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On March 21 2011 06:40 MYM.ClouD wrote:
Baneling bust off 2 bases is absolutely retarded and overpowered against any FE build who doesn't include fast hellions or fast siege tanks (which is a shit build anyway except for holding and punishing baneling bust). It turns the early game into a coinflip. People calling Morrow "hyper aggressive" or thinking he played well are wrong because anyone, even a silver league player, can pull it off. This just shows how this game is too much about chances and all in and not as skill centered as WC3 and SCBW. I'm very disappointed at SC2.
While im not disapointed with SC2 like you, I have to agree, they really need to look at ways to fix the coinflip. I think build order building requirements could eliminate alot of this. But I feel the same way about the 2 base bust. It forces you to make faster siege tanks than your economy can afford at that point when you are fast expoing.
Either way, A couple of bunkers could have probably saved him too.
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My bracket hurts so, so, much.
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I love the irony of how all we heard for months before these new maps were how terran players can't macro and can't play for the late game and when these maps came out terran tries to macro and go for the late game and they just get all in'd. ^_^
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Russian Federation115 Posts
Wow, Morrow getting so much hate :< But well, he just plays the game that we all play, Jinro in g1 and g3 went for veery greedy builds, and got punished for it, you have to be able to defend this July style if you're doing this i guess. Not sure how to do it properly, but still.
Was rooting for Jinro aswell, and thought that he's gonna go for a more safe build, but oh well :< Can't really hate on Morrow, he played like he should.
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On March 21 2011 06:44 disciple wrote:
damn sad to see the local boys out, but the battle for the second place is wide open. Its everyone's second place right now. Awesome tournament so far, there is really some drama
Wow. You seem pretty confident in your first place pick...lemme guess, MC?
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I don't get how Morrow got through so easily the third game, but oh well, well played by him. It did seem like Jinro couldn't do much, but it's become clear to me that Zerg is doing tremendously better on these larger maps than they were on the Blizzard ones. I wonder if there would have been any difference had stim been complete?
Edit:
On March 21 2011 06:45 Treva wrote:
I love the irony of how all we heard for months before these new maps were how terran players can't macro and can't play for the late game and when these maps came out terran tries to macro and go for the late game and they just get all in'd. ^_^
Completely agreed. I wonder if Idra is still making terran players apologize?
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Seconds after HasuObs attacked with the proxy units, everyone lost their shit. Red barrels exploding, women jizzing all over the place. I saw one guy start violently slapping the person right next to him. Pretty sure there was one of those flying penises with propellers, too. For a few seconds, every train in the world stopped, every breath was held and koreans couldn't even micro right. It was spectacular.
Meanwhile, MorroW quietly got into a rolling car in the color of green, and rode it from a six-hundred-story building right into a flying helicopter. It exploded, but not without MorroW jumping off using a skateboard and a laser pistol. Before he landed, the legends tells he managed to satisfy fourteen women and two men. A single tear from a single viking dropped into the ocean at that moment.
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On March 21 2011 06:44 Samhax wrote:ClouD is the Idra for Terran, it's hilarious 
na cloud also cries about terran stuff.
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On March 21 2011 06:43 mTw|NarutO wrote:
I think people should realize that game 3 of HasuObs vs HuK was not a build order win, well it certainly was partly. HasuObs distracted the zealot of HuK with his initial scoutingprobe and did send a 2nd probe which build the pylon.
Thats the reason the 4 gate worked - it was brilliant play and simply outsmarted by HasuObs - not a simple build order win.
well, its hasus buildorder includes the distracting probe - he did that for the 3rd time now^^
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why are there so many scrubs here whining about baneling bust, or other cheese?
it might not require much skill, but it's the correct response to greedy play. jinro in all his infinite skillz and 1337ness did not have an answer to the baneling bust and therefore deserved to lose.
the same applies to any form of cheese. if you lose to cheese then you took a risk and paid the price.
cheese makes the game more dynamic and exciting. nothing is more exciting than watch a skilled player successfully defend a cheese - that's why we love tester aka trickster(?)
having cheese in your back of tricks is what makes players like morrow and julyzerg superior to players like idra for example.
tl;dr
STANDARD = BORING
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On March 21 2011 06:44 aristarchus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 06:40 MYM.ClouD wrote:
Baneling bust off 2 bases is absolutely retarded and overpowered against any FE build who doesn't include fast hellions or fast siege tanks (which is a shit build anyway except for holding and punishing baneling bust). It turns the early game into a coinflip. People calling Morrow "hyper aggressive" or thinking he played well are wrong because anyone, even a silver league player, can pull it off. This just shows how this game is too much about chances and all in and not as skill centered as WC3 and SCBW. I'm very disappointed at SC2. It's not about whether they could execute it. It's about whether they could choose to do it. You're not including strategy in skill. Terrans in major tournaments often do FEs that don't have hellions or siege tanks and yet somehow they don't all lose. So either you're wrong and it isn't a clear win or isn't easy to execute, or the fact that it's so strong is something that most zergs haven't figured out. Either way, give Morrow some credit. That said, it feels nice to have a zerg player's wins being discounted and blamed on imbalance for once, rather than always terrans (though I bet Morrow is feeling like he's cursed...).
He choose to do it out of nowhere with no real informations. If jinro opened FE into 2 fac hellions 3 rax stim (very, very common build) morrow would have been raped. You have to play blind and hope it works. This is SC2. I'm not sure how much of mindgame credit you can take out of this kind of simple all in build order decisions.
