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On January 18 2011 19:38 imbs wrote:
did u guys not see how tester totally outplayed him in game 2, his blue flame hellion drop/push did nothing. doesnt matter for terran tho. if a protoss dt rush fails they lose the game. if a terran blueflame/banshee does nothing it doesn't actually matter nearly enough as it should.
ofc when a good terran plays hes gonna win everything. just look at how well marineking did - making 1 type of unit with good micro was enough.
If a DT rush fails and the terran is going a bio based build it's going to take another 5 minutes before the terran can push out and when you are smart you already set up an expansion wich gives you a huge eco lead.
btw, is it coincidence that every protoss get crushed by terrans at the moment?
Is it a coincidence MC won GSL3? Even if there are ANY imbalances in TvP. (Wich I think there aren't. From a T perspective I think toss is definitely favored, atleast in a macro game. But i'm biased, just like you) Then any imbalance can be overcome by skill. Zerg is generally seen as the weakest race, still 2 out of 3 GSL winners were zerg. This game is really close to balance, stop blaming every loss on imbalance and improve.
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Tester is one of the most overrated protoss's in the GSL, He is rediculously predictable and stubborn and quite bad at decision making in terms of strategy. His strength is his mechanic skill (insane) his ability to make the most of what he has at the time (also insane) and his tendancy to try to overwhelm with economy (with a bit of success). His complete lack of understanding of the phases and threats of the game astound me though he knows so much abou tthe game but doesn't know the meanings it seems, and seeing his play this GSL explains alot to me why he didn't make it season 2 +3 and made me rewatch his GSL 1 games, which display the same mistakes, mistakes that seemed llike NOTHING compared to most of the players in GSL, but remain unfixed since then, it's kind of embarrassing, and kind of points to my conclusion that SC2 is a much more mental game than SC1, while SC1 was so heavily invested in knowledge of the game, preparation and raw skill, SC2 is more invested in split second decision making, intelligence, and ability to understand as much as possible about the game. Tester Has very high rating to me in the SC1 categories but definitely appears lacking in the SC2 categories.
(note: this in NO way implies that SC1 pros are stupid,only that SC2 is much more mental than sc1, and that the players at the top of SC1 are at the top because they exhibit all of the categories i mentioned, where low-mid level pros in sc1 may lack in the second categories similar to how low-mid level pros in sc2 lack in the first categories
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I think Mana Huk socke and others are much better than these protoss in GSL. MC only won because no one could stop his gimmicky void ray cheese and 4gating.
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On January 19 2011 05:48 Juxx wrote:
I think Mana Huk socke and others are much better than these protoss in GSL. MC only won because no one could stop his gimmicky void ray cheese and 4gating.
HAHA
huk is amazing
MC is totally amazing
mana and socke are top foreigners and maybe could compete in gsl but i don't think they are on the same level as huk or MC
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On January 19 2011 05:28 PrinceXizor wrote:
Tester is one of the most overrated protoss's in the GSL, He is rediculously predictable and stubborn and quite bad at decision making in terms of strategy. His strength is his mechanic skill (insane) his ability to make the most of what he has at the time (also insane) and his tendancy to try to overwhelm with economy (with a bit of success). His complete lack of understanding of the phases and threats of the game astound me though he knows so much abou tthe game but doesn't know the meanings it seems, and seeing his play this GSL explains alot to me why he didn't make it season 2 +3 and made me rewatch his GSL 1 games, which display the same mistakes, mistakes that seemed llike NOTHING compared to most of the players in GSL, but remain unfixed since then, it's kind of embarrassing, and kind of points to my conclusion that SC2 is a much more mental game than SC1, while SC1 was so heavily invested in knowledge of the game, preparation and raw skill, SC2 is more invested in split second decision making, intelligence, and ability to understand as much as possible about the game. Tester Has very high rating to me in the SC1 categories but definitely appears lacking in the SC2 categories.
(note: this in NO way implies that SC1 pros are stupid,only that SC2 is much more mental than sc1, and that the players at the top of SC1 are at the top because they exhibit all of the categories i mentioned, where low-mid level pros in sc1 may lack in the second categories similar to how low-mid level pros in sc2 lack in the first categories
Tester was actually pretty bad at brood war too.
