Players such as Jinro, HuK, and Adelscott did not apply for this tour, so don't ask why they aren't on this list. DIMAGA, Kas, and LaLush turned applications in late so they will not appear either. Please take some time to learn who exactly applied.
Please inform yourself about who applied and who didn't.
the fact that they billed the NASL as the "best players in the world," right?
Seems like they are striving for a combination of best, and interesting as well. There are so many good players out there, it can't be easy and some players will get left out. But they've said they are trying to develop storylines, player back-stories, things like that to help drive this.
And to be honest, I agree with that approach. I don't find watching high level GSL Koreans more entertaining then slightly lower level European or NA play. In fact, sometimes watching Koreans execute perfect builds right back and forth at each other without any creativity is boring. Then you get an interview with a stone faced person who shows no emotion after they win, great. We already have the GSL, if they are going to just do another version of the GSL it won't be as good and we already have that anyway. This needs some features to make it unique, and having to many Koreans that show no emotion regardless of how good they are is not appealing to me. I just want some Koreans mixed in so I can see them get beaten, or at least see how NA/Europe matches up, but having 16 or 20 Koreans with a final 8 being 6 or 7 Korean players? No thanks. Boring.
This is why I've enjoyed the GSTL, the players actually show some personality but that doesn't carry into the GSL. I'm hoping that the NASL has players that will show some personality, speak a language I understand, and offer something a bit different.
This, like many other posts sound like flat out bigotry and racism. Firstly, a tournament that bills itself as "the best players in the world" should have . . you know . . the best players in the world, not a bunch of second rate players. It would essentially be cementing its position as the minor league of the Starcraft world (not even, as we have Code A GSL).
Secondly, stop flaunting your lack of understanding and appreciation of Starcraft because clearly the Korean players' skill go far far beyond just "executing perfect build orders". Their level of multitasking, game sense, and strategic knowledge (compare MVP's transition into BCs to some foreigner scrub being "creative" and massing BCs . . . look at MKP's mass marine style TvZ that so many foreigners have adopted . . . look at Kyrix and July's aggressive two base baneling style . . . there's a reason why most strategies come out of Korea, so don't spout bs about how "foreigners are more creative")
Oh did I mention multitasking? Most foreigners have terrible multitasking, and high level Korean games are filled with displays of multi front micro.
Thirdly, there's a difference between "being bm" and "having personality". Obviously a lot of Korean pros have tons of personality and interesting back stories (Fruitdealer winning GSL in bad times for Zerg, Nestea winning his first championship, MKP making the finals twice and crying after losing 0-4, MC crushing through everyone and winning two GSLs, SlayerS transforming into the best team in Korea). How many non-bm foreigners have any sort of backstory or personality?
"Speak a language you understand?" Am I wrong or does Tastosis NOT SPEAK ENGLISH? Are not all of the player names and interview translated? If anything, GSL has done so much for foreign fans, whereas NASL doesn't seem to care at all to cater to the non-English audience. What do the players' language have anything to do with the quality of the tournament when THEY'RE NOT EVEN TALKING.
On March 25 2011 17:13 xAPOCALYPSEx wrote: As far as I'm concerned, the NASL is and SHOULD BE the NORTH AMERICAN (ok Europe too) STAR LEAGUE. Inviting a few koreans is fine, but the whole point of having a north american star league is so players from NORTH AMERICA compete (ok Europe too). I find it ridiculous that a lot of you are saying that they should invite 15 or 20 koreans. I like watching most non-kr players loads more than watching kr players, because normally they can speak the language that I speak, they can show emotion, make jokes, not be serious 100% of the time, etc etc.
Inviting 5-10 koreans is fine in my book. But I don't just want to see the same MMA/Nestea/MVP/MC finals every single place I go. It gets boring. Give non korean players a chance at the spotlight.
I can't even emphasize how racist you sound.
Include Europe, but exclude Korea . . . can't let those Asians invade OUR tournament lololol ><
I just see it making the most sense to start openly complaining about their player choices when the release the 50. Because now saying oh player x wasn't invited because they don't want too many x, is pointless when only 25 have been released.
