|
IdrA lost because he got outplayed and made stupid decisions...
I don't want to get into another balance discussion in a report thread...
|
On June 01 2011 11:24 Rayansaki wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 11:20 ThaZenith wrote:On June 01 2011 11:15 Rayansaki wrote:
haha what an asshole.
You're an idiot. Too bad IdrA played terrible today. Much, much to aggressive into force fields during all 3 games. In that third game, if he had played it even 20% less aggressive at the start he would have taken it right there. But he kept engaging with half his force, and then ran in lings in pairs into minigun's ball for no reason. Had hoped IdrA would have done more burrow/drop play to deal with FF's, ah well. Why am I an idiot? Idra played way way worse than he is capable off and was smashed by minigun, then proceded to ragequit. This after trash talking him a lot in ladder where they met for 3 games earlier and minigun brutalized him by 3-0. Does that not make him an asshole ? ;>
Would you say ROOT instigating Idra to be an asshole move as well?
|
kiwikaki just completely pwns axslav
GO ROOT!!!!!
|
On June 01 2011 11:24 MonsieurGrimm wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 11:23 ccHaZaRd wrote:On June 01 2011 11:21 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:19 Jyvblamo wrote:On June 01 2011 11:16 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:14 Jyvblamo wrote:On June 01 2011 11:14 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:12 Mordiford wrote:On June 01 2011 11:11 Chicane wrote:On June 01 2011 11:10 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
T___T mingun allins, idra defends it, minigun expands and now idra is behind :/ You got it backwards. Minigun expands, IdrA all ins and doesn't do enough damage with it and is behind. Yeah, what game were you watching? I'm pretty sure Minigun was the defender with IdrA streaming in units... the one where minigun 4gated and then attacked with a zealot and a bunch of sentries Did you notice the part where his natural expansion was already up when his sentries and zealots reached Idra's front? well then why the hell did he push out with a fuckton of expensive units, and build an aggro pylon? the good old make nothing but sentries and try to kill the zerg build? He put on pressure with those units because Idra rarely makes many units at that point in the game, to force units (which worked). At that point he forced Idra to make a hard decision, go all in by staying on even base with Toss and making units, or make just enough to defend and try to extend the game by taking a third. On June 01 2011 11:18 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:14 Chicane wrote:On June 01 2011 11:12 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:11 Chicane wrote:On June 01 2011 11:10 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
T___T mingun allins, idra defends it, minigun expands and now idra is behind :/ You got it backwards. Minigun expands, IdrA all ins and doesn't do enough damage with it and is behind. you missed the part where minigun 4gated and tried to be aggressive with it, forcing idra to make those units which were basically useless against forcefields You have never seen a player put on a bit of pressure? That's just good game play. He moved forward and instantly pulled back as he expanded. potentially sacrificing all your expensive as fuck units is good gameplay now? You don't always move out with your army with the intention of killing the enemy. so pretty much you can move out whenever you want because you have forcefields, and put the zerg behind instantly...? only puts the zerg behind if they make 50 lings and attack move them you mean, doing what you have to do in order to defend the allin that this "pressure" could very well be?
You have to stop. You are the very definition of a zerg QQer. If you want to whine and complain I encourage you to make a thread for it; some of us want to enjoy the games without the headaches.
Many people already explained the thought process behind Minigun's play and it was sound. He simply out played IdrA that game. I know it is hard to accept that your zerg god lost a game, but he isn't unbeatable.
|
On June 01 2011 11:22 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 11:20 Chicane wrote:On June 01 2011 11:18 bluestuff wrote:
forcefields are just abysmal from a game design perspective, and completly mitigating the micro from the player facing them I wouldn't say completely. Completely would be fungal growth which is essentially 8 forcefields around a section of an army, not allowing them to move at all (can't blink away, can't burrow away etc.) Forcefields are far better than Fungal. Fungal at least allows your units to attack (assuming they're not melee with most units aren't).
You must be hallucinating. Both fungal and forcefields allow you to attack as long as you have the same range or more than the units attacking you. It's exactly the same, except you need to use several forcefields to completelly surround a group of units so he cant run away or forward, while fungal is just 1.
|
Holy fuck Kiwi just tore him apart.
|
|
|
On June 01 2011 11:21 neoenigma wrote:
This is why SC2 is so frustrating to watch. Minigun isn't anywhere close to Idra's level. This BS wasn't in Brood War. Forcefields make it impossible for ground units to engage on maps like this.
