EPTThe guy is a beast, he is scary as hell
[GSL] Code S Ro8: Day 1 - Page 93
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Tyree
1508 Posts
The guy is a beast, he is scary as hell | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On January 18 2011 16:19 summerloud wrote: still, i think terran infantery rapes toss just way too hard. its nice that even artosis realizes this now that he switched to toss. Even Artosis? Because he was on the "terran is too weak" team before? | ||
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eatpraylove
United States53 Posts
On January 18 2011 15:28 IPA wrote: Love everyone selling MVP short here. It's laughable. Am I the only one who enjoyed both sets? Two superior players won and I enjoyed watching them execute. It's a tough crowd out there apparently.. :/ As much as I'd have liked to see a Protoss make the semis I enjoyed them both. A tight build order followed by a well-timed push? Cool. Also, the way Nestea won on Scrap Station was amazing. As Artosis said, "Nestea... gonna definitely be dead. No possibility of living through this." I just don't see MVP rolling over him the same way. | ||
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
- people mistake long games and good games (a stupid no rush 25 macro game will always be recommended while a non stop action 12 minutes intense micro game will be "boring") - people mistake macro for skill (so the above syndrome makes people think that players who win fast are always bad) The list could be longer (terran wins = terran imba for instance, we didn't had that for a long time, today it's back), but the bias here is ridiculous. And you have to understand that if you play starcraft, each bias you have is a flaw in your play. | ||
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ricerocket
154 Posts
On January 18 2011 16:33 Tyree wrote: MVP isent boring to watch, he is if not the best SC2 player in the world in the top 3. The guy is a beast, he is scary as hell being good doesn't necessarily equals being entertaining or vice versa | ||
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keioh
France1099 Posts
On January 18 2011 15:54 Durantula wrote: i think its also arguable that MVP didn't want to play a macro game with Tester while the other games (like the metalopolis one) he was much more confident that he was better than his opponent. Since MVP has just stopped BW where he was an A-teamer (and a reliable one), I don't think he fears anybody in a "macrogame" in the current state of SC2. He's got perfect mechanics so he just have to diplay them at this moment, and as it has already been said multiple time, why would you bother making a long game on little maps that favour early aggression and all-inish tactics ? While MVP is definetely one of the actual best, I remember that everybody expected MC to roflstomp his group without even a doubt, so MVP should not be seen as completely invincible until he won GSL without giving a game (which is quite possible). More personally, I feel he's nearly unbeatable in TvZ, but I can't say at all that his TvP or his TvT is at the same level. I have the feeling that the only reliable toss at this moment is MC, who is out, so the game vs Tester does'nt proove anything imho about MVP competence in TvP (though Tester is quite good, he's obviously not at the same level of skill as the actual better players). I don't remember him playing a TvT recently, so I can't say for this matchup. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
On January 18 2011 10:34 brain_ wrote: MVP is boring to watch. He just has Terran's (arguably imba) strengths down to a science, and he knows when to all-in. He doesn't have a new or exciting style (like Jinro), and he doesn't create long impressive macro games (like IdrA or NesTea), etc. Hes just a mechanically gifted player who knows the timings. Same exact Terran play we have seen since beta, just with SCV pulls and slightly different timings. MVP reminds me of Rainbow in GSL 1, except he doesn't choke. The guy is just a robot. I guess you were trying to be "negative" about MVP but I couldn't help thinking "I wish had a little bit of all the things you just mentioned MVP have". He is a beast, he roflstomps nerds and he is making a living of sc2. Watching TSL_Alive doing his scv allins was like /facepalm. You knew he could win with the all in but it wasn't obvious he was going to win. Watching MVP do the allins was like "ok, he is gonna roflstomp tester now". The timing and attack was so damn crisp. End of story. | ||
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usethis2
2164 Posts
On January 18 2011 16:11 sqrt wrote: I still think your argument is kind of moot. The metagame is currently in this position, nothing implying racial imbalance. Look at Zerg players, for them the metagame has stagnated a little (14 hatch/ 15 pool) and only now do we see a little more unconventional play ( Idra games vs Clide, NesTea vs Choya). The metagame for Toss is nearly non-existant, I don't think there is anyone (besides MC) who knows how to play Protoss( at the GSL level at least), there was a standard Colossi play, but that got figured out. The metagame for Terrans has changed the most, generally as a counter to toss/zerg metagame. Currently, players are just playing the current state of the game, where the average terran player can win vs the avarage z/p player. If you look at the remainig Terrans in the tourney, they are much, much more than that. Give it some time, I'm sure at some point we will all be whining how OP Zerg is. I don't think what you say differs much from what I said other than the balance part which I did not have in mind. Of course it takes skill and APM to execute even the predetermined builds, and I don't take anything away from T players. (except some bad examples like BBB) My statement was just an observation as a spectator and you seem to agree that it is what it is (meta-game), at least for now. I don't know how much of that is a balance issue or even the race design issue. But the way many T's (except Jinro of course  ) playing the games are a little too dull/routine for my taste - I'm just a spectator, of course. But as a spectator I hope to see more dynamic T games beyond executing builds. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11086 Posts
Choya and Tester are ostensibly in the top 5 best toss out there. (Ok choya's a stretch). MC is Toss' version of S1 Fruitdealer. No one else can come close to him. (Maybe huk maybe sang ho but neither have shown their calibre on the ultimate stage yet) If Mvp beats tester then his TvP is probably as good as his TvZ. | ||
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laonda
Netherlands44 Posts
