LR threads.
What does this even have to do with balance. Some people here really have problems comprehending other people´s posts. Here´s a tip: if you didnt understand what you just read, dont bother.
With your aggressive attitude, I doubt you'll last too long at TL.
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
You still need units to hold an all-in. Bunkers don't attack on their own
Are you trying to say that he had no units? All his bunkers were full and he even had spare units. Even a third bunker was on its way. If you want to counter argue something, atleast try properly.
You must be new here, so here's a tip; refrain from arguing and complaining about balance in LR threads.
What does this even have to do with balance. Some people here really have problems comprehending other people´s posts. Here´s a tip: if you didnt understand what you just read, dont bother.
You said "forcefields make no sense". I'm done talking to you.
I didnt know that "doesnt make any sense" equals to "thats imbalanced". Thanks for clearing it up buddy.
Im referring to the fact, that many posts here were like "he held it, he has bunkers up, squirtle is done for", (it looked that way for a long period of time), and then suddenly he loses and everyone is like "??? didnt see that coming". That didnt make any sense and the posts reflect that.
On May 28 2011 11:30 Shellshock1122 wrote: Those storms just made that game so one sided. Nice play by squirtle. 3/3 on liquibets :B GOGO KawaiiRice!
3/3 too. I have Moonglade and Strelok.... Kinda regretting picking Moonglade now tho because come to think of it he hasn't really won much lately has he?
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
You still need units to hold an all-in. Bunkers don't attack on their own
Are you trying to say that he had no units? All his bunkers were full and he even had spare units. Even a third bunker was on its way. If you want to counter argue something, atleast try properly.
He didn't have enough units due his decision to make an idle factory/starport. I wasn't saying that he literally had no units, but clearly not enough to hold that attack.
If you were trying to say that, why do you bring up that bunkers dont shoot by themselves? Id really like to hear an answer to that.
I thought the sarcasm was apparent. But I'm not going sidetrack this LR anymore.
I'm still kind of horny over those squirtle storms
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
You still need units to hold an all-in. Bunkers don't attack on their own
Are you trying to say that he had no units? All his bunkers were full and he even had spare units. Even a third bunker was on its way. If you want to counter argue something, atleast try properly.
He didn't have enough units due his decision to make an idle factory/starport. I wasn't saying that he literally had no units, but clearly not enough to hold that attack.
If you were trying to say that, why do you bring up that bunkers dont shoot by themselves? Id really like to hear an answer to that.
He lost that game when he went for such a greedy play, should really be as simple as that...
fe = greedy play? if played properly it can be fine..squirtle just 1 gate fe'd before he even threw down a cyber core and won handily.
squirtle is just the better player..cut and dried plain and simple outplayed in both games.
On May 28 2011 11:30 Shellshock1122 wrote: Those storms just made that game so one sided. Nice play by squirtle. 3/3 on liquibets :B GOGO KawaiiRice!
3/3 too. I have Moonglade and Strelok.... Kinda regretting picking Moonglade now tho because come to think of it he hasn't really won much lately has he?
Yea... but KawaiiRice has a fairly poor record in NASL, I believe. He has been playing well in other things like WCG and EG Master's cup, so I have faith in him.
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
You still need units to hold an all-in. Bunkers don't attack on their own
Are you trying to say that he had no units? All his bunkers were full and he even had spare units. Even a third bunker was on its way. If you want to counter argue something, atleast try properly.
He didn't have enough units due his decision to make an idle factory/starport. I wasn't saying that he literally had no units, but clearly not enough to hold that attack.
If you were trying to say that, why do you bring up that bunkers dont shoot by themselves? Id really like to hear an answer to that.
He lost that game when he went for such a greedy play, should really be as simple as that...
fe = greedy play? if played properly it can be fine..squirtle just 1 gate fe'd before he even threw down a cyber core and won handily.
squirtle is just the better player..cut and dried plain and simple outplayed in both games.
1rax FE with only 2rax to make units is extremely greedy bro
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
You still need units to hold an all-in. Bunkers don't attack on their own
Are you trying to say that he had no units? All his bunkers were full and he even had spare units. Even a third bunker was on its way. If you want to counter argue something, atleast try properly.
He didn't have enough units due his decision to make an idle factory/starport. I wasn't saying that he literally had no units, but clearly not enough to hold that attack.
If you were trying to say that, why do you bring up that bunkers dont shoot by themselves? Id really like to hear an answer to that.
He lost that game when he went for such a greedy play, should really be as simple as that...
fe = greedy play? if played properly it can be fine..squirtle just 1 gate fe'd before he even threw down a cyber core and won handily.
squirtle is just the better player..cut and dried plain and simple outplayed in both games.
LOL yes fe is actually greedy. teching straight to starport after fe is on another level
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
You still need units to hold an all-in. Bunkers don't attack on their own
Are you trying to say that he had no units? All his bunkers were full and he even had spare units. Even a third bunker was on its way. If you want to counter argue something, atleast try properly.
He didn't have enough units due his decision to make an idle factory/starport. I wasn't saying that he literally had no units, but clearly not enough to hold that attack.
If you were trying to say that, why do you bring up that bunkers dont shoot by themselves? Id really like to hear an answer to that.
He lost that game when he went for such a greedy play, should really be as simple as that...
fe = greedy play? if played properly it can be fine..squirtle just 1 gate fe'd before he even threw down a cyber core and won handily.
squirtle is just the better player..cut and dried plain and simple outplayed in both games.
I think the point most people are trying to make is that fe into tech is just a tad bit too greedy to handle a one base all-in.
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
You still need units to hold an all-in. Bunkers don't attack on their own
Are you trying to say that he had no units? All his bunkers were full and he even had spare units. Even a third bunker was on its way. If you want to counter argue something, atleast try properly.
You must be new here, so here's a tip; refrain from arguing and complaining about balance in LR threads.
What does this even have to do with balance. Some people here really have problems comprehending other people´s posts. Here´s a tip: if you didnt understand what you just read, dont bother.
You said "forcefields make no sense". I'm done talking to you.
I didnt know that "doesnt make any sense" equals to "thats imbalanced". Thanks for clearing it up buddy.
the original post crys of balance whine.
"i cant comprehend it" "stupid all in, cant be scouted" "dde senses it and counters it and still loses" "ff makes no sense"
On May 28 2011 11:30 Shellshock1122 wrote: Those storms just made that game so one sided. Nice play by squirtle. 3/3 on liquibets :B GOGO KawaiiRice!
3/3 too. I have Moonglade and Strelok.... Kinda regretting picking Moonglade now tho because come to think of it he hasn't really won much lately has he?
Yea... but KawaiiRice has a fairly poor record in NASL, I believe. He has been playing well in other things like WCG and EG Master's cup, so I have faith in him.
Moonglade is 2-4, Kawaii is 1-5, so neither have really had a stellar NASL showing.
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
You still need units to hold an all-in. Bunkers don't attack on their own
Are you trying to say that he had no units? All his bunkers were full and he even had spare units. Even a third bunker was on its way. If you want to counter argue something, atleast try properly.
He didn't have enough units due his decision to make an idle factory/starport. I wasn't saying that he literally had no units, but clearly not enough to hold that attack.
