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[GSL] Open S1 - Ro32 Day 1 - Page 88

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Sliver
Profile Joined April 2010
United States402 Posts
September 15 2010 12:38 GMT
#1741
Aw man the number of Zergs in this tourny is getting smaller and smaller.

Not whining about imbalance, I just enjoy watching Zerg games more than Terran or Protoss.
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
September 15 2010 12:38 GMT
#1742
On September 15 2010 21:32 tackklee wrote:
But the first game was just frustrating to watch. Zerg should have clearly won, by the amount of advantage he barely managed to muscle over. Sure he pre-emptively attacked, but his larger army shouldn't have been obliterated in 2 seconds.


zerg lost his spire which pretty much destroyed all the timings for more effective muta-harassments; therefore maka could take the gold and get a crazy economy; it doesn't matter if maka made some poor battle-choices because his economy was just "that" much better;
at the point where zerg dominated he was merely "regaining" the previously lost ground;

afterwards he just sacrificed his army, I mean, that's the obvious disadvantage you have if you play with mass-air vs mass-anti-air....you have to pick your battles carefully

don't see why maka shouldn't have deserved winning this one, indeed, game 1 really showed that he is an extraordinary player; in game 2 maka admittedly didn't do anything else that an "average pro-gamer" couldn't do either
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
September 15 2010 12:38 GMT
#1743
On September 15 2010 21:37 Qikz wrote:
Personally, I'm not sure why the zerg player kept trying to expand there. He knew as soon as there were a decent amount of reapers, he was going to die.

Why didn't he try and hold out in his main, rather than trying to chase the reapers away to expand?

The 5rax reaper build gets an expansion at around 30 supply and Terran will be 2 bases vs 1 and we all know how that goes
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Hikari
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
1914 Posts
September 15 2010 12:39 GMT
#1744
@voidrays:
The same can be said to every single air unit. 1 banshee > 1 queen (and can come faster than a vr), can cloak too! If you are not prepared for AA, you lose. If you are not prepared for cloak (even burrowed roaches), you lose.

Void rays are actually a lot weaker than you think.

Void rays are very expensive, and teching straight to them is a big risk due to the large investment. Lotze gambled on the habit that idra rarely does any rush/early attack.

They do not have range advantage as corruptors and vikings - so using them against BCs/Broodlord is always a risk of them getting shot down. Yamoto 1 shot a voidray, denying the supposedly protoss counter to BCs.

I think the problem lies more on zerg's lack of AA besides the queen until t2. Queens do fine but you need several to be effective (power goes up exponentially because of transfuse) - something not a lot of people will blindly do. Hydras and mutas are fine against other air units but a spire takes an eternity to build (and is so soft) while hydras are crippled off creep and dies to any sort of aoe (tanks, colo, storm) (hydras also "need" that range upgrade).
zimms
Profile Joined November 2009
Austria561 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-15 12:42:28
September 15 2010 12:39 GMT
#1745
On September 15 2010 21:24 Raevin wrote:
Show nested quote +
Man, i so wish some mods would go on a banning spree.

It's so disgusting that every thread here becomes a flame/whine thread where every moron states the same things over and over again. I mean come on guys, this is a LR thread, yet one has to search through pages and pages of imba talk to find some posts actually describing the games...

And I'm sure this won't stop unless the mods do some terrible, terrible banning.
People have to realize that this is not the right place for "balance discussion".



How much are you helping by calling everyone morons straight out of the gate? People are goddamned upset, i bet even the mods watching these games are disgusted by that Reaper stuff you just saw, whether they play T or not dosent matter, BS is BS

Stop with the "dont nerf me bro" posts and contribute to the game and community by actually speaking the truth instead of pushing it under the rug for your own self intrest

Something is obviously wrong, and people are upset when they see that and naturally speak out about it.


Yes, I agree that I shouldn't have used the word 'morons'. But I think you didn't quite get what i wanted to say with that post (probably my fault).

I don't like the reapers either, nor the marauders or any other units/abilities that just feel too strong. I didn't want to say that T is fine and that there is no need for a balance patch. What I tried to say is, that we already have quite some threads concerning that issue.