The game between Tester and IMmvp are harder to analyze. I must say IMmvp just reacted extremely well against the fast expands of tester. Even with some perfect forcefields of tester he was unable to stop his pushes. I would really have liked to see just see one macro game because then I think tester would give IMmvp a run for his money but now it looked like very onesided. Early game TvP in de hands of IMmvp looks to scary!!! | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On January 18 2011 17:22 Sabu113 wrote: @Kech... Choya and Tester are ostensibly in the top 5 best toss out there. (Ok choya's a stretch). MC is Toss' version of S1 Fruitdealer. No one else can come close to him. (Maybe huk maybe sang ho but neither have shown their calibre on the ultimate stage yet) If Mvp beats tester then his TvP is probably as good as his TvZ. And his TvT is not that bad either >< (roflstomped every T in GSL + 3-1 against marinefuckingking) He's a beast, that's all =) | ||
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sadyque
Romania251 Posts
On January 18 2011 17:06 MrCon wrote: I enjoyed both games too. Problem here are : - people mistake long games and good games (a stupid no rush 25 macro game will always be recommended while a non stop action 12 minutes intense micro game will be "boring") - people mistake macro for skill (so the above syndrome makes people think that players who win fast are always bad) The list could be longer (terran wins = terran imba for instance, we didn't had that for a long time, today it's back), but the bias here is ridiculous. And you have to understand that if you play starcraft, each bias you have is a flaw in your play. Exactly what this guy said! Stop with your "Zomg no rush 15 min then lets meets in the middle and a-move our army ballz!" Ye thats interesting as hell....I remember a game a few days ago (dont remember player names) when a Tastosis went like "He is building a zealot, the other is building a marauder" and so on an so forth for like 15mins....Then Tasteless says well we can go grab a coffee and come back and these guys will probably still build their stuff up. Oh ya...i love to see fucking "No rush 15 BGH No nubs plox!!!" games. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
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EzCheeze
United States81 Posts
On January 18 2011 17:33 laonda wrote: Pfff these games where onesided. Nestea just overclassed choya in pure skills. The game between Tester and IMmvp are harder to analyze. I must say IMmvp just reacted extremely well against the fast expands of tester. Even with some perfect forcefields of tester he was unable to stop his pushes. I would really have liked to see just see one macro game because then I think tester would give IMmvp a run for his money but now it looked like very onesided. Early game TvP in de hands of IMmvp looks to scary!!! Early game PvT is always scary...not to take anything from MVP as fe'ing vs T is kinda asking to be SCV all-in'd, but any stim attack vP seems way too powerful. There's no way to level the playing field until T3 - before that you must straight up out-macro the guy because gateway units get roflstomped. At that point the matchup flips due to Khaydarin, giving T every motivation to end it while they have a definitive advantage with stim. It's a tough situation. vZ it's not so bad, their 'gateway-unit-roflstomper' is T2 at least, giving you time to get the tech you need to stop it and allowing for some early pressure of your own. In spite of what Blizz said they attempted to accomplish with patch 1.2, they didn't address TvP (early or lategame) at all. Here's hoping they get on it. | ||
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Deadlyfish
Denmark1980 Posts
On January 18 2011 17:51 EzCheeze wrote: Early game PvT is always scary...not to take anything from MVP as fe'ing vs T is kinda asking to be SCV all-in'd, but any stim attack vP seems way too powerful. There's no way to level the playing field until T3 - before that you must straight up out-macro the guy because gateway units get roflstomped. At that point the matchup flips due to Khaydarin, giving T every motivation to end it while they have a definitive advantage with stim. It's a tough situation. vZ it's not so bad, their 'gateway-unit-roflstomper' is T2 at least, giving you time to get the tech you need to stop it and allowing for some early pressure of your own. In spite of what Blizz said they attempted to accomplish with patch 1.2, they didn't address TvP (early or lategame) at all. Here's hoping they get on it. There is nothing wrong with TvP early game imo. Gateway units are just fine as long as you have the same supply as him and the right unit combination. TvP is balanced at all times throughout a game. The only reason it looks different is because tester kept FEing vs a 1 base terran. Imagine 1 rax FE vs 4 gate all-in. Now imagine the terran lost. Then imagine terrans complaining about "protoss early game unstoppable". Sounds pretty dumb doesnt it  | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On January 18 2011 17:51 EzCheeze wrote: Early game PvT is always scary...not to take anything from MVP as fe'ing vs T is kinda asking to be SCV all-in'd, but any stim attack vP seems way too powerful. There's no way to level the playing field until T3 - before that you must straight up out-macro the guy because gateway units get roflstomped. At that point the matchup flips due to Khaydarin, giving T every motivation to end it while they have a definitive advantage with stim. It's a tough situation. vZ it's not so bad, their 'gateway-unit-roflstomper' is T2 at least, giving you time to get the tech you need to stop it and allowing for some early pressure of your own. In spite of what Blizz said they attempted to accomplish with patch 1.2, they didn't address TvP (early or lategame) at all. Here's hoping they get on it. Forcefields are perfectly fine against stim attacks...in season 1 Tester crushed that exact stim push with a much smaller army. And by crushed I mean crushed. No need to wait for colossi or storm when the armies are still in the 60-90 supply range. Anyway I just rewatched MVP game 3, and god tester micro is so bad comparing to what it was  When MVP "pushed" with 2 marauders, tester had a sentry and a stalker...they were hit by concussive (= they're dead), but he still didn't attack with them, just retreated them like a noob so they did zero damage where the ycould have killed a marauder...that was so bad. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
Stream is up ! | ||
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
On January 18 2011 17:50 Kreb wrote: Offtopic: Isnt Jinro playing soon today? Or is it just that no one created a LR-thread yet? Tomorrow | ||
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