Sure, it was silly for Idra to engage there, but what else could he do on that map?
Every game with forcefields make me less of a fan of SC2. They make for boring games. I hated them when I saw them in Beta... and it hasn't changed since then.
Don't get too nostalgic now. I played Terran and DT drops made me want to break a table.
|
On June 01 2011 11:24 MonsieurGrimm wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 11:23 ccHaZaRd wrote:On June 01 2011 11:21 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:19 Jyvblamo wrote:On June 01 2011 11:16 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:14 Jyvblamo wrote:On June 01 2011 11:14 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:12 Mordiford wrote:On June 01 2011 11:11 Chicane wrote:On June 01 2011 11:10 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
T___T mingun allins, idra defends it, minigun expands and now idra is behind :/ You got it backwards. Minigun expands, IdrA all ins and doesn't do enough damage with it and is behind. Yeah, what game were you watching? I'm pretty sure Minigun was the defender with IdrA streaming in units... the one where minigun 4gated and then attacked with a zealot and a bunch of sentries Did you notice the part where his natural expansion was already up when his sentries and zealots reached Idra's front? well then why the hell did he push out with a fuckton of expensive units, and build an aggro pylon? the good old make nothing but sentries and try to kill the zerg build? He put on pressure with those units because Idra rarely makes many units at that point in the game, to force units (which worked). At that point he forced Idra to make a hard decision, go all in by staying on even base with Toss and making units, or make just enough to defend and try to extend the game by taking a third. On June 01 2011 11:18 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:14 Chicane wrote:On June 01 2011 11:12 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:11 Chicane wrote:On June 01 2011 11:10 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
T___T mingun allins, idra defends it, minigun expands and now idra is behind :/ You got it backwards. Minigun expands, IdrA all ins and doesn't do enough damage with it and is behind. you missed the part where minigun 4gated and tried to be aggressive with it, forcing idra to make those units which were basically useless against forcefields You have never seen a player put on a bit of pressure? That's just good game play. He moved forward and instantly pulled back as he expanded. potentially sacrificing all your expensive as fuck units is good gameplay now? You don't always move out with your army with the intention of killing the enemy. so pretty much you can move out whenever you want because you have forcefields, and put the zerg behind instantly...? only puts the zerg behind if they make 50 lings and attack move them you mean, doing what you have to do in order to defend the allin that this "pressure" could very well be? Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 11:24 AndAgain wrote:On June 01 2011 11:21 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:19 Jyvblamo wrote:On June 01 2011 11:16 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:14 Jyvblamo wrote:On June 01 2011 11:14 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:12 Mordiford wrote:On June 01 2011 11:11 Chicane wrote:On June 01 2011 11:10 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
T___T mingun allins, idra defends it, minigun expands and now idra is behind :/ You got it backwards. Minigun expands, IdrA all ins and doesn't do enough damage with it and is behind. Yeah, what game were you watching? I'm pretty sure Minigun was the defender with IdrA streaming in units... the one where minigun 4gated and then attacked with a zealot and a bunch of sentries Did you notice the part where his natural expansion was already up when his sentries and zealots reached Idra's front? well then why the hell did he push out with a fuckton of expensive units, and build an aggro pylon? the good old make nothing but sentries and try to kill the zerg build? He put on pressure with those units because Idra rarely makes many units at that point in the game, to force units (which worked). At that point he forced Idra to make a hard decision, go all in by staying on even base with Toss and making units, or make just enough to defend and try to extend the game by taking a third. On June 01 2011 11:18 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:14 Chicane wrote:On June 01 2011 11:12 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:11 Chicane wrote:On June 01 2011 11:10 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
T___T mingun allins, idra defends it, minigun expands and now idra is behind :/ You got it backwards. Minigun expands, IdrA all ins and doesn't do enough damage with it and is behind. you missed the part where minigun 4gated and tried to be aggressive with it, forcing idra to make those units which were basically useless against forcefields You have never seen a player put on a bit of pressure? That's just good game play. He moved forward and instantly pulled back as he expanded. potentially sacrificing all your expensive as fuck units is good gameplay now? You don't always move out with your army with the intention of killing the enemy. so pretty much you can move out whenever you want because you have forcefields, and put the zerg behind instantly...? Yeah, there's no risk to moving out with 450/700 worth of snow globes in the middle of the map. I'm saying that it's a huge risk -____________- but other people are saying it's good gameplay which I don't understand
It was good play, but Idra's response was not good. Going all in with poor army control lost him the game. The all in might have worked if he didn't stream in lings with his roaches so far behind, who can say. But, Idra didn't have to make as many units as he did. He could have made much less and taken a third. You act as if the pressure left Idra with 0 options.