If you were trying to say that, why do you bring up that bunkers dont shoot by themselves? Id really like to hear an answer to that.
He lost that game when he went for such a greedy play, should really be as simple as that...
fe = greedy play? if played properly it can be fine..squirtle just 1 gate fe'd before he even threw down a cyber core and won handily.
squirtle is just the better player..cut and dried plain and simple outplayed in both games.
Not just FEing, but making 2 tech buildings that do nothing when pressured apparently (factory > starport) is indeed rather greedy play. He could FE and transition into more racks first for example.
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
You still need units to hold an all-in. Bunkers don't attack on their own
Are you trying to say that he had no units? All his bunkers were full and he even had spare units. Even a third bunker was on its way. If you want to counter argue something, atleast try properly.
He didn't have enough units due his decision to make an idle factory/starport. I wasn't saying that he literally had no units, but clearly not enough to hold that attack.
If you were trying to say that, why do you bring up that bunkers dont shoot by themselves? Id really like to hear an answer to that.
He lost that game when he went for such a greedy play, should really be as simple as that...
fe = greedy play? if played properly it can be fine..squirtle just 1 gate fe'd before he even threw down a cyber core and won handily.
squirtle is just the better player..cut and dried plain and simple outplayed in both games.
Not by itself, no, but when you tech up at the same time and don't have the structures to make units to defend an attack I think it's considered greedy...
On May 28 2011 11:19 gh0un wrote: What is this even, i cant even start to comprehend it. Squirtle goes for a stupid allin that DDE cannot really scout, DDE however senses that it is coming, does build the bunkers, and still loses. It doesnt make any sense. Forcefields make no sense.
You still need units to hold an all-in. Bunkers don't attack on their own
Are you trying to say that he had no units? All his bunkers were full and he even had spare units. Even a third bunker was on its way. If you want to counter argue something, atleast try properly.
He didn't have enough units due his decision to make an idle factory/starport. I wasn't saying that he literally had no units, but clearly not enough to hold that attack.
If you were trying to say that, why do you bring up that bunkers dont shoot by themselves? Id really like to hear an answer to that.
He lost that game when he went for such a greedy play, should really be as simple as that...
fe = greedy play? if played properly it can be fine..squirtle just 1 gate fe'd before he even threw down a cyber core and won handily.
squirtle is just the better player..cut and dried plain and simple outplayed in both games.
LOL yes fe is actually greedy. teching straight to starport after fe is on another level
1 rax FE is not greedy...however if it was 15cc/nexus, thats greedy imo
Was Squirtle the guy who got pwned by marine king? Wow, the difference in skill calibers is just huge. I don't think Terran scouted the high Templar. Regardless it is impossible to actually emp Templar before the engagement if pro toss controls correctly. EMP sentries yes, but not Templar. Just have Templar at the back and storm when Terran stims and commits. Terran has to emp or snipe Templar mid battle which is harder.
On May 28 2011 11:43 Techno wrote: Mr Bitters said that MoonGlade was "all in" but how all in was it? It was simply building an army at a time where IdrA wouldn't.
Any attack at all is being considered allin nowadays, i wouldnt put too much thought into it. The term is being plenty misused.
On May 28 2011 11:43 Techno wrote: Mr Bitters said that MoonGlade was "all in" but how all in was it? It was simply building an army at a time where IdrA wouldn't.
Ignore it, it's a stupid term incorrectly used to describe any time at which Zerg shifts from drone commitment to unit commitment. Horribly misused in my opinion - it should be unique to Terrans and their SCV pushes (where it originated).
On May 28 2011 11:43 Techno wrote: Mr Bitters said that MoonGlade was "all in" but how all in was it? It was simply building an army at a time where IdrA wouldn't.
Generally people think zerg attacking before the 10 minute mark is all in. It isn't unless they donate all the units.
On May 28 2011 11:43 Techno wrote: Mr Bitters said that MoonGlade was "all in" but how all in was it? It was simply building an army at a time where IdrA wouldn't.
If seige mode had been done, or there were 2-3 bunkers he would have been super far behind and would have lost the game. Doing an attack like that off of 2 bases (and not expanding to a third) is all in as kawaii would have been up a base which = better economy, army, etc.
On May 28 2011 11:36 1Eris1 wrote: kawaii should easily 2-0. such good tvz
yeah it's really good. you do know he is also 1-5 in NASL right?
Um. He hasn't lost a boX TvZ in macro games in months. Beats guys like Ret, etc He only loses to stupid all ins like this.
I hate those all-ins where you take a 3rd and a macro hatch behind it. And do a round of drones after your first push, and don't reinforce the push and instead wait for more of your forces.
On May 28 2011 11:43 Techno wrote: Mr Bitters said that MoonGlade was "all in" but how all in was it? It was simply building an army at a time where IdrA wouldn't.
It wasn't an all in at all, he built a round of drones and was taking another base.
On May 28 2011 11:44 Deeeno wrote: I wonder how much scarier that would have been if he wasn't floating so many minerals... even after he dropped 2 more hatcheries
I wonder how less scary it would have looked had Kawaii droped some bunkers after seeing the roach ling on the way rather than starting a third CC.
I think terran needs to do a full wall on that map. Roaches killing the rocks is essentially unavoidable, and the open wall frees up the banelings to kill units instead of structures. If zerg had to use banelings to get inside that battle would have ended differently.
On May 28 2011 11:44 Deeeno wrote: I wonder how much scarier that would have been if he wasn't floating so many minerals... even after he dropped 2 more hatcheries
Floating some minerals is quite normal for zergs at that stage if they have a good economy. They just can't really spend it without additional macro hatches.
On May 28 2011 11:43 Techno wrote: Mr Bitters said that MoonGlade was "all in" but how all in was it? It was simply building an army at a time where IdrA wouldn't.
If seige mode had been done, or there were 2-3 bunkers he would have been super far behind and would have lost the game. Doing an attack like that off of 2 bases (and not expanding to a third) is all in as kawaii would have been up a base which = better economy, army, etc.
you need a fucking manual to understand people's definition of all-in noawadays.
that was not an all-in, it was a read, planned and executed attack by moonglade. he knew that he committed to blue flame hellions which gave him a window to punish him for those hellions doing absolutely nothing
On May 28 2011 11:44 Deeeno wrote: I wonder how much scarier that would have been if he wasn't floating so many minerals... even after he dropped 2 more hatcheries
I wonder how less scary it would have looked had Kawaii droped some bunkers after seeing the roach ling on the way rather than starting a third CC.
Lol, it would be equal if we're simply basing it off what could have been done. Kawaii with more defense, Glade with more attacking forces. And on and on...
On May 28 2011 11:43 Techno wrote: Mr Bitters said that MoonGlade was "all in" but how all in was it? It was simply building an army at a time where IdrA wouldn't.
If seige mode had been done, or there were 2-3 bunkers he would have been super far behind and would have lost the game. Doing an attack like that off of 2 bases (and not expanding to a third) is all in as kawaii would have been up a base which = better economy, army, etc.
you need a fucking manual to understand people's definition of all-in noawadays.
that was not an all-in, it was a read, planned and executed attack by moonglade. he knew that he committed to blue flame hellions which gave him a window to punish him for those hellions doing absolutely nothing
On May 28 2011 11:43 Techno wrote: Mr Bitters said that MoonGlade was "all in" but how all in was it? It was simply building an army at a time where IdrA wouldn't.
