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On November 04 2010 21:10 Niji87 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 20:22 Thurokiir wrote:I know, though the english dictionary has Faux in it. Where's your god now? http://mw1.meriam-webster.com/dictionary/fauxThis is a well respected English dictionary, Meriam-Webster. Click the "pronunciation" button to read how the word is pronounced in English. The button is shaped as a stereo speaker with sound waves emanating from it. It should be next to the word. ----- Anyway, this match was a very big disappointment for me. BoxeR played intelligently. He went with a build and tried to make it work. It worked. He had no reason to change up his strategy, especially since HopeTorture never managed to shake his calm. He understood that his timing attacks were fully capable of success if repeated, so he repeated them. It was HopeTorture's call to adapt. This is where I am saddened. I have watched HopeTorture play in BW, when he went by IntoTheRainbow, and never remember him being so stubborn. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that he was sick, but this stubborn play is becoming somewhat of a trend with him. I don't know if I can honestly believe his sub-par performance today was from sickness. Even a small change like proxying his Starport produced much better results for HopeTorture, but he reverted back to his standard Banshee play after his single win. I must say that I am slightly concerned with BoxeR as well, though. Not highly, but slightly. If his build fails in the finals and he continues to do it over and over I will be very disappointed. As it stands, he's showcased that he is capable of performing the transition out of marines and two bases on good timing, but we were denied any information as to whether he could maintain his flow after the transition. I honestly have no idea what'll happen tomorrow between SlayerS_`BoxeR` and NesTea. Either way, Season 2 of the GSL has been much better than Season 1. It's still got a way to go before being comparable to the OSL/MSL/PL, but it's definitely improving.
Based on this - let me throw out a conspiracy theory. ITR did these games to show Slayers_'BoxeR' weaknesses in Foxer's play!
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On November 04 2010 20:55 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 20:52 MrCon wrote:On November 04 2010 20:48 taintmachine wrote:
i think the venom towards foxer is unfortunate because it tells me that people have to be absolutely retarded to not appreciate his builds and micro. for instance, foxer vs. kyrix is one of the best series, if not the best, we've had throughout both GSLs from a spectator PoV, and it was because of this darkhorse "abusing" tier 1 aggression like a maniac. This. It's sad how people don't understand starcraft...I'm sad for people who can't appreciate the games foxer gives to us  I do think people appreciate them, i know i do. But that doesnt mean that i wouldnt like to see something besides mass marine. A 45 min game with Foxer would be much better than a game that ends in 7mins with only marines.
I think Foxer also likes to play a 45 min game. However, he is sad to find that his opponents( those 'heroes' who have so many fans ) simply cannot stop his marine rush in the early/mid game. Actually he is so desperate that he even wants to beg his opponents to hold his marine rush so than he can play a 45 min to show his true power.
Poor Foxer: just couldn't find a good enough opponent to play with. Now he gets blamed endlessly by thousands of disappointed noobs.
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Well that was interesting. I agree with people saying that if Foxer can't switch up his play style when people become accustomed to it then he might be in trouble, but his performance is just wild. It was very nearly 4-0. I didn't Liquibet this one because I didn't want to take a side, but I think I ended up cheering for Foxer really quickly.