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So much nonsense whining in here now. Jinro goes a very risky opening (14cc), that you seldom see and gets punished for it. Busting him when he will only have a few marines to defend with is the correct response in my opinion. Its not cheese since morrow probably didnt go into those games and thought "I am gonna baneling bust the shit outta jinro", it was a reaction after scouting. And onetrick pony comments... damn you obviously don't watch much starcraft2, I won't even bother trying to explain why you are wrong.
And if you guys really wanted to watch "straighup" games (I honestly dont know what you mean with straightup games), you should start asking jinro to stop doing bunker rushes in 90% of his games (I dont actually mind jinro doing that, but then again I dont blame him for doing it). Its way more cheesy than 2 base baneling.
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On March 21 2011 06:40 MYM.ClouD wrote:
Baneling bust off 2 bases is absolutely retarded and overpowered against any FE build who doesn't include fast hellions or fast siege tanks (which is a shit build anyway except for holding and punishing baneling bust). It turns the early game into a coinflip. People calling Morrow "hyper aggressive" or thinking he played well are wrong because anyone, even a silver league player, can pull it off. This just shows how this game is too much about chances and all in and not as skill centered as WC3 and SCBW. I'm very disappointed at SC2.
I agree with your conclusion even if no player has shown yet flawless mechanics (except for MC?). The "hard counters" mechanics on a limited information environment makes a lot of games a coinflip. And it gets old fast.
May i ask what were your reasons to believe the first game of Boxer should have been replayed?
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On March 21 2011 06:44 VAGZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 06:42 hugman wrote:
So many people here who have gotten tricked into thinking that only macro games are "real" games Macro is the art of starcraft, cheese and all-ins are for scum.
Go play "no attacking before 200/200"
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Don't worry guys, he'll bust MC right out of the TSL. Although I'd prefer to see Jinro vs MC for epic matches, Morrow vs MC will prove to be just as exciting if you ask me.
Also, game 3 Morrow fooled Jinro, game 2 Jinro bunkerrushed and game 1 Morrow waited with the banelingbust untill he was sure he'd have a shot.
He may not be that popular as Jinro, but dammit he brings some much needed drama to sc2 :p (Remeber the 5rax reaper build vs Idra, he did it every single game and then in the last game he pulled another strat which caught Idra offguard.) He just such a baller :p
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On March 21 2011 06:44 vdale wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 06:40 MYM.ClouD wrote:
Baneling bust off 2 bases is absolutely retarded and overpowered against any FE build who doesn't include fast hellions or fast siege tanks (which is a shit build anyway except for holding and punishing baneling bust). It turns the early game into a coinflip. People calling Morrow "hyper aggressive" or thinking he played well are wrong because anyone, even a silver league player, can pull it off. This just shows how this game is too much about chances and all in and not as skill centered as WC3 and SCBW. I'm very disappointed at SC2. But if it's overpowered against FE builds and you can do it after you scout a FE, why do terrans make fast expansions? It would be really really dumb not to banelingbust if it's so overpowered. So yeah, Morrow played good because he chose the right strategy after scouting his opponent. If you are right, Jinro played bad because he made a far too risky strategy.
what is wrong with people? he tried to baneling bust every game even when jinro did 2-rax opening in game 2
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On March 21 2011 06:43 JoeSchmoe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2011 06:41 Marooned wrote:
I don't understand why so many is bashing Morrow for doing the right thing. If you just leave a terran alone to cc first like that the mule design will put you as a zerg in a terrible spot. You cant just drone hard and take a fast third either because the potential of 6+ rax worth of marines could be on the way any second, or super fast tech of 4 gasses. It wasn't as fun to watch as I expected, but still Morrow did the right thing. Jinro did the right thing by bunker rushing in the second game. The placement caught Morrow with his pants down, and that was the game. Same thing. Greed should be punishable, or else its just stupid. Some say Morrow almost came back when running over those unseiged tanks, but it didn't really matter, he was still way behind. the point was morrow doing the same thing all 3 games. It wasn't a response to anything he just tries to baneling bust every game. CC first? baneling bust. 2-rax opening? baneling bust.
Do you really think MorroW has got to the level he is at just by doing baneling busts every game ? I suggest you watch some more of his games. I don't even...
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On March 21 2011 06:43 hifriend wrote:
Those weren't some blind all in dice rolls. Morrow scouted cc first, reacted accordingly, and won the games with little effort.
Game 2, morrow fell behind early game and that's not a good position to be in for any zerg player on this planet. Morrow played his best and super solid jinro didn't let him back in the game.
MorroW also responded to 2rax pressure into expo with a baneling bust, and promptly got facerolled. I'm not saying that MorroW isn't a great player, it's just that his play today was a bit 1 dimensional and boring.
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On March 21 2011 06:42 KhAlleB wrote:
as day9 said the better player try to get the game during the longest time, while the worse try to end it asap
Or maybe a player isn't worse but has a different style than just macro macro macro. Look at JulyZerg... how often is he the "worse player?" Also if a player thinks they are better/equal to their opponent but their race isn't equal/better late game (not saying MorroW thinks this, or that Zerg is imbalanced/weak vs Terran late game..) then they may try to end the game early or even in the mid game... Yes there are instances where an inferior player cheeses a better player because they have no hope otherwise, but this was not one of them (nor do I think this was cheese), MorroW is very good.
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EPT
