EPT1. Every single move made in a starcraft-game pre 31:24 minutes is a called cheesing.
2. Every attacking move is renamed to "Going all in".
This should probably be locked on the first page to stop 97% of the disagreements on the forum.
[/sarcasm]
[GSL] S3 Ro4 Day 2 - Page 128
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TheBanana
Norway2183 Posts
1. Every single move made in a starcraft-game pre 31:24 minutes is a called cheesing. 2. Every attacking move is renamed to "Going all in". This should probably be locked on the first page to stop 97% of the disagreements on the forum. [/sarcasm] | ||
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ghostsquall
United States187 Posts
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Veritassong
Canada393 Posts
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cordlc
United States360 Posts
On December 11 2010 01:44 Oscatron wrote: jinro is a better terran than rain and mc dominated jinro What makes you say this? Regardless of how Rain obtained his wins (cheese, all-ins or whatnot), he's had an extremely tough path to the finals. Nestea, Genius, and maybe HongUn are all top-level players. The best we've seen Jinro up against is maybe choya, whom he had lots of trouble with, someone who may not even as good as ST_Squirtle (another toss Rain beat). I can understand hating on a certain type of playstyle (early aggression), but give credit where it's due. I myself dislike how MarineKing plays, but I fully acknowledge that he's easily one of the top Terrans in the world. Have you not considered that just maybe, Rain will use his "cheese" builds on MC, and MC will fall to them? (I hope not, but I'm sure he might take it to Game 6 or so) As for disappointment in how today's games played out, I agree with not enjoying all-in plays or rock-paper-scissor matches, but that just wasn't the case in this series. To be blunt, Jinro was at fault for losing, so stop trying to put the blame everywhere else. Just look at the games: G1: Jinro sees the gateway chrono'd (long before cyber), but still wasn't prepared for it, between adding a proxy factory afterward and mismicro. G2: Jinro doesn't put out any early pressure whatsoever, gets punished for it. G3: Same with game 2. Leaving Toss alone is not unlike leaving Zerg alone, it's a bad idea (unless you know you can manage what they're doing). Terran is strongest early, this should be capitalized on. G4: Jinro went for a risky build here, but one less mistake and he may have won it. | ||
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ZeNd0kUn
United States331 Posts
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SidianTheBard
United States2475 Posts
Everybody is like oh MC will blow Rain out of the water, but he has shown he can take down great protoss players so I really don't think MC will have it as easy as you all think. I do want MC to win because I am a toss player so I'm biased and i think MC is a great toss player. BUT I do feel like Rain is going to take the finals 4-2. | ||
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Contagious
United States1319 Posts
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imPERSONater
United States1324 Posts
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ZeNd0kUn
United States331 Posts
On December 11 2010 02:56 SidianTheBard wrote: Yup people are thinking Rain is a pushover. I'm expecting 2 rush attacks colliding and tapering off into a Macro game similar to what happened in MC vs MarineKing games. And I think some all in attacks from Rain will win a game or 2 against MC. I may be wrong but still can't wait to watch the finals and plus Junkka did mention some surprise for foreign players. | ||
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flanksteak
Canada246 Posts
If you hypothetically trained so much that you KNEW going all-in against a particular build would almost guarantee the win, then why not? Again, giving GSL players the benefit of the doubt here, but say you've become so good at recognizing when a certain build is vulnerable, and you know you could capitalize and win outright. I don't see anything wrong with that. | ||
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Phrencys
Canada270 Posts
That was so one-sided that it felt like a Gold player got mismatched against a 2.4k Diamond. MC played pretty standard every single game, yet every time he pushed he destroyed his opponent. WTH happened? | ||
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riverkim09
United States291 Posts
I'm sure everyone said the same b4 Rain vs NesTea match and we all know how that worked out. | ||
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DaRKMaTT3r
Brazil553 Posts
On December 11 2010 02:47 cordlc wrote: What makes you say this? Regardless of how Rain obtained his wins (cheese, all-ins or whatnot), he's had an extremely tough path to the finals. Nestea, Genius, and maybe HongUn are all top-level players. The best we've seen Jinro up against is maybe choya, whom he had lots of trouble with, someone who may not even as good as ST_Squirtle (another toss Rain beat). I can understand hating on a certain type of playstyle (early aggression), but give credit where it's due. I myself dislike how MarineKing plays, but I fully acknowledge that he's easily one of the top Terrans in the world. Have you not considered that just maybe, Rain will use his "cheese" builds on MC, and MC will fall to them? (I hope not, but I'm sure he might take it to Game 6 or so) As for disappointment in how today's games played out, I agree with not enjoying all-in plays or rock-paper-scissor matches, but that just wasn't the case in this series. To be blunt, Jinro was at fault for losing, so stop trying to put the blame everywhere else. Just look at the games: G1: Jinro sees the gateway chrono'd (long before cyber), but still wasn't