On March 21 2011 06:40 MYM.ClouD wrote: Baneling bust off 2 bases is absolutely retarded and overpowered against any FE build who doesn't include fast hellions or fast siege tanks (which is a shit build anyway except for holding and punishing baneling bust). It turns the early game into a coinflip. People calling Morrow "hyper aggressive" or thinking he played well are wrong because anyone, even a silver league player, can pull it off. This just shows how this game is too much about chances and all in and not as skill centered as WC3 and SCBW. I'm very disappointed at SC2.
On March 21 2011 06:40 MYM.ClouD wrote: Baneling bust off 2 bases is absolutely retarded and overpowered against any FE build who doesn't include fast hellions or fast siege tanks (which is a shit build anyway except for holding and punishing baneling bust). It turns the early game into a coinflip. People calling Morrow "hyper aggressive" or thinking he played well are wrong because anyone, even a silver league player, can pull it off. This just shows how this game is too much about chances and all in and not as skill centered as WC3 and SCBW. I'm very disappointed at SC2.
ClouD, the only thing wich is overpowered to terran is GoodY!
On March 21 2011 06:44 Exarl25 wrote: This thread is fucking disgusting, last time I read a LR thread.
Morrow played very well and most definitely deserved the win. Jinro made a mistake by going for such greedy builds and was punished for it.
But no the fanboys on here can't see that. Whine, whine, OP, cheese, whine, whine, do anything possible to downplay Morrow's achievement. It's a fucking disgrace.
So many people in this thread are ridiculously biased for T/Z.
Terrans: "OMG why are so many people cheering for baneling bust, they always shit on 2rax!" Zergs: "OMG why are so many people shitting on baneling bust, they always cheer for 2rax!"
great bust. early expansions should always be a risk, even if it means we have 90% of zerg players crying over their own 1st expo being hard. (and i feel its easiest for them still)
On March 21 2011 06:40 MYM.ClouD wrote: Baneling bust off 2 bases is absolutely retarded and overpowered against any FE build who doesn't include fast hellions or fast siege tanks (which is a shit build anyway except for holding and punishing baneling bust). It turns the early game into a coinflip. People calling Morrow "hyper aggressive" or thinking he played well are wrong because anyone, even a silver league player, can pull it off. This just shows how this game is too much about chances and all in and not as skill centered as WC3 and SCBW. I'm very disappointed at SC2.
So, according to all of that, what do you think about 2 rax marine pressure? I really want to know, sincerely.
On March 21 2011 06:31 Vindicate wrote: You're right, everyone. When Jinro 14 cc'd, MorroW should have sat back and done nothing. That was clearly the correct counter, instead of using aggression to push back against Jinro's econ-heavy openings. If your opponent is better than you, as is the case of Jinro being better than MorroW, you have to do something that makes your opponent step outside his comfort zone. You have to make him step sideways and adapt to you, instead of letting him set up his gameplan and roll over you. If you wanted to win a game against a superior opponent, you would have done the same thing. It's strategy 101.
Pretty much this. Jinro is my favorite and I was rooting for him so yeah I'm upset with Morrow for knocking him out. While I do have a lot of respect for Morrow and how incredible he is with zerg after switching races, he has to know that Jinro is just on another level if they play a long macro game. He maximizes his chance of winning by taking advantage of Jinro's greedy opening and tendency to get late siege tanks. That was absolutely the correct response if he wanted to win that game, even if it was a little all-in-ish. So I wouldn't lump him in with the ladder cheesers, he just understood what he needed to do to win and recognized the biggest weakness in Jinro's build. The timing in games 1 and 3, where he stopped stim right before it finished, I don't think that was luck.
On March 21 2011 06:24 JoeSchmoe wrote: yeah morrow can't play macro, just baneling bust every game. love how zerg still complains about no macro games. lame, jinro is clearly the better player
Look at the build Jinro did. CC before Rax is clearly very greedy , and since it got scouted by Morrow, he just reacted accordingly by punishing him for that build. Jinro didnt react properly to the bust. He knew it was coming but didnt throw down bunkers, and just relied on his baracks wall. So it was Jinros fault he lost, and it does not mean that morrow allins every game, he just scouted and reacted like zergs should do.
On March 21 2011 06:40 MYM.ClouD wrote: Baneling bust off 2 bases is absolutely retarded and overpowered against any FE build who doesn't include fast hellions or fast siege tanks (which is a shit build anyway except for holding and punishing baneling bust). It turns the early game into a coinflip. People calling Morrow "hyper aggressive" or thinking he played well are wrong because anyone, even a silver league player, can pull it off. This just shows how this game is too much about chances and all in and not as skill centered as WC3 and SCBW. I'm very disappointed at SC2.
It's not a coin flip, it's a counter to a build. If Terran don't fe and go hellions or fast Siege and will be far behind as you suggest and lose 100% of time against every zerg, then the game is broken. But this hasn't been proven so I don't agree with you.
wonder how much jinro is beating himself up for moving that factory that was behind the middle raxx But leaving it there wouldve been extremely non conventional.
On March 21 2011 06:40 MYM.ClouD wrote: Baneling bust off 2 bases is absolutely retarded and overpowered against any FE build who doesn't include fast hellions or fast siege tanks (which is a shit build anyway except for holding and punishing baneling bust). It turns the early game into a coinflip. People calling Morrow "hyper aggressive" or thinking he played well are wrong because anyone, even a silver league player, can pull it off. This just shows how this game is too much about chances and all in and not as skill centered as WC3 and SCBW. I'm very disappointed at SC2.
It's not about whether they could execute it. It's about whether they could choose to do it. You're not including strategy in skill. Terrans in major tournaments often do FEs that don't have hellions or siege tanks and yet somehow they don't all lose. So either you're wrong and it isn't a clear win or isn't easy to execute, or the fact that it's so strong is something that most zergs haven't figured out. Either way, give Morrow some credit.
That said, it feels nice to have a zerg player's wins being discounted and blamed on imbalance for once, rather than always terrans (though I bet Morrow is feeling like he's cursed...).
He choose to do it out of nowhere with no real informations. If jinro opened FE into 2 fac hellions 3 rax stim (very, very common build) morrow would have been raped. You have to play blind and hope it works. This is SC2. I'm not sure how much of mindgame credit you can take out of this kind of simple all in build order decisions.
How come if Morrow had a even drone count to Jinro's SCV number when going for first burst? ( talking about 3rd game )
Husky especially pointed that out that he's been throwing in some drones while morphing banelings so if he fails he can still play instead of gg'ing out.
At worst he was going to destroy building facilities which would slow any counter attack anyway.
how was this a coinflip build ? Getting two bases saturated with 3 gasses and a baneling nest is completely freaking standard ZvT. At that point morrow assessed the situation and decided he had a decent shot of winning so he took it. People's emotions are getting the better of them here.
Morrow won, he is the better player today so stop QQing. 2 base baneling is just as standard as a fast third. If anything blame Jinro for cutting corners and not fully preparing for a very possible bust. What morrow did wasn't even fully allin, since with two queens he could get to 60 drones super fast, and the map distance would have allowed him to do so.
EPT
But leaving it there wouldve been extremely non conventional. 
