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On April 01 2011 14:13 LuciferSC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 13:39 slyboogie wrote:While MKP's actions lacked the grace of: + Show Spoiler +It is still interesting to see sports become a platform for political expression. I'm an American and in America, I understand their is a small distaste for athletes that express their politics overtly, unless they've really earned it i.e. Jim Brown, Muhammed Ali, Curt Schilling(I guess...) As a nation, I think we like to think that sports should transcend "petty" politics, I tend to disagree and it's nice to see a player express his political beliefs. As someone who has undergrad background in Kinesiology, and because we also studied sports politics, sports economics, etc on top of the regular Kinesiology stuff, I can tell u that politics in sports is nothing new. IMO it is not wrong to have politics in sports. No one can deny that economy plays a big part in sport. For one, sports wield millions, if not billions of dollars. With economy, comes politics. Simple as that. With that said, it should be done in a tasteful manner that can be accepted by the public. Other than that, no one can really draw a line and say 'sports (sports figures) absolutely cannot cross this line'.
Yeah, I am currently pursuing a graduate degree in HIstory, so I know where you are coming from. And I totally agree. Do you feel that MKP was tasteful? What about Tommie Smith and John Carlos?
Mods: I hope this discussion is ok, I think there may be another thread for it?
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There are many ways for a player to reach their fans to express their points of view and ask for support for some issue.
Hijacking the gsl, even if only for a mere couple of seconds is not tasteful.
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On April 01 2011 15:13 macil22 wrote:
There are many ways for a player to reach their fans to express their points of view and ask for support for some issue.
Hijacking the gsl, even if only for a mere couple of seconds is not tasteful.
hardly a hijacking. the gamers were encouraged to show their support. the gomtv broadcasters were in on it as well.
it's not like when someone uses their Academy award acceptance speech time to speak out against the war.
again, do some research about the issue before talking shit.
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On April 01 2011 15:10 slyboogie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 14:13 LuciferSC wrote:On April 01 2011 13:39 slyboogie wrote:While MKP's actions lacked the grace of: + Show Spoiler +It is still interesting to see sports become a platform for political expression. I'm an American and in America, I understand their is a small distaste for athletes that express their politics overtly, unless they've really earned it i.e. Jim Brown, Muhammed Ali, Curt Schilling(I guess...) As a nation, I think we like to think that sports should transcend "petty" politics, I tend to disagree and it's nice to see a player express his political beliefs. As someone who has undergrad background in Kinesiology, and because we also studied sports politics, sports economics, etc on top of the regular Kinesiology stuff, I can tell u that politics in sports is nothing new. IMO it is not wrong to have politics in sports. No one can deny that economy plays a big part in sport. For one, sports wield millions, if not billions of dollars. With economy, comes politics. Simple as that. With that said, it should be done in a tasteful manner that can be accepted by the public. Other than that, no one can really draw a line and say 'sports (sports figures) absolutely cannot cross this line'. Yeah, I am currently pursuing a graduate degree in HIstory, so I know where you are coming from. And I totally agree. Do you feel that MKP was tasteful? What about Tommie Smith and John Carlos? Mods: I hope this discussion is ok, I think there may be another thread for it?
Well personally I believe there definitely are better ways of doing it.
But as to whether I support MKP's action, well that's pretty hard to answer.
To be frank with ya, I have conflict of interest, as I am Korean Canadian.
Speaking strictly from sports level, I'd have to say it wasn't fair for MKP to do that, as regardless of the topic he brought up, he is attempting to steal the light.
(a similar analogy would be like someone bringing up his recent deceased family member at a friend's wedding)
But I don't think I would right down condemn it either. While it ain't like I did a thorough research to have a thorough understanding of the situation, but all the facts are in Korea's favor. (I admit possible bias) On top of that, I believe Japan has been getting the upper hand in spreading the news in their favor. (with their superior economy/political stance)
Timing and location wise, I do not know whether to support or condemn the action.
The decision would be personal, obviously, and therefore it'd be interesting to find out what others think of it. (esp. from the non-Koreans)
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Does anyone know the 2nd song that is played in the MC vs Morrow game? it's played in a few other matches as well.
Cant seem to figure out the words with tastosis talking
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On April 01 2011 15:25 LuciferSC wrote:
Well personally I believe there definitely are better ways of doing it.
But as to whether I support MKP's action, well that's pretty hard to answer.
To be frank with ya, I have conflict of interest, as I am Korean Canadian.
Sure, obvious conflict there.
On April 01 2011 15:25 LuciferSC wrote:
Speaking strictly from sports level, I'd have to say it wasn't fair for MKP to do that, as regardless of the topic he brought up, he is attempting to steal the light.