|
Looks like pvp is still whoever expands first loses sadly. Maybe its just xelnaga but I wonder if axlav's build would have worked on taldarim.
|
On June 01 2011 11:26 Rayansaki wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 11:22 Blasphemi wrote:On June 01 2011 11:20 Chicane wrote:On June 01 2011 11:18 bluestuff wrote:
forcefields are just abysmal from a game design perspective, and completly mitigating the micro from the player facing them I wouldn't say completely. Completely would be fungal growth which is essentially 8 forcefields around a section of an army, not allowing them to move at all (can't blink away, can't burrow away etc.) Forcefields are far better than Fungal. Fungal at least allows your units to attack (assuming they're not melee with most units aren't). You must be hallucinating. Both fungal and forcefields allow you to attack as long as you have the same range or more than the units attacking you. It's exactly the same, except you need to use several forcefields to completelly surround a group of units so he cant run away or forward, while fungal is just 1.
You missed the part where FF negates 3+ range from your units. Sentries, Stalkers and Colossus can hit roaches without being hit back.
|
Idra got outplayed.. I mean its simple as that. We can sit and debate how awesome Idra is and how he should win every game when he loses in every thread or we can accept Mini out gunned him. Give the dude some credit damn.
|
On June 01 2011 11:27 Jyvblamo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 11:24 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:23 ccHaZaRd wrote:On June 01 2011 11:21 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:19 Jyvblamo wrote:On June 01 2011 11:16 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:14 Jyvblamo wrote:On June 01 2011 11:14 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:12 Mordiford wrote:On June 01 2011 11:11 Chicane wrote:
[quote]
You got it backwards. Minigun expands, IdrA all ins and doesn't do enough damage with it and is behind. Yeah, what game were you watching? I'm pretty sure Minigun was the defender with IdrA streaming in units... the one where minigun 4gated and then attacked with a zealot and a bunch of sentries Did you notice the part where his natural expansion was already up when his sentries and zealots reached Idra's front? well then why the hell did he push out with a fuckton of expensive units, and build an aggro pylon? the good old make nothing but sentries and try to kill the zerg build? He put on pressure with those units because Idra rarely makes many units at that point in the game, to force units (which worked). At that point he forced Idra to make a hard decision, go all in by staying on even base with Toss and making units, or make just enough to defend and try to extend the game by taking a third. On June 01 2011 11:18 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:14 Chicane wrote:On June 01 2011 11:12 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:11 Chicane wrote:On June 01 2011 11:10 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
T___T mingun allins, idra defends it, minigun expands and now idra is behind :/ You got it backwards. Minigun expands, IdrA all ins and doesn't do enough damage with it and is behind. you missed the part where minigun 4gated and tried to be aggressive with it, forcing idra to make those units which were basically useless against forcefields You have never seen a player put on a bit of pressure? That's just good game play. He moved forward and instantly pulled back as he expanded. potentially sacrificing all your expensive as fuck units is good gameplay now? You don't always move out with your army with the intention of killing the enemy. so pretty much you can move out whenever you want because you have forcefields, and put the zerg behind instantly...? only puts the zerg behind if they make 50 lings and attack move them you mean, doing what you have to do in order to defend the allin that this "pressure" could very well be? On June 01 2011 11:24 AndAgain wrote:On June 01 2011 11:21 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:19 Jyvblamo wrote:On June 01 2011 11:16 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:14 Jyvblamo wrote:On June 01 2011 11:14 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:12 Mordiford wrote:On June 01 2011 11:11 Chicane wrote:
[quote]
You got it backwards. Minigun expands, IdrA all ins and doesn't do enough damage with it and is behind. Yeah, what game were you watching? I'm pretty sure Minigun was the defender with IdrA streaming in units... the one where minigun 4gated and then attacked with a zealot and a bunch of sentries Did you notice the part where his natural expansion was already up when his sentries and zealots reached Idra's front? well then why the hell did he push out with a fuckton of expensive units, and build an aggro pylon? the good old make nothing but sentries and try to kill the zerg build? He put on pressure with those units because Idra rarely makes many units at that point in the game, to force units (which worked). At that point he forced Idra to make a hard decision, go all in by staying on even base with Toss and making units, or make just enough to defend and try to extend the game by taking a third. On June 01 2011 11:18 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:14 Chicane wrote:On June 01 2011 11:12 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:11 Chicane wrote:On June 01 2011 11:10 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
