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Great writeup, This situation isn't likely to repeat itself in the near future. It sucks that the stars lined up to screw over Sixjax this one time, but I'm sure next season they can get a top2 spot.
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Yep, good article from Sixjax. Honestly, I'm friends with everyone in the league. Not trying to screw anyone over. I was the only player available, I played instead of forfeitting. We already had a secured playoff spot. That's pretty much it.
Hope you all enjoy the playoffs!
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It's heartwrenching for the SJ players, I'm sure, but at the end of the day it's not Fnatic's responsibility to get SixJax in the playoffs, it's SixJax's.
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On June 23 2011 13:56 Xeris wrote:
Yep, good article from Sixjax. Honestly, I'm friends with everyone in the league. Not trying to screw anyone over. I was the only player available, I played instead of forfeitting. We already had a secured playoff spot. That's pretty much it.
Hope you all enjoy the playoffs!
Honestly, if anything what you did is more bm towards coL because you didn't even take them seriously. Even then though, its barely bm at all.
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On June 23 2011 14:01 MrDudeMan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 13:56 Xeris wrote:
Yep, good article from Sixjax. Honestly, I'm friends with everyone in the league. Not trying to screw anyone over. I was the only player available, I played instead of forfeitting. We already had a secured playoff spot. That's pretty much it.
Hope you all enjoy the playoffs! Honestly, if anything what you did is more bm towards coL because you didn't even take them seriously. Even then though, its barely bm at all.
They didn't need to take them seriously. Why take them serious now when you potentially have to play a playoff game against them? Perhaps this was them saving themselves for a potential series with them later?
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If we had a player available, we would have used him.
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On June 23 2011 14:00 kpzd wrote:
It's heartwrenching for the SJ players, I'm sure, but at the end of the day it's not Fnatic's responsibility to get SixJax in the playoffs, it's SixJax's.
Considering Fnatic's recent history with Root--TT1 and Fenix living in the same house specifically, the situation looks kind of raunchy to me.
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On June 23 2011 14:05 cyprin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 14:00 kpzd wrote:
It's heartwrenching for the SJ players, I'm sure, but at the end of the day it's not Fnatic's responsibility to get SixJax in the playoffs, it's SixJax's. Considering Fnatic's recent history with Root--TT1 and Fenix living in the same house specifically, the situation looks kind of raunchy to me.
I had originally typed that out, how they had a show and how they were building a semi-collaborate player house together, but honestly, who cares? Who cares if Fnatic let their friends get a "walkover" to get into the playoffs? Does shit like that matter? Wouldn't teamates do it if it was group stages and 2 could get through? Would we also talk shit about them? No, we wouldn't. I don't think letting friends through, if that's even what happened, is that big a deal.
It's not Fnatic's fault that SixJax isn't in, it's Sixjax's.
EDIT: And maybe it's not even that they're friends. Maybe Fnatic just thinks coL is an easier opponent that SJ would be and -that's- why they didn't play Sen/Fenix/TT1. Or maybe just because it looks fishy doesn't mean it is fishy, and they didn't have a player readily available and didn't care if they won/lost because it didn't change seeding or lose their spot.
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That sixjax article was really depressing to read. On it's face it seems like a pathetic move by fnatic.
Saying 'sixjax should win more" is moot considering they clearly DID win enough to get in. The amount of wins sixjax won are more than enough to qualify them. However because of 1. fnatic throwing a series and 2. a tiebreaker that involves a team which doesn't even have the player who was key in beating sixjax to get that tie-breaker advantage, a team got screwed.
There is no way you can look at this and say it is fair or that sixjax wasn't screwed. The fnatic part is messed up but i'm sure xeris can sweet talk that away. If fnatic didn't have a guaranteed playoff spot do you think that series would have played out that way? Ofc not.
Also, giving col the root tiebreaker adv when kiwi and slush aren't even on that team anymore is bullshit.
The only way this could have been solved properly is to have a play-in series.
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On June 23 2011 14:01 MrDudeMan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 13:56 Xeris wrote:
Yep, good article from Sixjax. Honestly, I'm friends with everyone in the league. Not trying to screw anyone over. I was the only player available, I played instead of forfeitting. We already had a secured playoff spot. That's pretty much it.
Hope you all enjoy the playoffs! Honestly, if anything what you did is more bm towards coL because you didn't even take them seriously. Even then though, its barely bm at all.
so what was xeris supposed to do? fenix was the only player thay may have been available and he was unable to be contacted. so either xeris plays or they forefit. xeris playing is the better option.