On March 25 2011 16:27 yamato77 wrote: Groups 4+5 look like Groups of Death. Damn, this league is going to be so good.
Group 4 ?????? I think it's much weaker than group 1 or 5 (which is only missing nestea, mc, mma, july and alicia :D)
SeleCT, Ace, Machine, and Catz? I would not want to be HasuObs lol. All of those guys are beasts.
I don't like 1 as much. I feel like Fenix and Sheth are pretty outclassed by TLO, Kiwi, and Moon. Then as far as those three go, I'd say they're pretty even, but I wouldn't pick any of them in a Bo5 over anyone I mentioned from group 4. I could be overrating Machine/Catz, but I don't think so.
If they want a tournament made up of the best players from all over the world they should invite Korean code S and A players first and foremost and fill any remaining spots with the best foreigners.
In my book it'd be perfectly fine to only invite North American residents to NASL. That'd avoid the whole debate altogether. As long as the goal is not to showcase the absolute peak of professional play, that'd work just as well for entertainment and promoting eSports in North America (also reduce lag)
I've got no complains with the roster so far though. All I'm saying is that if the tournament is open for everyone, no matter what server you play on, and the top Korean players apply, they should take priority if the goal is to sport the highest level of play.
I don't get the discussion. In real sports it is quite common to have a certain selection based on nationality, because otherwise some sports would be just too one-sided and boring to watch. Imagine there was an unlimited amount of Ethiopians and Kenians allowed for running, Dutch allowed for speed skating or Americans for the 100meters? Not even mentioning the Chinese in badminton and table tennis for that matter.
The only objection you could have is that maybe the selection rules are unclear now.
I really don't see the point in arguing over who should be and who shouldn't be invited to this league. Obviously, the NASL decision-makers have a plan and are going to do things in such a way that this plan is being followed as closely as possible while still satisfying as many people as they can. In this case, it means not inviting every single top Korean applicant because that would water down the NA part of the NASL. First and foremost, this is a foreign league, just like GSL is a Korean league. Both of them accept players from other regions, but still have a majority of their talent come from their region. Make sense to me.
So again, I have to ask, why is everyone being so negative about this league? This is a real chance for the NA e-sports scene to get some traction and create a lasting impact, and the debate is whether to have it full of Koreans or not? C'mon, guys, we should be celebrating our favorite foreign players' invites and talking about who might make it out of the groups. This would be far more interesting!
the amount of whinging and negativity on TL makes me cringe so fucking hard. you people are never happy. sick lineup so far and i have no doubt NASL will be fucking sick and deliver awesome games
On March 25 2011 17:13 xAPOCALYPSEx wrote: As far as I'm concerned, the NASL is and SHOULD BE the NORTH AMERICAN (ok Europe too) STAR LEAGUE. Inviting a few koreans is fine, but the whole point of having a north american star league is so players from NORTH AMERICA compete (ok Europe too). I find it ridiculous that a lot of you are saying that they should invite 15 or 20 koreans. I like watching most non-kr players loads more than watching kr players, because normally they can speak the language that I speak, they can show emotion, make jokes, not be serious 100% of the time, etc etc.
Inviting 5-10 koreans is fine in my book. But I don't just want to see the same MMA/Nestea/MVP/MC finals every single place I go. It gets boring. Give non korean players a chance at the spotlight.
I can't even emphasize how racist you sound.
Include Europe, but exclude Korea . . . can't let those Asians invade OUR tournament lololol ><
Yeah, why arbitrarily include Europe and not other parts of the world? .
Oh, and are you, Apocalypse, really that closed-minded that not speaking the same language as you somehow makes them less entertaining to watch in a game where language is completely irrelevant? And do you even watch the GSL? I'm doubting that you do, because if you did, you'd see Korean players showing PLENTY of emotion, making jokes, doing bm, etc.
The amount by which people exaggerate the "robotic Korean pro" stereotype is completely fucking ridiculous. Some people here are so ignorant it hurts my brain.
Here, let me post further proof to illustrate that anyone who tries to hang onto that stereotype to justify their anti-Korean-in-the-NASL view is completely full of shit.
MC: People are actually bagging on him for being TOO cocky. He gives some interviews in english, and he often does ceremonies.
