EPT
On May 12 2011 11:36 Azarkon wrote:
Heh, that's a pretty cool composition. Think I'll start playing around with it, especially after they buffed Archons
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2011 11:35 Whitewing wrote:
Yeah, I've been playing around with them a lot lately, because if you can manage to get a large amount of carriers out, the only thing terran can do to stop you, literally, is somehow get a bunch of battlecruisers out, and somehow manage to get yamato cannon shots off without getting hit by feedbacks from the HT support.
I've been experimenting with a mid-game heavy gateway style with 2-3 warp prisms with speed upgrade flying around the map at the same time warping in units at multiple locations at once for harass damage and pinning my enemy, which I find to be very effective (my win rate against terran and zerg has jumped to 90% since I started doing this), and then I do a transition into carriers. You can support 3 stargate carrier EASILY on 3 bases for example.
On May 12 2011 11:30 Azarkon wrote:
Well then that's the problem. Late-game build time is as important as cost effectiveness especially if the Terran can just keep trading his vikings for your carriers and then punishing the rest of your army. Marines aren't too big of a deal because Protoss has plenty of solutions against Marines - both Colossi and HTs flat out destroy them. But getting a carrier + anything death ball up is really hard because of carrier build times. This made Terran mech a viable route at least until the last patch.
On May 12 2011 11:26 Whitewing wrote:
Carriers don't really 'counter' vikings, they kill more vikings than their cost, but they build a hell of a lot slower. One carrier can take down 3 vikings for example, especially with upgrades, but a reactored starport will pump them so much faster. You don't see it often because marines destroy interceptors, carriers take ages to build and are expensive (combination meaning that you're out 350/250 for a ridiculously long time before you get the damn unit), and very rarely do terrans go for a 200/200 mech ball where protoss recognizes it early enough to get carriers out. I've seen White-Ra demolish some terran mech players with it on his stream.
Carriers are actually extremely powerful units, the problem is that their build time is absurdly long, they're expensive, they're very hard to tech too while staying alive, and players don't really do large mech builds most of the time.
On May 12 2011 11:21 Azarkon wrote:
I've never seen carriers used effectively against mech. Yes it's possible, no I haven't seen it done. Theoretically speaking, if carriers counter vikings, then carrier colossi (or carrier HT) should ripe apart all Terran armies (since then the only tool Terran would have vs. carriers are marines) but I've never seen it work.
On May 12 2011 11:15 Whitewing wrote:
Not quite, carriers are actually cost effective against vikings, and your void rays can go in after the intercepters launch (get some phoenix too to tank/dps vikings and lift tanks).
On May 12 2011 11:13 Azarkon wrote:
Even then they wouldn't because Thors do relatively well vs. Immortals. 250mm pre-patch devastated Immortal groups.
Protoss air is countered by vikings, so 200/200 mech should really be played with either marines or vikings.
On May 12 2011 11:11 sermokala wrote:
If they where spaced out and there wasn't any ghosts out then yeah they would.
but the problem is that there is and they never are. The counter to Mech is protoss air. You can't go wrong with 20 void rays and 3 carriers.
On May 12 2011 11:09 Azarkon wrote:
50 supply's worth of immortals would not kill 200/200 mech. I think Gretorp was exaggerating, and Idra just didn't want to argue. Although, mech is less viable after the patch due to thors being countered by HTs.
50 supply's worth of immortals would not kill 200/200 mech. I think Gretorp was exaggerating, and Idra just didn't want to argue. Although, mech is less viable after the patch due to thors being countered by HTs.
If they where spaced out and there wasn't any ghosts out then yeah they would.
but the problem is that there is and they never are. The counter to Mech is protoss air. You can't go wrong with 20 void rays and 3 carriers.
Even then they wouldn't because Thors do relatively well vs. Immortals. 250mm pre-patch devastated Immortal groups.
Protoss air is countered by vikings, so 200/200 mech should really be played with either marines or vikings.
Not quite, carriers are actually cost effective against vikings, and your void rays can go in after the intercepters launch (get some phoenix too to tank/dps vikings and lift tanks).
I've never seen carriers used effectively against mech. Yes it's possible, no I haven't seen it done. Theoretically speaking, if carriers counter vikings, then carrier colossi (or carrier HT) should ripe apart all Terran armies (since then the only tool Terran would have vs. carriers are marines) but I've never seen it work.
Carriers don't really 'counter' vikings, they kill more vikings than their cost, but they build a hell of a lot slower. One carrier can take down 3 vikings for example, especially with upgrades, but a reactored starport will pump them so much faster. You don't see it often because marines destroy interceptors, carriers take ages to build and are expensive (combination meaning that you're out 350/250 for a ridiculously long time before you get the damn unit), and very rarely do terrans go for a 200/200 mech ball where protoss recognizes it early enough to get carriers out. I've seen White-Ra demolish some terran mech players with it on his stream.
Carriers are actually extremely powerful units, the problem is that their build time is absurdly long, they're expensive, they're very hard to tech too while staying alive, and players don't really do large mech builds most of the time.
Well then that's the problem. Late-game build time is as important as cost effectiveness especially if the Terran can just keep trading his vikings for your carriers and then punishing the rest of your army. Marines aren't too big of a deal because Protoss has plenty of solutions against Marines - both Colossi and HTs flat out destroy them. But getting a carrier + anything death ball up is really hard because of carrier build times. This made Terran mech a viable route at least until the last patch.
Yeah, I've been playing around with them a lot lately, because if you can manage to get a large amount of carriers out, the only thing terran can do to stop you, literally, is somehow get a bunch of battlecruisers out, and somehow manage to get yamato cannon shots off without getting hit by feedbacks from the HT support.
I've been experimenting with a mid-game heavy gateway style with 2-3 warp prisms with speed upgrade flying around the map at the same time warping in units at multiple locations at once for harass damage and pinning my enemy, which I find to be very effective (my win rate against terran and zerg has jumped to 90% since I started doing this), and then I do a transition into carriers. You can support 3 stargate carrier EASILY on 3 bases for example.
Heh, that's a pretty cool composition. Think I'll start playing around with it, especially after they buffed Archons
Yeah, even after they get detection, warping in DT's is still awesome, and archon drops are actually beastly good. What's really fun is getting the warp prism in, warping in a sentry and a couple DT's, and forcefielding the ramp, then pulling out when you run out of energy.
Indeed, DTs are even more viable now post-patch given that they transform into archons that actually hold their own.