Ignore it, it's a stupid term incorrectly used to describe any time at which Zerg shifts from drone commitment to unit commitment. Horribly misused in my opinion - it should be unique to Terrans and their SCV pushes (where it originated).
Well when on 2 base, it's very hard to distinguish an all-in and a timing. Moonglade obviously had a timing in mind and had to do significant damage or he would've lost the game. All timings are somewat all-in becuz of their low economy, but if they do enough damage, u can easily transition into economy. So the terms are a bit vague.
On May 28 2011 11:43 Techno wrote: Mr Bitters said that MoonGlade was "all in" but how all in was it? It was simply building an army at a time where IdrA wouldn't.
Ignore it, it's a stupid term incorrectly used to describe any time at which Zerg shifts from drone commitment to unit commitment. Horribly misused in my opinion - it should be unique to Terrans and their SCV pushes (where it originated).
I agree wholeheartedly. It often seems like the point where zerg stops pumping drones with every round of larvae is considered the point where they're going "all-in". I long for the day where we no longer have to deal with terms like "all-in", "cheese" and "meta-game" in casts...
Literally, a player isn't "all-in", unless they're bringing harvesters to the attack, as well.
On May 28 2011 11:44 Deeeno wrote: I wonder how much scarier that would have been if he wasn't floating so many minerals... even after he dropped 2 more hatcheries
Floating some minerals is quite normal for zergs at that stage if they have a good economy. They just can't really spend it without additional macro hatches.
Also very valid, I'm mostly just questioning Moonglades macro, as even after he dropped 2 more hatcheries, he was still floating plenty of minerals. It seems to a very common recurring theme in his ZvT.
On May 28 2011 11:43 Techno wrote: Mr Bitters said that MoonGlade was "all in" but how all in was it? It was simply building an army at a time where IdrA wouldn't.
Ignore it, it's a stupid term incorrectly used to describe any time at which Zerg shifts from drone commitment to unit commitment. Horribly misused in my opinion - it should be unique to Terrans and their SCV pushes (where it originated).
I agree wholeheartedly. It often seems like the point where zerg stops pumping drones with every round of larvae is considered the point where they're going "all-in". I long for the day where we no longer have to deal with terms like "all-in", "cheese" and "meta-game" in casts...
Literally, a player isn't "all-in", unless they're bringing harvesters to the attack, as well.
Fine, make your own term then.
It's simply a fact that zerg being aggressive MUST do damage or they get FAR behind because of no drones.
If he mis-judged that attack, and siege mode was finished to shoot the banes, he would of been in a TERRIBLE position.
On May 28 2011 11:36 1Eris1 wrote: kawaii should easily 2-0. such good tvz
yeah it's really good. you do know he is also 1-5 in NASL right?
Um. He hasn't lost a boX TvZ in macro games in months. Beats guys like Ret, etc He only loses to stupid all ins like this.
EVrything you have said in this thread has been completly wrong icluding this post just thinka little before you emberras yourself even further
oh and slush beat kawairice too
Please try to type correctly if you're going to argue with me, otherwise I have no idea what you are saying.
And yeah I said "MACRO" games. Slush lost game 1 in macro game, and then did 2 base busts in the next two games.
You're just making the IdrA argument. In a macro (long term) game they (Kawaii, IdrA, [insert great late-game player] will most likely win if it gets to late game, but if you don't hold 2 base busts it's all for naught. You can't be a good macro player if you don't survive to the late-game. The difference between Kawaii and IdrA besides their race is that IdrA is far better at holding scary pushes than Kawaii, and as a result is a much better player.
On May 28 2011 12:00 ffadicted wrote: All those banes went off on tanks and it almsot didn't matter
These exchanges aren't cost efficient though. He's wasting so much gas that he can't tech. He can't get up broods. And now he has to rebuild a spire too.
On May 28 2011 12:01 Shellshock1122 wrote: basically 50 banelings and he still didnt get all the marines. too many hitting tanks
he was forced to take out the tanks
no LOL he just had to move command his banelings to those marines and kawaiirice would've been absolutely rolled. those tanks werent even sieged until all the units were up next to him and 50 lings and 15 mutas can easily handle those tanks.
Moonglade really needs to work on his macro more. If he did I imagine he would have crushed kawaii this game (he had like 2k minerals/1.2k gas for a long time it seemed like). Was he getting upgrades I didn't see?
Although I was surprised it lasted as long as it did considering Glades ling/bane 2 base failed badly.
On May 28 2011 12:01 Shellshock1122 wrote: basically 50 banelings and he still didnt get all the marines. too many hitting tanks
he was forced to take out the tanks
no LOL he just had to move command his banelings to those marines and kawaiirice would've been absolutely rolled. those tanks werent even sieged until all the units were up next to him and 50 lings and 15 mutas can easily handle those tanks.
horrible macro by moonglade too.
there wasnt that many lings and those tank was about to go siege mode, so he had to take them out or the siege tank would have fired
On May 28 2011 12:04 blade55555 wrote: Moonglade really needs to work on his macro more. If he did I imagine he would have crushed kawaii this game (he had like 2k minerals/1.2k gas for a long time it seemed like). Was he getting upgrades I didn't see?
Although I was surprised it lasted as long as it did considering Glades ling/bane 2 base failed badly.
he was, kinda slow tho kidna like everything of his that game :S but still love him
I don't blae glade for leaving. Had no spire and 3-2 was on the way for bio and what mutas were left wouldn't be able to handle the marines and thors coming out. That being said if kawai rice messed up huge he mighta been able to pull out a win
Should have stayed in the game moonglade. If you were 0-1 you would have stayed, leaving early just beacause you already had another game on the series is wrong. Just let terran attack and you decide if you going to counter or trade. Only after that you should even consider the gg button. Terran army was slow and you had 1.5kmin, still many possibilities.
On May 28 2011 12:06 ropumar wrote: Should have stayed in the game moonglade. If you were 0-1 you would have stayed, leaving early just beacause you already had another game on the series is wrong. Just let terran attack and you decide if you going to counter or trade. Only after that you should even consider the gg button. Terran army was slow and you had 1.5kmin, still many possibilities.
What? He was lightyears behind. There was realy no way for him to win that game.
i have to ask again : why does the spoiler information on page 1 tell taht there was a game between kawaiirice and moonglade on metalopolis as game 1 before the real game 1 ? why is that ? need info
On May 28 2011 12:07 Mailing wrote: I disliked how hyped Bitters made it seem when Moonglade broke the bunker/siege tank contain.
He acted like zerg just won the game, yet he was 110 to kawaiis 115 supply and used all his banes....
making a cast exciting how dare he! people bitch when casters say whats actually going on and over analyze it and call stuff early...but when they act excited and hype up a exciting part of the game people bitch..
On May 28 2011 12:03 Scila wrote: Kawaiirice looks like a vastly superior macro player...Moonglade's only choice is 2 base allinish attacks like game 1.