(a similar analogy would be like someone bringing up his recent deceased family member at a friend's wedding)
I disagree! We watched the GSL to watch MKP, at least to watch him play. He is the object of our attention, unlike the wedding example, where the friend has rights to the attention. I would say, it's more like going to a concert where the performer say, "F@ck Bush!" or something. I didn't go to see his politics, just his music, but there it was. Still it was him delivering it. Dunno if you find that convincing.
Anyways, a lot of people despised Cassius Clay for dodging the draft and a lot of people hated the Olympic sprinters for their Black Power salute. But they were captive to their convictions and they did what they felt was right.
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On April 01 2011 15:32 slyboogie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 15:25 LuciferSC wrote:
Well personally I believe there definitely are better ways of doing it.
But as to whether I support MKP's action, well that's pretty hard to answer.
To be frank with ya, I have conflict of interest, as I am Korean Canadian. Sure, obvious conflict there. Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 15:25 LuciferSC wrote:
Speaking strictly from sports level, I'd have to say it wasn't fair for MKP to do that, as regardless of the topic he brought up, he is attempting to steal the light.
(a similar analogy would be like someone bringing up his recent deceased family member at a friend's wedding) I disagree! We watched the GSL to watch MKP, at least to watch him play. He is the object of our attention, unlike the wedding example, where the friend has rights to the attention. I would say, it's more like going to a concert where the performer say, "F@ck Bush!" or something. I didn't go to see his politics, just his music, but there it was. Still it was him delivering it. Dunno if you find that convincing. Anyways, a lot of people despised Cassius Clay for dodging the draft and a lot of people hated the Olympic sprinters for their Black Power salute. But they were captive to their convictions and they did what they felt was right.
U definitely got me there. That was a bad analogy. lol
Well I guess there's things to gain and loss with everything.
Generally speaking, the more u gain, more u have to lose as well I suppose.
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Thank you, wasn't aware of that post, and apologies for further bringing up the topic here.
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On April 01 2011 15:25 eggs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 15:13 macil22 wrote:
There are many ways for a player to reach their fans to express their points of view and ask for support for some issue.
Hijacking the gsl, even if only for a mere couple of seconds is not tasteful. hardly a hijacking. the gamers were encouraged to show their support. the gomtv broadcasters were in on it as well. it's not like when someone uses their Academy award acceptance speech time to speak out against the war. again, do some research about the issue before talking shit.
lol do some research before I talk shit?
How did I talk shit? I didn't offer an opinion on the issue.
If the gamers were encouraged to show support for the issue then that reflects very poorly on gom. Also if that is the case then why was mkp the only one? In any case I have no problem with actors, athletes, musicians and gamers using whatever amount of fame they happen to have to promote their causes. I do have a problem with the venue. If I buy a season ticket for the next gsl, I will do so in order to watch mkp micro his marines, not to hear his 17 year old opinion that was almost certainly drilled into his head by his parents and government.
The thing is though all you people keep talking about retarded shit like emotions, and "knowing about the issue", and even worse you have to be an actual Korean to know what it is about. None of that is relevant. If you want to start having people use the athletic fields/stages/booths or whatever to express their personal opinions on political issues then you are opening up a huge can of worms.
And since the gsl is supposed to be a global tournament, what if one of the players did happen to be from Japan. Would it have been appropriate if that hypothetical player followed up with a sign of their own saying the island belongs to Japan?
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On April 01 2011 11:43 zor.au wrote:
LOL i dont know about you guys but wearing shades in doors is annoying as f@#$.
Hehe, indeed. When I saw he was keeping them on I knew he was going to lose. Maybe it's just me, but I equate it to a wrong game mentality. Didn't seem logical to think he did it because of stage lights or anything
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On April 01 2011 15:49 macil22 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 15:25 eggs wrote:On April 01 2011 15:13 macil22 wrote:
There are many ways for a player to reach their fans to express their points of view and ask for support for some issue.