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On November 04 2010 21:11 Arkedo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 21:06 Fa1nT wrote:On November 04 2010 21:03 nihoh wrote:On November 04 2010 20:50 Kishkumen wrote:On November 04 2010 20:45 JinDesu wrote:I think it's more that you start as at 1 (for a whole year) than from 0 to that 1. On November 04 2010 20:43 Kishkumen wrote:On November 04 2010 20:36 Moragon wrote:we've already seen what he does about the counter to marines. he counters it with better controlled marines This. To everyone who says to hard counter his marines the zergs have used baneling infestor on him, I cant think of a much harder counter, but he still wins making more marines and splitting them everywhere. As revolutionary as his play has been in this tournament people are going to copy it and something will have to be done, you cant have a strategy game boil down to just make a lot of your tier 1 unit. According to IdrA, his strategy is countered pretty heavily by infestors. IdrA seemed pretty confident that a good Zerg with infestor/baneling could take Foxer's strategy down pretty easily. you cant have a strategy game boil down to just make a lot of your tier 1 unit. Day9 would beg to differ, since he's done several dailies on how good tier 1 macro builds are. People get too obsessed with this idea of tiers. Personally, marines are way more fun to watch than thors. And emerging strategies<>imba. I dunno, Foxer said he's pretty confident against Infestor play, most likely because zerg would just get overwhelmed in trying to get to infestors. I'm not a top level Zerg so I'm just repeating what I heard. IdrA sounded very confident infestors would counter it. I believe he said Kyrix was "retarded" for not going infestors. Marine spread > infestor You can't move around a large marine force without balling up, and infestors have enough range to fungal before you can spread out. It's instant, unlike banelings. Well this isnt quite true, the AI will ball them up thats a fact, but he could use some thing similar to magic box mutas on open ground to make them not group up as fast. Or he could just have enough control to nullify it completely.
Spread and patrol works pretty well AFAIK
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On November 04 2010 21:11 Fa1nT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 21:09 nam nam wrote:On November 04 2010 21:06 Fa1nT wrote:On November 04 2010 21:03 nihoh wrote:On November 04 2010 20:50 Kishkumen wrote:On November 04 2010 20:45 JinDesu wrote:I think it's more that you start as at 1 (for a whole year) than from 0 to that 1. On November 04 2010 20:43 Kishkumen wrote:On November 04 2010 20:36 Moragon wrote:we've already seen what he does about the counter to marines. he counters it with better controlled marines This. To everyone who says to hard counter his marines the zergs have used baneling infestor on him, I cant think of a much harder counter, but he still wins making more marines and splitting them everywhere. As revolutionary as his play has been in this tournament people are going to copy it and something will have to be done, you cant have a strategy game boil down to just make a lot of your tier 1 unit. According to IdrA, his strategy is countered pretty heavily by infestors. IdrA seemed pretty confident that a good Zerg with infestor/baneling could take Foxer's strategy down pretty easily. you cant have a strategy game boil down to just make a lot of your tier 1 unit. Day9 would beg to differ, since he's done several dailies on how good tier 1 macro builds are. People get too obsessed with this idea of tiers. Personally, marines are way more fun to watch than thors. And emerging strategies<>imba. I dunno, Foxer said he's pretty confident against Infestor play, most likely because zerg would just get overwhelmed in trying to get to infestors. I'm not a top level Zerg so I'm just repeating what I heard. IdrA sounded very confident infestors would counter it. I believe he said Kyrix was "retarded" for not going infestors. Marine spread > infestor You can't move around a large marine force without balling up, and infestors have enough range to fungal before you can spread out. It's instant, unlike banelings. The problem is getting out enough infestors early enough to save up energy for fungal. A zerg player might be able to get off a few fungals against Foxers marine force, but he don't take out a large chunk of his attacking army, the infestors will fall pretty fast. Which can be stopped. Burrowed banelings all over, for example, would force boxer to wait for scans.
so you're going to Lair, Infestor Pit, and Burrow against terran as aggressive as BoxeR?
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On November 04 2010 21:10 Niji87 wrote:
Not highly, but slightly. If his build fails in the finals and he continues to do it over and over I will be very disappointed
Did you watch his series against Kyrix? After he went 2-1 down he did a fast Banshee build and got a free win to get to 2-2 and set up that incredible final game.
