EPT[GSL WC] Ro16 Day 2 - Page 146
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MechKing
United States3004 Posts
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Sadist
United States7255 Posts
This is the entire basis of me going mech, it lets you control space and its pretty good. Really fast phoenix builds are kinda sketchy and well timed carriers but thats about it. | ||
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Doraemon.doraemon
United States335 Posts
both are great players though, they'll bounce back! fighting! | ||
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CheeseGrater
United States290 Posts
On April 01 2011 02:34 Yunarc wrote: Dimaga and TT1 have looked the best out of the foreigners. I think Dimaga has a better chance to win though because TT1 has been sick. I can't help but think you say this because they won lol | ||
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elementz
United States281 Posts
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PikaXchU
Singapore379 Posts
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
On April 01 2011 02:44 PikaXchU wrote: Protoss probably feels overpowered because of the sick deathballs they can create. The deathball from Protoss is sick probably because of the Colossus's insane range and unlike the siege tank, it fires are a faster rate and can move. But SC2 is still a new game, so give it time for people to figure the deathball out. It's like the SCBW Terran deathball. Except it's mobile, can warp in anywhere, and can walk up cliffs! IMO a nice solution would be to make forcefields attackable with like 50 HP or something. Toss is just way too safe with forcefields - look at MVP vs Genius (Or Alicia? One or the other) in the GSL Up and Downs, the Protoss player proxies a robo, it completes and is discovered without it doing ANY damage. But even then his fast expand is much more safe than MVP's, who can't punish the fast expand after failed proxy because his army would get split and killed. | ||
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Roaches
Denmark152 Posts
On April 01 2011 00:17 fant0m wrote: Poor Jinro.  I know it's TvP and really hard to win, but I really want you to snap out of it and jinroll those gateway spamming nubs! Practice TvP exclusively for the next tournament, that's the only matchup I've seen you lose since MarineKing in January! He lost to MorroW in TSL3 just recently. | ||
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cordlc
United States360 Posts
On April 01 2011 02:35 Sadist wrote: How did jinro play bad game 2? I mean what could have done against that with his build? Its not like he can just magically produce vikings out of nowhere. You need to 4 rax when you 1 rax cc. Terran cannot afford to tech AND expand vs protoss without some sort of tank/mech build without leaving themselves open to some 5-6 gate attack/4gate/dt rush/3 gate voidray/etc. If you defend too hard you lose the entire point of having the quick expansion and the protoss just expands and is ahead of you and rolls you. This is the entire basis of me going mech, it lets you control space and its pretty good. Really fast phoenix builds are kinda sketchy and well timed carriers but thats about it. If you watch game 2, you'd notice there was a point in time where Jinro had about 15 marines and a Marauder, and Anypro had maybe 2 sentries and stalkers. That was his timing window, playing passively allowed Anypro to beeline straight towards Colossus, guaranteed loss from there. I was never a fan of no-gas fast expansion builds against Protoss, ever since Jinro was crushed by MC way back in GSL3, I've felt it has too many weaknesses. It's crushed outright by voidray zealot / 4gate sentry way too often. The proceeding transition into bio dies to the dreaded forcefield push (before stim), while an earlier mech transition leaves you with not enough for early warpgate pressure. My favorite build is something that uses marauders/conc shell, straight into expo and tanks. You take map control momentarily, denying scouting for a while and clearing the map of any hidden probes/pylons. Good example is set 1 of Alicia vs Supernova http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors2/vod/62461 | ||
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elementz
United States281 Posts
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GwSC
United States1997 Posts
Well, Dimaga Fighting!!! ..and I guess TT1. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On April 01 2011 02:37 CheeseGrater wrote: I can't help but think you say this because they won lol Well wouldn't them winning, not only this round, but in the team challenge, factor in heavily to them looking the best? Which foreigner has looked better? White-Ra looked good too, but he didn't advance (damn PvP) | ||
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Sadist
United States7255 Posts