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On June 23 2011 14:10 On_Slaught wrote:
That sixjax article was really depressing to read. On it's face it seems like a pathetic move by fnatic.
Saying 'sixjax should win more" is moot considering they clearly DID win enough to get in. The amount of wins sixjax won are more than enough to qualify them. However because of 1. fnatic throwing a series and 2. a tiebreaker that involves a team which doesn't even have the player who was key in beating sixjax to get that tie-breaker advantage, a team got screwed.
There is no way you can look at this and say it is fair or that sixjax wasn't screwed. The fnatic part is messed up but i'm sure xeris can sweet talk that away.
Guess Presumption of Innocence doesn't exist here.
However giving col the root tiebreaker adv when kiwi and slush aren't even on that team anymore is bullshit.
The only way this could have been solved properly is to have a play-in series.
Except that's not part of the rules. The rules don't address player transitions in-season (and it shouldn't, it would get too murky). The fact is that ROOT/coL won their series against sixjax and that's what matters.
BTW I really dislike ROOT/coL (more ROOT). Doesn't mean that they got their spot unfairly.
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On June 23 2011 14:05 cyprin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 14:00 kpzd wrote:
It's heartwrenching for the SJ players, I'm sure, but at the end of the day it's not Fnatic's responsibility to get SixJax in the playoffs, it's SixJax's. Considering Fnatic's recent history with Root--TT1 and Fenix living in the same house specifically, the situation looks kind of raunchy to me.
I honestly don't think so, Fnatic has had issues with scheduling players for tournaments before, simply because their players are all over the place, remember when KawaiiRice had to play in an Ace match and they gave a free walk-over for their 2v2?
This time, at least they put their sick ace Xeris in, he almost pulled it out for them with his sick skills...
No, but seriously... I don't see anything suspicious here.
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On June 23 2011 14:00 kpzd wrote:
It's heartwrenching for the SJ players, I'm sure, but at the end of the day it's not Fnatic's responsibility to get SixJax in the playoffs, it's SixJax's.
I agree. Also, the j is lower case (knowledge is power).
The circumstances, as I said in my article, are so bizarrely unlikely that I don't know how frustrated I can really get.
Me being absolutely honest, I don't know how I feel. I bounce between being extremely disappointed to livid (at the Starcraft gods?) and then back down. It must have been a million to one shot that this last series played out like this, resulting in a tie with the team that we kind-of-sort-of lost too earlier in the season.
I talked to Colbi earlier, and as sympathetic as he was (he understands where I'm coming from, it's seriously a "Wow really?" turn of events) he has to be consistent as an admin. As easy as it to have a chat in IRC and Skype and say "Wow, we/you really got dicked over" it's almost impossible to enforce that. It'd be a tough sell as a tournament admin.
That said, of course breaks my heart there at least couldn't have been a playoff game. I think in most case (not all, but most) Sixjax beats coL in a CW. They do have some good players, and we actually have a couple of players with horrible MUs, but I think most times we walk out of that on top.
Finally to respond to the folks saying we should have won more mid season: Yes, of course. Had we got another 2v2 or a 1v1 it wouldn't have been an issue. Inversely, we never got spoon fed a win.
(Writer's note: Paulo, Edward, and Andrew I love you all to death, and I hope you can understand my frustrations).
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On June 23 2011 14:12 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 14:10 On_Slaught wrote:
That sixjax article was really depressing to read. On it's face it seems like a pathetic move by fnatic.
Saying 'sixjax should win more" is moot considering they clearly DID win enough to get in. The amount of wins sixjax won are more than enough to qualify them. However because of 1. fnatic throwing a series and 2. a tiebreaker that involves a team which doesn't even have the player who was key in beating sixjax to get that tie-breaker advantage, a team got screwed.
There is no way you can look at this and say it is fair or that sixjax wasn't screwed. The fnatic part is messed up but i'm sure xeris can sweet talk that away. Guess Presumption of Innocence doesn't exist here. Show nested quote +However giving col the root tiebreaker adv when kiwi and slush aren't even on that team anymore is bullshit.
The only way this could have been solved properly is to have a play-in series. Except that's not part of the rules. The rules don't address player transitions in-season (and it shouldn't, it would get too murky). The fact is that ROOT/coL won their series against sixjax and that's what matters. BTW I really dislike ROOT/coL (more ROOT). Doesn't mean that they got their spot unfairly.
But Root/col didn't beat sixjax, root did.