T___T mingun allins, idra defends it, minigun expands and now idra is behind :/ You got it backwards. Minigun expands, IdrA all ins and doesn't do enough damage with it and is behind. you missed the part where minigun 4gated and tried to be aggressive with it, forcing idra to make those units which were basically useless against forcefields You have never seen a player put on a bit of pressure? That's just good game play. He moved forward and instantly pulled back as he expanded. potentially sacrificing all your expensive as fuck units is good gameplay now? You don't always move out with your army with the intention of killing the enemy. so pretty much you can move out whenever you want because you have forcefields, and put the zerg behind instantly...? Yeah, there's no risk to moving out with 450/700 worth of snow globes in the middle of the map. I'm saying that it's a huge risk -____________- but other people are saying it's good gameplay which I don't understand It was good play, but Idra's response was not good. Going all in with poor army control lost him the game. The all in might have worked if he didn't stream in lings with his roaches so far behind, who can say. But, Idra didn't have to make as many units as he did. He could have made much less and taken a third. You act as if the pressure left Idra with 0 options.
he had options, but they were all from behind.. I'm trying to think of how he could have reacted to that without being behind.
and he had to engage with those lings at that time if he wanted to get any value out of them. if the sentries got behind the choke, they weren't getting touched by anything
|
On June 01 2011 11:23 neoenigma wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 11:22 KvltMan wrote:
And as usual, this becomes a balance-discussion.
I love me some IdrA, I'm a proud IdrA-fan that'll always support him. But seriously, why does it become such a big deal when he loses?
Read the TL-article about sAviOr, when life gives you lemons, you squirt lemon juice in someone's eyes You rise up to the challenge and bend the rules.. That's where we as fans should be standing with IdrA, not whine and invent excuses for him. Savior didn't have to put up with forcefields on small maps like this... =\
Nestea had, guess what, he pawned toss anyway.
|
On June 01 2011 11:26 Rayansaki wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 11:22 Blasphemi wrote:On June 01 2011 11:20 Chicane wrote:On June 01 2011 11:18 bluestuff wrote:
forcefields are just abysmal from a game design perspective, and completly mitigating the micro from the player facing them I wouldn't say completely. Completely would be fungal growth which is essentially 8 forcefields around a section of an army, not allowing them to move at all (can't blink away, can't burrow away etc.) Forcefields are far better than Fungal. Fungal at least allows your units to attack (assuming they're not melee with most units aren't). You must be hallucinating. Both fungal and forcefields allow you to attack as long as you have the same range or more than the units attacking you. It's exactly the same, except you need to use several forcefields to completelly surround a group of units so he cant run away or forward, while fungal is just 1.
Which would be a perfectly reasonable argument if both Zerg and Protoss could make an army consisting of nothing with less than 6 range. And if force fields didn't last four times as long as fungals.
|
On June 01 2011 11:23 tree.hugger wrote:
ROOT loves trolling EG so much. Gotta love that they back up their talk with good play.
Certainly makes it entertaining.
|
any chance of a quick summary of the kiwi vs axlav game please?
|
This just shows the difference between Idra and Nestea. Idra is still doing the same stuff and whining that he is the 'better player' and should therefore win regardless of strategy in a real time strategy game. If he has Robo you don't get Hydras, it's simple, it doesn't work at all you will lost in 95% of games with Hydras as your dps unit versus Collosus Protoss, it has to be Infestors or Banes unless are endlessly ahead in supply.
Meanwhile in Korea Nestea is busy reinventing the matchup being creative and destroying far better Protoss players than Minigun.
|
On June 01 2011 11:29 Thugtronik wrote:
any chance of a quick summary of the kiwi vs axlav game please?
Kiwikaki played like Kiwikaki.
|
Kind of sad i missed the Idra vs Minigun, pretty funny that minigun 1up'd him again after going 3-0 against him on his stream yesterday.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
