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On January 17 2011 21:34 .kv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 21:27 Senx wrote:
This is so exciting, we'll either have a repeat champion ( nestea ) or our very first terran champion. This GSL is real good. or EGIdrA?
Win/win/win situation.
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On January 17 2011 22:02 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 21:52 MrCon wrote:On January 17 2011 21:41 syllogism wrote:On January 17 2011 21:38 MrCon wrote:On January 17 2011 21:34 .kv wrote:On January 17 2011 21:27 Senx wrote:
This is so exciting, we'll either have a repeat champion ( nestea ) or our very first terran champion. This GSL is real good. or EGIdrA? If by miracle he beats MKP (idra will beat nada if nada wins MKP), he'll never beat MVP or Nestea in the finals. And he still has to beat Jinro, who has a winning record against him. The path is still long for idra =) But bitbybit, GSLbyGSL, he goes farer each time. Nestea loses plenty of ZvZs so Idra definitely would have a chance against him. ZvT is hopeless though against someone like MVP. Also haha@Jinro's "winning record" against Idra Nestea loses plenty of ZvZ ? Where ? He's 8-0 in ZvZ vZ: 8-0 (100.00%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W W W W W W W http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/29_ZergBong No one can have that high winrate in ZvZ; the sample size isn't large enough and it's against only 3 players. Obviously he is the favourite probably against anyone currently in ZvZ, but it's extremely unlikely he wins more than 60-70% of his ZvZs against top opponents and he could have a bad day.
That's different from "Nestea loses plenty of ZvZ" already xD
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On January 17 2011 22:02 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 21:52 MrCon wrote:On January 17 2011 21:41 syllogism wrote:On January 17 2011 21:38 MrCon wrote:On January 17 2011 21:34 .kv wrote:On January 17 2011 21:27 Senx wrote:
This is so exciting, we'll either have a repeat champion ( nestea ) or our very first terran champion. This GSL is real good. or EGIdrA? If by miracle he beats MKP (idra will beat nada if nada wins MKP), he'll never beat MVP or Nestea in the finals. And he still has to beat Jinro, who has a winning record against him. The path is still long for idra =) But bitbybit, GSLbyGSL, he goes farer each time. Nestea loses plenty of ZvZs so Idra definitely would have a chance against him. ZvT is hopeless though against someone like MVP. Also haha@Jinro's "winning record" against Idra Nestea loses plenty of ZvZ ? Where ? He's 8-0 in ZvZ vZ: 8-0 (100.00%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W W W W W W W http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/29_ZergBong No one can have that high winrate in ZvZ; the sample size isn't large enough and it's against only 3 players. Obviously he is the favourite probably against anyone currently in ZvZ, but it's extremely unlikely he wins more than 60-70% of his ZvZs against top opponents and he could have a bad day.
I would definitely say NesTea's ZvZ far outclasses IdrA's ZvZ. Yes it's a small sample size, but it's quite a convincing one. Let's also not forget that NesTea also 3-0 Zenio who 2-0 IdrA. Obviously it's not 100% that he'll beat IdrA, but it would be hard-pressed to say the odds are in IdrA's favor.
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On January 17 2011 22:02 Providence wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 21:39 [Eternal]Phoenix wrote:
The MvP vs Tester games were simply an example of an already well-known problem with PvT. You cannot expand if T plays 1/1/1. You simply have to either allin and kill him early or get an obs and react to his army (which 99% of the time involves going colossus).
The problem with the marine/raven/banshee pushes is not just 1 problem, but a culmination of all of protoss' shortcomings and terrans' strength.
-Protoss has no capability of scouting a terran without getting a robo and and obs.
-Stalkers are really bad units in direct combat but you need them to stop any air, harass, or early pressure.
-The necessary counters to different units require teching in completely opposite directions, which is not possible while maintaining any sort of reasonable army.