HongUn: He tries to showboat for his fans, doing ridiculous stuff like mothership rushing or making carriers.
BoxeR: Need I say more?
NesTea: The guy had TEARS in his eyes when he won GSL 2. I swear. He looked so damn happy. That's pretty emotional in my eyes. Oh, and in addition, pretty much every GSL winner did his own thing with his trophy on stage, enjoying his moment, looking as happy as can be. None of them stood there with their trophies like robots.
Clide and Zenio: Their BM war with IdrA was very amusing and Zenio especially let it show in the ceremony he did when he knocked out IdrA.
MKP: This guy is incredibly emotional whenever he loses. He looks absolutely CRUSHED.
Ace and Bomber: Dancing BM during the team league ingame and out of it.
LosirA: Dancing BM during the team league as well. Also, that dude looks like he loves the game so much. It's endearing.
The entire SlayerS team: When they won the team league, everyone one of them looked absolutely ELATED. Tossing MMA, Boxer, and Cella into the air, celebrating and cheering. Pretty emotional.
Entire IM team: Again, when they won the team league, they showed plenty of emotion. Looked very happy.
Cella: Holy Check.
Koma: That dude is so fucking happy. He made Artosis happy just by being so infectiously happy.
LegalMind: Funny IdrA BM.
Genius: Also does some pretty hilarious ceremonies, such as blowing bubbles in his booth when he knocked MVP to code A. Also well-known for being rather cocky and BM. Good friends with IdrA.
Moon: "Koreans own white dudes". (Yeah I know it was an inside joke but it was damn well timed).
This is all just off the top of my head, and I believe that this perfectly illustrates that Koreans have plenty of personality and show plenty of emotion. I don't know what some people want - it seems like if you're Korean, you need to do tons of ceremonies and BM and whatnot or you'll be labeled "boring". Ridiculous.
On March 25 2011 16:27 yamato77 wrote: Groups 4+5 look like Groups of Death. Damn, this league is going to be so good.
Group 4 ?????? I think it's much weaker than group 1 or 5 (which is only missing nestea, mc, mma, july and alicia :D)
SeleCT, Ace, Machine, and Catz? I would not want to be HasuObs lol. All of those guys are beasts.
I don't like 1 as much. I feel like Fenix and Sheth are pretty outclassed by TLO, Kiwi, and Moon. Then as far as those three go, I'd say they're pretty even, but I wouldn't pick any of them in a Bo5 over anyone I mentioned from group 4. I could be overrating Machine/Catz, but I don't think so.
Are you kidding? HasuObs is clear second in that group, behind Ace and in front of SelecT, Machine, Catz.
This tournament is awesome stuff. I see nothing negative about it in any way, shape or form. But yes, as VicTimEyes said it's good practice set a limit on how many competitors each nation is allowed to send. However, it should be fair and square. And if the goal is to show the highest level of play, the best should be chosen. Even if it means a player of MC's caliber will walk over the entire tournament like nothing.
On March 25 2011 17:39 Nifel wrote: In my book it'd be perfectly fine to only invite North American residents to NASL. That'd avoid the whole debate altogether. As long as the goal is not to showcase the absolute peak of professional play, that'd work just as well for entertainment and promoting eSports in North America (also reduce lag)
That would be a perfectly reasonable solution, but how would you justify the investment (with 400k only in prize money over 3 seasons), if your biggest - and pretty much only - real tournament stars are Tyler, Idra, Kiwi, TT1 and Fenix?
You don't put that much money into a league only to have it be lesser quality and less popular than GSL or even MLG (that a lot of people travel to from EU/Korea) and whichever new big tournaments pop up (such as the IGN thing), especially if the tournaments coincide with each other. It would make no sense and wouldn't really promote much.
On March 25 2011 17:39 Nifel wrote: In my book it'd be perfectly fine to only invite North American residents to NASL. That'd avoid the whole debate altogether. As long as the goal is not to showcase the absolute peak of professional play, that'd work just as well for entertainment and promoting eSports in North America (also reduce lag)
That would be a perfectly reasonable solution, but how would you justify the investment (with 400k only in prize money over 3 seasons), if your biggest - and pretty much only - real tournament stars are Tyler, Idra, Kiwi, TT1 and Fenix?
