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[GSL] Open S1 - Ro32 Day 4 - Page 143

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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syldiivh
Profile Joined September 2010
Denmark190 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-20 13:34:28
September 20 2010 13:33 GMT
#2841
He sent the SCV at 7, got to his base long before depot was up.


Only if he catched his spawn in the first try. 25%- succes rate proxy?

edit: 33% ofc -_-
..
Twiggy123
Profile Joined September 2010
2 Posts
September 20 2010 13:35 GMT
#2842
On September 20 2010 22:33 shawabawa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2010 22:28 Twiggy123 wrote:
On September 20 2010 22:24 shawabawa wrote:
On September 20 2010 22:23 syldiivh wrote:
On September 20 2010 21:45 syldiivh wrote:
How did hyperdub know TLO's position without TLO knowing he sent out the instant SCV? I cant see the vod, but as far as i saw hyperdub pulled the SCV up just to scout then down behind natural for proxy. Does the scv out range the barracks in sight and if so isnt this build betting on that the barracks is far enough away from the ramp?

Im kinda confused by this.


Can anyone answer to this?

He ran the scv into TLO's main before building the rax, saw the mineral patch being mined and left before he could be seen.


he actually did a very tricky thing

he got in range to see just the patch of minerals without being spotted by the enemy scv, clicked on the patch of minerals, saw it was less than max, and knew someone has spawned there
that's pro cheese

You don't need to do that, you can see the minerals glowing while they're mined without being in range of the SCV's sight, if you don't see it glowing then you can click to see if it has been mined


correct me if im wrong, but im sure pro gamers (them) would have been playing on the lowest graphical level, do they have that fancy glow when being mined? i don't know, have to test this out
Arceus
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Vietnam8333 Posts
September 20 2010 13:35 GMT
#2843
if cheese was accepted and loved in BW, why not the same in SC2 ? If it was TLO who cheesed, fanbois woulda been like "wow, TLO must have some steel neurons for risking cheesing at deciding game omg dub got humiliated omg"
Koukalaka
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom80 Posts
September 20 2010 13:35 GMT
#2844
On September 20 2010 22:33 syldiivh wrote:
Show nested quote +
He sent the SCV at 7, got to his base long before depot was up.


Only if he catched his spawn in the first try. 25%- succes rate proxy?

edit: 33% ofc -_-


Would you take a 33% chance to win if it meant going from $400 winnings to $3200 winnings?
hydraden
Profile Joined April 2010
United States719 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-20 13:38:54
September 20 2010 13:36 GMT
#2845
On September 20 2010 22:33 syldiivh wrote:
Show nested quote +
He sent the SCV at 7, got to his base long before depot was up.


Only if he catched his spawn in the first try. 25%- succes rate proxy?

edit: 33% ofc -_-


Definitely not 33%, he has enough time to scout another base before 150 minerals.

I would say even if he scouted last, he still has a chance with this strategy.
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
September 20 2010 13:36 GMT
#2846
On September 20 2010 22:35 Arceus wrote:
if cheese was accepted and loved in BW, why not the same in SC2 ? If it was TLO who cheesed, fanbois woulda been like "wow, TLO must have some steel neurons for risking cheesing at deciding game omg dub got humiliated omg"

How did you get the feeling that cheese was loved in BW?
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
shawabawa
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom417 Posts
September 20 2010 13:37 GMT
#2847
On September 20 2010 22:33 syldiivh wrote:
Show nested quote +
He sent the SCV at 7, got to his base long before depot was up.


Only if he catched his spawn in the first try. 25%- succes rate proxy?

edit: 33% ofc -_-

He can get to first 2 bases before depot, then for the third base he doesn't need to scout because of process of elimination.
syldiivh
Profile Joined September 2010
Denmark190 Posts
September 20 2010 13:37 GMT
#2848
Definitely not 33%, he has enough time to scout another base before 150 minerals.


Yes but then the depot will be up warning of proxy if placed between mineral line and ramp.
..
BeefEU
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands260 Posts
September 20 2010 13:38 GMT
#2849
He lost, get over it.. Cheese is a valid strategy and you people complaining about sportsmanship.

Sportmanship < Money..

XDsCrazy
Profile Joined February 2003
Canada119 Posts
September 20 2010 13:38 GMT
#2850
Can anyone here tell me they think Jeadong is bad ? no one right ?

But he still 4 pooled Flash twice in a row in the last OSL final !
G-_-L
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
September 20 2010 13:38 GMT
#2851
I just don't understand the double standard.
Inca photon rush in his ro32 game 3 was brilliant. Everyone was amazed, it was so well executed.
Here it is just the same, I'm sad TLO lost, but you can't blame a cheeser as cheese only work if your opponent makes a mistake (=don't scout it)
syldiivh
Profile Joined September 2010
Denmark190 Posts
September 20 2010 13:39 GMT
#2852
He can get to first 2 bases before depot, then for the third base he doesn't need to scout because of process of elimination.


are you sure about that? the depot just needs to be building, if placed close enough to ramp?
..
Koukalaka
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom80 Posts
September 20 2010 13:40 GMT
#2853
On September 20 2010 22:39 syldiivh wrote:
Show nested quote +
He can get to first 2 bases before depot, then for the third base he doesn't need to scout because of process of elimination.


are you sure about that? the depot just needs to be building, if placed close enough to ramp?


No-one builds their buildings next to the ramp in TvT due to siege tanks sniping off barracks/supply depots and putting you further behind. Most supply depots will be built behind the mineral line or near the vespene gas geysers.
Chocobo
Profile Joined November 2006
United States1108 Posts
September 20 2010 13:41 GMT
#2854
Anyone who is upset at Hyperdub or believes game 3 was "unfair" has no understanding of the nature of competition and tbh I am surprised they even found their way to this website.