-Mules allow terran to "supersaturate" and support more production on 1 base than they're supposed to be able to support
-Marines are ridiculously strong earlygame and are only dealt with by colossi and storm
-Banshee/marine kills equal costs of stalkers easily
-SCVs tank shots for zealots while allowing the ranged T army to dish out full damage from safety.
-T can literally make any combo of bio/factory/starport units and as long as they push on a good timing window and pull scvs protoss has little way to live if they expanded.
It's not just 1 specific allin that kills P FE's - it's any random assortment of units. It's difficult to scout from early on where, as a protoss, you have to decide whether to allin, play defensive 1 base, or FE.
SC2 TvP is stupid build order poker. I'm just thinking out loud here but, wouldn't hallucinate eliminate a great number of these problems?
not against some1 who brings a raven.
And alot of theory going on in this thread. Here is my 2 cents instead of a start port with 1 phoenix he should have gone twilight counsil with speedlots.and doing so open up the techpath to psistorm.
I am fully aware of the blue flame hellion and still i consider this better then a startport with a single phoenix.
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On January 17 2011 21:19 iGX wrote:
that's it...there's no protoss left in this tournament. choya, no one cares about him but Tester ><;;
MC and Tester were the last hopes of protoss. MC got to play some alright macro games but Tester i don't think played his A-game simply because as Tastosis once said in season 1: "no one wants to play a long game with Tester". MVP obviously took that macro chance from him at least in the 1st 2 games.
What MVP did was the right move if he wanted to move on to the semis. Every minute that goes by in that game against Tester, MVP's chances of winning is diminishing.
Sorry for sounding like a bit of a Tester fanboy but sue me, he was the last protoss left...you gotta give us some hope =\
It is funny that people always say that macro players are the best player.
My point, macro is the basic for pro gamer, if you can not do good economy management, and spend every penny you gain, you should not play any pro games. Theoretically, in professional matches, everybody is good at macro. Why so many players in GSL are not that good at macro is just because it is a new game, players are not good enough yet.
The difference between pro players should be reaction strategy, multi-tasking, and fast thinking.
To me, tester is always looks slow on reaction side.
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On January 17 2011 21:58 .kv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 21:42 Deckkie wrote:On January 17 2011 21:32 .kv wrote:On January 17 2011 21:23 Deckkie wrote:On January 17 2011 21:20 .kv wrote:On January 17 2011 21:15 Deckkie wrote:
Okey, I am obviously not a Protoss and think that this raven push is abnormally strong to the point that it could be broken. But I do want to point out that the Raven is pretty much at the end of the tech tree. Saying that its unfair that u need higher tech units to beat a t1 terran army just sounds so weird while there is a raven out. Please explain Ravens are 100 minerals and 200 gas Protoss has to get a robo bay whereas Terrans can switch their buildings and put the starport on a techlab. Colossus are 300/200 or Protoss has to get a twilight council then templar archives then research storm HTs are 50/175 Raven isn't at the end of the tech tree. The end of the tech tree for Starport is Battlecruisers its not the point I am trying to make. but I think in this argument u should consider that T needs to make an factorie (150/100) and a starport (150/100) and at least one tech lab (50/25) as well. ok well Protoss has to make a Robo (200/100) and a Robo Bay (200/200)/Twilight Council (150/100) and a Templar Archies (150/100) and Research Storm (200/200). And I'm excluding Cybernetics Core. true, so forgetting gateways and barracks for short range collosus u pay ccore 150 (if im correct) robo (200/100) and robo bay (200/200) = 550/300 or ccore (150), twilight council, (150/100), archives (150/100) and storm (200/200) = 650/400 terran makes: factorie (150/100) starport (150/100) I think around 3 techlabs (3x 50/25= 150/75) stim (100/100) and cshells (50/50) = 600/425 I dont see the difference. 3 tech labs for what? Terran needs only 2 for this timing push and short range collosus isn't what you want to fend off a MM push btw...I was just being generous...colossus shoot just as far as stalkers without range which makes them basically useless
yeah I would basicly say three tech labs. Otherwise I dont think you will hae enough marouders. and when close range collosus wont work I guess it has to be ht's.