And guess what, I don't even play T in SC2.
MRMultiBryn
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden78 Posts
September 15 2010 12:40 GMT
#1746
Always sad to see zergs lose. Lets hope for Cool and Check to go all the way.
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9175 Posts
September 15 2010 12:40 GMT
#1747
Anyone blaming that third game of idra's on imbalance should get their head checked. His overlord spread was abysmal, one should have been up there to see the hidden expo. 2 geysers extra won the game for the toss.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
Sanguinarius
Profile Joined January 2010
United States3427 Posts
September 15 2010 12:42 GMT
#1748
I really want to be able to see the 3rd idra game. Sounds like it was really good.
Your strength is just an accident arising from the weakness of others -Heart of Darkness
Fa1nT
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3423 Posts
September 15 2010 12:42 GMT
#1749
On September 15 2010 21:39 Hikari wrote:
@voidrays:
The same can be said to every single air unit. 1 banshee > 1 queen (and can come faster than a vr), can cloak too! If you are not prepared for AA, you lose. If you are not prepared for cloak (even burrowed roaches), you lose.

Void rays are actually a lot weaker than you think.

Void rays are very expensive, and teching straight to them is a big risk due to the large investment. Lotze gambled on the habit that idra rarely does any rush/early attack.

They do not have range advantage as corruptors and vikings - so using them against BCs/Broodlord is always a risk of them getting shot down. Yamoto 1 shot a voidray, denying the supposedly protoss counter to BCs.

I think the problem lies more on zerg's lack of AA besides the queen until t2. Queens do fine but you need several to be effective (power goes up exponentially because of transfuse) - something not a lot of people will blindly do. Hydras and mutas are fine against other air units but a spire takes an eternity to build (and is so soft) while hydras are crippled off creep and dies to any sort of aoe (tanks, colo, storm) (hydras also "need" that range upgrade).


A lot of people want hydra and roach to switch tiers.
CruelZeratul
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany4588 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-15 12:43:44
September 15 2010 12:43 GMT
#1750
On September 15 2010 21:39 Hikari wrote:
@voidrays:
The same can be said to every single air unit. 1 banshee > 1 queen (and can come faster than a vr), can cloak too! If you are not prepared for AA, you lose. If you are not prepared for cloak (even burrowed roaches), you lose.

Void rays are actually a lot weaker than you think.

Void rays are very expensive, and teching straight to them is a big risk due to the large investment. Lotze gambled on the habit that idra rarely does any rush/early attack.

They do not have range advantage as corruptors and vikings - so using them against BCs/Broodlord is always a risk of them getting shot down. Yamoto 1 shot a voidray, denying the supposedly protoss counter to BCs.

I think the problem lies more on zerg's lack of AA besides the queen until t2. Queens do fine but you need several to be effective (power goes up exponentially because of transfuse) - something not a lot of people will blindly do. Hydras and mutas are fine against other air units but a spire takes an eternity to build (and is so soft) while hydras are crippled off creep and dies to any sort of aoe (tanks, colo, storm) (hydras also "need" that range upgrade).


Banshees don't instantly kill buildings and even if they are in your base and the Queen is dead there is a chance to get a new one in time, and if your on two bases there should at least be one still alive.
Somi
Profile Joined August 2010
Pakistan123 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-15 12:45:29
September 15 2010 12:43 GMT
#1751
USA: NO Zerg in Top 10.
EU: NO Zerg in Top 10
KR: 2 Zergs in Top 10. [Note: These two zergs have insanely more games relative to people around there ranks]

USA: 1 Zerg in Top 20
EU: 2 Zergs in Top 20
KR:5 Zergs in Top 20.

Creeps are being killed and the swarm grows weaker :<
For the Swarm!
SKtheAnathema
Profile Joined September 2010
United States885 Posts
September 15 2010 12:45 GMT
#1752
there really should be no imba whining about idra's g2... he got JUKED hardbody. partially due to spying on lotze's bnet build orders. it's not like he didn't have an overlord in the protoss base, either. lotze SHOWED robo,then built a stargate. that was just amazing.

also have to give credit to lotze's forcefield and colossus micro in g3. all that intensity and pressure allowed him to overload idra's brain and get in that sneaky expansion. awesome set! wp'd by both.
Ghad
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway2551 Posts
September 15 2010 12:46 GMT
#1753
On September 15 2010 21:35 Ajsbear wrote:
With that being said, looking at this thread and others I wonder: What will it take for "us" to say "Hey that Terran player really deserved to win". Still yet to see the community NOT whine like crazy whenever a Zerg loses to Terran, no matter how the match played out. If the Zerg wins, he wins because he is lucky and/or God, if Terran wins it is because he plays Terran.