prepared for it, between adding a proxy factory afterward and mismicro. G2: Jinro doesn't put out any early pressure whatsoever, gets punished for it. G3: Same with game 2. Leaving Toss alone is not unlike leaving Zerg alone, it's a bad idea (unless you know you can manage what they're doing). Terran is strongest early, this should be capitalized on. G4: Jinro went for a risky build here, but one less mistake and he may have won it. It's probably because TSL_Rain just feels like pretty much every other regular Terran from GSL (not sure you can call a terran on GSL Level that way), most of his cheeses are just a copy of what MarineKing started but executed with way less impressive micro. While Jinro actually is one of few terrans who did very odd/new things on this GSL, when people always say that going macro games against zerg on end game is foolish he did it and won in a very convincing way. Jinro playing have Jinro's signature on most of his plays, while TSL_Rain playing is like MarineKing aggresive no gas openings/marauder rush+Timmed 2 base attacks hybrid like so many terrans did on this GSL. If he dominated MarineKing and Jinro don't see how TSL_Rain would come up differently, unless he does something completely unseen. | ||
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SidianTheBard
United States2475 Posts
Thanks! | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On December 11 2010 02:47 cordlc wrote: What makes you say this? Regardless of how Rain obtained his wins (cheese, all-ins or whatnot), he's had an extremely tough path to the finals. Nestea, Genius, and maybe HongUn are all top-level players. The best we've seen Jinro up against is maybe choya, whom he had lots of trouble with, someone who may not even as good as ST_Squirtle (another toss Rain beat). You can't analyze it just by listing the names. That's meaningless. If you want to look at it completely out of context like that, in the last 3 rounds Jinro beat an RTS pro gamer legend, a solid regular GSL player who knocked out the most legendary player ever, and a guy who was until recently #1 on Korean ladder (I'm unsure about this, I did catch somebody saying that on TL, so don't call me out on this one). Then he lost against the most dominating PvT player and probably the best player in the world right now. None of the guys Rain beat were at the top of their game and HongUn is by no means a top level player. Most importantly, what he actually showed in these games wasn't anywhere near impressive, disregarding any personal dislikes for "aggression" and all (which I don't really have myself). | ||
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Bogeyman
Sweden307 Posts
On December 11 2010 02:47 cordlc wrote: [...] G1: Jinro sees the gateway chrono'd (long before cyber), but still wasn't prepared for it, between adding a proxy factory afterward and mismicro. G2: Jinro doesn't put out any early pressure whatsoever, gets punished for it. G3: Same with game 2. Leaving Toss alone is not unlike leaving Zerg alone, it's a bad idea (unless you know you can manage what they're doing). Terran is strongest early, this should be capitalized on. G4: Jinro went for a risky build here, but one less mistake and he may have won it. What you said there (highlighted with bold text) reminds me of what I've heard commentators say about Jinro before: He wasn't that successful in the beta and pretty much up until MLG Dallas because (supposedly) Jinro has been trying to play the game right and learning how to play it right rather than abusing the current balance situation. Maybe that's still what he's doing? Like you said, right now Terran is strongest in the early game, and Protoss catches up in the later stages. Blizzard have said that they don't want it to work like that, but rather that it should be an even match-up from the early game to the late game. So maybe once the balance is tweaked and all, not putting early pressure on the Protoss when both sides are expanding (like in game 2) isn't absolutely wrong. It's a nice idea, but for most intents and purposes just idealizing. Perhaps there's some truth to it though? Jinro doesn't exactly cheese a lot. Personally I'd have been afraid to move out in game 2 even with some heavier production before the expand went down, given the "amazing forcefields" (not downplaying their effectiveness or anything, but I'm a bit tired of commentators shouting "amazing forcefields") at MCs disposal. | ||
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
He made it to Ro4 ffs, that's an amazing achievement. MC just happens to be the best PvT player in the world. Go DIAF if you shit on Jinro for losing. | ||
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luvyahuni
Vietnam21 Posts
Then it comes down to watchability. I love watching GSL more than any other starcraft 2 tournaments MSL, Gosugamers, ... because of constant action from very beginning. I don't like to watch 20 min macro game + 1 big battle. It's just my taste. | ||
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Headshot
United States1656 Posts
On December 11 2010 03:20 luvyahuni wrote:Then it comes down to watchability. I love watching GSL more than any other starcraft 2 tournaments MSL, Gosugamers, ... because of constant action from very beginning. I don't like to watch 20 min macro game + 1 big battle. It's just my taste. You've obviously never watched an MSL, or OSL. Macro games in BW are hardly ever won by a single, defining battle due to the larger maps. There is always aggression and skirmishes happening all over the map to harass and gain slight advantages. SC2 desperately needs better maps and someone needs to take the first step to making this happen. | ||
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gurrpp
United States437 Posts
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