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On April 24 2011 14:02 RajaF wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 13:59 ImHuko wrote:On April 24 2011 13:58 red4ce wrote:On April 24 2011 13:54 yiodee wrote:On April 24 2011 13:49 RajaF wrote:On April 24 2011 13:48 NoobSh1t wrote:On April 24 2011 13:44 TYJ.Aoy wrote:
Incontrol is so condescending towards Gretorp all the time and I don't really think it looks professional even if it's all jokes. Chill it's fine :p I don't see why everyone wants starcraft to be super "professional". I enjoyed the casting today it was pretty funny ^.^ The personality and humor of starcraft casters are what I enjoy most about them. This. We`re all gamers and nerds here man. No one that gives a shit about being professional watches starcraft 2 matches online. Its simple man, for esports to become mainstream on the west we need to broadcast quality content. If our casters aren't professional, the general public might not like the showing as much as say....football games and their commentators. I mean they also joke around but it is not as "unprofessional" as what grentorp and incontrol did If going mainstream means Starcraft will be cast by same type of monotonous, cookie-cutter announcers that occupy football, basketball, baseball, etc., then screw mainstream. Go watch some Hockey, those would be the type of commentators doing SC2 in a perfect professional world. Professional is just another word for bland, sanitized, corporate BS. I will take Gretorp and Incontrol over any existing pro sports caster any day. Hell, I do not even know the names of any sports caster, and I am a hardcore MLB fan. They are just sooooo bland. I do however know all the SC2 casters by name. Also, for an example, look at Destiny`s stream. The only reason he gets so many viewers is because he is a potty mouthed brat.
So Joe Buck is bland and boring? Come on now, Joe Buck one of best broadcasters in the business.
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On April 24 2011 14:15 Mailing wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 14:10 TheDesertTiger wrote:On April 24 2011 13:58 kheldorin wrote:On April 24 2011 13:56 Mailing wrote:On April 24 2011 13:54 littlechava wrote:
Holy shit, nice job ret! Missed the games, but contemplating buying a ticket just to see those :D Don't....... they were both really bad :X Yeah, MC was trying out something new and risky and just got pwned. If you're looking for how a Zerg should beat a top level Protoss, these matches aren't the answer. I can't believe what I'm reading from so many people. + Show Spoiler + So it wasn't a Macro win..and Ret didn't have to fight a 4 Gate timing push. The decision making was top notch, and against a top level Protoss. I think any Zerg can learn a thing or two from watching that. They can learn... nothing MCs game 1 build is just not viable at that level of play, ret punished MC and ended the game with the first push essentially (killed a lot of probes) Game 2, Mc was way ahead and let himself be nydused. This is essentially what happened to oGsTOP in GSL1 against fruit dealer, it cost him the game that he should NOT have lost, because he let nydus pop right in his own vision.
I guess thats true if you ignore the rest of the game.+ Show Spoiler + It's not like Ret was showing people that a good use of APM+Zerglings is to buy time for Roaches, or that building a Nydus and sending some Queens to a walled in protoss might be a good idea.
I personally do not share the mindset of focusing purely on a few bad choices instead of the rest of the game. To each their own I guess.
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On April 24 2011 14:20 Mycl wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 13:58 kheldorin wrote:On April 24 2011 13:56 Mailing wrote:On April 24 2011 13:54 littlechava wrote:
Holy shit, nice job ret! Missed the games, but contemplating buying a ticket just to see those :D Don't....... they were both really bad :X Yeah, MC was trying out something new and risky and just got pwned. If you're looking for how a Zerg should beat a top level Protoss, these matches aren't the answer. MC has done expo block into quick expand into Stargate play many times. It was not 'trying something new'. The response from Ret was definitely something rarely seen.
Which match has he done the expo block before? On the other hand, I've seen Nydus with queens a lot of times, though not recently. It was Dimaga and TLO( when he was playing Zerg)
Noone has done a no-sentry expand with 1 cannon vs Zerg before.
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On April 24 2011 14:15 Mailing wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 14:10 TheDesertTiger wrote:On April 24 2011 13:58 kheldorin wrote:On April 24 2011 13:56 Mailing wrote:On April 24 2011 13:54 littlechava wrote:
Holy shit, nice job ret! Missed the games, but contemplating buying a ticket just to see those :D Don't....... they were both really bad :X Yeah, MC was trying out something new and risky and just got pwned. If you're looking for how a Zerg should beat a top level Protoss, these matches aren't the answer. I can't believe what I'm reading from so many people. + Show Spoiler + So it wasn't a Macro win..and Ret didn't have to fight a 4 Gate timing push. The decision making was top notch, and against a top level Protoss. I think any Zerg can learn a thing or two from watching that. They can learn... nothing MCs game 1 build is just not viable at that level of play, ret punished MC and ended the game with the first push essentially (killed a lot of probes) Game 2, Mc was way ahead and let himself be nydused. This is essentially what happened to oGsTOP in GSL1 against fruit dealer, it cost him the game that he should NOT have lost, because he let nydus pop right in his own vision.