As a zerg player, I will say that much of zerg play in the tournament has not been that impressive, and most of the defeats have probably been to better players.

Doesn't mean that the game and maps are not full of issues.
forgottendreams: One underage girl, two drunk guys, one gogo dancer and starcraft 2. Apparently just another day in Europe.
pyro19
Profile Joined August 2010
6575 Posts
September 15 2010 12:47 GMT
#1754
Even as a Terra Player have to agree to this one.

As haypro said , The Zerg units are all counter units.One unit is Good against A specific one in the enemy race , but equally weaker against any other.You have to consistently keep changing your build,

Plus Hydra and Roach have to switch tiers.Zerg has no Anti air Units in Early game .
Thy Shall Die Alone...or emm..something like that.
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
September 15 2010 12:50 GMT
#1755
I hope people don't over-react too much - we saw surprises, there were quite some in the qualification too, and in the Ro64. So, the GSL format is a bit risky and doesn't always pay off for players who can otherwise dominate a full league/pro-ladder. Fine, there will be 3 GSLs, hopefully to even out a little bit, and then more developed leagues are on the way too.

Bottom line: Strong players knocked out of a tournament (especially Bo3/Bo1-stages) are still strong. Eventually it will matter much more who can get a higher winning rate over time.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
September 15 2010 12:51 GMT
#1756
On September 15 2010 21:45 SKtheAnathema wrote:
there really should be no imba whining about idra's g2... he got JUKED hardbody. partially due to spying on lotze's bnet build orders. it's not like he didn't have an overlord in the protoss base, either. lotze SHOWED robo,then built a stargate. that was just amazing.

also have to give credit to lotze's forcefield and colossus micro in g3. all that intensity and pressure allowed him to overload idra's brain and get in that sneaky expansion. awesome set! wp'd by both.


That's one of the oldest tricks in the book. You shouldn't have high expectations out of IdrA when it comes to tournament play. :/
DminusTerran
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1337 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-15 13:00:16
September 15 2010 12:58 GMT
#1757
I really think hydra's need to be cheaper, maybe 75/50 or 75/25, and moved to tier 1. Roaches should be tier 2 start with range 4 and maybe have a hive upgrade that gives them [(1+ range 1+ armor) might be too good I dunno] or something so they have better late game potential.
amorpheus
Profile Joined May 2007
Bulgaria2144 Posts
September 15 2010 12:59 GMT
#1758
Overall satisfied with the quality of the games today, hopefully even better games tomorrow with cool and inca playing.
Shatter
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1401 Posts
September 15 2010 12:59 GMT
#1759
On September 15 2010 21:37 Qikz wrote:
Personally, I'm not sure why the zerg player kept trying to expand there. He knew as soon as there were a decent amount of reapers, he was going to die.

Why didn't he try and hold out in his main, rather than trying to chase the reapers away to expand?
Because the Terran would of had expo up before him. And that is pretty much game for Zerg unless he can do some miracle plays. He was pretty much committed to getting that hatch up asap because he got bunker rushed/delayed earlier.
teamsolid
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada3668 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-15 13:12:23
September 15 2010 13:00 GMT
#1760
IdrA losing was his own fault for not scouting that expo, but the ZvT G1 was just ridiculous. Terran loses entire army multiple times, his gold expo, 8 buildings, 2 thors. But oh wait, I have a planetary fortress surrounded by turrets lololol, I don't need any units to survive against all your mutas and ling. And then Z makes one mistake, because he had a huge advantage up to that point, so he thought he could take Maka's army which was heading towards Z's gold base (it's much easier to see that it was a mistake when you can see the whole map... as an obs). One momentary lapse in judgment and his mutas die in 3 seconds gg. G2.. let's not talk about reapers.
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