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On January 17 2011 21:32 .kv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 21:23 Deckkie wrote:On January 17 2011 21:20 .kv wrote:On January 17 2011 21:15 Deckkie wrote:
Okey, I am obviously not a Protoss and think that this raven push is abnormally strong to the point that it could be broken. But I do want to point out that the Raven is pretty much at the end of the tech tree. Saying that its unfair that u need higher tech units to beat a t1 terran army just sounds so weird while there is a raven out. Please explain Ravens are 100 minerals and 200 gas Protoss has to get a robo bay whereas Terrans can switch their buildings and put the starport on a techlab. Colossus are 300/200 or Protoss has to get a twilight council then templar archives then research storm HTs are 50/175 Raven isn't at the end of the tech tree. The end of the tech tree for Starport is Battlecruisers its not the point I am trying to make. but I think in this argument u should consider that T needs to make an factorie (150/100) and a starport (150/100) and at least one tech lab (50/25) as well. ok well Protoss has to make a Robo (200/100) and a Robo Bay (200/200)/Twilight Council (150/100) and a Templar Archives (150/100) and Research Storm (200/200). And I'm excluding Cybernetics Core.
And research Thermal Lance that's another 200/200 if you go the Colossus route and this btw takes forever. Protoss has to make a Robo no matter what for observers.
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Disappointing games today. Really. And it is not because all Protosses are out.
Nestea was way better than Choya and watching choya do all these fancy pushes all the time which is kidna do or die, is not fun to watch at all. We have seen some great and exciting macro games in all match-ups, but today was just brutally bad.
Two 3-0s with no tension at all. Well that is not that bad, but the games were not even entertaining at all. One base Terran timing pushes versus Protoss early expand, and an all-in P getting torn apart by Nestea. Wow.
Poor Protoss performance, unexciting games. However, I guess those who deserved to advance, advanced in the end so congrats to Nestea and MVP.
But I really hope that tomorrow we are going to see some awesome games. One thing is for sure: Jinro versus IdrA is gonna be EPIC!
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On January 17 2011 22:09 betaV1.25 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 22:02 Providence wrote:On January 17 2011 21:39 [Eternal]Phoenix wrote:
The MvP vs Tester games were simply an example of an already well-known problem with PvT. You cannot expand if T plays 1/1/1. You simply have to either allin and kill him early or get an obs and react to his army (which 99% of the time involves going colossus).
The problem with the marine/raven/banshee pushes is not just 1 problem, but a culmination of all of protoss' shortcomings and terrans' strength.
-Protoss has no capability of scouting a terran without getting a robo and and obs.
-Stalkers are really bad units in direct combat but you need them to stop any air, harass, or early pressure.
-The necessary counters to different units require teching in completely opposite directions, which is not possible while maintaining any sort of reasonable army.
-Mules allow terran to "supersaturate" and support more production on 1 base than they're supposed to be able to support
-Marines are ridiculously strong earlygame and are only dealt with by colossi and storm
-Banshee/marine kills equal costs of stalkers easily
-SCVs tank shots for zealots while allowing the ranged T army to dish out full damage from safety.
-T can literally make any combo of bio/factory/starport units and as long as they push on a good timing window and pull scvs protoss has little way to live if they expanded.
It's not just 1 specific allin that kills P FE's - it's any random assortment of units. It's difficult to scout from early on where, as a protoss, you have to decide whether to allin, play defensive 1 base, or FE.
SC2 TvP is stupid build order poker. I'm just thinking out loud here but, wouldn't hallucinate eliminate a great number of these problems? not against some1 who brings a raven. And alot of theory going on in this thread. Here is my 2 cents instead of a start port with 1 phoenix he should have gone twilight counsil with speedlots.and doing so open up the techpath to psistorm. I am fully aware of the blue flame hellion and still i consider this better then a startport with a single phoenix.