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On November 04 2010 21:11 Fa1nT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 21:09 nam nam wrote:On November 04 2010 21:06 Fa1nT wrote:On November 04 2010 21:03 nihoh wrote:On November 04 2010 20:50 Kishkumen wrote:On November 04 2010 20:45 JinDesu wrote:I think it's more that you start as at 1 (for a whole year) than from 0 to that 1. On November 04 2010 20:43 Kishkumen wrote:On November 04 2010 20:36 Moragon wrote:we've already seen what he does about the counter to marines. he counters it with better controlled marines This. To everyone who says to hard counter his marines the zergs have used baneling infestor on him, I cant think of a much harder counter, but he still wins making more marines and splitting them everywhere. As revolutionary as his play has been in this tournament people are going to copy it and something will have to be done, you cant have a strategy game boil down to just make a lot of your tier 1 unit. According to IdrA, his strategy is countered pretty heavily by infestors. IdrA seemed pretty confident that a good Zerg with infestor/baneling could take Foxer's strategy down pretty easily. you cant have a strategy game boil down to just make a lot of your tier 1 unit. Day9 would beg to differ, since he's done several dailies on how good tier 1 macro builds are. People get too obsessed with this idea of tiers. Personally, marines are way more fun to watch than thors. And emerging strategies<>imba. I dunno, Foxer said he's pretty confident against Infestor play, most likely because zerg would just get overwhelmed in trying to get to infestors. I'm not a top level Zerg so I'm just repeating what I heard. IdrA sounded very confident infestors would counter it. I believe he said Kyrix was "retarded" for not going infestors. Marine spread > infestor You can't move around a large marine force without balling up, and infestors have enough range to fungal before you can spread out. It's instant, unlike banelings. The problem is getting out enough infestors early enough to save up energy for fungal. A zerg player might be able to get off a few fungals against Foxers marine force, but he don't take out a large chunk of his attacking army, the infestors will fall pretty fast. Which can be stopped. Burrowed banelings all over, for example, would force boxer to wait for scans.
yeah so he has to mass infestor with energy upgrade while stopping pushes, researching burrow and making banelings. and not dying in the process.
Not saying it's impossible, but I guess it's not as easy as idra is implying.
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On November 04 2010 20:43 Fa1nT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 20:42 timmeh wrote:On November 04 2010 20:40 locJ wrote:On November 04 2010 20:36 makgong wrote:On November 04 2010 20:31 Psyclon wrote:
How old is Fake Boxer? 18 in korea do people age differently in korea ? They don't "add" one. You are just 1 year old instead of 0 when you're born... So they count contraception is the initiation of life, so you are 9months (round to 1 year) when "excreted"?
No, they just refer to your age as "which year of your life you're living". A newborn is going through his first year. I'm 30 but living my 31st year (oh god mortality sucks).
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On November 04 2010 21:13 eggs wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 21:11 Fa1nT wrote:On November 04 2010 21:09 nam nam wrote:On November 04 2010 21:06 Fa1nT wrote:On November 04 2010 21:03 nihoh wrote:On November 04 2010 20:50 Kishkumen wrote:On November 04 2010 20:45 JinDesu wrote:I think it's more that you start as at 1 (for a whole year) than from 0 to that 1. On November 04 2010 20:43 Kishkumen wrote:On November 04 2010 20:36 Moragon wrote:we've already seen what he does about the counter to marines. he counters it with better controlled marines This. To everyone who says to hard counter his marines the zergs have used baneling infestor on him, I cant think of a much harder counter, but he still wins making more marines and splitting them everywhere. As revolutionary as his play has been in this tournament people are going to copy it and something will have to be done, you cant have a strategy game boil down to just make a lot of your tier 1 unit. According to IdrA, his strategy is countered pretty heavily by infestors. IdrA seemed pretty confident that a good Zerg with infestor/baneling could take Foxer's strategy down pretty easily. you cant have a strategy game boil down to just make a lot of your tier 1 unit. Day9 would beg to differ, since he's done several dailies on how good tier 1 macro builds are. People get too obsessed with this idea of tiers. Personally, marines are way more fun to watch than thors. And emerging strategies<>imba. I dunno, Foxer said he's pretty confident against Infestor play, most likely because zerg would just get overwhelmed in trying to get to infestors. I'm not a top level Zerg so I'm just repeating what I heard. IdrA sounded very confident infestors would counter it. I believe he said Kyrix was "retarded" for not going infestors. Marine spread > infestor You can't move around a large marine force without balling up, and infestors have enough range to fungal before you can spread out. It's instant, unlike banelings. The problem is getting out enough infestors early enough to save up energy for fungal. A zerg player might be able to get off a few fungals against Foxers marine force, but he don't take out a large chunk of his attacking army, the infestors will fall pretty fast. Which can be stopped. Burrowed banelings all over, for example, would force boxer to wait for scans. so you're going to Lair, Infestor Pit, and Burrow against terran as aggressive as BoxeR?