There's really nothing wrong with being aggressive the way moonglade was, the real problem were some questionable decisions where he over-made units, attacked when he probably shouldn't have, and wasn't efficient enough with his units.
On May 28 2011 12:08 FallDownMarigold wrote: If you have cheap vodka, is it true that you can make it taste way better by running it through coffee filters a couple times?
Britta (spelling?) water filters work. I think you have to do it like 5-10 times but it wont make it like crap to amazing. They did it on mythbusters. A professional Vodka taster was able to rank them all by filtration perfectly
On May 28 2011 12:07 Kotschmonaut wrote: i have to ask again : why does the spoiler information on page 1 tell taht there was a game between kawaiirice and moonglade on metalopolis as game 1 before the real game 1 ? why is that ? need info
i will ask as long until i get an answer, there is seemingly a mistake in the freaking OP. damn
On May 28 2011 12:07 Kotschmonaut wrote: i have to ask again : why does the spoiler information on page 1 tell taht there was a game between kawaiirice and moonglade on metalopolis as game 1 before the real game 1 ? why is that ? need info
i will ask as long as i get an answer, there is seemingly a mistake in the freaking OP. damn
On May 28 2011 12:03 Scila wrote: Kawaiirice looks like a vastly superior macro player...Moonglade's only choice is 2 base allinish attacks like game 1.
There's really nothing wrong with being aggressive the way moonglade was, the real problem were some questionable decisions where he over-made units, attacked when he probably shouldn't have, and wasn't efficient enough with his units.
I hate being critical of pro players, but Moonglade really tends to float alot of money mid-late game TvZ, I'm not as critical over the extremely late hive though, mass muta is pretty decent on a good number of maps, although I think Brood Lords are great on Typon, its more of a stylistic thing either way.
Eitherway I'm rooting for Kawaii, I really like seeing him do well, and that marine micro defending that first buff on Typhon was pretty slick.
On May 28 2011 12:06 ropumar wrote: Should have stayed in the game moonglade. If you were 0-1 you would have stayed, leaving early just beacause you already had another game on the series is wrong. Just let terran attack and you decide if you going to counter or trade. Only after that you should even consider the gg button. Terran army was slow and you had 1.5kmin, still many possibilities.
What? He was lightyears behind. There was realy no way for him to win that game.
No spire, weaker economy, he move commanded a group of mutas over top a group of marines and a thor.... it was well over.....
On May 28 2011 12:07 Kotschmonaut wrote: i have to ask again : why does the spoiler information on page 1 tell taht there was a game between kawaiirice and moonglade on metalopolis as game 1 before the real game 1 ? why is that ? need info
OP has yesterday's map pool listed instead of today's. (For all matchups).
Kawaii honestly has the best marine control of any foreigners, he can literally pull off MKP splits. If only his decision making could be on the same level he'd be a top foreigner.
On May 28 2011 12:18 nvs. wrote: I hate it so much when Zergs just go "ok fuck it lets see if my ball can break the tank-line" without any positioning / reasoning / control behind it.
qft, fuck that was painful to watch. and then to follow it up by losing a hatchery to 3 low life (literally) marines... x.x
at some point, you just wont cut it without infestors against perfect marine micro. damn he played so bad seriously, i could totally puke right now, that pisses me off
Moonglade has like the worst muta control ever. He's also way too liberal with them attacking groups of marines which are way more efficient. He also doesnt harass at all even tho he gets a high count.
On May 28 2011 12:19 1Eris1 wrote: Kawaii honestly has the best marine control of any foreigners, he can literally pull off MKP splits. If only his decision making could be on the same level he'd be a top foreigner.
Glad he won though
I don't think so. His micro is strong. But there are other players like ThorZain that can micro marines just as well.
On May 28 2011 12:19 1Eris1 wrote: Kawaii honestly has the best marine control of any foreigners, he can literally pull off MKP splits. If only his decision making could be on the same level he'd be a top foreigner.
Glad he won though
I agree, quite a few bad decisions from Kawaii.
Moonglades macro seems to have a slipped a bit. If Moonglade is macroing properly Kawaii easily loses that game.
I love it when the casters hit the nail on the head when it comes to why a player is gaining advantage. Kawaii's marine control was impeccable. Both sides threw away leads in that third game, but Kawaii's control in the mid to the end was what put him over the top.
On May 28 2011 12:19 1Eris1 wrote: Kawaii honestly has the best marine control of any foreigners, he can literally pull off MKP splits. If only his decision making could be on the same level he'd be a top foreigner.
Glad he won though
Uh, did you watch the game?
Every single time besides the last time Moonglade was attack commanding the banelings and they were splashing against all the tanks.
The very last time he sent his banelings in 4 different directions on move command which split them up, took them in a circuitous route, and made them easy targets.
On May 28 2011 12:20 Scila wrote: Anybody know how Kawaii splits his marines when the banelings roll in? Does he use Patrol or just right click groups of marines away? or both?
He clicks all his marines away. Watch his stream to check it out It's quite sick.
On May 28 2011 12:19 1Eris1 wrote: Kawaii honestly has the best marine control of any foreigners, he can literally pull off MKP splits. If only his decision making could be on the same level he'd be a top foreigner.
On May 28 2011 12:20 Scila wrote: Anybody know how Kawaii splits his marines when the banelings roll in? Does he use Patrol or just right click groups of marines away? or both?
It looked like it was possible for both. He definitely used patrol splitting when he stimmed and ran away. It looked like he might have used small group moves after he had decent spread.
On May 28 2011 12:19 1Eris1 wrote: Kawaii honestly has the best marine control of any foreigners, he can literally pull off MKP splits. If only his decision making could be on the same level he'd be a top foreigner.
Glad he won though
lol, compare Kawaii's marine splits with this, it's like night and day.
On May 28 2011 12:19 1Eris1 wrote: Kawaii honestly has the best marine control of any foreigners, he can literally pull off MKP splits. If only his decision making could be on the same level he'd be a top foreigner.
Glad he won though
I don't think so. His micro is strong. But there are other players like ThorZain that can micro marines just as well.
Really, I don't believe it? Link me to a MKP marine split from Thorzain or anybody, I've never seen any other foreigner (except Jinro) pull off amazing splits. Kawaii's micro is out of this world. He just lacks expierence in decision making
On May 28 2011 12:20 snow2.0 wrote: I dont get why we've not seen any muta harassment in the TvZs today; their mobility was never applied.
thats been really bothering me too...blasting banes on tanks is understandable i guess...but not using your mutas other then in fights >.< there are other builds out there thats easier to do if your multitasking isnt up to par yet
On May 28 2011 12:19 1Eris1 wrote: Kawaii honestly has the best marine control of any foreigners, he can literally pull off MKP splits. If only his decision making could be on the same level he'd be a top foreigner.
On May 28 2011 12:19 1Eris1 wrote: Kawaii honestly has the best marine control of any foreigners, he can literally pull off MKP splits. If only his decision making could be on the same level he'd be a top foreigner.
On May 28 2011 12:19 1Eris1 wrote: Kawaii honestly has the best marine control of any foreigners, he can literally pull off MKP splits. If only his decision making could be on the same level he'd be a top foreigner.
