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[NASL] Day 2-4 - Page 50

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 48 49 50 51 52 Next
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45162 Posts
April 24 2011 07:08 GMT
#981
Ret... who's been playing poorly overall recently... beat MC? Damn.

The two people who I expected to win easily were Select and MC.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
LwReisen
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia94 Posts
April 24 2011 07:31 GMT
#982
oh look
MC doesnt 3gate expand OR 4gate
MC loses 0-2
MORDEKAIZER ES #1
Grantiere
Profile Joined March 2011
United States129 Posts
April 24 2011 07:53 GMT
#983
You know, when Incontrol was in the Copenhagen Games thread saying how Ret would beat Grubby 100 times in 100 best of 5s, I pretty much knew Ret had taken out MC in NASL.
jmbthirteen
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States10734 Posts
April 24 2011 08:10 GMT
#984
On April 24 2011 16:53 Grantiere wrote:
You know, when Incontrol was in the Copenhagen Games thread saying how Ret would beat Grubby 100 times in 100 best of 5s, I pretty much knew Ret had taken out MC in NASL.

Ret is a much more experienced sc2 player than Grubby. He's been training in Korea for awhile. Regardless of his NASL match against MC, he should be Grubby every time in a best of 5 series. He is a better player.
www.superbeerbrothers.com
Grantiere
Profile Joined March 2011
United States129 Posts
April 24 2011 08:17 GMT
#985
On April 24 2011 17:10 jmbthirteen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2011 16:53 Grantiere wrote:
You know, when Incontrol was in the Copenhagen Games thread saying how Ret would beat Grubby 100 times in 100 best of 5s, I pretty much knew Ret had taken out MC in NASL.

Ret is a much more experienced sc2 player than Grubby. He's been training in Korea for awhile. Regardless of his NASL match against MC, he should be Grubby every time in a best of 5 series. He is a better player.


Understood. Still, he's had some unusually bad sets recently since he returned and some questions on his form / dedication. Incontrol, who knows better than random dudes on the internet, basically comes out strong to refute it - implying that he does know better. And he did. Partly because he cast the MC / Ret games. Maybe it's coincidence, but it's less likely that he would have made such a strong statement if MC had rolled Ret in the NASL match.
Nifel
Profile Joined June 2010
706 Posts
April 24 2011 08:17 GMT
#986
Woha holy shit. Ret crushing MC? This has been an interesting weekend.
Beyonder
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Netherlands15103 Posts
April 24 2011 08:25 GMT
#987
On April 24 2011 17:17 Grantiere wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2011 17:10 jmbthirteen wrote:
On April 24 2011 16:53 Grantiere wrote:
You know, when Incontrol was in the Copenhagen Games thread saying how Ret would beat Grubby 100 times in 100 best of 5s, I pretty much knew Ret had taken out MC in NASL.

Ret is a much more experienced sc2 player than Grubby. He's been training in Korea for awhile. Regardless of his NASL match against MC, he should be Grubby every time in a best of 5 series. He is a better player.


Understood. Still, he's had some unusually bad sets recently since he returned and some questions on his form / dedication. Incontrol, who knows better than random dudes on the internet, basically comes out strong to refute it - implying that he does know better. And he did. Partly because he cast the MC / Ret games. Maybe it's coincidence, but it's less likely that he would have made such a strong statement if MC had rolled Ret in the NASL match.

Grubby and ret practice together on a regular basis afaik, e.g. for the Grubby versus Moon match. I guess he just knows the results of the practice games ^_^
Moderator
.Enigma.
Profile Joined January 2011
Sweden1461 Posts
April 24 2011 08:28 GMT
#988
On April 24 2011 11:45 XothermeK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2011 11:42 udgnim wrote:
On April 24 2011 11:41 XothermeK wrote:
Fungal seems to be an overkill of an ability it seems, I don't think it should be able to ANNIHILATE an army from fungal, I thought Banelings did that job.... something doesn't seem right to see 20 marines not being able to be microed out while fungaled and die.


ghosts counter infestors


That's easy to say but what the fact is, even after the ghost nerf, it's too hard to get into range and emp even with cloak on, you've got overseers around + fungal also reveals cloaked units, and once infestors, broodlords, and corruptors come into play, its over, corruptors can start corrupting units and make them take +20% damage and the fungal damages armored units +30% damage, and thats another overkill factor, I've had alot of trouble lately against this composition in late macro games vs Zergs.


So I just need that composition for the game to be over? Niiiice.
"Jupiters c*ck!" - Quintus Lentulus Batiatus
RifleCow
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada637 Posts
April 24 2011 08:50 GMT
#989
On April 24 2011 14:44 kheldorin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2011 14:26 Azarkon wrote:
On April 24 2011 14:15 Mailing wrote:
On April 24 2011 14:10 TheDesertTiger wrote:
On April 24 2011 13:58 kheldorin wrote:
On April 24 2011 13:56 Mailing wrote:
On April 24 2011 13:54 littlechava wrote:
Holy shit, nice job ret! Missed the games, but contemplating buying a ticket just to see those :D


Don't....... they were both really bad :X


Yeah, MC was trying out something new and risky and just got pwned. If you're looking for how a Zerg should beat a top level Protoss, these matches aren't the answer.


I can't believe what I'm reading from so many people.+ Show Spoiler +
So it wasn't a Macro win..and Ret didn't have to fight a 4 Gate timing push. The decision making was top notch, and against a top level Protoss.
I think any Zerg can learn a thing or two from watching that.


They can learn... nothing

MCs game 1 build is just not viable at that level of play, ret punished MC and ended the game with the first push essentially (killed a lot of probes)

Game 2, Mc was way ahead and let himself be nydused. This is essentially what happened to oGsTOP in GSL1 against fruit dealer, it cost him the game that he should NOT have lost, because he let nydus pop right in his own vision.


