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On June 01 2011 11:15 Rayansaki wrote:
haha what an asshole.
You're an idiot.
Too bad IdrA played terrible today. Much, much to aggressive into force fields during all 3 games. In that third game, if he had played it even 20% less aggressive at the start he would have taken it right there. But he kept engaging with half his force, and then ran in lings in pairs into minigun's ball for no reason.
Had hoped IdrA would have done more burrow/drop play to deal with FF's, ah well.
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On June 01 2011 11:18 bluestuff wrote:
forcefields are just abysmal from a game design perspective, and completly mitigating the micro from the player facing them
So does stasis from broodwar, lockdown from broodwar fungal from infestors and concussive shell from marauders
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I know nothing about Zerg... why is that hey don't include at least a few ultras in late game just to break the forcefields?
I think it would help a lot in a scenario like that last game.
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Would sniping gasses as zerg help vs. P, 1 OV full of roaches could easily snipe 2 gasses and really limit the amount of sentries. In that last game Minigun had like 10 sentries in his army all the time
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On June 01 2011 11:19 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 11:16 hi_0 wrote:
I don't understand why people always say "sick FF's". All u gotta do is make sentries and then drop the forcefields, what could idra have done against that. FF everytime he wants to fight almost endlessly. Either burrow under the forcefields, get Ultras, get broods to make them attack head on or baneling drop over the forcefields. A Zerg has options and running your units into the forcefields is not one of them.
You listed 0 options that were viable in that last game.
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On June 01 2011 11:18 MonsieurGrimm wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 11:14 Chicane wrote:On June 01 2011 11:12 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:11 Chicane wrote:On June 01 2011 11:10 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
T___T mingun allins, idra defends it, minigun expands and now idra is behind :/ You got it backwards. Minigun expands, IdrA all ins and doesn't do enough damage with it and is behind. you missed the part where minigun 4gated and tried to be aggressive with it, forcing idra to make those units which were basically useless against forcefields You have never seen a player put on a bit of pressure? That's just good game play. He moved forward and instantly pulled back as he expanded. potentially sacrificing all your expensive as fuck units is good gameplay now?
Moving out with a sentry heavy force is only dangerous if you suspect the Zerg might have burrow movement already. Otherwise lings won't surround the Protoss if he doesn't actually go up too far.
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On June 01 2011 11:18 bluestuff wrote:
forcefields are just abysmal from a game design perspective, and completly mitigating the micro from the player facing them
I wouldn't say completely. Completely would be fungal growth which is essentially 8 forcefields around a section of an army, not allowing them to move at all (can't blink away, can't burrow away etc.)
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On June 01 2011 11:17 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 11:15 Dexington wrote:On June 01 2011 11:10 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
T___T mingun allins, idra defends it, minigun expands and now idra is behind :/ The fuck? He did a 4 gate expand and defended Idra's all-in. Get out. Idra is way too predictable on that map. This is the second time his roach ling "all-in" was straight up countered on Xel'Naga (first time was against Tyler).
mini countered it with a 4 gate expo. Tyler didnt counter it he did the 3 gate expo and held was good play but didnt "counter" it
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Not to mention that Idra was WAY behind after the roach/ling push failed, he was behind in supply until about 130, barring a mistake from Minigun he'd won the game at the 9 minute mark.
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On June 01 2011 11:16 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 11:15 StarStruck wrote:
Wow minigun has IdrA's number atm.
I don't know why IdrA decided to attack into that I guess he figured he was good because he took out all the colossus. :/ Don't protoss players always tell zerg not sit there and be aggresive? Idra didn't want him to get the deathball is my guess
You don't send all your units without a good concave. Idra threw all his units at him like he didn't care. He could have harassed more.
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This is shaping up to be the first 3-0 of the league.
I don't think Minigun played that well, it seemed mostly IdrA playing to lose. As in playing to give himself reasons that P is broken (regardless of whether it really is or not).
But anyway, first DDE and now Minigun, hmmm this might not be a good omen for him for MLG.
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IdrA losing to a protoss and a thread becoming a whine-fest? Just another day at the office it seems.
Disregarding the FF complaints, I thought Mini handled the pressure well and was on top of his upgrades etc, a much different outcome than the last time these two met on Xel'Naga.
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On June 01 2011 11:20 tianGO wrote:
I know nothing about Zerg... why is that hey don't include at least a few ultras in late game just to break the forcefields?
I think it would help a lot in a scenario like that last game.
no money and idra was desperate and couldn't let minigun take the map so he had to all in with lair units. had no money or time for ultra/brood
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The term "allin" is the new "metagame." Noobs love to use it in spite of not knowing shit about the game.
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This is why SC2 is so frustrating to watch. Minigun isn't anywhere close to Idra's level. This BS wasn't in Brood War. Forcefields make it impossible for ground units to engage on maps like this.
Sure, it was silly for Idra to engage there, but what else could he do on that map?