Kyrix did manage to get a dozen mutas, I think he would have been able to go for infestors and burrow.
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ITR seemed like he was the rookie and foxer seemed extremely in control!
I think ITR should have changed something!
I can't understand why some guys hate foxer and his playstyle!
I find his marine control very entertaining. It almost seems like he is a zerg controling infested terrans, since he's so agressive and mass produces very quickly!
Foxer style is efective and if people loose to that is because they played worse then him.. so he deserves this and did what he had to do(WIN)!
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On November 04 2010 21:13 eggs wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 21:11 Fa1nT wrote:On November 04 2010 21:09 nam nam wrote:On November 04 2010 21:06 Fa1nT wrote:On November 04 2010 21:03 nihoh wrote:On November 04 2010 20:50 Kishkumen wrote:On November 04 2010 20:45 JinDesu wrote:I think it's more that you start as at 1 (for a whole year) than from 0 to that 1. On November 04 2010 20:43 Kishkumen wrote:On November 04 2010 20:36 Moragon wrote:we've already seen what he does about the counter to marines. he counters it with better controlled marines This. To everyone who says to hard counter his marines the zergs have used baneling infestor on him, I cant think of a much harder counter, but he still wins making more marines and splitting them everywhere. As revolutionary as his play has been in this tournament people are going to copy it and something will have to be done, you cant have a strategy game boil down to just make a lot of your tier 1 unit. According to IdrA, his strategy is countered pretty heavily by infestors. IdrA seemed pretty confident that a good Zerg with infestor/baneling could take Foxer's strategy down pretty easily. you cant have a strategy game boil down to just make a lot of your tier 1 unit. Day9 would beg to differ, since he's done several dailies on how good tier 1 macro builds are. People get too obsessed with this idea of tiers. Personally, marines are way more fun to watch than thors. And emerging strategies<>imba. I dunno, Foxer said he's pretty confident against Infestor play, most likely because zerg would just get overwhelmed in trying to get to infestors. I'm not a top level Zerg so I'm just repeating what I heard. IdrA sounded very confident infestors would counter it. I believe he said Kyrix was "retarded" for not going infestors. Marine spread > infestor You can't move around a large marine force without balling up, and infestors have enough range to fungal before you can spread out. It's instant, unlike banelings. The problem is getting out enough infestors early enough to save up energy for fungal. A zerg player might be able to get off a few fungals against Foxers marine force, but he don't take out a large chunk of his attacking army, the infestors will fall pretty fast. Which can be stopped. Burrowed banelings all over, for example, would force boxer to wait for scans. so you're going to Lair, Infestor Pit, and Burrow against terran as aggressive as BoxeR?
If that is what is required to win, then yes. Zerg has always been about defending until you can get what you need to win. If FoxeR is super aggressive, you play super defensive, don't make 50 drones in the first few mins :/
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I don't know why people would blame Foxer for not showing mid/late gameplay if ITR can't force him to? It's like when SlayerSBoxeR beat Yellow 3 times straight w/ bunker rushes because Yellow couldn't defend them. SlayerSBoxeR said he was disappointed too because he didn't get to show his transition, which he did in future games.