If MC didn't think those builds would work he would not have done them. So either MC is an idiot or he takes huge risks that players are starting to learn how to exploit. I favor the latter explanation.
One thing you start to notice after watching him play is that he loves to take risks. Nexus before gate. One gate expand. Forge expand with barely any units. Fake expand into 5 gate. Proxy gate. Proxy cannon. 4 gate rush. Heck, the only "safe" macro build he regularly does is his DT expand build and even that's not as safe as it seems.
MC is great against a player who plays a safe macro game - like Morrow, like Idra, like Kas. This is because his builds are either designed to kill someone doing a greedy macro build or are designed to set him ahead in macro by being greedy. He has a "kill mode" for punishing greed from others and a "greed mode" for punishing safety from others, and switches between the two depending on how he reads the opponent. This is his strength. It is also his weakness. Because not having a safe build means you are vulnerable to all-in builds yourself, and that's the route players are increasingly using to beat him.
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On April 24 2011 14:05 Moonwrath wrote:
Jesus, MC in a free fall recently. Going down left and right.
Was a good toss, born in Korea
loved Zealots and his Sentries too
Was a good Zerg
Crazy bout Hydras
Built Roaches
and some Zerglings too
hahaha, epic Free Fallin' starcraft lyrics 
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honestly, this type of play was totally unexpected considering he's pretty well known for standard play
he's also part of liquid so maybe MC played him before and didn't expect those type of plays or he got intel from others and expected pretty standard games
in any case, he was totally caught off guard both times and it was an easy win for ret from there
you can't play the same safe style every game (especially when you're not even a top player) so hopefully ret mixes it up more in the future
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On April 24 2011 14:20 ImHuko wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 14:02 RajaF wrote:On April 24 2011 13:59 ImHuko wrote:On April 24 2011 13:58 red4ce wrote:On April 24 2011 13:54 yiodee wrote:On April 24 2011 13:49 RajaF wrote:On April 24 2011 13:48 NoobSh1t wrote:On April 24 2011 13:44 TYJ.Aoy wrote:
Incontrol is so condescending towards Gretorp all the time and I don't really think it looks professional even if it's all jokes. Chill it's fine :p I don't see why everyone wants starcraft to be super "professional". I enjoyed the casting today it was pretty funny ^.^ The personality and humor of starcraft casters are what I enjoy most about them. This. We`re all gamers and nerds here man. No one that gives a shit about being professional watches starcraft 2 matches online. Its simple man, for esports to become mainstream on the west we need to broadcast quality content. If our casters aren't professional, the general public might not like the showing as much as say....football games and their commentators. I mean they also joke around but it is not as "unprofessional" as what grentorp and incontrol did If going mainstream means Starcraft will be cast by same type of monotonous, cookie-cutter announcers that occupy football, basketball, baseball, etc., then screw mainstream. Go watch some Hockey, those would be the type of commentators doing SC2 in a perfect professional world. Professional is just another word for bland, sanitized, corporate BS. I will take Gretorp and Incontrol over any existing pro sports caster any day. Hell, I do not even know the names of any sports caster, and I am a hardcore MLB fan. They are just sooooo bland. I do however know all the SC2 casters by name. Also, for an example, look at Destiny`s stream. The only reason he gets so many viewers is because he is a potty mouthed brat. So Joe Buck is bland and boring? Come on now, Joe Buck one of best broadcasters in the business.
Joe Buck? Really? I mean he's great at baseball play-by-play I'll give him that, but in the NFL he just sucks all the joy and excitement out of the game.
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Mc why must you lose, can you stick to standard play that destroys every one in your path?