On May 28 2011 12:19 1Eris1 wrote: Kawaii honestly has the best marine control of any foreigners, he can literally pull off MKP splits. If only his decision making could be on the same level he'd be a top foreigner.
On May 28 2011 12:19 1Eris1 wrote: Kawaii honestly has the best marine control of any foreigners, he can literally pull off MKP splits. If only his decision making could be on the same level he'd be a top foreigner.
Hmmm, that is pretty amazing. Now I want to see a contest between the two. Throw in MVP and MKP as well. See how many banelings they can kill with X amount of marines.
On May 28 2011 12:19 1Eris1 wrote: Kawaii honestly has the best marine control of any foreigners, he can literally pull off MKP splits. If only his decision making could be on the same level he'd be a top foreigner.
Glad he won though
I don't think so. His micro is strong. But there are other players like ThorZain that can micro marines just as well.
Really, I don't believe it? Link me to a MKP marine split from Thorzain or anybody, I've never seen any other foreigner (except Jinro) pull off amazing splits. Kawaii's micro is out of this world. He just lacks expierence in decision making
On May 28 2011 12:19 1Eris1 wrote: Kawaii honestly has the best marine control of any foreigners, he can literally pull off MKP splits. If only his decision making could be on the same level he'd be a top foreigner.
On May 28 2011 12:24 FallDownMarigold wrote: The thing that is sick about MKP marine splits is that he clicks individual marines... According to an interview with MKP himself. What a stud.
On May 28 2011 12:19 1Eris1 wrote: Kawaii honestly has the best marine control of any foreigners, he can literally pull off MKP splits. If only his decision making could be on the same level he'd be a top foreigner.
Glad he won though
I don't think so. His micro is strong. But there are other players like ThorZain that can micro marines just as well.
Really, I don't believe it? Link me to a MKP marine split from Thorzain or anybody, I've never seen any other foreigner (except Jinro) pull off amazing splits. Kawaii's micro is out of this world. He just lacks expierence in decision making
I think you need to check out a European Terran named Happy.
On May 28 2011 12:19 1Eris1 wrote: Kawaii honestly has the best marine control of any foreigners, he can literally pull off MKP splits. If only his decision making could be on the same level he'd be a top foreigner.
On May 28 2011 12:19 1Eris1 wrote: Kawaii honestly has the best marine control of any foreigners, he can literally pull off MKP splits. If only his decision making could be on the same level he'd be a top foreigner.
On May 28 2011 12:24 FallDownMarigold wrote: The thing that is sick about MKP marine splits is that he clicks individual marines... According to an interview with MKP himself. What a stud.
All high level terrans do that
Lmao. Name 5 other than MKP that do it by clicking INDIVIDUAL marines. As you can see in the happy clip, it's groups of marines. Hell, watch SeleCT's stream, he boxes little groups too.
On May 28 2011 12:26 mathsucks wrote: Be ready to plug your ears in case they put the wrong clip ahead of the haypro/strelok game and spoil it reviewing everything! :D
That's what I'm thinking and about to laugh my ass off if that's the case.
On May 28 2011 12:26 mathsucks wrote: Be ready to plug your ears in case they put the wrong clip ahead of the haypro/strelok game and spoil it reviewing everything! :D
That's what I'm thinking and about to laugh my ass off if that's the case.
On May 28 2011 12:19 1Eris1 wrote: Kawaii honestly has the best marine control of any foreigners, he can literally pull off MKP splits. If only his decision making could be on the same level he'd be a top foreigner.
Hmmm, that is pretty amazing. Now I want to see a contest between the two. Throw in MVP and MKP as well. See how many banelings they can kill with X amount of marines.
Wait until the top bw-terrans start playing sc2. Then you'll see marine micro.
On May 28 2011 12:24 FallDownMarigold wrote: The thing that is sick about MKP marine splits is that he clicks individual marines... According to an interview with MKP himself. What a stud.
All high level terrans do that
Lmao. Name 5 other than MKP that do it by clicking INDIVIDUAL marines. As you can see in the happy clip, it's groups of marines. Hell, watch SeleCT's stream, he boxes little groups too.
Eagerly awaiting your list/evidence
Really? You think he's gonna split 20+ marines individually during a huge battle?
One thing I will say about Gretorp is, even though I'm sure he's aware of all the criticism leveled against him, some of it constructive and some of it not so constructive, he still keeps trucking. Good for him.
But he's still bad and he still should be replaced, IMO.
They acted like they saw haypro vs strelok, so I'm assuming the game was played. Are they going to broadcast it or will they just add it on tomorrow maybe to make up for this?
Shut up about Strelok/Haypro, I have the stream muted and am checking it every few seconds to see if a game starts. No need to spoil it here in text til after we know whether or not it'll be aired...
On May 28 2011 12:31 FallDownMarigold wrote: Shut up about Strelok/Haypro, I have the stream muted and am checking it every few seconds to see if a game starts. No need to spoil it here in text til after we know whether or not it'll be aired...
Well, you can turn it back on, because it's over...just to see if they randomly clip it at the end...?
On May 28 2011 12:19 1Eris1 wrote: Kawaii honestly has the best marine control of any foreigners, he can literally pull off MKP splits. If only his decision making could be on the same level he'd be a top foreigner.
Hmmm, that is pretty amazing. Now I want to see a contest between the two. Throw in MVP and MKP as well. See how many banelings they can kill with X amount of marines.
Wait until the top bw-terrans start playing sc2. Then you'll see marine micro.
On May 28 2011 12:31 FallDownMarigold wrote: Shut up about Strelok/Haypro, I have the stream muted and am checking it every few seconds to see if a game starts. No need to spoil it here in text til after we know whether or not it'll be aired...
There was no spoilers jesus spoilers serious business.
On May 28 2011 12:30 Hollis wrote: One thing I will say about Gretorp is, even though I'm sure he's aware of all the criticism leveled against him, some of it constructive and some of it not so constructive, he still keeps trucking. Good for him.
But he's still bad and he still should be replaced, IMO.
On May 28 2011 12:27 Shellshock1122 wrote: Remember when squirtle made protoss look broken vs mkp? + Show Spoiler +
Oh wait... this is awkward..
Then again MKP did repeat one specific build 200 times just for his Squirtle matchup.. heh. Gotta give MKP the credit there
It was MVP. MKP was actually one of the few players to actually beat Squirtle in TvP when Squirtle was on his PvT tear.
? MKP just beat Squirtle with a build that, according to his interview, he practiced 200 times just for that round of 64. Not sure what you're talkin about sry
uhhhh....what happened to haypro vs strelok? did haypro rape strelok so badly that it couldnt be show for fear of viewers considering strelok to be skilless?
I assume they'll be like oh crap we messed up yesterday guys and just add it in on the end of tomorrows games or possibly at the beginning. They've added in games before like when Fenix and Morrow had to be rescheduled.
I haven't been following the times at all, but is it possible that they need to end the show earlier for some reason / this show ran longer than the average show?
On May 28 2011 12:30 Hollis wrote: One thing I will say about Gretorp is, even though I'm sure he's aware of all the criticism leveled against him, some of it constructive and some of it not so constructive, he still keeps trucking. Good for him.