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On November 04 2010 21:15 WeeKeong wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 21:13 eggs wrote:On November 04 2010 21:11 Fa1nT wrote:On November 04 2010 21:09 nam nam wrote:On November 04 2010 21:06 Fa1nT wrote:On November 04 2010 21:03 nihoh wrote:On November 04 2010 20:50 Kishkumen wrote:On November 04 2010 20:45 JinDesu wrote:I think it's more that you start as at 1 (for a whole year) than from 0 to that 1. On November 04 2010 20:43 Kishkumen wrote:On November 04 2010 20:36 Moragon wrote:
[quote]
This. To everyone who says to hard counter his marines the zergs have used baneling infestor on him, I cant think of a much harder counter, but he still wins making more marines and splitting them everywhere. As revolutionary as his play has been in this tournament people are going to copy it and something will have to be done, you cant have a strategy game boil down to just make a lot of your tier 1 unit. According to IdrA, his strategy is countered pretty heavily by infestors. IdrA seemed pretty confident that a good Zerg with infestor/baneling could take Foxer's strategy down pretty easily. you cant have a strategy game boil down to just make a lot of your tier 1 unit. Day9 would beg to differ, since he's done several dailies on how good tier 1 macro builds are. People get too obsessed with this idea of tiers. Personally, marines are way more fun to watch than thors. And emerging strategies<>imba. I dunno, Foxer said he's pretty confident against Infestor play, most likely because zerg would just get overwhelmed in trying to get to infestors. I'm not a top level Zerg so I'm just repeating what I heard. IdrA sounded very confident infestors would counter it. I believe he said Kyrix was "retarded" for not going infestors. Marine spread > infestor You can't move around a large marine force without balling up, and infestors have enough range to fungal before you can spread out. It's instant, unlike banelings. The problem is getting out enough infestors early enough to save up energy for fungal. A zerg player might be able to get off a few fungals against Foxers marine force, but he don't take out a large chunk of his attacking army, the infestors will fall pretty fast. Which can be stopped. Burrowed banelings all over, for example, would force boxer to wait for scans. so you're going to Lair, Infestor Pit, and Burrow against terran as aggressive as BoxeR? Kyrix did manage to get a dozen mutas, I think he would have been able to go for infestors and burrow. That's a good point actualy. Anyway, I really hope we'll see all that in practise during finals (not that I want RealBoxer losing tomorrow, but I think he has lvery little chance to win)
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ITR is just inconsistent. His on-form play is incredible. His off form play is baffling and embarrassing. I'm glad Foxers in the finals, I didn't want another one where ITR just gets rolled.
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On November 04 2010 21:15 WeeKeong wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 21:13 eggs wrote:On November 04 2010 21:11 Fa1nT wrote:On November 04 2010 21:09 nam nam wrote:On November 04 2010 21:06 Fa1nT wrote:On November 04 2010 21:03 nihoh wrote:On November 04 2010 20:50 Kishkumen wrote:On November 04 2010 20:45 JinDesu wrote:I think it's more that you start as at 1 (for a whole year) than from 0 to that 1. On November 04 2010 20:43 Kishkumen wrote:On November 04 2010 20:36 Moragon wrote:
[quote]
This. To everyone who says to hard counter his marines the zergs have used baneling infestor on him, I cant think of a much harder counter, but he still wins making more marines and splitting them everywhere. As revolutionary as his play has been in this tournament people are going to copy it and something will have to be done, you cant have a strategy game boil down to just make a lot of your tier 1 unit. According to IdrA, his strategy is countered pretty heavily by infestors. IdrA seemed pretty confident that a good Zerg with infestor/baneling could take Foxer's strategy down pretty easily. you cant have a strategy game boil down to just make a lot of your tier 1 unit. Day9 would beg to differ, since he's done several dailies on how good tier 1 macro builds are. People get too obsessed with this idea of tiers. Personally, marines are way more fun to watch than thors. And emerging strategies<>imba. I dunno, Foxer said he's pretty confident against Infestor play, most likely because zerg would just get overwhelmed in trying to get to infestors. I'm not a top level Zerg so I'm just repeating what I heard. IdrA sounded very confident infestors would counter it. I believe he said Kyrix was "retarded" for not going infestors. Marine spread > infestor You can't move around a large marine force without balling up, and infestors have enough range to fungal before you can spread out. It's instant, unlike banelings. The problem is getting out enough infestors early enough to save up energy for fungal. A zerg player might be able to get off a few fungals against Foxers marine force, but he don't take out a large chunk of his attacking army, the infestors will fall pretty fast. Which can be stopped. Burrowed banelings all over, for example, would force boxer to wait for scans. so you're going to Lair, Infestor Pit, and Burrow against terran as aggressive as BoxeR? Kyrix did manage to get a dozen mutas, I think he would have been able to go for infestors and burrow.
mutas are more effective. they kill SCVs and MULEs, force retreats, pick off medivacs, and force investment in turrets. infestors will assist in killing a group of marines and maybe suspend a medivac for your zergligns and banelings to dance under.