Hijacking the gsl, even if only for a mere couple of seconds is not tasteful. hardly a hijacking. the gamers were encouraged to show their support. the gomtv broadcasters were in on it as well. it's not like when someone uses their Academy award acceptance speech time to speak out against the war. again, do some research about the issue before talking shit. lol do some research before I talk shit? How did I talk shit? I didn't offer an opinion on the issue. If the gamers were encouraged to show support for the issue then that reflects very poorly on gom. Also if that is the case then why was mkp the only one? In any case I have no problem with actors, athletes, musicians and gamers using whatever amount of fame they happen to have to promote their causes. I do have a problem with the venue. If I buy a season ticket for the next gsl, I will do so in order to watch mkp micro his marines, not to hear his 17 year old opinion that was almost certainly drilled into his head by his parents and government. The thing is though all you people keep talking about retarded shit like emotions, and "knowing about the issue", and even worse you have to be an actual Korean to know what it is about. None of that is relevant. If you want to start having people use the athletic fields/stages/booths or whatever to express their personal opinions on political issues then you are opening up a huge can of worms. And since the gsl is supposed to be a global tournament, what if one of the players did happen to be from Japan. Would it have been appropriate if that hypothetical player followed up with a sign of their own saying the island belongs to Japan?
if you don't talk shit, you reason shit.
There were 3 main points in your post.
1) if gamers were encouraged to show support for the issue, shame on gom: this is not true. gom has no official policy regarding player ceremony
2) you have problem with political statements in a venue such as gsl: you watch gsl under the agreement that you are accepting to watch what the gsl is offering, which includes player ceremonies with regards to which gsl has no official stance. if you don't like it, don't watch.
3) You assume that wanting to have people use brief public exposure to express personal opinions on political issues is opening up a huge can of worms: we aren't advocating this. but that doesn't mean we condemn it either. we can just respect the political truth mkp displayed in his ceremony. I hope you realize mkp deliberately made that political statement at this tournament and in english for a reason: because this is an international tournament where many foreigners are watching. he's trying to increase awareness for a reason since foreign governments who know dokdo is korean refuse to condemn japan since japan is a strong country with much economic/political capital. None of the discussion in these forums is advocating for "wanting to start having ppl use....to express their personal opinions on political issues". Don't twist our words so that you can use arguments against us.
I can understand that too much politicization of a gaming event can be troubling like you said. But mkp's case is a single case tailored to the fact that this is a world tournament. this is not going to encourage every krn progamer to make a ceremony about dokdo after each fucking game. this will not politicize and jeopardize the gsl as a major gaming event. stop thinking in extremes.
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it's sad b/c if foreigners had won, this whole mkp incident wouldn't have even been an issue at all. but since foreigners lost and people are bitter, they've got nothing better to do but pick on mkp just so they can feel good about themselves and foreigners losing badly to koreans that day.
of course ppl here would backlash, saying this has nothing related to foreigners losing, that they are genuinely concerned with this matter. hah yeah right.
this is such a minor insignificant incident, even moreso to you guys who don't give a shit about korea/japan relations and their history.
god damn.
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On April 01 2011 15:49 macil22 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2011 15:25 eggs wrote:On April 01 2011 15:13 macil22 wrote:
There are many ways for a player to reach their fans to express their points of view and ask for support for some issue.
Hijacking the gsl, even if only for a mere couple of seconds is not tasteful. hardly a hijacking. the gamers were encouraged to show their support. the gomtv broadcasters were in on it as well. it's not like when someone uses their Academy award acceptance speech time to speak out against the war. again, do some research about the issue before talking shit. lol do some research before I talk shit? How did I talk shit? I didn't offer an opinion on the issue.
"talking shit" means something different to some people T_T
i don't mean shit-talking, as in insulting or defaming someone. i mean diarrhea of the mouth. talking out of your ass. saying things that provide nothing of value to the conversation.
and your post confirms it. "i didn't offer an opinion on the issue." no, you were just talking shit.
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You are too blinded by your opinion on the particular issue to consider the bigger picture. But just like countless other political issues there are people on both sides who "know" they are right and the other side is wrong. Because you happen to agree with mkp on the particular issue you are giving him a pass.
Answer my question. If a Japanese kid gets good enough to be in the GSL, will he be allowed to hold up a sign saying "Dokdo is Japanese Territory"? I'm sure they feel just as strongly about the issue as mkp does.
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On April 01 2011 17:07 macil22 wrote:
You are too blinded by your opinion on the particular issue to consider the bigger picture. But just like countless other political issues there are people on both sides who "know" they are right and the other side is wrong. Because you happen to agree with mkp on the particular issue you are giving him a pass.
Answer my question. If a Japanese kid gets good enough to be in the GSL, will he be allowed to hold up a sign saying "Dokdo is Japanese Territory"? I'm sure they feel just as strongly about the issue as mkp does.
why does it have to be a japanese kid? what if it was nestea? or jinro?
i'm not gomtv, i don't have any power over what people do on air.
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and people give idra a hardtime....jinro lost it in a tournament...idra keeps his rage in place...even after getting trolled at that IEM
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EPT![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c8/Carlos-Smith.jpg/250px-Carlos-Smith.jpg)