Every game with forcefields make me less of a fan of SC2. They make for boring games. I hated them when I saw them in Beta... and it hasn't changed since then.
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On June 01 2011 11:19 DeltruS wrote:
Minigun is one of those players that really paid off for ROOT's recruitment policy. He won with pure strategy and fairly low APM. Now he still has that great micro and strategy, but his APM and mechanics have gone way up.
That kind of recruitment really works for some clans, look at vile, they may not be as big as ROOT but that seems like a farm system for teams nowadays.
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On June 01 2011 11:19 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 11:16 hi_0 wrote:
I don't understand why people always say "sick FF's". All u gotta do is make sentries and then drop the forcefields, what could idra have done against that. FF everytime he wants to fight almost endlessly. Either burrow under the forcefields, get Ultras, get broods to make them attack head on or baneling drop over the forcefields. A Zerg has options and running your units into the forcefields is not one of them.
What you're saying is that Zerg has to spend twice as much to combat FFs. That only works if Zerg is better than the Protoss.
Idra just has to ride the FFs out. He's too impatient.
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-.- there is so much random hate that idk what is going on
1. When protoss expands, zerg must go all-in or expo. Idk if there will be debate but this is pretty much agreed upon. Since Mini did early pressure, IdrA already had some units, so decided to all-in, because if he expoed, he'd still suffer economically from dealing with the pressure.
2. Minigun made enough units to deal with all-in, especially with sentries being as powerful as they are. Now IdrA is behind economically- hence people calling for infestors etc... by that point, he could improve tech, econ or army, pick two. If he teched to the "new" ZvP, minigun would have rolled him- otherwise he'd just be behind on economy.
3. That was not IdrA giving up, he was behind, and the old idra would have left about 10 min before the end of that game.
4. Harass and not let get deathball? How. Pylon blocked back door, not enough time to research drop + speed (see 2), minigun played solid
TL;DR minigun played Protoss well, defended early agression and the whole game was IdrA trying to even the game, not him being terrible or lacking new strats
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On June 01 2011 11:19 Jyvblamo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 11:16 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:14 Jyvblamo wrote:On June 01 2011 11:14 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:12 Mordiford wrote:On June 01 2011 11:11 Chicane wrote:On June 01 2011 11:10 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
T___T mingun allins, idra defends it, minigun expands and now idra is behind :/ You got it backwards. Minigun expands, IdrA all ins and doesn't do enough damage with it and is behind. Yeah, what game were you watching? I'm pretty sure Minigun was the defender with IdrA streaming in units... the one where minigun 4gated and then attacked with a zealot and a bunch of sentries Did you notice the part where his natural expansion was already up when his sentries and zealots reached Idra's front? well then why the hell did he push out with a fuckton of expensive units, and build an aggro pylon? the good old make nothing but sentries and try to kill the zerg build? He put on pressure with those units because Idra rarely makes many units at that point in the game, to force units (which worked). At that point he forced Idra to make a hard decision, go all in by staying on even base with Toss and making units, or make just enough to defend and try to extend the game by taking a third. Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 11:18 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:14 Chicane wrote:On June 01 2011 11:12 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:11 Chicane wrote:On June 01 2011 11:10 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
T___T mingun allins, idra defends it, minigun expands and now idra is behind :/ You got it backwards. Minigun expands, IdrA all ins and doesn't do enough damage with it and is behind. you missed the part where minigun 4gated and tried to be aggressive with it, forcing idra to make those units which were basically useless against forcefields You have never seen a player put on a bit of pressure? That's just good game play. He moved forward and instantly pulled back as he expanded. potentially sacrificing all your expensive as fuck units is good gameplay now? You don't always move out with your army with the intention of killing the enemy.
so pretty much you can move out whenever you want because you have forcefields, and put the zerg behind instantly...?
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On June 01 2011 11:19 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 11:17 imareaver3 wrote:On June 01 2011 11:14 Chicane wrote:On June 01 2011 11:12 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 01 2011 11:11 Chicane wrote:On June 01 2011 11:10 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
T___T mingun allins, idra defends it, minigun expands and now idra is behind :/ You got it backwards. Minigun expands, IdrA all ins and doesn't do enough damage with it and is behind. you missed the part where minigun 4gated and tried to be aggressive with it, forcing idra to make those units which were basically useless against forcefields You have never seen a player put on a bit of pressure? That's just good game play. He moved forward and instantly pulled back as he expanded If it was just pressure, that would have been true. But it wasn't--it was an MC 4-gate, and if IdrA had built any fewer units he would have died after the nexus cancel+warp-in+FF on ramp. What bugs us Z isn't that IdrA's later attack failed, it's that Minigun was able to play an all-in, see that his opponent reacted appropriately, and immediately about-face and switch into economic play without being behind. that by it's very definition is not an allin
Agreed...
He built a fucking nexus behind 4 gateways to defend any potential all-ins and apply pressure to force units, it wasn't an all-in.
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EPT