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On January 19 2011 05:48 Juxx wrote:
I think Mana Huk socke and others are much better than these protoss in GSL. MC only won because no one could stop his gimmicky void ray cheese and 4gating.
i dont think that :D
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I think Mana Huk socke and others are much better than these protoss in GSL. MC only won because no one could stop his gimmicky void ray cheese and 4gating.
Why is it that people always repeat the same "key" words they hear, especially from casters (husky, tastosis, etc).
So what if it's gimmicky? No one could stop it. You said it yourself! Because of this he won. And in Starcraft 1/2, you should win if you're better.
Think of it this way: Everyone else lost just because no one could beat him.
Fair, no?
(Another phrase I feel is used wrongly, inappropriately, or incorrectly are "critical mass")
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Why are people actually coming up with Huk all the time?
He is a good protoss, no doubt.
But what did he achieve in Korea apart from ladder?
Nothing.
And why are people coming up with people like Socke or Mana?
They're not even dominant in europe, how do you think they could achieve anything in korea?
You can't compare them to genius / mc / choya (even if he's a fkin gimmicky player, he made it to code s ro8 and gsl3 ro8) / tester
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Because they are the best in Europe/USA. Or do YOU know better players? Of course it will be hard, no doubt. You also have to compare them to Code A first, we will see how they compete in that group. They can also learn a lot in korea.
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On January 19 2011 06:35 Elefanto wrote:
Why are people actually coming up with Huk all the time?
He is a good protoss, no doubt.
But what did he achieve in Korea apart from ladder?
Nothing.
And why are people coming up with people like Socke or Mana?
They're not even dominant in europe, how do you think they could achieve anything in korea?
You can't compare them to genius / mc / choya (even if he's a fkin gimmicky player, he made it to code s ro8 and gsl3 ro8) / tester
because i've watched his stream a lot and i know enough about sc2 to know that he is fuckin amazing
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On January 19 2011 06:35 Elefanto wrote:
Why are people actually coming up with Huk all the time?
He is a good protoss, no doubt.
But what did he achieve in Korea apart from ladder?
Nothing.
HuK has played against mc, genius, choya, nestea, IdrA many times and wins just over 50% of the time. He's not IMmvp, but he's on the same level as most of the Korean progamers. Ladder isn't everything (obviously), but it gives a decent idea of skill when you're playing against all the top Korean pros all the time.
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I don't want to take anything from huk, i also think he has much potential etc.
But as many koreans have shown, playing good in the ladder doesn't equally mean you'll be able to play like this at a greater tournament stage.
And there are players that are ridiculously better if they can prepare for a match compared to
play "blindly".
Before huk actually accomplishs anything in a bigger korean tournament i won't recognize him as
a player of mc / tester / genius caliber like so many are doing here : /
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On January 19 2011 07:09 stratman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 06:35 Elefanto wrote:
Why are people actually coming up with Huk all the time?
He is a good protoss, no doubt.
But what did he achieve in Korea apart from ladder?
Nothing.
HuK has played against mc, genius, choya, nestea, IdrA many times and wins just over 50% of the time. He's not IMmvp, but he's on the same level as most of the Korean progamers. Ladder isn't everything (obviously), but it gives a decent idea of skill when you're playing against all the top Korean pros all the time.
I can't watch his stream unfortunately thanks to my bad internet but i heard he actually beat mvp several times pretty handily.
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On January 19 2011 09:08 Thezzphai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 07:09 stratman wrote:On January 19 2011 06:35 Elefanto wrote:
Why are people actually coming up with Huk all the time?
He is a good protoss, no doubt.
But what did he achieve in Korea apart from ladder?
Nothing.
HuK has played against mc, genius, choya, nestea, IdrA many times and wins just over 50% of the time. He's not IMmvp, but he's on the same level as most of the Korean progamers. Ladder isn't everything (obviously), but it gives a decent idea of skill when you're playing against all the top Korean pros all the time. I can't watch his stream unfortunately thanks to my bad internet but i heard he actually beat mvp several times pretty handily.
He also lost to people who are x10 worse than him on the ladder.
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On January 19 2011 09:15 zerious wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 09:08 Thezzphai wrote:On January 19 2011 07:09 stratman wrote:On January 19 2011 06:35 Elefanto wrote:
Why are people actually coming up with Huk all the time?
He is a good protoss, no doubt.
But what did he achieve in Korea apart from ladder?
Nothing.