It might also be worth factoring in the recent SCV change to this situation as well. Because SCV priority is now the same as what they're repairing, as soon as the Hellions started taking damage (I'm thinking of the MVP v Trickster game on Xel'naga here) and getting repaired, everything that was attacking them (not just Stalkers) will start attacking the SCVs. SCVs have practically turned into a mobile PDD that works on everything with the change, and it means the Terran army lasts that much longer in a fight. I feel as though Blizzard are damned if they do and damned if they don't in regards to SCV priority. On the one hand Thors, on the other hand mobile PDD.
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On January 17 2011 21:39 [Eternal]Phoenix wrote:
The MvP vs Tester games were simply an example of an already well-known problem with PvT. You cannot expand if T plays 1/1/1. You simply have to either allin and kill him early or get an obs and react to his army (which 99% of the time involves going colossus).
Ad you forgot to add: T can not expand when protoss builds goes 4gate / 3gate robo.
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On January 17 2011 22:09 betaV1.25 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 22:02 Providence wrote:On January 17 2011 21:39 [Eternal]Phoenix wrote:
The MvP vs Tester games were simply an example of an already well-known problem with PvT. You cannot expand if T plays 1/1/1. You simply have to either allin and kill him early or get an obs and react to his army (which 99% of the time involves going colossus).
The problem with the marine/raven/banshee pushes is not just 1 problem, but a culmination of all of protoss' shortcomings and terrans' strength.
-Protoss has no capability of scouting a terran without getting a robo and and obs.
-Stalkers are really bad units in direct combat but you need them to stop any air, harass, or early pressure.
-The necessary counters to different units require teching in completely opposite directions, which is not possible while maintaining any sort of reasonable army.
-Mules allow terran to "supersaturate" and support more production on 1 base than they're supposed to be able to support
-Marines are ridiculously strong earlygame and are only dealt with by colossi and storm
-Banshee/marine kills equal costs of stalkers easily
-SCVs tank shots for zealots while allowing the ranged T army to dish out full damage from safety.
-T can literally make any combo of bio/factory/starport units and as long as they push on a good timing window and pull scvs protoss has little way to live if they expanded.
It's not just 1 specific allin that kills P FE's - it's any random assortment of units. It's difficult to scout from early on where, as a protoss, you have to decide whether to allin, play defensive 1 base, or FE.
SC2 TvP is stupid build order poker. I'm just thinking out loud here but, wouldn't hallucinate eliminate a great number of these problems? not against some1 who brings a raven. And alot of theory going on in this thread. Here is my 2 cents instead of a start port with 1 phoenix he should have gone twilight counsil with speedlots.and doing so open up the techpath to psistorm. I am fully aware of the blue flame hellion and still i consider this better then a startport with a single phoenix.
Ravens detect hallucinated units, but it doesn't mean those units can't buffer hits. In addition, hallucinated unit attacks drain PDD energy, and allows faster scouting than committing to robo tech. The obvious weakness would be really really fast cloaked banshees, but it's possible the timing might still work out.
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On January 17 2011 22:11 hydraden wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 21:19 iGX wrote:
that's it...there's no protoss left in this tournament. choya, no one cares about him but Tester ><;;
MC and Tester were the last hopes of protoss. MC got to play some alright macro games but Tester i don't think played his A-game simply because as Tastosis once said in season 1: "no one wants to play a long game with Tester". MVP obviously took that macro chance from him at least in the 1st 2 games.
What MVP did was the right move if he wanted to move on to the semis. Every minute that goes by in that game against Tester, MVP's chances of winning is diminishing.
Sorry for sounding like a bit of a Tester fanboy but sue me, he was the last protoss left...you gotta give us some hope =\ It is funny that people always say that macro players are the best player. My point, macro is the basic for pro gamer, if you can not do good economy management, and spend every penny you gain, you should not play any pro games. Theoretically, in professional matches, everybody is good at macro. Why so many players in GSL are not that good at macro is just because it is a new game, players are not good enough yet. The difference between pro players should be reaction strategy, multi-tasking, and fast thinking. To me, tester is always looks slow on reaction side.
