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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On September 20 2010 22:08 Roggay wrote: Game 1 was awesome, but in general TLO seemed to be behind everytime in the early game. I don't understand why he likes hellions so much, it seemed like a huge waste everytime. No, helions allows him to abuse the tanks AI. | ||
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Garrinski
United States3 Posts
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
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Shatter
United States1401 Posts
On September 20 2010 22:07 kojinshugi wrote: Low blows are against the rules, cheesing isn't. Okay, and that's your opinion, one which most sane human beings don't share. You don't deal low blows when the ref isn't looking just because the rules of the game let you get away with it and win. Sportsmanship isn't just about having a modicum of self control when making public statements. It's about playing fairly, and still winning. In real life of course none of that matters. In real war of course you do everything you need to to win. But in sports, we are allowed to have slightly higher ideals and expectations of fairness. And we're most certainly allowed to think that someone getting a win by executing a cheap, no-talent trick is not deserving of applause. Even if everyone agreed not to cheese. Cheesing would just become the new most aggressive opening allowed and you would complain about that too. It is apart of the game. It isn't going away and if it really bothers you so much, then I'm sorry. | ||
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McFoo
United Kingdom180 Posts
On September 20 2010 22:03 kojinshugi wrote: Which is why professional BW took off so well as a spectator sport in the West. Oh wait. Cheesing a deciding match is not entertaining. It just isn't. It's like watching a game of fucking thumb war. Lol, I doubt BoxeR bunker rushing YellOw had anything to do with BW not "taking off so well as a spectator sport in the West." More likely has something to do with a lack of PC Baangs. | ||
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InFiNitY[pG]
Germany3467 Posts
On September 20 2010 22:03 kojinshugi wrote: Cheesing a deciding match is not entertaining. It just isn't. It's like watching a game of fucking thumb war. I guess you also enjoy "ten minute no rush" games on bnet. If you can safely expect cheese not to come the game would change tremendously and actually for the worse. It would remove an essential part of the game. it would turn into "who can build more stuff in x minutes". So it's absolutey retarded to say something like this. There is a reason why great players seem immune to cheese, also it's very rewarding to see tester beat proxy 2gate with a standard 1gate build or JD defending a 5rax by Flash etc. etc. In all honesty, if you lose to cheese your build simply isn't good and you need to adjust it or scout better. No cheese build is undefendable and mind games are very important at high level play. | ||
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hdkhang
Australia183 Posts
On September 20 2010 22:07 kojinshugi wrote: Okay, and that's your opinion, one which most sane human beings don't share. You don't deal low blows when the ref isn't looking just because the rules of the game let you get away with it and win. Sportsmanship isn't just about having a modicum of self control when making public statements. It's about playing fairly, and still winning. In real life of course none of that matters. In real war of course you do everything you need to to win. But in sports, we are allowed to have slightly higher ideals and expectations of fairness. And we're most certainly allowed to think that someone getting a win by executing a cheap, no-talent trick is not deserving of applause. How is proxy rax dealing a low blow while ref is not looking? It is not the same thing at all. If he installed a map hack whilst the admins weren't looking, that would then be comparable. You really need to calm down a little before continuing to post. To be honest, I'm pretty certain that at least 50% of the people complaining about TLO losing to cheese would not be rallying behind Hyperdub should TLO have cheesed that third match. | ||
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DminusTerran
Canada1337 Posts
On September 20 2010 22:09 kojinshugi wrote: Point to examples of like, five separate people doing so. Or shut the hell up. Lol seriously dude who the hell do you think you are, just trying to stifle people. Your attitude is shit can you please stop posting. | ||
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zemiron
United States481 Posts
On September 20 2010 21:48 trebs wrote: If you were playing for thousands and thousands of dollars (mind you this is their primary, if not only, source of income), wouldn't you do whatever you could to make sure you won? I don't see how this is different than a "trick play" in american football. Sure, we all want to see more games like Game 1 of that series, but hyperdub did his job and won the round. I wouldn't, but that's just me. I'm the kind of person who doesn't do things that I myself don't like. Even if it were for thousands of dollars. But I'll never be there because I'll never be that good. :-) If using a trick play in American football immediately ended the game, then I would be just as irritated and would think it's bad entertainment. I actually liken a trick play to the creative style that players (like TLO) use. It's fun. Cheese to me would be more analogous to using dirty and unsportsmanlike plays in American football. That would make it less fun to watch. If TLO (or anyone for that matter) would have lost to longer match that displayed some skill, both macro and micro, I wouldn't be irritated. I'm just irritated because I hoped to see an interesting third game and got something that was completely uninteresting. Also, I've noticed that Dimaga has been 6-pooling a lot lately in some matches and I find that as boring and less exciting as this proxy rax. Oh well. I'm looking forward to seeing what Tester will do against Hyperdub. | ||