You don't put that much money into a league only to have it be lesser quality and less popular than GSL or even MLG (that a lot of people travel to from EU/Korea) and whichever new big tournaments pop up (such as the IGN thing), especially if the tournaments coincide with each other. It would make no sense and wouldn't really promote much.
Yeah, going by common sense a 400k prize would be perhaps a bit too much for a tournament filled with mostly (somewhat) unknown players. One could argue that with proper promotion and such an insane prize sum new teams and players would rise all over the place. Of course qualifiers and whatnot would be needed, but in the long run it could give North American eSports a huge boost. Unfortunately, chances are people who just want to see the tiptop highest level of play would only watch the finals and turn their attention elsewhere.
I believe there is a room for a huge NA-exclusive league though (think NHL). Not today or tomorrow, but at some point there will be.
Anyway, my only real points were that it would avoid the debate altogether and that I wouldn't mind watching it.
On March 25 2011 18:36 Yamulo wrote: Group 5 is STACKED =D so excited i will get to see idra vs nony a classic =DDDDDDDDDDDD
Cancel hatchery opening with transition into ragequit.
But yeah, it'll be a PvZ of the ages. While it would have made the most epic final ever, this way we'll get to see these beasts duke it out no matter what. I guess it's for the better.
On March 25 2011 16:27 yamato77 wrote: Groups 4+5 look like Groups of Death. Damn, this league is going to be so good.
Group 4 ?????? I think it's much weaker than group 1 or 5 (which is only missing nestea, mc, mma, july and alicia :D)
SeleCT, Ace, Machine, and Catz? I would not want to be HasuObs lol. All of those guys are beasts.
I don't like 1 as much. I feel like Fenix and Sheth are pretty outclassed by TLO, Kiwi, and Moon. Then as far as those three go, I'd say they're pretty even, but I wouldn't pick any of them in a Bo5 over anyone I mentioned from group 4. I could be overrating Machine/Catz, but I don't think so.
I didn't see Catz or Machine's play in any recent tournament, so the only comment I can make is: They either don't participate in many tournaments, they get eliminated pretty quickly or they don't get any invites.
Machine won the NC Gaming Invitational in december, but the participents were not the best NA players (CatZ was eliminated in the first round). Machine lost the ThunderZone Showmatch #1 against Sjow. Apart from that he didnt produce any results in the last four months.
CatZ is moving in a progaming house with his teammates, so that should improve his play in the future. In the past he lost a showmatch against Kiwikaki (Hangwith.me Showcase #1), won a showmatch against Mihai (never heard of him before) (sixjaxNrG Showmatch #1) and he won the Justin.tv Invite #1 which had a fairly decent competition (MaNa, Naama, KawaiiRice), but that was more than three months ago.
So I feel like CatZ could be on par with HasuObs and Select.
But none of these players pose a threat to Ace, as he totally outclasses them. In group 1 however I wouldn't put Kiwi, Fenix and TLO that far behind Moon and it is definately possible for those four to beat or to be beaten by any of those 4. I feel sorry for Sheth
On March 25 2011 17:39 Nifel wrote: In my book it'd be perfectly fine to only invite North American residents to NASL. That'd avoid the whole debate altogether. As long as the goal is not to showcase the absolute peak of professional play, that'd work just as well for entertainment and promoting eSports in North America (also reduce lag)
That would be a perfectly reasonable solution, but how would you justify the investment (with 400k only in prize money over 3 seasons), if your biggest - and pretty much only - real tournament stars are Tyler, Idra, Kiwi, TT1 and Fenix?
You don't put that much money into a league only to have it be lesser quality and less popular than GSL or even MLG (that a lot of people travel to from EU/Korea) and whichever new big tournaments pop up (such as the IGN thing), especially if the tournaments coincide with each other. It would make no sense and wouldn't really promote much.
Lol. I read your post, and i was like wow, are those really the 5 best players they got? Outside of idra and tyler, ehhhhhhhhhh. Didn't kawaiirice take out tt1 2-0 in gcpl or something?
EPT