HuK has played against mc, genius, choya, nestea, IdrA many times and wins just over 50% of the time. He's not IMmvp, but he's on the same level as most of the Korean progamers. Ladder isn't everything (obviously), but it gives a decent idea of skill when you're playing against all the top Korean pros all the time. I can't watch his stream unfortunately thanks to my bad internet but i heard he actually beat mvp several times pretty handily. He also lost to people who are x10 worse than him on the ladder.
Moral of the story is ladder isn't an accurate measurement.
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On January 19 2011 09:20 rysecake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 09:15 zerious wrote:On January 19 2011 09:08 Thezzphai wrote:On January 19 2011 07:09 stratman wrote:On January 19 2011 06:35 Elefanto wrote:
Why are people actually coming up with Huk all the time?
He is a good protoss, no doubt.
But what did he achieve in Korea apart from ladder?
Nothing.
HuK has played against mc, genius, choya, nestea, IdrA many times and wins just over 50% of the time. He's not IMmvp, but he's on the same level as most of the Korean progamers. Ladder isn't everything (obviously), but it gives a decent idea of skill when you're playing against all the top Korean pros all the time. I can't watch his stream unfortunately thanks to my bad internet but i heard he actually beat mvp several times pretty handily. He also lost to people who are x10 worse than him on the ladder. Moral of the story is ladder isn't an accurate measurement.
Maybe qualifying for the GSL is?
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HuK is a consistently improving player that at this point in time practices 8 hours a day in a pro-house, something I doubt any other foreign protoss does. Give him a chance to show his skill in a foreign tournament after his practice has paid off and I have no doubt he will be one of, if not, the best.
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On January 19 2011 05:51 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 05:48 Juxx wrote:
I think Mana Huk socke and others are much better than these protoss in GSL. MC only won because no one could stop his gimmicky void ray cheese and 4gating. HAHA huk is amazing MC is totally amazing mana and socke are top foreigners and maybe could compete in gsl but i don't think they are on the same level as huk or MC
I will wait until I see it. Don't put Huk on the same page with MC please. It is comical to me.
Also just to let you guys know. Huk was a C/C+ level player tops on bw with sub par mechanics. He was good at microing things and playing ums maps but that's about it. What does it tell me? He will hit his ceiling mechanically very soon. His potential beyond what we've seen is fairly low. If you played bw for many years and weren't able to overcome some basic challenges you won't be able to claim a top spot on sc2 once it develops into a complex enough game for those differences to matter.
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On January 19 2011 09:40 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 09:20 rysecake wrote:On January 19 2011 09:15 zerious wrote:On January 19 2011 09:08 Thezzphai wrote:On January 19 2011 07:09 stratman wrote:On January 19 2011 06:35 Elefanto wrote:
Why are people actually coming up with Huk all the time?
He is a good protoss, no doubt.
But what did he achieve in Korea apart from ladder?
Nothing.
HuK has played against mc, genius, choya, nestea, IdrA many times and wins just over 50% of the time. He's not IMmvp, but he's on the same level as most of the Korean progamers. Ladder isn't everything (obviously), but it gives a decent idea of skill when you're playing against all the top Korean pros all the time. I can't watch his stream unfortunately thanks to my bad internet but i heard he actually beat mvp several times pretty handily. He also lost to people who are x10 worse than him on the ladder. Moral of the story is ladder isn't an accurate measurement. Maybe qualifying for the GSL is?
Not acurate != not meaninful, it simply means it's noisy, but at the top of the ladder, especially in korea, it's a little closer to a tournament environment (you effectively get longer series, can be forced to mix it up), than just some random scrub in master league even at like top 100-150 range.
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On January 19 2011 07:33 Elefanto wrote:
I don't want to take anything from huk, i also think he has much potential etc.
But as many koreans have shown, playing good in the ladder doesn't equally mean you'll be able to play like this at a greater tournament stage.
And there are players that are ridiculously better if they can prepare for a match compared to
play "blindly".
Before huk actually accomplishs anything in a bigger korean tournament i won't recognize him as
a player of mc / tester / genius caliber like so many are doing here : /
Are u confused o_O?
ofc noone would be recognized until they accomplished something....
everybody sees and know Liquid.Huk has potential to be one of the top protoss in the world.
hes practicing a lot and hard right now and will be participating in GSL soon.
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EPT