If you can give a tie-break to a team b/c half of the team is from another team who got a win, then why is it any different than me saying "you don't get the tiebreaker b/c half of your team WASN'T part of the victory over sixjax?"
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On June 23 2011 14:10 On_Slaught wrote:
That sixjax article was really depressing to read. On it's face it seems like a pathetic move by fnatic.
Saying 'sixjax should win more" is moot considering they clearly DID win enough to get in. The amount of wins sixjax won are more than enough to qualify them. However because of 1. fnatic throwing a series and 2. a tiebreaker that involves a team which doesn't even have the player who was key in beating sixjax to get that tie-breaker advantage, a team got screwed.
There is no way you can look at this and say it is fair or that sixjax wasn't screwed. The fnatic part is messed up but i'm sure xeris can sweet talk that away. If fnatic didn't have a guaranteed playoff spot do you think that series would have played out that way? Ofc not.
Also, giving col the root tiebreaker adv when kiwi and slush aren't even on that team anymore is bullshit.
The only way this could have been solved properly is to have a play-in series.
No, because coL is still ROOT. Just because they were acquired and changed names doesn't change the fact that it's still the same people playing, just replace KiWi with CrunCher.. If KiWi had left ROOT and ROOT picked up a FA do you think there should be a regame because roster changes took place? Because that's all that really happened here.
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The problem is that there's no rule to address a mid-season team acquisition / change. It's unprecedented. You can't fault the EG Masters Cup administration for not having rules in place to account for this. They couldn't have possibly known Complexity would acquire ROOT 75% of the way through the season.
Also -- for some reason, the EG master cup worked out so that 2 of the final playoff spots (Mouz and Fnatic) were decided by Week 7.
If you compare to the GCPL for example -- we were in a position that we NEEDED to win our final game against root to make the playoffs. Week 7 of GCPL was important for all of the top 6 teams in the league. For whatever reason, this tournament had half the playoff spots decided. Even if we lost 0-4, I'm pretty sure we would have made the playoffs.
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So in the end whos in the playoffs ?
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On June 23 2011 14:17 kpzd wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 14:10 On_Slaught wrote:
That sixjax article was really depressing to read. On it's face it seems like a pathetic move by fnatic.
Saying 'sixjax should win more" is moot considering they clearly DID win enough to get in. The amount of wins sixjax won are more than enough to qualify them. However because of 1. fnatic throwing a series and 2. a tiebreaker that involves a team which doesn't even have the player who was key in beating sixjax to get that tie-breaker advantage, a team got screwed.
There is no way you can look at this and say it is fair or that sixjax wasn't screwed. The fnatic part is messed up but i'm sure xeris can sweet talk that away. If fnatic didn't have a guaranteed playoff spot do you think that series would have played out that way? Ofc not.
Also, giving col the root tiebreaker adv when kiwi and slush aren't even on that team anymore is bullshit.
The only way this could have been solved properly is to have a play-in series. No, because coL is still ROOT. Just because they were acquired and changed names doesn't change the fact that it's still the same people playing, just replace KiWi with CrunCher.. If KiWi had left ROOT and ROOT picked up a FA do you think there should be a regame because roster changes took place? Because that's all that really happened here.
What is the cutoff? If Thorzain joined MyM and the rest of his teammates quit, would MyM now get all the tiebreakers and results of mouz?
If more than half of col wasn't on root when they beat sixjax, then should the entire team get the benefits of that win? col wasn't even invited to this tourny and now a small part of roots team transfers their results over?
Seems arbitrary. Out of curiosity, is there anything in the rules about a situation like this? On how team mergers/roster changes work? I would assume it isn't in there b/c it is so rare which would beg the question of why they went around it this way instead of a play-in, which is fair to both sides.
Edit: Xeris just posted ^^^ and apparently there is no rule. If that is the case, and we're just making shit up as we go at this point, why does col get to benefit for something they didn't do? I suppose it's a dead horse now (or dying fast), but it still seems like sixjax got screwed with no recourse.
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CoL has lost Kiwikaki and gained some new players as well. It seems like if they want to be as fair as possible and two teams are tied, why not just let them play a tiebreaker round? I understand maybe it would be difficult to schedule or whatever but what would the league and teams involved rather have, an oddly timed match on short notice or the bullcrap that this is?
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On June 23 2011 14:20 SuperStyle wrote:
So in the end whos in the playoffs ?
Fnatic, Dignitas, Mouz, and compLexity
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EPT