But he's still bad and he still should be replaced, IMO.
Sorry I just don't see what's so bad about him.
same, the haters just bash him with no explaination.
On May 28 2011 12:19 1Eris1 wrote: Kawaii honestly has the best marine control of any foreigners, he can literally pull off MKP splits. If only his decision making could be on the same level he'd be a top foreigner.
Hmmm, that is pretty amazing. Now I want to see a contest between the two. Throw in MVP and MKP as well. See how many banelings they can kill with X amount of marines.
Wait until the top bw-terrans start playing sc2. Then you'll see marine micro.
On May 28 2011 12:19 1Eris1 wrote: Kawaii honestly has the best marine control of any foreigners, he can literally pull off MKP splits. If only his decision making could be on the same level he'd be a top foreigner.
Hmmm, that is pretty amazing. Now I want to see a contest between the two. Throw in MVP and MKP as well. See how many banelings they can kill with X amount of marines.
Wait until the top bw-terrans start playing sc2. Then you'll see marine micro.
On May 28 2011 12:33 Dexington wrote: We all know Haypro is the worse player and likely lost, probably in spectacular fashion.
Haypro is awesome, what is it with people who just assume he is terrible without much to back it up. HayprO has the ability to be the best zerg in the world and I for one believe him to be able to win the next MLG, HayprO is the reason I tuned in.
On May 28 2011 12:19 1Eris1 wrote: Kawaii honestly has the best marine control of any foreigners, he can literally pull off MKP splits. If only his decision making could be on the same level he'd be a top foreigner.
Hmmm, that is pretty amazing. Now I want to see a contest between the two. Throw in MVP and MKP as well. See how many banelings they can kill with X amount of marines.
Wait until the top bw-terrans start playing sc2. Then you'll see marine micro.
On May 28 2011 12:32 unit wrote: uhhhh....what happened to haypro vs strelok? did haypro rape strelok so badly that it couldnt be show for fear of viewers considering strelok to be skilless?
On May 28 2011 12:33 rust.oxide wrote: I haven't been following the times at all, but is it possible that they need to end the show earlier for some reason / this show ran longer than the average show?
Highly doubtful. They've gone till 1:00 AM EST before, don't see why they would start now. Just seems like someone screwed up the video playlist. Heh
On May 28 2011 12:30 Hollis wrote: One thing I will say about Gretorp is, even though I'm sure he's aware of all the criticism leveled against him, some of it constructive and some of it not so constructive, he still keeps trucking. Good for him.
But he's still bad and he still should be replaced, IMO.
Sorry I just don't see what's so bad about him.
same, the haters just bash him with no explaination.
His constant mispronunciation of words; his unfunny jokes; his repetitious vocabulary; etc.
I love NASL and I want it to be the best it can be. It isn't the best it can be with Gretorp at the helm. He tries hard but his lack of vocab + malapropisms makes for a painful, painful listening experience.
The North American Star league was established to foster the prominence of esports and professional Starcraft 2 play in North America through highly visible organized and invigorating competition.
Not only are we determined to bring you the best experience we can, we are committed to building a lasting relationship with our audience and supporting players become the best they can be.
We hope you appreciate the hard work we have put in so far and know that we will never stop fighting to be the best Starcraft tournament in the world.
Hard to read this without laughing when things like this happen.
On May 28 2011 12:30 Hollis wrote: One thing I will say about Gretorp is, even though I'm sure he's aware of all the criticism leveled against him, some of it constructive and some of it not so constructive, he still keeps trucking. Good for him.
But he's still bad and he still should be replaced, IMO.
Sorry I just don't see what's so bad about him.
same, the haters just bash him with no explaination.
His constant mispronunciation of words; his unfunny jokes; his repetitious vocabulary; etc.
I love NASL and I want it to be the best it can be. It isn't the best it can be with Gretorp at the helm. He tries hard but his lack of vocab + malapropisms makes for a painful, painful listening experience.
He's analytical. He has great knowledge of the game. He's a great straight man to iNcontroL's funny man. He does a better job than a lot of other casters can. Him and iNcontroL together are funnier and a better casting team than anyone but Tastosis in my opinion, and even that can be argued.
According to the broadcaster on the NASL chat, Haypro was sick and Strelok got a walkover over him. However, given what Gretorp and MrBitter said, I am totally confused.
On May 28 2011 12:30 Hollis wrote: One thing I will say about Gretorp is, even though I'm sure he's aware of all the criticism leveled against him, some of it constructive and some of it not so constructive, he still keeps trucking. Good for him.
But he's still bad and he still should be replaced, IMO.
Sorry I just don't see what's so bad about him.
same, the haters just bash him with no explaination.
His constant mispronunciation of words; his unfunny jokes; his repetitious vocabulary; etc.
I love NASL and I want it to be the best it can be. It isn't the best it can be with Gretorp at the helm. He tries hard but his lack of vocab + malapropisms makes for a painful, painful listening experience.
I don't mind Gretorp's humor (I think him and Mr. Bitter make a great team), but I do agree that his vocal skills do need more work if he's aspiring to be a top-tier commentator. He needs more clarity and confidence in his speaking; he has the excitement and passion, he just needs to refine his speech.
On May 28 2011 12:33 Dexington wrote: We all know Haypro is the worse player and likely lost, probably in spectacular fashion.
Haypro is awesome, what is it with people who just assume he is terrible without much to back it up. HayprO has the ability to be the best zerg in the world and I for one believe him to be able to win the next MLG, HayprO is the reason I tuned in.
Want something to back it up? What about the 2-0 loss to rsvp in ipl2q3 where he played like a bronze noob?
Gretorp indeed has a problem with his casting. He cannot even follow what he is saying sometimes. "oh wait... Squirtle... oh no, right... Dde" and like this a lot of times.
The big reason for this, I suppose, is the fact that he cannot describe a simple fact and a situation in a simple way. He has to take his 5 minutes to describe a simple event, and along the way, he is getting confused where he started about which player and what he is even trying to say.
It's not even his English, a lot of foreign casters are more articulate.
On May 28 2011 12:30 Hollis wrote: One thing I will say about Gretorp is, even though I'm sure he's aware of all the criticism leveled against him, some of it constructive and some of it not so constructive, he still keeps trucking. Good for him.
But he's still bad and he still should be replaced, IMO.
Sorry I just don't see what's so bad about him.
same, the haters just bash him with no explaination.
His constant mispronunciation of words; his unfunny jokes; his repetitious vocabulary; etc.
I love NASL and I want it to be the best it can be. It isn't the best it can be with Gretorp at the helm. He tries hard but his lack of vocab + malapropisms makes for a painful, painful listening experience.
He's analytical. He has great knowledge of the game. He's a great straight man to iNcontroL's funny man. He does a better job than a lot of other casters can. Him and iNcontroL together are funnier and a better casting team than anyone but Tastosis in my opinion, and even that can be argued.
Myself and many, many others would disagree with you. I would argue that Gretorp has been the most controversial element of NASL so far. That does not bode well for the future of his casting.