Did you not see his key FFs on MVP's Hellion drops on Xel Naga...absolutely on point...guaranteed majority of the protoss players would've moved their entire army at those 2 hellions acting as bait and leaving their main open for Hellion harassment
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On January 17 2011 22:07 Providence wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 22:02 syllogism wrote:On January 17 2011 21:52 MrCon wrote:On January 17 2011 21:41 syllogism wrote:On January 17 2011 21:38 MrCon wrote:On January 17 2011 21:34 .kv wrote:On January 17 2011 21:27 Senx wrote:
This is so exciting, we'll either have a repeat champion ( nestea ) or our very first terran champion. This GSL is real good. or EGIdrA? If by miracle he beats MKP (idra will beat nada if nada wins MKP), he'll never beat MVP or Nestea in the finals. And he still has to beat Jinro, who has a winning record against him. The path is still long for idra =) But bitbybit, GSLbyGSL, he goes farer each time. Nestea loses plenty of ZvZs so Idra definitely would have a chance against him. ZvT is hopeless though against someone like MVP. Also haha@Jinro's "winning record" against Idra Nestea loses plenty of ZvZ ? Where ? He's 8-0 in ZvZ vZ: 8-0 (100.00%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W W W W W W W http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/29_ZergBong No one can have that high winrate in ZvZ; the sample size isn't large enough and it's against only 3 players. Obviously he is the favourite probably against anyone currently in ZvZ, but it's extremely unlikely he wins more than 60-70% of his ZvZs against top opponents and he could have a bad day. I would definitely say NesTea's ZvZ far outclasses IdrA's ZvZ. Yes it's a small sample size, but it's quite a convincing one. Let's also not forget that NesTea also 3-0 Zenio who 2-0 IdrA. Obviously it's not 100% that he'll beat IdrA, but it would be hard-pressed to say the odds are in IdrA's favor.
Yeah, Idra has about the same chance to win against MVP than he has against Nestea imo. But he still has Jinro and MKP/Nada on his way. As I said, I'm sure he can beat Nada, because TvZ uses a very different skillset than TvP or TvT, and I don't feel Nada is good enough in this skillset yet (somewhat like Boxer). But if he beat MKP I would be very proud and surprised.
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On January 17 2011 22:07 Providence wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 22:02 syllogism wrote:On January 17 2011 21:52 MrCon wrote:On January 17 2011 21:41 syllogism wrote:On January 17 2011 21:38 MrCon wrote:On January 17 2011 21:34 .kv wrote:On January 17 2011 21:27 Senx wrote:
This is so exciting, we'll either have a repeat champion ( nestea ) or our very first terran champion. This GSL is real good. or EGIdrA? If by miracle he beats MKP (idra will beat nada if nada wins MKP), he'll never beat MVP or Nestea in the finals. And he still has to beat Jinro, who has a winning record against him. The path is still long for idra =) But bitbybit, GSLbyGSL, he goes farer each time. Nestea loses plenty of ZvZs so Idra definitely would have a chance against him. ZvT is hopeless though against someone like MVP. Also haha@Jinro's "winning record" against Idra Nestea loses plenty of ZvZ ? Where ? He's 8-0 in ZvZ vZ: 8-0 (100.00%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W W W W W W W http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/29_ZergBong No one can have that high winrate in ZvZ; the sample size isn't large enough and it's against only 3 players. Obviously he is the favourite probably against anyone currently in ZvZ, but it's extremely unlikely he wins more than 60-70% of his ZvZs against top opponents and he could have a bad day. I would definitely say NesTea's ZvZ far outclasses IdrA's ZvZ. Yes it's a small sample size, but it's quite a convincing one. Let's also not forget that NesTea also 3-0 Zenio who 2-0 IdrA. Obviously it's not 100% that he'll beat IdrA, but it would be hard-pressed to say the odds are in IdrA's favor.