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alecfisher
United States21 Posts
On September 20 2010 22:02 Shatter wrote: What? As long as you play within the rules of the game, any strategy is 100% fine. You play to win, not for respect. Sportsmanship has nothing to do with ingame actions. because life is all about winning, nothing about anything else. Yea.. ill give you a life lesson, winning isnt everything. winning and feeling great that you won is something worth wild. rant* + Show Spoiler + Lets just say when you look back and go and you see all those achievements you have, but they dont really mean anything to you because they are empty achievements that you know u didnt earn it the way you would have wanted to earn it. i really think you should recondsider saying you play to win, because you play to have fun. i promise you that the frist game that tlo came back from isgonna be remember alot longer then the fact that he lost that series. | ||
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Shakes
Australia557 Posts
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JeJeFlak
Romania52 Posts
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McFoo
United Kingdom180 Posts
On September 20 2010 22:08 Roggay wrote: Game 1 was awesome, but in general TLO seemed to be behind everytime in the early game. I don't understand why he likes hellions so much, it seemed like a huge waste everytime. Thors, Tanks, Vikings, Nukes -- gas is the limiting factor. He had a surplus of minerals and factories on standby. Hellions are better than nothing and he used them to do some harrass and to have the tanks splash themselves with damage. | ||
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imJealous
United States1382 Posts
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Grond
599 Posts
On September 20 2010 22:05 keV. wrote: I'm clearly talking about excessive player bashing, that is clearly not a right on this website. Yeh I don't see a lot of player bashing either. Cheese bashing is not player bashing. | ||
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Voros
United States222 Posts
On September 20 2010 21:56 ChickenLips wrote: They both lack in micro, scouting and 'game sense', mostly because they have macro backgrounds and are so young. TLO always scouts close air on Metalopolis. Well maybe he learns for next time as this - imo - retarded scout cost him the game. If you scout no rax you know its either reapers or marines, with marines being more common. You insta start a bunker and put 1 SCV down your ramp to know when to pull SCVs. When you have your SCVs as meatshields blocking the marines from coming up the ramp to kill the marines / bunker constructing SCV, you have won the game. They will not be able to do significant dmg and 2 marines with DPS support by the SCVs can take down 5 marines or at the very least stall them good enough. As Hyperdub said, he knew that TLO was focused on winning and therefore thought that a quick cheese would win him the game. Well played. I'm mostly hating on TLO for botching 2 games so quickly after that amazing g1. TLO doesn't lack in game sense, and Idra most certainly doesn't lack in micro. For all the bashing and bad press he gets for his mouth, Idra is a tremendous macro player who rarely slips on micro; his chief weaknesses are his predictability and slowness in adapting to unexpected behavior. TLO lost game three because of a perfect storm of scouting directions and TLO's failure to check for proxies on a four-player map at ~12 supply. Hyperdub took a massive gamble that paid off as a consequence of good luck and one bad decision by his opponent. A win is a win, but I can't come away from that series feeling that TLO was somehow embarrassed or that Hyperdub is in the wrong. It was a grueling series between two great players, and Hyperdub gave a well-spoken and respectful interview afterward. More power to him, as he has his work cut out for him this round. For his part, TLO played well and showed that in spite of his already wonderful performance, he's still got plenty of room to improve. I look forward to seeing where he's at a year from now when he's had the opportunity to dedicate himself to the same extent as his opponents. | ||
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wanderLust
United States8 Posts
The reason game 3 was so disappointing for me is because when I woke up at 4am to watch this stream, I wanted to see some intense and entertaining games. I didn't wake up a 4am to watch a player put advancement into the Ro16 on a simple coin toss, which just so happened to work out for him due to TLO scouting for fast air. Cheese builds are so random, and rely way more on luck than on head to head skill. I sincerely hope blizzard starts to make maps that are much larger, as to prevent this type of nonsense from ruining the game. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
Cheese is embedded in SC2, just as it is in BW and in every other sport on the planet. Be upset that your favorite player lost, but take a step back and stop raging about it publicly. | ||
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syldiivh
Denmark190 Posts
On September 20 2010 21:45 syldiivh wrote: How did hyperdub know TLO's position without TLO knowing he sent out the instant SCV? I cant see the vod, but as far as i saw hyperdub pulled the SCV up just to scout then down behind natural for proxy. Does the scv out range the barracks in sight and if so isnt this build betting on that the barracks is far enough away from the ramp? Im kinda confused by this. Can anyone answer to this? | ||
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shawabawa
United Kingdom417 Posts
He ran the scv into TLO's main before building the rax, saw the mineral patch being mined and left before he could be seen. | ||
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