According to the broadcaster on the NASL chat, Haypro was sick and Strelok got a walkover over him. However, given what Gretorp and MrBitter said, I am totally confused.
They probably recorded their studio segment while trying to get confirmation from Haypro. Since the post-game was so ambiguous, either player could have won and both casters would have still been correct. When Haypro couldn't show, they couldn't really edit out their vague comments, and left it in.
According to the broadcaster on the NASL chat, Haypro was sick and Strelok got a walkover over him. However, given what Gretorp and MrBitter said, I am totally confused.
... Maybe this whole Haypro-Strelok thing is performance art?
Because not only did they not show up the match, in the end of day "Summary" of matches, they didn't say anything at all about the actual match, as if it they didn't even watch it. Just a bunch of vague generalities about the players. Odd. Possibly the match got delayed and they planned on adding in the recording later but it didn't get scheduled in time for airing tonight.
On May 28 2011 12:30 Hollis wrote: One thing I will say about Gretorp is, even though I'm sure he's aware of all the criticism leveled against him, some of it constructive and some of it not so constructive, he still keeps trucking. Good for him.
But he's still bad and he still should be replaced, IMO.
Sorry I just don't see what's so bad about him.
same, the haters just bash him with no explaination.
His constant mispronunciation of words; his unfunny jokes; his repetitious vocabulary; etc.
I love NASL and I want it to be the best it can be. It isn't the best it can be with Gretorp at the helm. He tries hard but his lack of vocab + malapropisms makes for a painful, painful listening experience.
He's analytical. He has great knowledge of the game. He's a great straight man to iNcontroL's funny man. He does a better job than a lot of other casters can. Him and iNcontroL together are funnier and a better casting team than anyone but Tastosis in my opinion, and even that can be argued.
Gretorp always looks sleepy. He makes me feel sleepy.
According to the broadcaster on the NASL chat, Haypro was sick and Strelok got a walkover over him. However, given what Gretorp and MrBitter said, I am totally confused.
On May 28 2011 12:30 Hollis wrote: One thing I will say about Gretorp is, even though I'm sure he's aware of all the criticism leveled against him, some of it constructive and some of it not so constructive, he still keeps trucking. Good for him.
But he's still bad and he still should be replaced, IMO.
Sorry I just don't see what's so bad about him.
same, the haters just bash him with no explaination.
His constant mispronunciation of words; his unfunny jokes; his repetitious vocabulary; etc.
I love NASL and I want it to be the best it can be. It isn't the best it can be with Gretorp at the helm. He tries hard but his lack of vocab + malapropisms makes for a painful, painful listening experience.
He's analytical. He has great knowledge of the game. He's a great straight man to iNcontroL's funny man. He does a better job than a lot of other casters can. Him and iNcontroL together are funnier and a better casting team than anyone but Tastosis in my opinion, and even that can be argued.
He's analytical but takes so long explaining everything because he cant form the words. His analysis other then terran is usually wrong. He directly dissagrees with what his co caster says(thats suppose to be a big no no). I dont think he needs to be replaced but to say top 2 casting team...nah
haha crazy good day ^_^ Just finished my school graduation exams 2 days ago and I am in SC2 lala land! 28 hours SC2 since the last time I slept GSL, gaming, NASL EU, gaming, streams, SotG vods, Day 9 vods, gaming, NASL US. Im on a roll here I guess I will watch GSL and than finally go to bed ^^
On May 28 2011 12:30 Hollis wrote: One thing I will say about Gretorp is, even though I'm sure he's aware of all the criticism leveled against him, some of it constructive and some of it not so constructive, he still keeps trucking. Good for him.
But he's still bad and he still should be replaced, IMO.
Sorry I just don't see what's so bad about him.
same, the haters just bash him with no explaination.
His constant mispronunciation of words; his unfunny jokes; his repetitious vocabulary; etc.
I love NASL and I want it to be the best it can be. It isn't the best it can be with Gretorp at the helm. He tries hard but his lack of vocab + malapropisms makes for a painful, painful listening experience.
He's analytical. He has great knowledge of the game. He's a great straight man to iNcontroL's funny man. He does a better job than a lot of other casters can. Him and iNcontroL together are funnier and a better casting team than anyone but Tastosis in my opinion, and even that can be argued.
Of course it can be argued, opinions about casters are, well, opinions... There generally isn't any objective way of "proving" or showing that a particular caster is good, most of it comes down to personal preference. Personally, I can't stand listening to Incontrol; Gretorp's analysis seems okay, but his English is a little weird -- still, I've enjoyed him with TB and Mr. Bitter. But that's just my opinion -- it doesn't mean anything. People posting in LR threads don't prove anything either. 15,000 people were watching the NASL -- a dozen people on TL saying "Gretorp rules" or "Gretorp sucks" doesn't show anything about the overall opinion of the audience.
Sorry if this sounds aggressive or anything, it's not particularly directed at you, but at the whole "Caster A sucks / No he's awesome" type of debate that's been happening alot recently. Just saying I don't see the point in debating something that comes down to personal preference.
Since the post-game was so ambiguous, either player could have won and both casters would have still been correct.
They should not have even mentioned the game then. It is disingenuous to talk about a series as if it has been played (even without giving any specific info) when in actuality it has not, and it just confuses the viewers in a situation like this.
BTW, I don't hate Gretorp. It's just sometimes awkward to watch him, and it's also sometimes bugging that he cannot coherently talk about the game. However, as said above by dormer, I like him more than Incontrol as a caster.
stop raging bout gretorp, come back to the ridiculousness that nasl has performed tonight. that is not professional at all, im still kinda waiting for the stream to come back alive.
Sorry if this sounds aggressive or anything, it's not particularly directed at you, but at the whole "Caster A sucks / No he's awesome" type of debate that's been happening alot recently. Just saying I don't see the point in debating something that comes down to personal preference.
Enough opinions do actually mean something, why do you think events all over the world try to get Day9 and Tastosis? Because even though some individuals may not like them the vast majority of what the tournament coordinators are seeing is that people like them. If they see a much more divided community over a caster like Gretorp he is less likely to get work in the long run, although there are some weird exceptions like Joe Buck.
I don't hate Gretorp, I just think he's terrible for the NASL. I never going to buy a ticket as long as I keep hearing him on the stream and vods. Even hearing him on the free stream turns watching NASL into a chore.
On May 28 2011 12:50 dabom88 wrote: I don't hate Gretorp, I just think he's terrible for the NASL. I never going to buy a ticket as long as I keep hearing him on the stream and vods.
same here. i thought i was being too anal about gretorp's casting at first, but it seems like a lot of people feel the same way. he is the sole reason i haven't paid for a ticket :\
only reason he's umutable now is because mrbitters has been casting with him.
According to the broadcaster on the NASL chat, Haypro was sick and Strelok got a walkover over him. However, given what Gretorp and MrBitter said, I am totally confused.
On May 28 2011 12:50 dabom88 wrote: I don't hate Gretorp, I just think he's terrible for the NASL. I never going to buy a ticket as long as I keep hearing him on the stream and vods.
same here. i thought i was being too anal about gretorp's casting at first, but it seems like a lot of people feel the same way. he is the sole reason i haven't paid for a ticket :\
only reason he's umutable now is because mrbitters has been casting with him.