When IdrA played Zenio he had no real practice with ZvZ. I think he has a very good shot at taking out NesTea now, since he is practicing with FruitDealer and Ret.
I think neither IdrA nor NesTea will make it to the finals though.
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On January 17 2011 22:15 branflakes14 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 22:09 betaV1.25 wrote:On January 17 2011 22:02 Providence wrote:On January 17 2011 21:39 [Eternal]Phoenix wrote:
The MvP vs Tester games were simply an example of an already well-known problem with PvT. You cannot expand if T plays 1/1/1. You simply have to either allin and kill him early or get an obs and react to his army (which 99% of the time involves going colossus).
The problem with the marine/raven/banshee pushes is not just 1 problem, but a culmination of all of protoss' shortcomings and terrans' strength.
-Protoss has no capability of scouting a terran without getting a robo and and obs.
-Stalkers are really bad units in direct combat but you need them to stop any air, harass, or early pressure.
-The necessary counters to different units require teching in completely opposite directions, which is not possible while maintaining any sort of reasonable army.
-Mules allow terran to "supersaturate" and support more production on 1 base than they're supposed to be able to support
-Marines are ridiculously strong earlygame and are only dealt with by colossi and storm
-Banshee/marine kills equal costs of stalkers easily
-SCVs tank shots for zealots while allowing the ranged T army to dish out full damage from safety.
-T can literally make any combo of bio/factory/starport units and as long as they push on a good timing window and pull scvs protoss has little way to live if they expanded.
It's not just 1 specific allin that kills P FE's - it's any random assortment of units. It's difficult to scout from early on where, as a protoss, you have to decide whether to allin, play defensive 1 base, or FE.
SC2 TvP is stupid build order poker. I'm just thinking out loud here but, wouldn't hallucinate eliminate a great number of these problems? not against some1 who brings a raven. And alot of theory going on in this thread. Here is my 2 cents instead of a start port with 1 phoenix he should have gone twilight counsil with speedlots.and doing so open up the techpath to psistorm. I am fully aware of the blue flame hellion and still i consider this better then a startport with a single phoenix. It might also be worth factoring in the recent SCV change to this situation as well. Because SCV priority is now the same as what they're repairing, as soon as the Hellions started taking damage (I'm thinking of the MVP v Trickster game on Xel'naga here) and getting repaired, everything that was attacking them (not just Stalkers) will start attacking the SCVs. SCVs have practically turned into a mobile PDD that works on everything with the change, and it means the Terran army lasts that much longer in a fight. I feel as though Blizzard are damned if they do and damned if they don't in regards to SCV priority. On the one hand Thors, on the other hand mobile PDD.
It forces you to go all in though. Had Tester been able to hold off that attacking, even while losing the nexus, he would have been seriously ahead.
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On January 17 2011 22:21 DizzyDrone wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 22:07 Providence wrote:On January 17 2011 22:02 syllogism wrote:On January 17 2011 21:52 MrCon wrote:On January 17 2011 21:41 syllogism wrote:On January 17 2011 21:38 MrCon wrote:On January 17 2011 21:34 .kv wrote:On January 17 2011 21:27 Senx wrote:
This is so exciting, we'll either have a repeat champion ( nestea ) or our very first terran champion. This GSL is real good. or EGIdrA? If by miracle he beats MKP (idra will beat nada if nada wins MKP), he'll never beat MVP or Nestea in the finals. And he still has to beat Jinro, who has a winning record against him. The path is still long for idra =) But bitbybit, GSLbyGSL, he goes farer each time. Nestea loses plenty of ZvZs so Idra definitely would have a chance against him. ZvT is hopeless though against someone like MVP. Also haha@Jinro's "winning record" against Idra Nestea loses plenty of ZvZ ? Where ? He's 8-0 in ZvZ vZ: 8-0 (100.00%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W W W W W W W http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/29_ZergBong No one can have that high winrate in ZvZ; the sample size isn't large enough and it's against only 3 players. Obviously he is the favourite probably against anyone currently in ZvZ, but it's extremely unlikely he wins more than 60-70% of his ZvZs against top opponents and he could have a bad day. I would definitely say NesTea's ZvZ far outclasses IdrA's ZvZ. Yes it's a small sample size, but it's quite a convincing one. Let's also not forget that NesTea also 3-0 Zenio who 2-0 IdrA. Obviously it's not 100% that he'll beat IdrA, but it would be hard-pressed to say the odds are in IdrA's favor. When IdrA played Zenio he had no real practice with ZvZ. I think he has a very good shot at taking out NesTea now, since he is practicing with FruitDealer and Ret. I think neither IdrA nor NesTea will make it to the finals though.