If MC didn't think those builds would work he would not have done them. So either MC is an idiot or he takes huge risks that players are starting to learn how to exploit. I favor the latter explanation.

One thing you start to notice after watching him play is that he loves to take risks. Nexus before gate. One gate expand. Forge expand with barely any units. Fake expand into 5 gate. Proxy gate. Proxy cannon. 4 gate rush. Heck, the only "safe" macro build he regularly does is his DT expand build and even that's not as safe as it seems.

MC is great against a player who plays a safe macro game - like Morrow, like Idra, like Kas. This is because his builds are either designed to kill someone doing a greedy macro build or are designed to set him ahead in macro by being greedy. He has a "kill mode" for punishing greed from others and a "greed mode" for punishing safety from others, and switches between the two depending on how he reads the opponent. This is his strength. It is also his weakness. Because not having a safe build means you are vulnerable to all-in builds yourself, and that's the route players are increasingly using to beat him.


I think you're forgetting all the times where he does play safe especially against JulyZerg which MC beat thrice. If you don't play safe against JulyZerg, you're gonna lose. You might be over-analyzing this and thus seeing things you want to see. He mixes in his safe builds along with his risky builds but people tend to remember the latter ones because of what Tyler said.


What are you talking about, his series against july was 90% all-ins. The first game was a 4 gate nexus cancel. And then the next few were all various warpgate timings. If that isn't risking, I don't know what is. In fact, july played some funky fast hydra builds which get absolutely demolished by warpgate timings. I don't know what series you were watching....
hohoho
Trowa127
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom1230 Posts
April 24 2011 09:05 GMT
#990
On April 24 2011 16:31 LwReisen wrote:
oh look
MC doesnt 3gate expand OR 4gate
MC loses 0-2


Someone please ban this guy, he is trolling the TSL thread as well.
Bling, MC, Snute, HwangSin, Deranging (<3) fan. 'Full name - ESP ORTS' Vote hotbid. Vote ESPORTS.
Pekkz
Profile Joined June 2009
Norway1505 Posts
April 24 2011 09:08 GMT
#991
NASL Vods is so damn retarded. Really wanted to watch Ret vs MC now, but what I saw on the vod page , unavoidable not to see it : "And Ret made a statement, HELL YEAH ". Thanks for spoiling me by having comments RIGHT NEXT to the fucking vod.

Also your vods loads slow as hell.
gnutz
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany666 Posts
April 24 2011 09:19 GMT
#992
Everytime a Protoss player doesn't play "standard" they can lose.

But it seems like all Protoss players play at least one game non-standard in a bo3.

There must be something in the water what prevents Protosses to play safe and win everytime against Zergs ....
or do they know something Zerg players don't know?
JayDee_
Profile Joined June 2010
548 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-24 09:37:36
April 24 2011 09:31 GMT
#993
MC played really bad compared to how he normally plays imo. Props to ret. He played well. Weird series though.
hugman
Profile Joined June 2009
Sweden4644 Posts
April 24 2011 10:32 GMT
#994
Is there a summary of the Ret vs MC games anywhere?
Cripp
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany165 Posts
April 24 2011 10:39 GMT
#995
Don't worry fellow Protoss players, if MC doesn't win the NASL, NaNiwa will for sure with ease.
Hokay
Profile Joined May 2007
United States738 Posts
April 24 2011 10:49 GMT
#996
Mc played really off. I can't believe the decisions he made in both games and how he let zerglings run inside his base. Totally uncharacteristic but he's been doing dumb shit lately. I blame his new girlfriend for the slump.
Pekkz
Profile Joined June 2009
Norway1505 Posts
April 24 2011 11:54 GMT
#997
On April 24 2011 19:49 Hokay wrote:
Mc played really off. I can't believe the decisions he made in both games and how he let zerglings run inside his base. Totally uncharacteristic but he's been doing dumb shit lately. I blame his new girlfriend for the slump.


Slump? Yeah 4-0 Kas in the finals of Copenhagen games. His slumping so hard...
OnlineHero
Profile Joined February 2011
Denmark647 Posts
April 24 2011 12:05 GMT
#998
On April 24 2011 20:54 Pekkz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2011 19:49 Hokay wrote:
Mc played really off. I can't believe the decisions he made in both games and how he let zerglings run inside his base. Totally uncharacteristic but he's been doing dumb shit lately. I blame his new girlfriend for the slump.


Slump? Yeah 4-0 Kas in the finals of Copenhagen games. His slumping so hard...


+ Show Spoiler +
Because of MC's succes, losing 3 out of 4 best of series all in one week will make people say such things.

0-2 vs. Polt to go to up/down matches in the GSL
2-3 vs. ThorZain in the TSL
0-2 vs. Ret in the NASL
4-0 vs. Kas in the Copenhagen LAN


Might be a bit of a slump, he is still scary though.
<3
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
April 24 2011 12:08 GMT
#999
Wow, nice that Ret won. Isn't he the first zerg to win a serie against MC in a tourney since the first MC's GSL win ?
I'll make sure to watch the euro stream tonight as I missed the us one
Piski
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Finland3461 Posts
April 24 2011 12:15 GMT
#1000
On April 24 2011 16:31 LwReisen wrote:
oh look
MC doesnt 3gate expand OR 4gate
MC loses 0-2


Tbh I don't understand this post.

4gate is pretty much an all-in so you could be saying that "unless MC doesn't do something cheesy he loses".
But then you also say 3gate expand which is a safe long economic macro game opening :o

So MC can't win unless he goes to a longer macro game or all-ins early on. What other options is there?

Besides Forge FE, 3gate expand is pretty much the only safe expand opening for protoss.
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