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On April 24 2011 14:29 red4ce wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 14:20 ImHuko wrote:On April 24 2011 14:02 RajaF wrote:On April 24 2011 13:59 ImHuko wrote:On April 24 2011 13:58 red4ce wrote:On April 24 2011 13:54 yiodee wrote:On April 24 2011 13:49 RajaF wrote:On April 24 2011 13:48 NoobSh1t wrote:On April 24 2011 13:44 TYJ.Aoy wrote:
Incontrol is so condescending towards Gretorp all the time and I don't really think it looks professional even if it's all jokes. Chill it's fine :p I don't see why everyone wants starcraft to be super "professional". I enjoyed the casting today it was pretty funny ^.^ The personality and humor of starcraft casters are what I enjoy most about them. This. We`re all gamers and nerds here man. No one that gives a shit about being professional watches starcraft 2 matches online. Its simple man, for esports to become mainstream on the west we need to broadcast quality content. If our casters aren't professional, the general public might not like the showing as much as say....football games and their commentators. I mean they also joke around but it is not as "unprofessional" as what grentorp and incontrol did If going mainstream means Starcraft will be cast by same type of monotonous, cookie-cutter announcers that occupy football, basketball, baseball, etc., then screw mainstream. Go watch some Hockey, those would be the type of commentators doing SC2 in a perfect professional world. Professional is just another word for bland, sanitized, corporate BS. I will take Gretorp and Incontrol over any existing pro sports caster any day. Hell, I do not even know the names of any sports caster, and I am a hardcore MLB fan. They are just sooooo bland. I do however know all the SC2 casters by name. Also, for an example, look at Destiny`s stream. The only reason he gets so many viewers is because he is a potty mouthed brat. So Joe Buck is bland and boring? Come on now, Joe Buck one of best broadcasters in the business. Joe Buck? Really? I mean he's great at baseball play-by-play I'll give him that, but in the NFL he just sucks all the joy and excitement out of the game.
I hope the original comment was going for sarcasm... but people like Gus Johnson take games to the next level in excitement, which to be honest not a whole lot of shoutcasters can do right now in SC.
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On April 24 2011 14:26 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 14:15 Mailing wrote:On April 24 2011 14:10 TheDesertTiger wrote:On April 24 2011 13:58 kheldorin wrote:On April 24 2011 13:56 Mailing wrote:On April 24 2011 13:54 littlechava wrote:
Holy shit, nice job ret! Missed the games, but contemplating buying a ticket just to see those :D Don't....... they were both really bad :X Yeah, MC was trying out something new and risky and just got pwned. If you're looking for how a Zerg should beat a top level Protoss, these matches aren't the answer. I can't believe what I'm reading from so many people. + Show Spoiler + So it wasn't a Macro win..and Ret didn't have to fight a 4 Gate timing push. The decision making was top notch, and against a top level Protoss. I think any Zerg can learn a thing or two from watching that. They can learn... nothing MCs game 1 build is just not viable at that level of play, ret punished MC and ended the game with the first push essentially (killed a lot of probes) Game 2, Mc was way ahead and let himself be nydused. This is essentially what happened to oGsTOP in GSL1 against fruit dealer, it cost him the game that he should NOT have lost, because he let nydus pop right in his own vision. If MC didn't think those builds would work he would not have done them. So either MC is an idiot or he takes huge risks that players are starting to learn how to exploit. I favor the latter explanation. One thing you start to notice after watching him play is that he loves to take risks. Nexus before gate. One gate expand. Forge expand with barely any units. Fake expand into 5 gate. Proxy gate. Proxy cannon. 4 gate rush. Heck, the only "safe" macro build he regularly does is his DT expand build and even that's not as safe as it seems. MC is great against a player who plays a safe macro game - like Morrow, like Idra, like Kas. This is because his builds are either designed to kill someone doing a greedy macro build or are designed to set him ahead in macro by being greedy. He has a "kill mode" for punishing greed from others and a "greed mode" for punishing safety from others, and switches between the two depending on how he reads the opponent. This is his strength. It is also his weakness. Because not having a safe build means you are vulnerable to all-in builds yourself, and that's the route players are increasingly using to beat him.
I think you're forgetting all the times where he does play safe especially against JulyZerg which MC beat thrice. If you don't play safe against JulyZerg, you're gonna lose. You might be over-analyzing this and thus seeing things you want to see. He mixes in his safe builds along with his risky builds but people tend to remember the latter ones because of what Tyler said.
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On April 24 2011 14:26 mierin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 14:05 Moonwrath wrote:
Jesus, MC in a free fall recently. Going down left and right. Was a good toss, born in Korea loved Zealots and his Sentries too Was a good Zerg Crazy bout Hydras Built Roaches and some Zerglings too hahaha, epic Free Fallin' starcraft lyrics
I can hear Tom Petty singing it now
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Grats to Ret!
Sorry, Bratok 
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On April 24 2011 14:05 Moonwrath wrote:
Jesus, MC in a free fall recently. Going down left and right.