I'm not sure this is true--IdrA definitely had his builds prepared, which certainly suggests he had practiced them. I don't remember anywhere IdrA even claiming he had no real practice in ZvZ.
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On January 17 2011 22:23 Providence wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 22:21 DizzyDrone wrote:On January 17 2011 22:07 Providence wrote:On January 17 2011 22:02 syllogism wrote:On January 17 2011 21:52 MrCon wrote:On January 17 2011 21:41 syllogism wrote:On January 17 2011 21:38 MrCon wrote:On January 17 2011 21:34 .kv wrote:On January 17 2011 21:27 Senx wrote:
This is so exciting, we'll either have a repeat champion ( nestea ) or our very first terran champion. This GSL is real good. or EGIdrA? If by miracle he beats MKP (idra will beat nada if nada wins MKP), he'll never beat MVP or Nestea in the finals. And he still has to beat Jinro, who has a winning record against him. The path is still long for idra =) But bitbybit, GSLbyGSL, he goes farer each time. Nestea loses plenty of ZvZs so Idra definitely would have a chance against him. ZvT is hopeless though against someone like MVP. Also haha@Jinro's "winning record" against Idra Nestea loses plenty of ZvZ ? Where ? He's 8-0 in ZvZ vZ: 8-0 (100.00%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W W W W W W W http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/29_ZergBong No one can have that high winrate in ZvZ; the sample size isn't large enough and it's against only 3 players. Obviously he is the favourite probably against anyone currently in ZvZ, but it's extremely unlikely he wins more than 60-70% of his ZvZs against top opponents and he could have a bad day. I would definitely say NesTea's ZvZ far outclasses IdrA's ZvZ. Yes it's a small sample size, but it's quite a convincing one. Let's also not forget that NesTea also 3-0 Zenio who 2-0 IdrA. Obviously it's not 100% that he'll beat IdrA, but it would be hard-pressed to say the odds are in IdrA's favor. When IdrA played Zenio he had no real practice with ZvZ. I think he has a very good shot at taking out NesTea now, since he is practicing with FruitDealer and Ret. I think neither IdrA nor NesTea will make it to the finals though. I'm not sure this is true--IdrA definitely had his builds prepared, which certainly suggests he had practiced them. I don't remember anywhere IdrA even claiming he had no real practice in ZvZ.
http://twitter.com/idrajit/status/28874560477
anyone know how to zvz?
