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[GSL] Season 2 Finals - Page 8
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Jiiks
Finland487 Posts
NesTea < Scrap Station > NesTea< Steppes of War > 50€ bet with a friend | ||
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On November 13 2010 00:33 dcemuser wrote: Here's State of the Game's analysis of the Finals. If you want to hear it, it starts at around 1:36:00 in the cast. JP: "So tell me what you know about FoxeR, Tyler." Tyler: "Marines." *IdrA, Day[9], and iNcontroL laughing* JP: "Okay, so you covered it. Tell me a little bit about NesTea." Tyler: "This will take me three words. Better than Kyrix." *IdrA laughing* JP: "Marines versus Better than Kyrix... do you think FoxeR is going to take it, Tyler?" Tyler: "No, no. We're going to have another Zerg champion." JP: "Because he's going to make an infestor?" IdrA: "This doesn't even count... like god damn." iNcontroL: "Look at Greg... Greg's squirming." (Skipping ahead a little) JP: "So, IdrA, tell me how you feel about the finals." IdrA: "I don't know how it happened... makes me sad." iNcontroL (trying to control his laughter): "He hasn't lost a game." *entire cast starts laughing hysterically* iNcontroL: "He hasn't lost a fucking game. I don't know how it happened... he raped everybody." (Skipping ahead a little) IdrA: "Take a 10% coin and you flip it enough and eventually you'll put 8 in a row together." * Day[9] laughing like crazy* Tyler: "Only Zergs have 100% coins at the moment... awesome zergs like" *bursts out laughing* "NesTea." JP: "Man, people are just going to think we're shitting all over FoxeR and NesTea." LOL Tyler is so cool. Hearing "Maaareeeenzs" was so funny. | ||
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ShadezOwnage
184 Posts
IdrA is really trying to live up to his korean reputation. FINALLY, a personality in the freaking sc2 scene. Still, he sounds like a crybaby but its still good for the esport. | ||
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OsC
Canada542 Posts
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LittLeD
Sweden7973 Posts
Poll: Finals results? Foxer 4 - 2 NesTea (7) Foxer 4 - 3 NesTea (5) Foxer 2 - 4 NesTea (3) Foxer 4 - 0 NesTea (2) Foxer 3 - 4 NesTea (2) Foxer 1 - 4 NesTea (1) Foxer 0 - 4 NesTea (1) Foxer 4 - 1 NesTea (0) 21 total votes Your vote: Finals results? (Vote): Foxer 4 - 0 NesTea Add this poll to the OP. Would be interested to see how the TL community think the outcome will be. My prediction: Foxer 2 - 4 NesTea | ||
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zul
Germany5427 Posts
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On November 13 2010 08:21 zul wrote: NesTea better win this and i have a good Chance on the Liquibet-title :D #zerglove #zerglarve Sorry to dash your hopes, but I think the entire top 4 is voting Zergbong. | ||
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shaunnn
Ireland1230 Posts
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TeWy
France714 Posts
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Gatsbi
United States1134 Posts
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cold-
Canada209 Posts
 korean +9 useast -5 tot = +14 game match = 18 KST = 4 am USEAST | ||
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junemermaid
United States981 Posts
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
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Ocedic
United States1808 Posts
On November 12 2010 21:45 iG.ClouD wrote: He really is that bad, you should watch the games and see how bad he is. He only reached that point because people still don't know how to counter mass banelings and all in strategies that well yet. BoxeR is surely a very good player but I just think he won these games against FruitDealer because everyone knew how he played and FruitDealer had no clue about what BoxeR was doing. His micro is flawless but his strategies seem somehow not that good. Go get to top 8 GSL before talking. | ||
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debasers
737 Posts
This is the stupidiest argument one can say. I'm not saying that I agree with the guy, but saying he's wrong because he isn't a good player doesn't make any sense. | ||
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xAPOCALYPSEx
1418 Posts
I honestly am thinking that itll either be 4-0 or 4-1 in favor of Zergbong, maybe 4-2. But hey, I know that I could be wrong. | ||
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stratanic
France37 Posts
NesTea < Shakuras Plateau > BoxeR -> NesTea because large map NesTea < Lost Temple > BoxeR -> BoxeR because best map for terran NesTea < Scrap Station > BoxeR -> NesTea because large map NesTea < Jungle Basin > BoxeR-> NesTea because large map NesTea < Steppes of War > BoxeR-> BoxeR because 2 base vs2 base NesTea < Xel'Naga Caverns > Boxer -> ? hard NesTea < Metalopolis > BoxeR-> NesTea because large map | ||
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
SC2 tournament organizers should follow their predecessors' example and switch to a format involving only Bo5 series. Bo7 series are very good at awarding the win to the better player, but they are not so good at delivering an entertaining experience. The Last Game of a Finals is Always the Best One This principle was laid out by Arrian in his excellent article, A Finale in Five. When he said that the final game of the series was always the best, he was referring to the game 5 in a Bo5 series, or in the GSL's case, a game 7 in a Bo7 series. Those are games when everything is on the line. Whoever wins that one game wins the whole series. the last game really is always the best It's easy to show that this principle is true, since we only have a small number of series to look at. There are six Bo7 series in the history of big-event competitive SC2 that have made it to the 7th and final game: ThorZaIN vs NaNiwa in TSL 3, DRG vs MMA in the 2011 Blizzard Cup, MKP vs NesTea in the second GSL Open, MVP vs Squirtle in the 2012 GSL Season 2, PuMa vs MC in NASL Season 1, and HerO vs PuMa at the last Dreamhack Winter. Six series in the entire history of SC2. Six out of forty-five (13%), actually. I counted. In three of those six series, the seventh game was definitely considered to be the best. You just have to look at the recommended game polls for Naniwa vs Thorzain, DRG vs MMA, and HerO vs Puma to see the truth of that. naniwa vs thorzain game 7 But