• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 09:31
CET 15:31
KST 23:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners11Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada2SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4
StarCraft 2
General
Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada Craziest Micro Moments Of All Time? RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close"
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions Where's CardinalAllin/Jukado the mapmaker?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1905 users

GSL Season 3 predictions using statistics - Page 4

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
kazansky
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany931 Posts
December 09 2010 13:38 GMT
#61
You must take in account that "Player A is better than Player B" does not ensure "Player A beats Player B". But the more historical data you have, the more you can take in account indicators for when the one or the other player wins.

You should be aware that it is high likely that the model in its current state, as far as I understand it, will not converge. Mainly because players at the best don't have a distinct probability of winning but more a set or even range of measures as probabilities.

And another point is that the eveness of comparison of two players depends on the granularity of the model.

You don't need very far apart skill levels to reach a very high prediction score. The model just needs to take in account the most relevant data possible. Which means more, and more precise, data.

That is what I meant with "if you keep the work up", you need to gain much knowledge and add a ridiculous account of parameters about the game state if you want to be really on spot with predictions.

Your model is a quite good start off, but it will naturally reach its limits hence to minor-dimensioness and cardinality of data sets, two different factors of course.

And it definitely helps when the game is so far figured out that players stuck to their guns rather then gamble, obviously, aswell (technically spoken: variance) :-)

If you are keen in expanding this project further I would love helping you to figure out further improvements of the model, although I must admit my focus point is game theory so my experience and knowledge is limited.
"Mathematicians don't understand mathematics, they get used to it." - Prof. Kredler || "That was more one-sided that a mobius strip." - Tasteless
Mip
Profile Joined June 2010
United States63 Posts
December 09 2010 18:07 GMT
#62
I believe the concept "Player A is better than Player B" does not ensure "Player A beats Player B" was the entire substance of my last post on how the skill system calculates the win percentage.

You'll have to be more specific on what you mean by "converge." The skill parameters will most definitely converge under the current model. The probability of a player winning will not, and I don't expect it to. Assuming perfect predictability assumes that players will always make predictable decisions. Even late into Brood War, people made risky decisions to try and pull off an extra win. Players always have the decision to go fast/all-in or slow/macro or anywhere in between.



If a player is 95% predictable, then their opponent is going to snipe build whatever they do. If the opponent is savvy of this, they will counter the snipe build, and the head games go on until you have no idea exactly which player is going to do what, thus leading to uncertainty of individual games outcomes.

I think it would help me if you spoke in more specific terms. Explain what the situation would look like where I could know exactly who was going to win because I just don't see that ever being the case. I can't imagine the game reducing to be so one-dimensional so it would help to have this explained to me.
Mip
Profile Joined June 2010
United States63 Posts
December 09 2010 18:09 GMT
#63
Also, to anyone reading this, if anyone has some good parsing skills, the TeamLiquid Database is awesome, it has player names, races, maps, and tournament and maybe some other stuff, I don't remember. If someone could help me figure out how to extract all that information in bulk, I could leap this project forward a considerable amount.
kazansky
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany931 Posts
December 09 2010 20:08 GMT
#64
I mean for example you can expand the function with recent match history, matchup and stuff like that. It just is quite hard to figure out how to weight these parameters though to gain accuracy instead of losing it.

highly mathematical inside
+ Show Spoiler +

mathematically, your function is
h = g(f(x,y)),
g : Q -> {0,1} "winner function"
f : R x R -> [0,1] "match function"
x,y being the Players parameters.
R, Q, N as usual

what I mean is you replace the function f with for example a function f2,
f2 : F x F x R x N x N^n x N^n -> [0,1]
f2(x,y,z,a,b,c), x,y player functions, z team factor (simulate training partner), a the map, b the history of player A, c the history of player B

F the space of parameter functions,
f3 in F being f: N x R^3 x N^n -> R
f3(x,y,z) with x enemys race, y players parameters per matchup, z winning history over last n matches



This can obviously be expanded endlessly with successively minor improvement

if you figure out how to model these factors in even slightly (which is by no means near trivial) it may make the predictions more accurate.

With skill parameter not converging I meant it may rise in ones players prime and fall again and then again rise but I don't know if it converges in the normal mathematical sense on infinite examples, means if there is a distinct skill x0 for every player which his parameter will converge against.

I cannot state any of this with proof so I could be wrong on my assumptions of course :-)
"Mathematicians don't understand mathematics, they get used to it." - Prof. Kredler || "That was more one-sided that a mobius strip." - Tasteless
Liquid_Adun
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada205 Posts
December 15 2010 03:49 GMT
#65
a bit of a statistical upset, ogsMC is probally going to win it.
I have returned.
KillerDucky
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States498 Posts
January 10 2011 23:14 GMT
#66
There is an rss feed for the tlpd, although it only returns the 100 most recent games (is there a way to get it to send more?). You could parse this to get new game results.


#!/usr/bin/python

# Before running, do 'wget [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/games/rss']http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/games/rss'[/url]

import feedparser # From [url=http://www.feedparser.org/]http://www.feedparser.org/[/url]
d = feedparser.parse("./rss")

# The link in rss feed is missing the "sc2-korean" part
# rss: d['entries'][0]['link'] = [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/50656_InCa_vs_NaDa]http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/50656_InCa_vs_NaDa[/url]
# actual: [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/games/50656_InCa_vs_NaDa]http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/games/50656_InCa_vs_NaDa[/url]

#print d['entries'][0]

for k in d['entries']:
print k['title'], k['updated']

MarineKingPrime Forever!
Tallrick
Profile Joined January 2011
Sweden130 Posts
January 10 2011 23:52 GMT
#67
Mip, this is deeply intriguing and I'm looking forward to see the final results. Having finished my elementary course in statistics, I was hoping to gain some inspiration as for what I could do when I'm going to begin my exam, this really got me thinking, seeing as I want to do something game related as well. Perhaps it would be interesting, as I think someone already mentioned, do a comparative study with other tournaments?
darmousseh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3437 Posts
January 10 2011 23:58 GMT
#68
Have you considered using trueskill? It's a bayesian sorting algorithm that can be used for games with any number of players.
Developer for http://mtgfiddle.com
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Korean Royale
12:00
Group Stage 1 - Group B
WardiTV1040
TKL 382
Rex123
IntoTheiNu 35
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
TKL 382
RotterdaM 244
Rex 123
SortOf 98
Vindicta 26
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4443
Shuttle 1049
Soma 980
Hyuk 917
firebathero 779
Stork 506
ZerO 472
Rush 202
hero 187
Barracks 133
[ Show more ]
Sharp 108
sSak 98
Killer 90
Aegong 61
Backho 37
Free 32
ToSsGirL 30
Sexy 29
sas.Sziky 24
zelot 19
Movie 15
Shine 14
Terrorterran 11
Dota 2
Gorgc2488
singsing1664
Dendi1305
BananaSlamJamma141
XcaliburYe135
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1761
markeloff103
Other Games
B2W.Neo1249
hiko537
DeMusliM393
crisheroes327
Lowko265
Hui .242
Pyrionflax236
Sick220
ArmadaUGS113
Fuzer 105
oskar94
Liquid`VortiX47
ZerO(Twitch)12
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2010
• WagamamaTV346
League of Legends
• Nemesis1978
• TFBlade615
Upcoming Events
OSC
1h 29m
Replay Cast
8h 29m
Replay Cast
18h 29m
Kung Fu Cup
21h 29m
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
1d 8h
The PondCast
1d 19h
RSL Revival
1d 19h
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
1d 21h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 21h
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
2 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
BSL 21
4 days
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
BSL 21
5 days
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.