2:42 AM Oct 27th, 2010 via web
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On January 17 2011 22:23 Providence wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 22:21 DizzyDrone wrote:On January 17 2011 22:07 Providence wrote:On January 17 2011 22:02 syllogism wrote:On January 17 2011 21:52 MrCon wrote:On January 17 2011 21:41 syllogism wrote:On January 17 2011 21:38 MrCon wrote:On January 17 2011 21:34 .kv wrote:On January 17 2011 21:27 Senx wrote:
This is so exciting, we'll either have a repeat champion ( nestea ) or our very first terran champion. This GSL is real good. or EGIdrA? If by miracle he beats MKP (idra will beat nada if nada wins MKP), he'll never beat MVP or Nestea in the finals. And he still has to beat Jinro, who has a winning record against him. The path is still long for idra =) But bitbybit, GSLbyGSL, he goes farer each time. Nestea loses plenty of ZvZs so Idra definitely would have a chance against him. ZvT is hopeless though against someone like MVP. Also haha@Jinro's "winning record" against Idra Nestea loses plenty of ZvZ ? Where ? He's 8-0 in ZvZ vZ: 8-0 (100.00%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W W W W W W W http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/29_ZergBong No one can have that high winrate in ZvZ; the sample size isn't large enough and it's against only 3 players. Obviously he is the favourite probably against anyone currently in ZvZ, but it's extremely unlikely he wins more than 60-70% of his ZvZs against top opponents and he could have a bad day. I would definitely say NesTea's ZvZ far outclasses IdrA's ZvZ. Yes it's a small sample size, but it's quite a convincing one. Let's also not forget that NesTea also 3-0 Zenio who 2-0 IdrA. Obviously it's not 100% that he'll beat IdrA, but it would be hard-pressed to say the odds are in IdrA's favor. When IdrA played Zenio he had no real practice with ZvZ. I think he has a very good shot at taking out NesTea now, since he is practicing with FruitDealer and Ret. I think neither IdrA nor NesTea will make it to the finals though. I'm not sure this is true--IdrA definitely had his builds prepared, which certainly suggests he had practiced them. I don't remember anywhere IdrA even claiming he had no real practice in ZvZ.
http://twitter.com/#!/idrajit/status/28874560477
as far as I know there just weren't enough top zergs for him to practice his zvz on the ladder
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On January 17 2011 22:19 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 22:07 Providence wrote:On January 17 2011 22:02 syllogism wrote:On January 17 2011 21:52 MrCon wrote:On January 17 2011 21:41 syllogism wrote:On January 17 2011 21:38 MrCon wrote:On January 17 2011 21:34 .kv wrote:On January 17 2011 21:27 Senx wrote:
This is so exciting, we'll either have a repeat champion ( nestea ) or our very first terran champion. This GSL is real good. or EGIdrA? If by miracle he beats MKP (idra will beat nada if nada wins MKP), he'll never beat MVP or Nestea in the finals. And he still has to beat Jinro, who has a winning record against him. The path is still long for idra =) But bitbybit, GSLbyGSL, he goes farer each time. Nestea loses plenty of ZvZs so Idra definitely would have a chance against him. ZvT is hopeless though against someone like MVP. Also haha@Jinro's "winning record" against Idra Nestea loses plenty of ZvZ ? Where ? He's 8-0 in ZvZ vZ: 8-0 (100.00%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W W W W W W W W http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/29_ZergBong No one can have that high winrate in ZvZ; the sample size isn't large enough and it's against only 3 players. Obviously he is the favourite probably against anyone currently in ZvZ, but it's extremely unlikely he wins more than 60-70% of his ZvZs against top opponents and he could have a bad day. I would definitely say NesTea's ZvZ far outclasses IdrA's ZvZ. Yes it's a small sample size, but it's quite a convincing one. Let's also not forget that NesTea also 3-0 Zenio who 2-0 IdrA. Obviously it's not 100% that he'll beat IdrA, but it would be hard-pressed to say the odds are in IdrA's favor. Yeah, Idra has about the same chance to win against MVP than he has against Nestea imo. But he still has Jinro and MKP/Nada on his way. As I said, I'm sure he can beat Nada, because TvZ uses a very different skillset than TvP or TvT, and I don't feel Nada is good enough in this skillset yet (somewhat like Boxer). But if he beat MKP I would be very proud and surprised.
NaDa's TvZ is excellent. He demonstrated Macro Terran against Leenock in season 2 quite convincingly. He'll definitely make IdrA work very hard for his win.
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EPT