He's grown on me and I rather like his casting, I think him and inControl make a really good pair.
On May 28 2011 12:30 Hollis wrote: One thing I will say about Gretorp is, even though I'm sure he's aware of all the criticism leveled against him, some of it constructive and some of it not so constructive, he still keeps trucking. Good for him.
But he's still bad and he still should be replaced, IMO.
Sorry I just don't see what's so bad about him.
same, the haters just bash him with no explaination.
His constant mispronunciation of words; his unfunny jokes; his repetitious vocabulary; etc.
I love NASL and I want it to be the best it can be. It isn't the best it can be with Gretorp at the helm. He tries hard but his lack of vocab + malapropisms makes for a painful, painful listening experience.
He's analytical. He has great knowledge of the game. He's a great straight man to iNcontroL's funny man. He does a better job than a lot of other casters can. Him and iNcontroL together are funnier and a better casting team than anyone but Tastosis in my opinion, and even that can be argued.
Of course it can be argued, opinions about casters are, well, opinions... There generally isn't any objective way of "proving" or showing that a particular caster is good, most of it comes down to personal preference. Personally, I can't stand listening to Incontrol; Gretorp's analysis seems okay, but his English is a little weird -- still, I've enjoyed him with TB and Mr. Bitter. But that's just my opinion -- it doesn't mean anything. People posting in LR threads don't prove anything either. 15,000 people were watching the NASL -- a dozen people on TL saying "Gretorp rules" or "Gretorp sucks" doesn't show anything about the overall opinion of the audience.
Sorry if this sounds aggressive or anything, it's not particularly directed at you, but at the whole "Caster A sucks / No he's awesome" type of debate that's been happening alot recently. Just saying I don't see the point in debating something that comes down to personal preference.
No no you're cool. Like I really understand where you're coming from. He's not the best caster, but I enjoy his casting.
Hey guys -- the match vs Haypro was not aired because he was bedridden with a fever. It will be broadcast along with next week's match for Division 3.
I apologize for us not making an announcement of it in today's show, it won't happen again. Thanks all for your patience and understanding, hope you enjoyed the games today!
On May 28 2011 12:50 dabom88 wrote: I don't hate Gretorp, I just think he's terrible for the NASL. I never going to buy a ticket as long as I keep hearing him on the stream and vods.
same here. i thought i was being too anal about gretorp's casting at first, but it seems like a lot of people feel the same way. he is the sole reason i haven't paid for a ticket :\
only reason he's umutable now is because mrbitters has been casting with him.
He's grown on me and I rather like his casting, I think him and inControl make a really good pair.
I think Mr. Bitters is great too.
I'm really surprised how good mr bitter is, especially with the analytical side of casting. All of those 12 weeks episodes must have helped him a lot in that regard
Gretorp is great! His vocal quirks can be annoying at times but he adds a layer of emotional analysis and reaction that not everyone has. Incontrol for instance, always sounds as if he's putting on his nasl character to do the show. Everyone can agree that Mr. Bitter was great.
Man, everyone is just brutal to casters. There are definitely casters I prefer over others, but so far none have been so bad to keep me from paying for NASL or GSL.
On May 28 2011 13:26 VillageBC wrote: Man, everyone is just brutal to casters. There are definitely casters I prefer over others, but so far none have been so bad to keep me from paying for NASL or GSL.
I don't think people are really brutal, I think that yes, they do have some expectations and voice their complaints and criticisms but there's really nothing wrong with that... There are very few casters that would straight up keep me from buying a ticket, I can really only think of one or two.
They're also incredibly supportive when a caster comes on and is genuinely good, people aren't just trying to be dicks...
I mean, look at all the support and praise for Mr. Bitter, though I think there's a tinge of skew in his commentary, it's certainly not a deal breaker and his commentary and analysis is thoroughly enjoyable.
Today's group is very interesting, nada needs a couple of 2-0 wins to take over strelock/squirtle...here is me wishing he will win 2-0 in his next games, and man the other groups are very very interesting.
On May 28 2011 13:10 Xeris wrote: Hey guys -- the match vs Haypro was not aired because he was bedridden with a fever. It will be broadcast along with next week's match for Division 3.
I apologize for us not making an announcement of it in today's show, it won't happen again. Thanks all for your patience and understanding, hope you enjoyed the games today!
Thanks for letting us know, if a bit late :-p Glad that they'll still play the match, though.
Has anyone looked at the NASL standings lately? The current top 15 are absolutely sick. I know there are still playoffs and the qualifier, but the LAN finals are going to be incredible.
On May 29 2011 02:21 breakingties wrote: "2 rax op" shut the hell up thx. dont want to hear zerg cries on commentated matches as well as my ladder games
he was joking I'm a terran and didn't felt offended at all, in fact that made me laugh xD
A lot of zergs upgrade only attack vs terran, not only for lings but for mutas, I don't understand. Mutaling are a lot more durable with carapace upgrades, and as soon has terran has attack upgrade advantage over armor upgrade, the zerg army just melt. But when the zerg has armor advantage over attack, the battles are looking totally different. Mutalisks with critical mass just one shot anything anyway, not that muta atk upgrades are pointless but way less useful than armor vs marines compositions.
the "game ending" sound is so fucking loud i cant watch it at night, cause the commentary is really ok, ingame sound too, but when the game ended it just blasted away with the hard rock guitars at 3 in the morning with neighbors left and right, and another poor guy sleeping one story below my subwoofer. i got some angry calls, even.
this stinks. i cant watch with headphones cuz as i watch i lie in bed slowly drifting off to sleep, but if i have to get up everytime as a game looks like its about to finish to turn the sound down immediatedly, i will never doze off. even if i turn off the subwoofer, its still earbleedingly loud.
It every every time i watch some important match tbh. Whenever im thinking nasl is cool, it crashes...Not proffesional, they started quite long time ago, and problem occur really often
Well... apparently the NASL isn't pissed enough about this, because the crashing is really common for us EU folks and it has been for weeks and nothing changes.
So yes... while I blame jtv, I ALSO blame NASL for not applying enough pressure.
On May 29 2011 04:09 Blib wrote: Don't blame NASL Crescend1, this is JTV's fault. Still sucks, but I think the NASL-guys are more pissed over this than we will ever be.
Where do you know this from? All other JTV streams work, so my guess would be that the fault is on NASLs end.
the guy co-commentating with gretorp right now is mr bitter? wow, this is probably the best commentator i've ever seen so far, very professional while keeping things interesting! if he isn't already he should be a regular host on NASL.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/motbob/NASL_Banner.jpg)
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NaDa < Metalopolis > ![[image loading]](/images/flags2/ca.png)
SLush![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1614.jpg)
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NaNiwa < Metalopolis > ![[image loading]](/images/flags2/us.png)
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Naniwa vs Axslav ![[image loading]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_knkvaxcxu7Q/TGM-g-Vv_jI/AAAAAAAAATc/Ek_jvPSN4uU/s1600/dumb%252Band%252Bdumber.gif )
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Moonglade vs Kawaiirice ![[image loading]](http://bushluv.tripod.com/roxbury/rstone.jpg)
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