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On November 04 2010 21:18 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 21:15 WeeKeong wrote:On November 04 2010 21:13 eggs wrote:On November 04 2010 21:11 Fa1nT wrote:On November 04 2010 21:09 nam nam wrote:On November 04 2010 21:06 Fa1nT wrote:On November 04 2010 21:03 nihoh wrote:On November 04 2010 20:50 Kishkumen wrote:On November 04 2010 20:45 JinDesu wrote:I think it's more that you start as at 1 (for a whole year) than from 0 to that 1. On November 04 2010 20:43 Kishkumen wrote:
[quote]
According to IdrA, his strategy is countered pretty heavily by infestors. IdrA seemed pretty confident that a good Zerg with infestor/baneling could take Foxer's strategy down pretty easily.
[quote]
Day9 would beg to differ, since he's done several dailies on how good tier 1 macro builds are. People get too obsessed with this idea of tiers. Personally, marines are way more fun to watch than thors. And emerging strategies<>imba. I dunno, Foxer said he's pretty confident against Infestor play, most likely because zerg would just get overwhelmed in trying to get to infestors. I'm not a top level Zerg so I'm just repeating what I heard. IdrA sounded very confident infestors would counter it. I believe he said Kyrix was "retarded" for not going infestors. Marine spread > infestor You can't move around a large marine force without balling up, and infestors have enough range to fungal before you can spread out. It's instant, unlike banelings. The problem is getting out enough infestors early enough to save up energy for fungal. A zerg player might be able to get off a few fungals against Foxers marine force, but he don't take out a large chunk of his attacking army, the infestors will fall pretty fast. Which can be stopped. Burrowed banelings all over, for example, would force boxer to wait for scans. so you're going to Lair, Infestor Pit, and Burrow against terran as aggressive as BoxeR? Kyrix did manage to get a dozen mutas, I think he would have been able to go for infestors and burrow. That's a good point actualy. Anyway, I really hope we'll see all that in practise during finals (not that I want RealBoxer losing tomorrow, but I think he has lvery little chance to win)
But Kyrix was only able to hold off 'til that point by cutting econ and getting more banelings. Plus Foxer had tanks/medivacs so infestor play would not necessarily change the outcome. The mutas did very well in nullifying the tanks. Infestors would not. Foxer would probably just do his advanced scouting marines and siege push w/ a heavier tank concentration if Kyrix let them go unchecked. Foxer even specifically said in his interview that it was a good choice by Kyrix not to go infestor because he practiced hard specifically to counter them.
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On November 04 2010 21:10 JinDesu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 21:09 1337skillzave wrote:On November 04 2010 21:02 Fa1nT wrote:On November 04 2010 21:00 mierin wrote:
People claiming he only marines clearly didn't watch g5. Yeah, he went marines, siege marines, and flying marines. You forgot the angelic marines that fly around, heal the marines, pick up the siege marines and marines and carry them to safety, and shoot healing lasers instead of bullets. Also keep in mind that in every game he also builds lots of miner marines that give him money to make marines and additional marine warrens. And don't forget about the fat marines in game 4. He had a couple fat marines when he pushed his marine/fat marine/miner marine army into hopetorture's marine+non-sieged tank army. There were also some flying marines that can land and shoot like marines, but when they are flying they shoot really long range rockets. He also has marines that mine gold.
And those double marines from the sky.
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On November 04 2010 21:14 Cade)Flayer wrote:Did you watch his series against Kyrix? After he went 2-1 down he did a fast Banshee build and got a free win to get to 2-2 and set up that incredible final game.
Yes, I did.
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Well ITR doesn't adapt if you come up with a build that trumps his. 'Hmmm banshees didn't work last game... he'll never expect more banshees'
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On November 04 2010 21:24 Magnamus wrote:
Well ITR doesn't adapt if you come up with a build that trumps his. 'Hmmm banshees didn't work last game... he'll never expect more banshees'
ITR had the same build every time. BoxeR had a different build for every map. ITR was out-prepared and outplayed.
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EPT