Cheese is part of the game, it's perfectly legal to use, and it's completely counterable. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using it. Comparing this to a low blow in boxing is just plain wrong.

Many sports have high-risk high-reward (and high-penalty for missing) scenarios. A basketball team might shoot a series of 3-pointers in a row... usually a bad idea, but if it's your best chance to win then you have to try it.

A golfer might try to reach the par 5 green on his second shot. This high risk shot could set him up for an eagle putt, or it could put his ball in the water and cost him any chance to win a tournament.

It's OK to be disappointed that TLO is out, it's OK to be disappointed that it was not an "epic" loss but instead involved a single mistake (and some luck).

But do not forget that for the players, this is their LIFE... this is their career. Their future as a pro gamer could depend on their tournament performance. There is money, notoriety, and career opportunities on the line here... and it is the players job to do everything humanly possible that is within the rules of the game in order to get the win.

It is selfish of you if you think the players ought to be doing anything differently because it will provide a more "honorable" match to watch. The goal of the game is to win and that's what Hyperdub did. Don't forget that he solidly outplayed TLO in the first several minutes of 3 straight games.

tldr version: don't hate the player, hate the game. but ideally, don't hate
Carnac
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Germany / USA16648 Posts
September 20 2010 13:41 GMT
#2855
On September 20 2010 22:37 shawabawa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2010 22:33 syldiivh wrote:
He sent the SCV at 7, got to his base long before depot was up.


Only if he catched his spawn in the first try. 25%- succes rate proxy?

edit: 33% ofc -_-

He can get to first 2 bases before depot, then for the third base he doesn't need to scout because of process of elimination.

I think if he hadn't scouted TLO in the first position he would have made the Barracks at the top gold expo before continuing to scout
ModeratorHi! I'm a .signature *virus*! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!
myrmidon2537
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Philippines2188 Posts
September 20 2010 13:42 GMT
#2856
On September 20 2010 22:38 BeefEU wrote:
He lost, get over it.. Cheese is a valid strategy and you people complaining about sportsmanship.

Sportmanship < Money..



Actually, Cheesing doesn't even take away from your sportsmanship. People are just frustrated when losing to an all-in build.

Cheese is a valid strategy, within the rules of the game, and is also counterable (and not broken) Period.

Its not the other player's obligation to play the way you want him to play. As long as its not breaking any rules, its all fair.

IPT.PromilKid: I'm only good at Marvel
aru
Profile Joined April 2010
183 Posts
September 20 2010 13:42 GMT
#2857
On September 20 2010 22:38 XDsCrazy wrote:
Can anyone here tell me they think Jeadong is bad ? no one right ?

But he still 4 pooled Flash twice in a row in the last OSL final !


To be fair, Jaedong has proven to the world that he can macro with the best. So his "cheesing" is strategic genius!

The majority of TL probably didn't even know who Hyperdub is before he was matched against TLO.
s_86
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States191 Posts
September 20 2010 13:43 GMT
#2858
You cannot blame Blizzard for designing the maps to 'make cheese easier'. If the players recognize that cheese is easier on these maps, then they would adapt with more thorough and earlier scouting (like Clide).

And seriously, how can you say cheese is like doing a low blow when the ref isn't looking. Seriously? Cheese is more like only working on your grappling skills, and hoping you can bring the fight to the ground before you get knocked out in the standing game.

If you really feel like cheese should not be in StarCraft 2, then perhaps you should be playing 5min no rush.

And no, it isn't a 25% success rate proxy, well it would be more reasonable to call it 33%, but it ain't that either. Hyperdub would adjust his build depending on how fast he scout's TLO.

Also, the reason TLO scouted 12:00 first, is cause he didn't see an opponent's fast scout, so he figured hyperdub was not at 6:00 (since 6:00 typically scouts 3:00 first). What I believe TLO could have done is... since his scout did not find a base at 12:00, and on the route to 9:00, it did not find hyperdub's scout going counterclockwise, he could have concluded that hyperdub is either... 1. at 9:00 and scouting clockwise (which is rare, but then again TLO did the same), or 2. hyperdub is at 6:00 and proxying. Which means TLO should have put down a bunker instantly. Either way, incredibly hard to suspect, mad respect for TLO.
ZeaL.
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5955 Posts
September 20 2010 13:44 GMT
#2859
On September 20 2010 22:35 Arceus wrote:
if cheese was accepted and loved in BW, why not the same in SC2 ? If it was TLO who cheesed, fanbois woulda been like "wow, TLO must have some steel neurons for risking cheesing at deciding game omg dub got humiliated omg"


Cheese is something that divides people. Just look at Kwanro. Or even the last OSL thread. Generally speaking if its a no name thats cheesing its "cheesy motherfucker" and if its an S-class its "brilliant" play.
Fa1nT
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3423 Posts
September 20 2010 13:44 GMT
#2860
On September 20 2010 22:41 Chocobo wrote:
Many sports have high-risk high-reward (and high-penalty for missing) scenarios. A basketball team might shoot a series of 3-pointers in a row... usually a bad idea, but if it's your best chance to win then you have to try it.

A golfer might try to reach the par 5 green on his second shot. This high risk shot could set him up for an eagle putt, or it could put his ball in the water and cost him any chance to win a tournament.


But cheese was NOT his last chance. It was an extremely risky one that paid off.

Why not use your skill, a very UN-risky strategy that can still pay off equally as well?

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