the two series that I want to focus on are MKP vs Nestea and Mvp vs Squirtle. Both those series ended with games that, if viewed in a vacuum, would have been considered terrible. Somehow, though, they were highly rated by spectators as amazing games. That's the power of a game 7. In game 7 of MKP vs Nestea, MKP went for an all-in 2 rax play, a build identical to the one he had performed in game 1. In fact, games 1 and 7 were almost identical in the way they played out -- so why did Lovedrop, in writing his finals recap article, rate game 1 much lower than he did game 7? And why did I, while watching the series live, feel many times more excited watching game 7 than game 1? It was the all-or-nothing stakes which hung over the game that bumped it up a few notches in intensity. The fact that it was the final game in the series made it the best. In game 7 of Mvp vs Squirtle, Mvp went for an early rax all-in. Both players made mistakes, and the game ended quickly. It wasn't a good game at all! Yet in the recommended games poll, the game received a five-star rating from 70% of TLers. The fact that it was the final game in the series increased its perceived quality. This isn't a new phenomenon. Game 5s in Brood War had a similar aura about them. One that stands out in my mind in particular was the final game of the exhibition series between Bisu and Jaedong after GOM season 2. Game 5 involved Jaedong running zerglings up a ramp on the map Andromeda and finishing the game rather quickly after that. The rest of the series featured some unusually high quality PvZ, but for the life of me, I can only remember details of the game that lasted eight minutes! In Brood War, the frequency of finals that went to game 5 was 30% (15/50 -- yes, I counted again), substantially higher than the 13% for Bo7s in SC2. It makes sense that that's the case. Say you have two players, one who completely outclasses the other. Let's say the chance of Player A beating Player B is about 90%. In a Bo3, Player B actually has an 18% chance of taking the series to a game 3 (and an additional 1% chance of winning before then). But the chance of taking a Bo5 to game 5 is much lower -- about 5% -- and the chance of taking a Bo7 to game 7 is lower still (less than 2%). It's skill difference that makes a series more likely to go to the final game in a Bo5 than a Bo7. To sum up: the final game of the series is (almost) always the best, and a Bo5 format leads to more final games than a Bo7 format. Anticlimax Often, after a Bo7 reaches the point of 3-0 or 3-1, things can get rather boring, despite the fact that a friggin' finals is being played. The result of the series feels like a foregone conclusion. The spectators hit alt-tab, and other important internet things are done while the SC2 match finishes in the background. If the match feels like a foregone conclusion, that's because it pretty much is. There have been 31 Bo7 series that reached the point of 3-1 or 3-0. Of those, in only one match did the disadvantaged player eventually win the series. That's right. You could have closed out the stream and gone to bed after a 3-1 or 3-0 result and only regretted it 3.2% of the time. This feeling of anti-climax is eliminated by a Bo5 finals format. Even players in an 0-2 hole don't seem incapable of pulling the match out. Maps Maps are some of the most important parts of a pro scene. Just ask progamers who were competing when Scrap Station and Steppes of War were still floating around. A smaller series allows players to eliminate unfair maps from the map pool via veto. It allows progamers to practice for fewer maps when preparing for the finals, condensing their practice time into prepping five map-specific strategies instead of seven. Watch Jjakji vs Leenock game 1 for an example of how a prepared strategy (the hidden command center behind the mineral patches) can change a game and improve the quality of a series. The NFL vs the NBA The NFL and the NBA are two institutions that take an entirely different approach to the playoffs. The NBA desperately wants the best team to win the finals, period -- from the start of the playoffs, teams play Bo7 series to ensure that the better team advances. The NFL, however, plays only one game per round. Winner takes all. This leads to more unpredictable playoffs. It's rare that the "best team" going into the playoffs wins the Super Bowl. Yet that's not a bad thing. It creates an incredibly exciting postseason every year. SC2 organizations need not be hung up on the idea that the best player must win the tournament. There's a lot of luck associated with tournaments, anyway... the best players regularly get knocked out early on due to cheese or other flukes (just ask Bisu). That's part of what makes SC2 so exciting. Sometimes the best player doesn't win. | ||
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CrAzEdBaDgEr
Canada166 Posts
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
On November 13 2010 00:33 dcemuser wrote: Here's State of the Game's analysis of the Finals. If you want to hear it, it starts at around 1:36:00 in the cast. JP: "So tell me what you know about FoxeR, Tyler." Tyler: "Marines." *IdrA, Day[9], and iNcontroL laughing* JP: "Okay, so you covered it. Tell me a little bit about NesTea." Tyler: "This will take me three words. Better than Kyrix." *IdrA laughing* JP: "Marines versus Better than Kyrix... do you think FoxeR is going to take it, Tyler?" Tyler: "No, no. We're going to have another Zerg champion." JP: "Because he's going to make an infestor?" IdrA: "This doesn't even count... like god damn." iNcontroL: "Look at Greg... Greg's squirming." (Skipping ahead a little) JP: "So, IdrA, tell me how you feel about the finals." IdrA: "I don't know how it happened... makes me sad." iNcontroL (trying to control his laughter): "He hasn't lost a game." *entire cast starts laughing hysterically* iNcontroL: "He hasn't lost a fucking game. I don't know how it happened... he raped everybody." (Skipping ahead a little) IdrA: "Take a 10% coin and you flip it enough and eventually you'll put 8 in a row together." * Day[9] laughing like crazy* Tyler: "Only Zergs have 100% coins at the moment... awesome zergs like" *bursts out laughing* "NesTea." JP: "Man, people are just going to think we're shitting all over FoxeR and NesTea." Does Idra really think that he is better than nestea?! I don't get their humor I think... | ||
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