+ Show Spoiler +wins copenhagen drops 1 game TOTAL, loses by being greedy and to a nydus, OBVIOUS FREE FALL
honestly, people are so reactive. statements like this are ridiculous.
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SC2 competitive scene is going to grow by appealing to it's demographic, not by trying to mimic NFL and other professional sport broadcasts. Anyway, there are commentators even in huge sports that say things that rub some people the wrong way (Charles Barkley, who I love, comes to mind). Like has been stated, it's not as if they're obscene or vulgar in any way. Banter can be good, especially in more dull moments of the game. I happen to think Gretorp and Incontrol have been great lately.
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Wow had to miss watching tonight live, off to vods to see what could be considered a huge upset.
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On April 24 2011 14:20 ImHuko wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 14:02 RajaF wrote:On April 24 2011 13:59 ImHuko wrote:On April 24 2011 13:58 red4ce wrote:On April 24 2011 13:54 yiodee wrote:On April 24 2011 13:49 RajaF wrote:On April 24 2011 13:48 NoobSh1t wrote:On April 24 2011 13:44 TYJ.Aoy wrote:
Incontrol is so condescending towards Gretorp all the time and I don't really think it looks professional even if it's all jokes. Chill it's fine :p I don't see why everyone wants starcraft to be super "professional". I enjoyed the casting today it was pretty funny ^.^ The personality and humor of starcraft casters are what I enjoy most about them. This. We`re all gamers and nerds here man. No one that gives a shit about being professional watches starcraft 2 matches online. Its simple man, for esports to become mainstream on the west we need to broadcast quality content. If our casters aren't professional, the general public might not like the showing as much as say....football games and their commentators. I mean they also joke around but it is not as "unprofessional" as what grentorp and incontrol did If going mainstream means Starcraft will be cast by same type of monotonous, cookie-cutter announcers that occupy football, basketball, baseball, etc., then screw mainstream. Go watch some Hockey, those would be the type of commentators doing SC2 in a perfect professional world. Professional is just another word for bland, sanitized, corporate BS. I will take Gretorp and Incontrol over any existing pro sports caster any day. Hell, I do not even know the names of any sports caster, and I am a hardcore MLB fan. They are just sooooo bland. I do however know all the SC2 casters by name. Also, for an example, look at Destiny`s stream. The only reason he gets so many viewers is because he is a potty mouthed brat. So Joe Buck is bland and boring? Come on now, Joe Buck one of best broadcasters in the business.
joe buck is awful and everyone knows it
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Kruk & Kuiper for the SF Giants are pretty good. (actually have personality.)
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On April 24 2011 14:20 ImHuko wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 14:02 RajaF wrote:On April 24 2011 13:59 ImHuko wrote:On April 24 2011 13:58 red4ce wrote:On April 24 2011 13:54 yiodee wrote:On April 24 2011 13:49 RajaF wrote:On April 24 2011 13:48 NoobSh1t wrote:On April 24 2011 13:44 TYJ.Aoy wrote:
Incontrol is so condescending towards Gretorp all the time and I don't really think it looks professional even if it's all jokes. Chill it's fine :p I don't see why everyone wants starcraft to be super "professional". I enjoyed the casting today it was pretty funny ^.^ The personality and humor of starcraft casters are what I enjoy most about them. This. We`re all gamers and nerds here man. No one that gives a shit about being professional watches starcraft 2 matches online. Its simple man, for esports to become mainstream on the west we need to broadcast quality content. If our casters aren't professional, the general public might not like the showing as much as say....football games and their commentators. I mean they also joke around but it is not as "unprofessional" as what grentorp and incontrol did If going mainstream means Starcraft will be cast by same type of monotonous, cookie-cutter announcers that occupy football, basketball, baseball, etc., then screw mainstream. Go watch some Hockey, those would be the type of commentators doing SC2 in a perfect professional world. Professional is just another word for bland, sanitized, corporate BS. I will take Gretorp and Incontrol over any existing pro sports caster any day. Hell, I do not even know the names of any sports caster, and I am a hardcore MLB fan. They are just sooooo bland. I do however know all the SC2 casters by name. Also, for an example, look at Destiny`s stream. The only reason he gets so many viewers is because he is a potty mouthed brat. So Joe Buck is bland and boring? Come on now, Joe Buck one of best broadcasters in the business.
LOL. You can't be serious, hahaha. He is awful, when David Tyree completed the helmet catch, Buck was like..."Complete...for 32 yards and a first down."
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Great MC takedown play tonight. I dont think Ret is that good really, but I have to admit is cheese was totally birlliant tonight!
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Interesting results today :o Need to watch the rebroadcast ^^
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EPT