On April 01 2011 03:03 cordlc wrote: If you watch game 2, you'd notice there was a point in time where Jinro had about 15 marines and a Marauder, and Anypro had maybe 2 sentries and stalkers. That was his timing window, playing passively allowed Anypro to beeline straight towards Colossus, guaranteed loss from there. I was never a fan of no-gas fast expansion builds against Protoss, ever since Jinro was crushed by MC way back in GSL3, I've felt it has too many weaknesses. It's crushed outright by voidray zealot / 4gate sentry way too often. The proceeding transition into bio dies to the dreaded forcefield push (before stim), while an earlier mech transition leaves you with not enough for early warpgate pressure. My favorite build is something that uses marauders/conc shell, straight into expo and tanks. You take map control momentarily, denying scouting for a while and clearing the map of any hidden probes/pylons. Good example is set 1 of Alicia vs Supernova http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors2/vod/62461 Problem is you dont know what the protoss is doing, he saw 2 gateway robo expand. he could add 4 gates and make an immortal or something and if you try to attack there you get absolutely crushed and game is over. Or if he has 3 gateways you just split half the marines and warp in stalkers and maybe have an immortal and again hes owned. Its so risky to attack early vs P. | ||
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skrzmark
United States1528 Posts
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
The only solution I've found while laddering and have seen good terran players do to win against T (and has been suggested in this thread as well), is just to do timing attacks before late game happens, and pray that some stupid amount of force fields aren't waiting for you to choke you out until they're deathball is complete. But more on topic, I hope Jinro bounces back from this, he's been in a slump, and his reaction to the loss is pretty sad for me to see, i feel like I can feel his pain and is hating himself for it. We <3 you Jinro, we believe! for now, Dimaga FIGHTING! | ||
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CCa1ss1e
Canada3231 Posts
great job to everyone! | ||
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vectorix108
United States4633 Posts
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FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
On April 01 2011 02:36 Doraemon.doraemon wrote: doh, sen and jinro kinda choked today... games weren't that close both are great players though, they'll bounce back! fighting! Ehh... Sen was doing some pretty good things, I wouldn't say he really "choked" unless perhaps my interpretation of "choke" is a bit different | ||
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Flat Zerg
United States16 Posts
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MESeidel
Germany326 Posts
On April 01 2011 02:35 Sadist wrote: Problem is you dont know what the protoss is doing, he saw 2 gateway robo expand. he could add 4 gates and make an immortal or something and if you try to attack there you get absolutely crushed and game is over. Or if he has 3 gateways you just split half the marines and warp in stalkers and maybe have an immortal and again hes owned. Its so risky to attack early vs P. How can you not know it? scout the front with an scv or marine --> cost you 50min and might show you everything. scan costs you 400 mins (or something the mule is equivalent) --> you see everything except maybe hidden buildings Even if you fear hidden buildings like a DT tech, a combined scan and front scout should show you the army and most of the tech so that you can estimate if he did spend all his money on what you seen. Also you could try to drop and not only pick up a pylon but also see the base and most or all of his army by that. On April 01 2011 02:42 elementz wrote: just seams that P is OP in both match ups, while ZvT is very good and fun to watch as evident by Dimaga vS MvP, however toss has so many options in their hands to counter anything that comes their way or even when one is not attacking them, sit in base make your deathball or just make insane push to punish them when they try to counter you by macroing crazy. Just doesn't look healthy. It's only the deathball that is really strong. With that Protoss is defensibly building up all game long. And FF often is only a way to not die at the moment. But wih the deathball Toss is also very slow. Toss needs FF to hold vs. MM, 1-3 base Roach, Hydra on close posi, Thor+X, .... And deathball build up is weak to drops, Nydus, Muta, ..... Check the 2nd game Idra Cruncher from last weeks TSL. Stargate and HT build are ab it different story. But they also aren't strong in th eearly to mid game. Basicly it is a very often timed push or a build up to a great unit composition for Protoss. Midgame you can right crush it, out-macro it or at least use your mobility advantage. | ||
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